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.dancin [Peaked #1]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Windsong, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    978
    .intro
    Hey all, it's Windsong here with my first OU RMT of this generation. The reason for my complete lack of OU teams throughout the entirety is simply because, with the nature of BW OU, I feel that it's pretty much impossible to build a team that effectively covers all the common threats in the metagame effectively and I just haven't really built much worth writing on. However, this team was a spark of inspiration that started as more of a joke than anything else. I was sitting with my SPL team in #scooters a couple days ago when HSA jokingly made some comment about how I should use Vulpix on the OU Suspect ladder. I threw together a half assed sun offense team with Vulpix, which did pretty terribly. After noting that the entire ladder was basically composed of Rain offense/balance using Keldeo, weatherless dragonspam, and bulky Sand with either Tyranitar or Hippowdon. Heavy offense was much less prolific with Deoxys-D gone from the metagame (which is a definite plus, in my opinion) and offensive Rain, offensive Sun, and pretty much any sort of stall was nonexistent on the ladder. Anyways, after noting the fact that all these teams basically died to any sort of stall core that could beat out a few key components (notably Keldeo, the Dragons, Landorus, and Terrakion) I put together a basic Sunstall core, similar to what Stunt ran late BW1. Rather amusingly, it worked very effectively (I was still using Vulpix at this point) and I eventually developed it into a more serious team. It was incredibly effective in getting me voting reqs easily during this suspect round, while also peaking #1 at around 2400 ACRE at the end of the round as .dancin man.

    Anyways, before anyone can properly rate the team, there are a few very significant things that need to be understood. First and foremost, it's not a perfect stall team capable of countering everything in the meta. Such is simply the nature of Sunstall, as it's more quickstall than any sort of fullstall build. Secondly, the team doesn't play particularly the same as fullstall plays. A lot more emphasis is on eliminating threats to allow for a member of the defensive core to successfully wall the remainder of the opponent's team, and rather than stacking hazard layers and such on free turns, the team focuses heavily on gaining momentum to allow for Dugtrio plays to eliminate Heatran, Tyranitar, and Terrakion. As such, the team isn't really for everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to any dedicated stall player, nor to anyone attempting to learn the game for the first time. You need to be analyzing risk the reward of your actions on literally every turn if you want to make the necessary aggressive plays to beat Sand and Rain teams, but when played effectively, it absolutely will beat them in every scenario simply because it matches up so perfectly against them. And when team matchup is nearly everything in BW, having a team that matches up perfectly against the most common playstyles is exactly the recipe for success.


    .team

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ~​



    [​IMG]
    .blazin**Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 152 SDef / 248 HP / 108 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect

    Ninetales set up the good old sun that is basically the one key factor in allowing me to beat other weather teams, while also letting Cresselia wall the living crap out of pretty much everything. Other than that, unlike on offensive Sun, Ninetales actually plays a semi important role on this team beyond setting up weather, oftentimes being my primary switch-in to bulky Calm Mind Latias, some Celebi, and various bulky Steel- and Grass-types that would otherwise be a pain for the team to handle. Ninetales is also insurance against Volcarona on the off chance that I ever run into an offensive sun team. Ninetales will pretty much always outlast opposing weather starters, because offensive starters such as Specs Politoed and Band Tyranitar are either outlasted by Ninetales since I get hazards down while spinning theirs, or can't risk staying in more than a single turn lest they get trapped by Dugtrio. This also lets me play more aggressively with Ninetales, spreading Wisps around as other weather starters have to pivot in and out to avoid being trapped.

    My set is naturally defensively geared, but I invest enough Speed to outrun and KO Adamant Breloom, one of the few common Pokemon that is capable of dealing significant amounts of damage to the team if left unchecked, as access to a free Spore is already mildly problematic for the team. I also outrun standard Rocks Landorus-T so I can burn it before it either sets up Rocks or Earthquakes, the former meaning I can proceed to net a 2HKO with Flamethrower while the latter allows me to immediately switch to Forretress after I live the Earthquake and begin setting my hazards up. Roar basically serves as insurance against greedy Dragonite players, SubCM Latias players, and Substitute + Earth Power Heatran. Protect is absurdly good in the metagame right now, and the ability to scout the move being used by Choiced Terrakion, Latios, Keldeo, and Thunderus is really a godsend for the team.


