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Dante's Homunculi

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Derpinator, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Introduction [​IMG]

    I had been fiddling around with many teams after my clan war on another server, experimenting with a completely defensive design, a Trick Room design and, most recently, SmashPass. All of these teams had limited success, being successful but having clear and obvious flaws. When I looked into why these flaws existed, I found that any team that relied on another Pokemon to set up for it was bound to be restrained in the success it saw, simply because Pokemon on the team relied on one member too much. So, I decided to ditch all these set up strategies and go for a Bulky Offensive/Hyper Offensive type design. After some tinkering and trial-and-error, this is what I ended up with. It has had much more success than any of my other teams, although I can’t give a ladder ranking to back that up since I tested it under 3 different names on PokemonShowdown!, one on my mom’s IPhone and one on each of the two computers I used commonly. Together, I have had 45 wins and 7 losses with this team after it was finalized. I am currently trying to ladder with it under the name Hohenheim of Light on PokemonShowdown! so as to be able to provide a ranking to back up my claims of success. That is all I have to say for introduction so, without wasting any more time, here is my team. Enjoy!

    [​IMG] Team-Building Process [​IMG]

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    This was what I had in the beginning, when I first saw the potential this team had. With this lineup, I had many victories, but there were also some key flaws that kept making themselves known. For example, Venusaur stomped on this team, with it STAB Solarbeam tearing through the Water-types as well as Landorus while eliminating Genesect and Scizor with Hidden Power Fire. Scrafty was no big deal, being unable to OHKO Venusaur before Venusaur could 2HKO it in return. Apart from Venusaur, Scrafty wasn’t functioning too well, rarely finding a suitable opening to Dragon Dance in, being useless otherwise. Landorus also wasn’t carrying its weight, being eliminated easily by priority moves such as Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet and Ice Shard.

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    After some research and testing, I found suitable replacements for the two weak links, Scrafty and Landorus. Terrakion did everything Scrafty had done but better and faster while Latios had better synergy with the rest of the team while making up for the lost Ice Punch with a better assortment of moves. However, something was still missing, since I was still losing too many times to merely be a coincidence. Rotom-Wash no longer seemed to carry its weight, being predictable and weak to Sun teams, dragging the whole team down.

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    Finally, I saw the best replacement for Rotom-Wash, its Kitchen counterpart: Rotom-Heat. Rotom-Heat provided great assistance against Sun teams, which previously had me ripping out my own hair as I unintentionally killed my own team. Also, Rotom-Heat brought with it a better secondary STAB attack and a good reason to Volt Switch, Overheat. Although I know had a Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, it was no big deal seeing as it was the only one that was weak to Stealth Rock and the second one to be weak to hazards, since Terrakion was weak to Spikes. With this new lineup, I saw much more success, losing only due to my foolishness by making truly stupid mistakes.


    [​IMG] At a Glance [​IMG]

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    [​IMG] A Closer Look [​IMG]

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    "Can I eat him?"

    Rotom-Heat does a great job of being unexpected and soaking up fire for team members. With its great typing, it puts Levitate to good use, avoiding a 4x Ground-type weakness while also serving as a good switch in for Terrakion, Keldeo and Genesect, sharing few to no weaknesses with them. Also, unlike its cleaning counterpart Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat puts Volt Switch to good use. After using Overheat one or two times, Rotom-Heat can finish the job using Volt Switch, remedying its slashed Special Attack while also leaving a parting gift. With little physical bulk, Rotom-Heat needs a way to protect itself from physical attackers and this comes in the way of Will-O-Wisp. Not only does Will-O-Wisp cripple physical attackers, it can help deal with walls and other stubborn opponents through residual damage. This can be extremely useful against the likes of Breloom and Gliscor if they do dare switch in to Rotom-Heat, not only preventing them from activating Poison Heal, but also crippling their offensive capabilities. The only downside to Rotom-Heat is its weakness to Stealth Rock, which is never a good characteristic to have, however, since nobody else on the team is weak to Stealth Rock, this is not too major of a problem by any means.

    Team Synergy
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    "You humans are such sad and weak, foolish creatures."

