1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

DabblingInDrizzle-First RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by krokodil, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. krokodil

    krokodil

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Dabbling In Drizzle
    A First Attempt at Rain in the BW2 Meta


    First Look:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Fallen Comrades:
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Introduction:
    Weather has found itself to be one of the greatest force in the meta. To not run your own weather is to allow the opponent to freely run their own without contest. It is for this reason I almost always run weather in OU. I am usuually employing a more defensive play style using sand. For this reason I wanted to make a switch in both weather and play style. I wasn't comfortable switching to the hyper offensive nature of Sun, so I settled to switch to offensive rain. While rain has lost a dear comrade (Tornadus-T) to the abyss known as Ubers, rain offensive still finds itself to be terribly threatening and quite effective in higher levels of play.

    The Team:
    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Protect
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song

    When considering making a rain team, Politoed should be the first Pokemon that comes to mind. Drizzle is a fantastic ability, and otherwise Politoed is largely outclassed by almost every other bulky water. For this reason I went with the defensive set in order to take advantage of Politoed's utility moves rather than rely on its rather mediocre stats. Protect is used to scout choice pokemon, regain hp using leftovers, and stall toxic/burn/perish song turns. Scald is a useful STAB move that actually does a decent amount to threats in rain. More importantly it can burn threats or at least prevent switch ins who fear the burn. Toxic is to stall out threats that I find to be more difficult to take on without residual damage and often is a good move to use when the opponent is likely to switch. Perish Song is my best answer to Baton Pass teams, which I detest as they are neither fun to play nor to use and require a level of skill that I believe is lesser than most other teams. The 0 Att IVs are because I've no use of attack, it also lessens the amount of damage I take from Foul Play, a common move carried by Sableye and Umbreons. 32 Speed EVs outspeeds most standard Jellicent, this allows Politoed to dodge Taunt in time to get off a Toxic.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump

    Keldeo is a fantastic sweeper, it has a good speed and it's massive Rain Boosted STAB Hydro Pumps can do massive damage to even pokemon that resist it. Having Secret Sword gives it a second STAB and allows it to hit Pokemon with high SpD, like the fat pink blobs, on their lesser denfensive stat. This makes Keldeo a brilliant psuedo mixed attack. Surf gives it a more reliable STAB and since Keldeo's movepool is rather barren it doesn't sacrifice much in doing so. Hidden Power Ice allows me to kill the common Dragon type. Donning a Scarf makes Keldeo a great revenge killer, especially with rain in play.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 168 SDef / 252 HP / 88 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    Originally this spot was taken by Deo-D, as I regard it as one of the best hazard supporters for Offensive teams. Deo-D worked really well as a hazard supporter, most of the time ensuring that I would get at least 2 layers of spikes assuming he was fresh when I had brought him in. He also did a decent job of preventing hazards, as he was able to taunt most common hazard supporters. I found myself though requiring something with a bit more walling properties that could also still give me the Spikes to support my sweepers. Ferrothorn became the obvious choice, the mixed defensive stats and amazing defensive movepool made it an awesome fit on the team. Spikes is used for support. Gyro ball hits fast sweepers for massive damage. Power Whip hits Rotom-W, especially its SpD Set, hard. Leech Seed is Ferrothorn's only form of recovery outside of Leftovers, it helps it in its longevity.

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal

    I love trappers, they are OP. I really wish that is all I could say, however due to RMT rules I must say more. Dugtrio sets up the all important rocks and kills Tyranitar and Ninetails. Almost ensuring that I get my weather for the entire match. He couples well with my two U-turning pokemon and can even be used to perish trap in combination with Politoed. Dugtrio is a major bro. EQ for strong STAB. Stone Edge to miss all the time so I can bitch about hax... I mean flying types and levitate Pokemon. Reversal to garantee a dead TTar, and to hit massively when brought down to his sash. SR because SR are pretty much mandatory in competitive.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Agility