    [​IMG]
    .partyhard**Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    Forretress has a couple main jobs on the team. First and foremost, it spins away opposing hazards. Having to play games with Rocks, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes up on my side of the field can be extremely difficult for this team, as many of the more defensive Pokemon won't be able to as effectively handle various threats. The second major reason why Forretress fits onto the team is the fact that it is a physically bulky Steel-type. Having a Dragon resist is incredibly important for literally any team in the OU metagame right now, and Forretress fits very nicely into the role. The third major reason why Forretress is an ideal fit for the team is surprisingly not Spikes, but Volt Switch. In tandem with Dugtrio, Volt Switch Forretress lures in a number of threats that are then trapped and easily taken care of. Spikes are, of course, helpful to the team, however, having a defensive Steel-type with both Rapid Spin and Volt Switch is far more important to the success of the team. Forry also serves as a last ditch check against a number of threats if I can keep Sturdy intact, which is always helpful.

    I opt with a physically defensive spread of course, because specially defensive Forretress is awful this generation and the physical bulk is incredible in Spinning against many common hazard setters in the OU metagame. I don't really need anything else, just the straight and simple physical bulk.


    [​IMG]
    .dancin**Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 8 SDef / 248 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Moonlight
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Toxic

    Cresselia is a really bloody ridiculous Pokemon right now. She counters basically every significant threat in the metagame with sun up, including the (in my opinion) basically broken Kyurem-B and Landorus-I, two of the most dangerous threats in the metagame right now. Pretty much every physically offensive Dragon-type in OU is also checked effectively by Cresselia, and there have been literally dozens of games where it's simply possible to trap the opponent's weather starter and then just sit on Cresselia the entire game and win. Cressy in tandem with Forretress and Jellicent walls pretty much every physically offensive threat in the metagame right now, single handedly beating Sand offense once I've eliminated their Tyranitar. Cressy's just gonna sit there dancing around everything and smacking offense like no tomorrow, since offense teams nowadays simply don't run anything capable of beating the duck.

    My moveset is undoubtably a little bit weird, packing no STAB option but rather Hidden Power Fire and Ice Beam. While Psyshock is undoubtably an excellent move and could/should probably be used over Hidden Power Fire, being able to hit Scizor, Scarf Rachi, Ferrothorn, and opposing Forretress for excellent damage is simply too good to pass up. Toxic is necessary for handling the Lati@s twins, especially the Life Orb Recover sets, which can be devastating for the team, and obviously Ice Beam hits all the Dragons for solid damage. Hitting Landorus as well is another very nice plus. I opt for maximum physical Defense, simply because I need it in order to effectively take on Salamence, Garchomp, Cube, and Dragonite. Cresselia still has absurd special bulk, and easily beats out even powerful special attackers such as Life Orb Latias without much trouble.


    [​IMG]
    .wavin**Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover

    Jellicent is a really odd choice for any Sun team, but its ability to beat out pretty much any rain team I play is too good to pass up. Countering core Rain Pokemon such as Keldeo, Politoed, and Starmie make it more valuable than another spinblocker, such as Sableye would be in this slot. Jellicent also puts a lot of pressure on more defensive Sand teams, as it can thoroughly wall significant portions of those teams while also spreading burns around to opposing weather starters and strong physical hitters. However, Jellicent's most important role on the team is switching in on powerful Water-type moves when Rain is up, as well as being one of the most effective switch-ins to any Scald user in the OU tier. Many teams simply do horribly against Jellicent, due to lack of preparation for its unique typing and very solid bulk.