    Xatu makes up for the Rapid Spinner this team doesn't have. Although a bit risky, Xatu uses Magic Bounce to send entry hazards back to the opponent while almost immediately forcing switches, putting those hazards to good use right off the bat. Also, Xatu can bait out opposing Rapid Spinners and have the rest of my team dispose of the spinner for the rest of the match. This makes it so that Terrakion only needs to set up Stealth Rocks once in the battle. U-turn allows Xatu to run after boucing back hazards in anticipation of the opponent switching in a counter. Also, Xatu, Genesect and Rotom-Heat form a VoltTurn core, weakneing opposing Pokemon for the other team members to clean up. Heat Wave allows Xatu to threaten common entry hazard setters, such as Forretress and Ferrothorn, along with the likes of Scizor. With Roost, Xatu can make multiple appearances, healing off any damage accumulated along the way.

    Team Synergy
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    "You should have just done as you were told, but if you scum really wanna test me, then I'll show who's in charge!"

    With the plethora of Sun teams and Fire-types running around in OU, I am alway hesitant about running Genesect with its 4x weakness and it's lack of moves capable of hitting Fire-types for super effective damage. However, this was no huge issue this time seeing that the rest of my team, bar Xatu, resisted Fire-type attacks making it easy to switch out when needed. U-turn allows me to put occasional Attack boosts from Download to good use while also letting me play a game of hit-and-run, along with Xatu and Rotom-Heat, wearing down the opponent slowly before hitting them hard. The Ice Beam/Giga Drain combo provides great coverage, hitting many Pokemon for super effective while Flamethrower cleans up the rest of the mess. One downfall of using Giga Drain over Thunderbolt is that I know longer have anything to threaten the likes of Gyarados with, although I can still bluff carrying a Thunderbolt until I am forced to use Giga Drain, practically giving away my set. Also, Heatran is a huge problem for Genesect seeing how Genesect has nothing to hit Heatran for super effective damage. For this reason, I decided to invest 112 more EVs into Genesect’s Attack stat, allowing me to do a bit more damage before bailing on Heatran with U-turn, while losing out on some Special Attack and Speed.

    Team Synergy
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    "The life of each human is worth one, that's it. Nothing more, nothing less."

    Swords Dance Terrakion brings two words to mind: fast and painful. Terrakion brings much to the table for this team, providing a good fall back for many Pokemon on this team when they are faced with their weaknesses, such as Dark-type attacks on Latios and Xatu, Rock-type attacks on Rotom-Heat and Fire-type attacks on Genesect. Apart from serving as a good switch in to soak up attacks, Terrakion can put a dent into even those that resist either of his two STAB moves, Close Combat and Stone Edge. For those that don’t resist, well, there is no use talking about that which is dead and buried. Swords Dance makes it so that even those that resist Terrakion's two STAB moves have something to be afraid of, because +2 Attack with Terrakion's already monstrous Attack stat is no joke. Apart from tearing things apart, Terrakion plays another important role on this team: Stealth Rock setter. This is absolutely vital because my opponent will most likely be switching a lot to counter my switches and I need some way to penalize them for doing so. To ensure that Terrakion can get Stealth Rock set, I put a Focus Sash in him to prevent him from getting OHKOed. The one negative aspect of Terrakion is his numerous weakness. At first, the sheer number of weaknesses Terrakion brought scared me away from him but, after seeing how the team covered his weaknesses and how destructive Terrakion can be, I decided to keep him and he hasn’t failed me yet.

    Team Synergy
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    "That is why I must kill you. Because no mother can hurt her own sons..."

    Keldeo hits like an absolute beast with its enormous Special Attack boosted further by Choice Specs. Hydro Pump is Keldeo's main move of choice due to its huge base power and STAB bonus. On the downside, Hydro Pump has poor accuracy making it not the bet move to be Choice-locked into. So, for the smaller jobs, Keldeo carriers Surf, with less power but perfect accuracy. The less power is no big deal since Choice Specs makes it powerful enough for whatever job it is doing. Secret Sword is Keldeo's secondary STAB move, aiming to hit Steel-types, Blissey and other Pokemon that resist or take neutral damage from Water- and Grass-type attacks. Reserved for Water-types, specifically Rotom-Wash and Gastrodon, is Hidden Power Grass, which guarantees at least a 2HKO on its targets. Besides being a fearsome attacker, Keldeo provides vital coverage for the rest of the team. It can switch into both of Rotom-Heat's weaknesses, Genesect's only weakness as well as Water-type attacks for Terrakion and Dark- and Ice-type attacks for Latios and Xatu.

    Team Synergy
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    "What was it you were always saying? That you wanted to see which way the world would choose. And here you are, dying like a pathetic rat. It must be humiliating."