    Thundurus-T takes on Jellicent, who prior to its arrival was quite a pain in the ass for this team. He synergizes well, giving the team another electric immunity/resist. Unlike the previous Tornadus, Thundurus-T is capable of a mid game sweep as well as a late game. Thunder was chosen over Thunderbolt for the added power. With the support of Dugtrio it's reliability doesn't become an issue because it almost guarantees my rain in play. Hidden Power Ice is to achieve psuedo-BoltBeam coverage. Focus Blast hits those who resist the famed bolt beam coverage. Agility allows a monsterous speed boost, allowing it to outpace most everything important in the metagame and smack it down with a monstrous Thunder or one of it's previously mentioned coverage moves. Yache Berry was chosen over Life Orb so that he could hopefully avoid being decimated by Mamo's potent Ice Shard. The Ev's were also changed, as suggested by Alexander. The additional bulk allows for Thundurus-T to have an easier time setting up an agility while not risking being outpaced by anything relevant. Modest gives Thundurus-T more firepower, which is always appreciated.

    Replaced:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Tornadus (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    With Tornadus-T being banned Tornadus is no longer outclassed blah blah blah blah. While it's true that Tornadus-T was badass, and likely should be banned, rain didn't lose all too much. Tornadus finds itself more than capable. He envys his therian formes regenerator ability, but with envy comes wrath in the form of a devastating Hurricane. I found that the power of its Hurricane was sufficient enough to forgo both Life Orb and Choice Specs, and subscribe to a Choice Scarf set. It's blazing speed stat allows it to outspeed almost every pokemon in the tier, including Pokemon who posses the scarf as well. Hurricane is to hit everything but Steels and Electric types hard, though Dugtrio usually takes care of them, because he is a bro. Focus Blast is used for the Steels or Electric types that are somehow able to escape the grasps of the mighty Dugtrio. Hidden Power Ice is useful in revenge killing dragons with bulk and a 4x Ice weakness. U-Turn allows for increased momentum. Also Defiant was used over prankster because I don't use any non-attacking moves and I don't want it traced, also on rare occasions I get an attack boost, making U-Turn very powerful even with the next to nothing investment I put into it with a negative nature.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass


    Celebi takes care of a lot of counters/pain in the asses that my team had previously struggled with. Natural Cures means that Celebi isn't bothered by status, making him a great switch in on status moves. It's overall well rounded bulk lets it tank hits from Breloom, who prior to Celebi's arrival was something that could really threaten my team. Giga Drain gives it recovery and is a good move against Jellicent and Rotom-W, aka big pain in the asses. Recover keeps Celebi alive as the little fairy attempts to survive the constant bombardment of TechniLooms, Jellicents, Rotom-Ws, and other miscellaneous pests. Psychic is a nice STAB that works to actively threaten Breloom. Baton Pass gives Celebi a means to escape the ominous pursuits of Tyranitar and Scizor.

    Replaced:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Spd / 248 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    Now that Genosect is banned Scizor can go back to being everyone's favorite bug/steel type. Scizor is a Pokemon that almost always finds itself useful somehow. Bullet punch is great for checking a huge amount of metagame threats, Bullet Punch finds itself particularly useful with hazards in play, as even the bulkier Pokemon who generally scoff at Scizor's Bullet Punch do not share the same attitude towards it after hazards have racked up. Pursuit is useful in trapping weakened foes desperate to escape, or Starmie who attempts to rudely fling my hazards off the opponents field. U-Turn is powerful and great for momentum, it is particularly useful when the common heatran attempts to threaten Scizor, as Dugtrio once again can trap it. Superpower finds itself to be the lesser used move, but is useful when dealing with Steel Types, or the surprisingly defensively bulky Chansey.


    Concluding Thoughts:
    The team is very solid, most of my counters are fairly taken care of. With the changes made my team has gone from solid to very good. I feel I may lack a presence on the physical side, but that is the only issue that stands out to me. Thanks to the smogon community there aren't many threats that really stand out.