    As much as I hate to do it, given that I consider it one of the best moves of this generation, I have to foresake Scald on Jellicent in favor of Shadow Ball, simply because I actually want to be able to hit things for decent damage with Sun up. Shadow Ball also hits significantly harder than Scald versus the Lati@s twins and Starmie, Pokemon that Jellicent is occasionally switching in against throughout the match. I opt for a physically defensive EVspread precisely to handle the previously mentioned mons, as Starmie usually opts for Psyshock over any Electric move in this metagame while the Lati@s twins prefer to Psyshock Jellicent rather than burning a Draco Meteor on what could easily be a specially defensive Jellicent that would simply heal off the damage. I run enough Speed to outpace 4 Speed base 70s, most notably Politoed, and get the Taunt or Wisp off before they can net an attack on me.


    [​IMG]
    .cry**Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    IVs: 21 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    Dugtrio is one of the best Pokemon in the OU metagame right now, and basically forever as long as weather teams still hold dominance over the majority of the metagame. Trapping and killing Tyranitar and weakened Politoed makes Dugtrio an incredibly valuable asset to the team, but it has a lot of significance beyond that as well. In fact, Dugtrio is arguably the sole reason that the team functions as well as it does, as if there's ever a sweeper that is troubling my team, it is simply a matter of pivoting to Dugtrio and removing it from the game quickly enough. Notable threats that Dugtrio can trap easily are Heatran, Kyurem-B, and Terrakion. Dugtrio also is useful in trapping and killing basically any weakened Pokemon. Aggressive double-switches allow me to easily trap opposing grounded Spinblockers and Chansey, which can be necessary plays for the team to work. Against opposing Sun teams, in the rare chance that I ever encounter them, I can trap their own Dugtrio with my Dugtrio and then proceed to wall out the remainder of their team with no trouble whatsoever.

    I opt for max Attack and Speed on Dugtrio, of course, with a Jolly nature so as to outpace Scarf Tyranitar, with nothing invested in Defenses for the sake of Reversal, and 21 HP IVs so as to make sure that two Seismic Tosses get Duggy down to 1 HP for maximum Reversal damage. While either Sucker Punch or Sunny Day is generally the best option in the last moveslot on more offensive Sun teams, having Sunny day in the last moveslot would be useless for me as if Ninetales has fainted before an opposing weather starter comes out, I've already lost the game, and Sucker Punch simply doesn't help me check any notable threats. Stone Edge, on the other hand, lets Dugtrio check Nasty Plot Thunderus-T, a major threat for the team, and one that I can use Dugtrio's useful Electric resistance to play around and make sure it doesn't damage my core unduly. Overall, Dugtrio is quite possibly the single most important member of the team.


    [​IMG]
    .endin**Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Protect
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    The last teamslot of this team is pretty flexible, but after quite a bit of testing it seemed to me that Heatran was the most effective option for it. Specially Defensive Heatran can beat out the majority of powerful Special Attackers in the tier when the Sun's up, such as the Lati@s twins and even powerful Water-types such as Rotom-W and Starmie. Heatran's main roles on the team are as a secondary Steel-type to take Outrages and Draco Meteors, and a nifty counter against uncommon stallbreakers such as Mew that would otherwise floor the team in the rare moments in which I encounter them. Heatran is also really anti metagame now, and is given plenty of free turns against most weatherless teams that struggle to get around it.

    Heatran's moveset is pretty much non-negotiable. Protect is, as mentioned when discussing Ninetales, an absurdly good move in this metagame. Heatran is also surprisingly durable because of it, essentially netting an extra 6.5% from Leftovers every time I use it, which is easily enough to make or break some games. Toxic and Roar together let me beat out pretty much all Calm Mind Latias, which is very nifty as it's a really problematic Pokemon for the team to handle if it gets going, and landing the occasional Toxic on a Garchomp or Hippowdon is always nice. Finally, Flamethrower in the Sun hits like a truck, even off no investment being able to beat through even Pokemon that resist it, such as Rotom-W without trouble.