    Latios is the fastest Pokemon on this team ignoring items, making one wonder why I would put a Choice Scarf on it rather than Choice Specs, which provides more destructive power. There is only one reason and it is relatively self-explanatory: other Choice Scarfs. Latios now outspeeds most other Choice Scarf Pokemon as well as most common Dragon Dancers. Since Latios has a high Special Attack anyway, it can still hit like a truck (while not really making contact with the opponent). Draco Meteor is the main move of choice, hitting anything that doesn’t resist for a probable OHKO. Hidden Power Fire eliminates Scarfed Genesect, Scizor and other Steel-types as well as Grass-type Pokemon that are troublesome otherwise. Psyshock is absolutely necessary, since I have no other moves that hit Fighting-type Pokemon for super effective. Latios is a great option since not only is it fast, but it also receives STAB from its partial Psychic-typing. Finally, we have Trick, which relieves Latios of its Choice-lock at thr cost of its blistering speed. However, this isn't too big of a loss since it will, in all likelihood, cripple one of the opponent's Pokemon, usually a wall, while picking up a recovery item or, if I'm lucky, a Life Orb which provides for more destructive power. Along with being a great attacker, it can switch into many of its team members weaknesses, such as Fire-, Water- and Grass-type attacks while being well covered itself.

    Team Synergy
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    [​IMG] Threat List [​IMG]
    ~~NOTE: NEEDS TO BE UPDATED FOR NEW TEAM~~


    Minor Threats- Some obstacles encountered along the way
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Chandelure can be annoying to play against if not Choiced since I cannot switch anything useful into it. Scizor and Genesect fall in front of Fire Blast/Flamethrower while Terrakion is guaranteed to be OHKOed by Energy Ball. Latios and Jellicent are both threatened by Shadow Ball while the latter is in the same boat as Terrakion in the case of Energy Ball. To top it all off, Rotom-Heat cannot do much at all to stop the menace. Luckily, Chandelure is insanely slow, allowing some smart switching to put Chandelure to rest.
    [​IMG] Heatran plays the same annoying game as Chandelure, threatening Latios with Hidden Power [Ice]/Dragon Pulse, Terrakion with Earth Power, Genesect and Scizor with some STAB Fire-type attack and Jellicent with a possible Hidden Power [Grass]. Once again, only Rotom-Heat stands in Heatran’s path, being unable to dent Heatran but, nevertheless, stopping Heatran. As with Chandelure, a little bit of outpredicting the opponent deals with Heatran.
    [​IMG] Breloom is not much of a problem until it puts something vital to sleep with Spore. If Latios, Rotom-Heat and Genesect are all out of the picture, then Breloom can spell doom for my team after a Swords Dance boost. Scizor no longer stands tall due to Mach Punch, the same goes for Terrakion and Jellicent, I don’t think I need to explain. However, Latios, Rotom-Heat and Genesect don’t go down together quite often or easily, making this a very minor threat.
    [​IMG] Dragon Dance Haxorus, although rare now, is surprisingly annoying. With one Dragon Dance, Earthquake can eliminate Rotom-Heat, Genesect and Scizor. However, Latios can put it to rest with its superior Speed. So, unless Haxorus gets two DDs in, it isn’t a big threat.
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    Moderate Threats- Unfortunately well-equipped Pokemon or duo of Pokemon
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    [​IMG] Genesect is annoying if used well, being equipped to kill 4 of the 6 Pokemon in my team with the standard Choice Scarf set (U-turn/Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt). However, it can be easily eliminated if I can outpredict my opponent and bring out anybody capable of killing Genesect (Rotom-Heat, Genesect, Laios, Terrakion).
    [​IMG][​IMG] Blissey and Skarmory or any other pair of walls that cover each other so well is a huge problem for my team. Seeing as 4 of my 6 Pokemon are Special attackers, Blissey can be rather annoying. For the remaining two, Skarmory can easily wall their hits, being only dented by Terrakion’s Banded attacks. However, just like any core, outpredicting the pponent and foreseeing their switches can allow me to dismantle their core.
    [​IMG][​IMG] Celebi and Heatran (or Celitran) receive a special mention only because Celebi can bait out Rotom-Heat, Genesect and Latios and then switch to Heatran or bluff the switch, toying with my team. To top it off, Terrakion cannot afford to switch in on either Celebi or Heatran because both Celebi and Heatran can handle it well, carrying at least one move that hits Heatran for super effective damage. However, just like the Skarmbliss duo, outpredicting nullifies this threat.
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    Major Threats- Has the potential to rip through my team
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    [​IMG] Rock Polish Genesect is, so far, the only major threat I have come against. Nothing (except Rotom-Heat) is safe against RP Genesect with the standard set (Giga Drain/Flamethrower/Ice Beam). With boosted speed, Genesect cannot even be stopped by Latios, making Rotom-Heat the only hope. Since nobody is foolish enough to send out Genesect when Rotom-Heat is around, Rotom-Heat won’t be a hope when Genesect is out since it will most probably have been taken care of beforehand.
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    [​IMG] Conclusion [​IMG]