    Change Log:
    Show Hide

    Round 1:
    -Tornadus is removed
    -Agility Thundurus-T is added

    Round 2:
    -Choice Banded Scizor is removed
    -SpD Celebi is added
    -Thundurus-T has its IV spread changed, speed is sacrificed for additional bulk
    -Thundurus-T losers his Life Orb and receives a Yache Berry
    -Politoed loses its SpD investment, Defensive investment is reduced, Speed investment takes their place


    Current Importable:
    Show Hide

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed

    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Agility

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge
  2. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    686
    Hey there,

    Nice team you have there. It's quite solid and well built. Getting right into it, the threats you listed can be quite annoying, so I'll base my rate around those. As you said, Swords Dance Technician Breloom can completely wreck this team with an attack boost, and it sets up one after putting something to sleep. With that said, I recommend using a Life Orb Latias > Dugtrio. Latias is an excellent check to Breloom, tanking boosted Mach Punches and whatnot, and is an excellent Pokemon as a whole. Using Latias will also help with some of the other threats you listed, like Rotom-W or Hippowdon. While you lose a trapper in Dugtrio, Latias is still an excellent counter to Sun teams and electric types like Thundurus-T, when boosted can be quite the heavy hitter against this team. As a result of this, no Pokemon on this team has Stealth Rock. Consider using it over Power Whip on Ferrothorn, as it is the only Pokemon on this team that can learn it. To help with the minor Jellicent counter, consider making Tornadus a Choice Specs variant as opposed to Choice Scarf. A Choice Specs boosted Hurricane just wrecks everything. With a Choice Scarf, you're not really accomplishing much and there are much better Choice Scarf users out there. This segues into my last change, making your Keldeo into a Choice Scarf user. Keldeo, with its great Speed and Special Attack, makes an excellent revenge killer / cleaner. With Tornadus spamming hard hitting Hurricanes, Keldeo will be able to defeat the remains with Surfs / Secret Swords. If not Keldeo, Scizor can do the same. With those changes said, great team and good luck. Btw, welcome to Smogon. n_n

    Sets (open)

    Tornadus
    Choice Scarf --> Choice Specs

    Ferrothorn
    Power Whip --> Stealth Rock

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
  3. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Welcome to Smogon Krokodil!

    As you yourself have described, your team has a weak to Breloom and this can make some problems, so I thought of a way to solve this problem without upsetting your too your team, leaving the same style.

    I'm talking to insert SpecsGothitelle instead of Dugtrio, in this way, however, will keep the trapkiller team but will have an additional weapon to use against Breloom having regard to the resistance to its fighting priority, also be able to trap Hippowdown thanks to powerful GrassKnot 'cause Hippo is a very average Pokémon.
    The set I want to advise you to also insert the HP Fight for trapp and kill Tyranitar but also cause damage to Ferrothorn reduce the settinf of hazards on your field.
    As the last move is a must ThunderBolt.
    Thanks to this electric move will have the possibility of trap and kill Jellicent that is capable of stopping the sweep of your main walbreaker: Keldeo.

    As a final step, no longer having Dugtrio, you have to give the stealth rock to ferrothorn.

    Sorry if I did not write much in this rate, but your team seems quite solid, and in my modest opinion there is nothing else to say.

    Sets:
    Show Hide


    >Gothi over Dugtrio
    >StelthRock over Spikes on Ferro

    Gothitelle (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
  4. krokodil

    krokodil

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Show Hide
    Upon trying out this change I definitely saw that I had much less of an issue with Breloom and Jellicent. The main issue is that it isn't really able to trap Steels or Tyranitar as Dugtrio did. This has made it much more difficult for Tornadus to sweep. I would also like to make it known that Techniloom can effectively be taken care of with Tornadus, he just finds himself to be an issue if Tornadus has been weakened.
  5. Scherox23

    Scherox23

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    hello! also I'm new :). I suggest you make the keldeo lumbarry instead of leftovers, then you should also try to ferrothorn rocky helmet can be quite useful as a tool. then you do not need so much choice scarf tornadus! I suggest you try the choice specs! :) I hope to check out the state of help .. bye!
  6. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    Hey krokodil, very solid team here so the rate is going to be on the shorter side.

    The only real problem I can see with this team is the lack of a spinner since two of your Pokemon, Dugtrio and Tornadus, are really setback by the presence of stealth rocks. For this reason I suggest you switch your current Ferrothorn for a sub toxic Tentacruel. This set does not only provide you with a reliable spinner but also a reliable way to remove opposing Jellicent. Most Jellicent run enough speed to creep on uninvested base 70's such as your Politoed, allowing them to taunt you before you can toxic, but you won't run into this problem with Tentacruel. Additionally, you do not lose much bulk with this change thanks to Tenta's reliable recovery through lefties/ rain dish. The Ev's also let you outspeed base 80's like Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Gyarados so you can cripple them before they take you out/ set up. This change is somewhat redundant with your current Politoed set though so I would suggest making him a Choice Specs variant to keep up offensive pressure on your team. With max speed and a timid nature you can also speed tie jolly breloom and ko with ice beam for some surprise factor. However, you could just change toxic to ice beam and keep your current set if you like it that way.