    ~

    .endin
    This was a really fun team to build and was one of the most successful OU teams that I've ever played with. It's incredible anti metagame right now, and basically demolishes every standard team template existing right now. However, I couldn't have made this team on my own. Ojama, Lavos Spawn, HSA, and Jayde were all really helpful in helping me build and test this team, and it'd be a travesty not to mention tab. Not because I asked him for help in #RMT once or twice but because Teddiursa is almost as cute as Vulpix. And of course, I couldn't forget that I gotta give a big thank you to Sogeking for starting the trend that will carry on with Smogon for quite some time. Oh, and McMeghan deserves definite creds for having a MUCH sexier voice than Ginku. TFC also needs a shoutout here, both for being the coolest of all westbros and because talking with him was basically the only thing keeping me sane while laddering down to 55 deviation. #TimeForChange. With all that being said, it's time to say bye.

    .fin

    import (open)
    .blazin (Ninetales) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 152 SDef / 248 HP / 108 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect

    .partyhard (Forretress) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    .dancin (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 8 SDef / 252 HP / 248 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Moonlight
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Toxic

    .wavin (Jellicent) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover

    .cry (Dugtrio) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    .endin (Heatran) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk
    - Protect
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    zak keeble and Nails like this.
  2. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    cool team, BU conkeldurr and reuniclus seem to be big threats, a psychic move on cresselia helps out with the former, although i guess that conkeldurr can be toxic stalled with some prediction. Giving jellicent more spdef and cursed body should help with cm reuniclus also although its still a long shot. NP thundurus and NP celebi with earth power also can potentially sweep you. Latias would provide a great check to all 4 of these threats although i cant really see where it would fit in on the team. Alakazam also seems potentially troublesome as does a last mon sub cm latias. the common theme seems to be powerful special attackers. maybe like spdef celebi with perish song > jellicent although you lose a spinblocker and are weaker to fast SD scizor. I guess a team like this is always going to have to sacrifice being weak to certain threats for a good matchup vs the metagame.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    8,580
    Solid team, Windsong - I remember facing this team with Dtail Kyurem-Black over Heatran. You're absolutely right about Cresselia + Jellicent; they are both underrated threats of current metagame. Cresselia particularly wall the entire metagame barring a handful of threats (Volcarona, TTar, and Kyurem) by itself, while Jellicent is one of the most consistent spinblockers that gives a finger to all the defensive Starmie as of late.

    You have offensive threats well-covered. Stall is most likely the most difficult match-up for this team, especially ones that pack a reliable spinblocker to prevent Forretress's Rapid Spin. Versus Rain stall, you may find yourself losing to the war of attrition, since Toxic Tentacruel can outlast Jellicent and eventually get the spin off. You do have Dugtrio to trap and kill at ~65%, so it would be quite a guessing game. Regardless, though, your team would be unable to spin away hazards of an opposing stall team.

    There are couple of approaches in strengthening your match-up versus stall. One is utilizing Magic Bounce users like Xatu and Espeon to delay hazards from going up in the first place. Both Magic Bouncers also lure in Tyrantiar, which may come in handy for luring it into Dugtrio's Arena Trap. Xatu's a particularly good fit to this team, since that's essentially a hard counter to Breloom.

    Another option is packing a Pursuit user to eliminate ghosts. Forretress can Volt Switch to a predicted ghost switch-in into the like of Tyranitar or Weavile. I understand that Tyranitar would summon Sand, but it's not like this team is terribly dependent on Sun (other than Cress's Moonlight recovery ;x). Another option is Specs Gothitelle to trap and kill defensive Ghost-types with Tbolt.

    Props for being original - it was refreshing to read about your team ;)

    @ Razza: Windsong has Cresselia that can wear down Conkeldurr fast; not many Conkeldurr runs Payback nowadays. Jellicent's Taunt and Shadow Ball also says gg to CM Reuniclus.
  4. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    373
    Cool team Windsong, and like all sun teams, this sun stall should be prepared for the tar + lando combo. it is true that after tar traps cress you win the weather war, but then landorus sweeps the entire team seeing as it will ohko/2hko everything else before getting killed. Sub toxic gliscor gets a sub on forre/dug/tran and proceeds to terrorize the team's walls one at a time. i would recommend reflect on cresselia to reliably switch out of tar and continue to wall landorus. Maybe even hp ice on forre to deal w lando/scor in general.
    Here's a gimmicky set of cress that I've seen my buddy C&E use to great success, it always cripples one of my mons and it's the restalk psycho shift + one attack set. It may or may not work on this team but i thought it could be cool to test out. Other than the aforementioned threats, the team is solid vs sand and rain barring those hippo jelly teams and rain thundyT, but i'm sure you can play around them.
    Grats on peak ;]
  5. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Messages:
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    I don't see how you can afford to not have Reflect on Cresselia. Terrakion, Tyranitar, and dragons are just so much easier to handle if you have it, where as toxic is really only good against pokemon that are by and large beaten by Heatran or Jellicient (or Ninetales).
  6. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    369
    HP Ice > Gyro ball on forry would deal with gliscor better, plus you can afford to run a -attack nature rather than -speed.

    Lava Plume > Flamethrower on heatran. I Know double status might seem to play against you, but Burn is better than toxic on things that don't stay in very long, and also deals with physical attackers + Poison immunities, like tentacruel. Toxic still hits the things LP can't like Volcarona.

    Honestly I'd drop Toxic on Cress for reflect, it gives your team that edge against sand, and you can't afford to stay in to toxic Ttar without reflect up, crunch from banded will do a butt-tonne and it will be your only answer to RP/SF lando, you need to keep it alive.
  7. ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

    ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    Hey man, hope youre going well, this is an excellent RMT, so props on that.
    The AlmightyImmortalGodScarlequin does have a number of minor changes to suggest though:

    First of all I advocate changing Stone Edge on Dugtrio to Memento, yes Stone Edge can deal with Thundurus, Volcarona and DDing Dragons, but its unreliable with that accuracy, and Memento helps neutralise all of these threats as well as the aforementioned by other users CM Reuniclus and BU Conkeldurr. Its a catch all for Pokemon that Dugtrio doesnt have the power to deal with ie. Calm Minding Latis, Bulk Up Conkeldurr, Bulk Up Loom and many more. I know you have checks to them but this provides a last resort if your checks are already down, and also can force a switch, obviously beneficial in a hazard stacking team.

    I also recommend Sunny Day on Ninetales over Protect, so you are able to stay in versus Defensive Politoed and most likely force them out having removed your water weakness, also when you predict the Politoed switch in, again to force them out and rack up Hazard damage.

    Cresselia, arguably your MVP, from its significant walling capabilities on the OU meta could do with a moveset change in my opinion. Its been putting in serious work in the matches Ive played with this team, but none of it due to Toxic. I havent used it once, therefore Im advocating either Calm Mind or Reflect over Toxic. Calm Mind would turn you into a near unbreakable mixed wall barring Toxic, Perish Song and Phazing and also increase your Sp Attack to respectable levels since its a struggle to take out Pokemon with reliable recovery with the current set. Reflect as previously mentioned by users Myzozoa and Nysyr would seriously improve your time against Physical Dragons, TTar and Terakion amonst others.

    At first I wasnt a fan of Nysyr's suggestion of HP Ice on Forry over Gyro Ball but thinking about it, its kinda necessary because you have no outs to Sub Toxic Protect EQ Gliscor and an even half decent player will 6-0 you with it. This does mean youre putting more faith in Cresselia and Dugtrio to deal with Terrakion and Mamoswine but I think the trade off is worth it.

    Last of all if you were considering any other team members (difficult because I dont know who you would replace), Sub Seed Venusaur seems to fit really well on this team, giving you an extra Water resist, a Fighting Resist and a Lightning resist and the ability to insta absorb Toxic Spikes. It gives your team Leech Seed recovery along with your Leftovers and can both cause a lot of switches and give Politoed and Hippowdon in particular terrible predicaments, to help you win the weather war. Im not good with EV spreads but a set of Giga Drain, Sub, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder/HP Fire could be beneficial, its your decision. Also gives you a straight up answer to Gastrodon, Keldeo and Jellicent amongst others without having to arduously inconsistently try to status them and gradually wear them down.