    Well that's it! Hope I helped and good luck with the team! Here are the sets:
    Show Hide
    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Timid nature
    252 hp/ 240 def/ 16 speed
    Substitute
    Toxic
    Scald
    Rapid spin

    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Timid nature
    252 sp att/ 252 speed/ 4 def
    Hydro pump
    Ice beam
    Hp grass
    Focus blast
  7. krokodil

    krokodil

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    I am now considering changing Substitute on Keldeo to Hidden Power Ghost and Leftovers to Lum Berry. This would allow Keldeo to get 2 Calm Minds off if the opponent used Jellicent. It would also allow me to kill Jellicent without the need for support, making Keldeo a more effective wall breaker. It would also mean that I could switch in onto Breloom if I were to predict a Spore/Swords Dance/Mach Punch and get a large amount of damage off on it before Keldeo died, ensuring that the other members of my team would easily be able to K0 it. That or keeping the SubKeldeo set and changing Tornadus (though I do love it) for either scarfed or agility Thudurus-T so ensure some of my threats are more easily killed off. I would like to hear the thoughts of others on this plausible change.
  8. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Hey!

    This is not a bad team so good job for have built it. However, Breloom, Jellicent and Rotom-W, as you already said, are all troublesome for your team; Breloom after a Sword Dance smash completely you, Jellicent walls without any problem Keldeo, Dugtrio and Scizor and Rotom-W can beat easily Politoed, Dugtrio and Scizor and it's a little problematic for Thundurus-T and Keldeo too and it can also burn Ferrothorn with Will-O-Wisp, which is not good obviously. Therefore, I suggest you to use Celebi instead of Scizor, which seems the most useless member of your team, otherwise Celebi gives you a solid counter for Jellicent, Rotom-W and Breloom so it would work fine on your team. I'd use an EV spread of 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe, with a moveset of Giga Drain, Recover, Perish Song and Baton Pass, with Calm nature and with Leftovers of course. I'd use Baton Pass because it allows to avoid Scizor and Tyranitar's Pursuit, which is always useful since they both are a common teammate of Rotom-W nowadays.

    Second, I see that your team lacks a revenge-killer and it's in general quite slow, revenge-killers allow to deal threats such as Dragonite, Salamence, Tornadus, Volcarona and so on more easily, also fast Pokèmon are always useful during a battle, therefore I suggest you to change Keldeo's set in a Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf Keldeo is a really great revenge-killer thanks to its offensive statistics, its speed, its coverage moves and its resistance to Stealth Rock, for all those reasons it should work on your team. However, I'd use a standard EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, with a moveset of Hydro Pump, Surf, Secret Sword and Hidden Power Ice, with Timid nature and with Choice Scarf of course.

    As last thing, you should try this EV spread on Thundurus-T: 156 HP / 252 SAtk / 100 Spd, with a Modest nature. This EV spread allows Thundurus-T to outspeed all the relevant after an Agility and to have at the same time more staying power, which is useful to setup more easily for example. You can try Yache Berry instead of Life Orb too because it allows Thundurus-T to avoid the revenge-kill of Mamoswine, which can be quite troublesome for your team since you haven't solid switch into it, these are only ideas anyway, so try them and see if they work in your battles.

    Before I go, you should also try more EVs on Speed on Politoed to outspeed some fast version of Jellicent and to Toxic them before they Taunt you, if you Toxic Jellicent, Keldeo can sweep opponent's team more easily and Ferrothorn can put more entry hazards so it's fine in my opinion; 32 EVs on Speed are enough to outspeed any version of Jellicent in the current BW OU metagame anyway.

    Good luck!
  9. krokodil

    krokodil

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Alexander, I really like the suggestions that you put in place. I fear I lose my physical presence in doing so. I switched out Perish Song on Celebi for Psychic so Celebi can threaten Breloom directly, I am currently debating employing Psyshock instead to increase my physical presence. I am just afraid to be walled by fat pink blobs.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)