    Was going to write an entire piece about a Magic Bouncer but realised how scrubby it sounded and irrelevant to the team.

    Anyways dude, props from the Almighty Eternal All Conquering Immortal God of the Pathetic Slave Whore Scrubs, Scarlequin, on a fantastic RMT and I hope these suggestions were helpful,
    ~Scarlequin the Immortal God
  8. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    cm reuniclus wins vs jellicent

    +1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 169-199 (41.93 - 49.37%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    0 SpA Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 116-138 (27.35 - 32.54%) -- possible 4HKO

    reuniclus comes in on forretress or dugtrio cm's on the switch, jellicent is pretty much forced to taunt as reuniclus uses psychic, jellicent is now 2hkoed by psychic whilst only being able to muster a 4hko max with shadow ball, once taunt ends the reuniclus user gains the upper hand as well as jellicent has to decide whether to taunt or not, and if they mispredict they lose.
  9. Jayde

    Jayde ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    wat a joke use sableye

    cool team, sun stall is really underrated and beats most of the meta, cress is amazing, luvdisc. balloon heatran is troublesome, but if you're careful with your jelli you should be fine. thanks for shout ;)
  10. SoulWind

    SoulWind
    is a Tiering Contributoris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    1,423
    yea if it was like someone uses cm reuniclus and conkeldurr nowadays.... oh wait no one does.

    reuniclus is stalled out by jellicent, roared by ninetales and heatran, wasting its pp quickly, not even to mention Cresselia doesn't give a fuck at it.
    this is an excellent team windsong, you pretty much covered nearly all the troublesome pokemon with it. I think I battled you twice and lost both games haha.

    like you probably acknowledge this team has trouble with landorus-i, one of the most feared sweepers right now in the metagame, but it honestly only sweeps you if random things happen like cresselia been trapped or something... so I wouldn't worry that much. outside of that, terrakion swords dance with salac berry could be a problem if cress puts it in salac berry range, so it would be 2hko'd and then pretty much cleaning the others, again only problematic if forry and duggy are weakened and can't set up on anything really. thundurus-t np if it grabs to get a boost pretty much puts you in a hard position, but again I don't see changing it without changing team's sinergy so I really don't know what to suggest here, haha.

    only things I would improve is using Reflect over Toxic in Cress like another users said so you can take outrages better and it's great for team support and using Hidden Power Ice on Forry that not only helps you vs SubToxic Forry that also helps vs Landorus-T which can be a bit troublesome to your team.

    great team man and luvdisc'd, hope you liked my rate =)
  11. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Hey Windsong!

    Really solid team you have here! Sun Stall is such an underrated play style, and you really have a team that answers most of the threats in the metagame.

    As others have mentioned, you really have an issue with Sub Toxic Gliscor, since nothing on your team can safely switch into it and the only thing that can do so, being Forretress, loses to Glisc 1 v 1. As others have mentioned, changing Gyro Ball --> HP Ice alleviates that weakness, however, you lose a reliable method of hitting Mamoswine or Kyu-B for a considerable amount of damage, which I think the rest of your team could still handle with smart switches. You could also throw SR on Heatran and swap SR on Forry with HP Ice, but the choice is yours.

    Next, I see a wee bit of a weakness to the combination of CB Tar and RP Landorus, but not really sure what you can do about that without completely disrupting the synergy of the team. I guess just playing Cress smartly, which I'm sure you do, is your best option.

    Offensive Volcarona looks like it could be a bit annoying as well, since you don't really have a reliable answer other than Roaring it out, and when combined with something like Xatu or Espeon, it could be very annoying to handle. Once again, not really sure how to fix that without disrupting the synergy of your team.

    Cool team though, Luvdisc'd :]
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Volcarona does seem like a weakness in theory, but if you think about it, Windsong can ensure SR to go up with Dugtrio by trapping something other than a Rapid Spinner / Magic Bouncer, and then Jellicent would practically guarantee the Rocks to stay there. So now Volcarona will be coming in each time at 50% max health. Combine that with Taunt from Jellicent, Toxic from Cresselia, and Roar from Ninetales, and Volcarona may be hard pressed to really get going. I do admit that Forretress is set up bait, though, so Windsong would have to play extra careful with it, volt switching often.
  13. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

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    Hi Windsong.
    It is a very interesting team, and I appreciate much cresselia in your team, it is a very good physical stall very underrated, but I see several weaknesses, including against Reuniclus CM Bulky, after a Calm mind you can't do anything against him because even with the Sun Ninetales can not 2HKO/3HKO him with Flamethrower and he's a stall, Heatran also then it is 2HKO by Focus Blast of Reuniclus after a Calm mind, I noticed that you have Jellicent@Taunt+Shadow Ball, but this is not enough to kill Reuniclus, it can be placed anywhere on your team, you has no pokemon forcing him to switch , and after a calm mind you can't kill it with Jellicent, even with Taunt, because Jellicent is 3HKO by Psyshock, so when Jellicent will be forced to use Recover the opponent can anticipate and use Calm mind or it can also anticipate taunt and use psyshock, you'll be very disadvantaged, then Reuniclus is 4HKO by Shadow ball after a Calm mind (0 SpA Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 116-138 (27.35 - 32.54%) -- possible 4HKO) 5HKO with Leftovers, I suggest you Sableye on Jellicent, Sableye is a very good pokemon for your team, it can come easily on Reuniclus because with his double type (Ghost + Dark) it is immune against Focus Blast and Psyshock/Psychic and sableye is stronger than Jellicent in the metagame, because it can use Will-O-Wisp against Tyranitar and Scizor (pursuit) with his ability (Prankster).

    Now your team is disadvantage against the Rain teams, because you have nothing for tank Hydropump/Surf properly, then even with Jellicent you was disadvantaged because it can take a toxic of politoed easily or even a spinner as Tentacruel because your team is a Stall then it is necessary to keep the Entry Hazards on the ground, then you have nothing to Tank the Volt Switches of Rotom-W, Ninetales cannot resist properly and it doesn't have move to heal, Heatran also and it can take a Hydropump, (you can tell me that you have the Sun, but there are other Weathers team also), and Cresselia can take a Will-O-Wisp or the opponent can force you to switch with a counter as Scizor-Jirachi-Tyranitar, but I think you should take a pokemon who enjoys the Sun, I suggest you put Venusaure bulky on Heatran, Venusaure is "THE" pokemon for your team, it fills lot of weaknesses (Rain teams-Keldeo-Rotom-W) with Synthesis or Leech seed, you can take the move more useful after several tests if you want, then you can use Venusaure as a Revenge Killer because generally the Stalls are very weak against the big sweeps as Thundurus-T/Garchomp...It is like your Choice Scarf, and to tank Outrage you possess Foretress + Cresselia, and you possess Dugtrio to kill the others Fire type, so Heatran is a bit useless.

    Finally I see a small weakness against Gliscor SubToxic, because even with Cresselia, he is a big problem, it can be placed on your team easily, Cresselia is going to take a toxic and will die with Protect + Substitute spamm, and Forretress can do nothing with Gyroball, Sableye cannot not touch him with Toxic Orb and you can not come directly with Sableye because you can take a Toxic, so you are obliged to let a pokemon die, and Venusaure is Stall and cannot kill Gliscor easily, I suggest you swap Volt Switch with Hidden power Ice on Forretress, now you can come easily to Gliscor, then it is 2HKO by Hidden Power Ice.

    Sableye (open)
    Sableye (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Foul Play
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover


    Venusaur (open)
    Venusaur (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Leech Seed/Synthesis
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect/Sleep powder
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Jellicent--->Sableye
    Heatran--->Venusaur
    Forretress--->Hidden Power Ice


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.

    ~Leftiez
  14. TransparentOpacity

    TransparentOpacity

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    Scarlequin please don't type in all bold it hurts my eyes.

    Anyways, I feel like an opposing Heatran would be entirely immune to your team once Dugtrio is gone. I would find a spot on Ninetales for HP ground or maybe fighting.
  15. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Hey there Windsong,

    So this is pretty much one of the more solid teams in the metagame at the moment, and is weak to very few popular threats. Like others have said, SubToxic Gliscor is a major pain for you to face. Firstly, I would suggest running HP Ice > Gyro Ball on Forretress, since this essentially gives you a "counter" to Gliscor and a very reliable switch. Now, you seem very reliant on Dugtrio to beat Heatran so naturally an Air Balloon variant looks troublesome. To help with this I would simply use HP Ice/Fighting > Protect on Ninetales. This gives you another Pokemon to break Heatran's balloon (not to mention one that Heatran commonly comes in on), making the threat much more manageable.

    Another major threat to this team that I see is Swords Dance Garchomp, primarily Fire Fang variants. It can really do a lot of damage to your team, and sadly there is no real way to counter it without changing your team drastically. Your best bet seems to be playing smartly with Cresselia. To help with this I would run Reflect > Toxic on Cresselia to ease the strain on you. I understand the use of Toxic but the utility of Reflect seems to be much more useful. Anyways, cool team bud and gl.
  16. Chompx29

    Chompx29

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    Very strong looking team, I am quite the fan of sun-stallish teams, they are very underrated. I made a sun-stall that hit #8 myself not too long ago (tho it was more defensive than is yours).

    I can see spinning being an issue in longer games against more tanky/wall breaking capable teams. Forretress as a rule is not an extremely rely spinner for very defensive teams as it lacks reliable recovery and can be insta-nuked to strudy if you predict wrong. This is not to say that Forretress cannot work, on the contrary he is possibly the strongest option for an early-mid game spinner, but like i said i can see problems against things like rain stall which is starting to become increasingly popular or really bulky sand teams which in the same way are becoming popular.

    Very nice looking team and good job hitting #1.
  17. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    this team is very strong indeed, even achieving a scenario in which it had a 20% chance to beat me! however you seem very weak to certain niche sets such as mix mence with fblast/eq/toxic, and mixed ttar @ shed shell. unfortunately such weaknesses are the fatal flaws of sun stall. actually pretty much anything with toxic plus a ground or water attack is very threatening to you...that is a weakness i would definitely think you need to resolve. common pokemon such as defensive politoed can run all over you with such simple combinations. a quick, but imperfect, fix would be to run 96 speed evs on jellicent instead of your current value, as then you will always outspeed defensive politoed unless it's speed creeping hardcore. other than the few threats listed above, the team is quite strong indeed. excellent job, windong.

    also i'm pretty sure .wavin and .endin are not the words of a true brasilian, you might consider fixing your blasphemy before sogeking finds you out..
  18. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Went through everything, thanks for all the rates guys! Gonna go HP Ice > Gyro on Forry and Reflect > Toxic on Cressy to handle Glis, Chomper, CBTar + Lando, and Conkeldurr a bit better. I'll probably mess around with options for Ninetales' fourth moveslot, although HP Ice seems like the best option right now. Thanks for all the comments and luvdiscs guys!

    On the whole CM Reuni issue: I'm not willing to go with the route of Sableye + Venusaur > Jelli + Tran and end up significantly weaker against more common threats such as the Lati@s twins in exchange for beating CM Reuni which is borderline nonexistent right now.
  19. LizardMan

    LizardMan Useless piano playing pair of boobs
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    Hi Windsong. This is an awesome team and I personally used a similar team in the past to great success in the past. Use 252HP on Cresselia though because a 444 HP stat is not residual weak to Stealth Rock or Toxic.

    248HP / 8 SpDef doesn't allow you to survive anything else in particular either. Same with Heatran, run 252HP / 248 SpDef. You aren't residual weak to SR, spikes, or anything of the sort.

    Heatran's HP stat is lower than his SpDef, and putting the point into HP gives you the best all around bulk from both sides. You take very slightly more from special attacks, but barely anything. (useful for taking an Outrage in a pinch.)

    I'd also consider running some amount of SpDef EV's on Forretress to help you set up water pokemon in the sun, or Latias without a fire move but that is a preference I guess. I like sun stall, cool team again.

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