    As I have said earlier, I have had the most success with this team out of all the teams I have made so far. There are some problems that I believe I have stated earlier, such as Stealth Rock danger, and others that I mentioned in my Threat List. This is the first time that I made a Threat List so I may have missed some things and, if I did, I'd appreciated if you could point it out. I would appreciate any comments you have to give since I put a lot of hard work and time into this thread, ending with a horrible cramp in my left hand from all the typing. Thanks for reading and, if you liked it or want to use it, please leave me a Luvdisc![​IMG]

    [​IMG] Exportable [​IMG]
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    Gluttony (Rotom-Heat) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Pain Split
    - Overheat
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Volt Switch

    Lust (Xatu) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - U-Turn
    - Thunder Wave
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost

    Envy (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 112 Atk / 232 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain

    Wrath (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock

    Sloth (Keldeo-Resolution) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Surf

    Pride (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
  2. spooky96

    spooky96

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Where's Greed in your team? :O
    :P

    Anyways, 4 Choice items seems too much. 2 is fairly enough - Scarf for Revenge killing and Band (U-Turning).

    -Latios concerns me. I wonder why you've put 252 in the SPD. Invest those EVs in SPE.
    -Rotom-H is fine I guess. Though I don't have much knowledge about the UU tier.
    -Scizor is perfect. Team also seems balanced for him to switch out on a Pokemon.
    -Genesect again I don't know why the investment is SPD. Maybe trying to survive strong SPA moves such as Flamethrower, Fire Blast or something?

    That's all I can really think as of now.
  3. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    Thanks for the rate and sorry for the confusion, Spd is Speed for all those tha you mentioned. As for Greed, he is in the minor threat list. In the case of the 4 Choice items, so far it has worked, as the Scarfs are rather necessary for the strategy while the Bands work better than Life Orb in their place, trading recoil damage, lesser damage and options for Choice-lock and more damage.
  4. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    573
    Hi

    Cool team. First off, the most obvious weakness I can see is the fact that you have no Stealth Rock. This makes it fairly easy for opposing volt turn chains to run around you, without being penalized for their switches, making your life hard against them. Speaking of hazards, without a rapid spinner your team will have a hard time against Spike Stacking teams, especially with the large amount of switching this team will be doing. A layer of spikes + Stealth rock will really leave your team in trouble for the rest of the match, and Deoxy-D and ferrothorn will both have opportunities to set up throughout the match. Sun offensive teams can also be quite annoying for you, as once Rotom-H is disposed of, nothing on your team can really take on the sweepers that they carry, especially if an offensive volcarona is waiting.

    OK first off, I don't think jellicent fits very well here. Its main purpose is spin blocking, and your team has no hazards that need to be protected. It also doesn't fit in with your teams offensive nature, and it could really slow you down. I thought that your team could in this slot use standard Offensive rapid spin starmie. Starmie provides you with a way to clear hazards off the field for your volt-turn chain to let loose on the opposing team, while also providing a strong offensive presence. Starmie can still work well against rain like jellicent could, with the many water types found on rain being weak to starmies coverage, and not much on rain can take starmies boosted STAB attacks anyway, once ferrothorn is gone of course. Starmie still retains your nice water type, but the support it provides is far more nessecary for the team then the support jellicent was providing. Starmie of note, can't be used for set up like jellicent for RP Genesect, which is as you said the biggest threat to your team, and one of its set up points is on jellicent.

    Now, to fit Stealth Rock onto your team without disrupting anything, there was only one solution I could come up with. I would opt for Offensive Heatran > Rotom-H. This still provides your team with a sun check, while giving you a way to set up stealth rock. You retain your genesect counter, and gain another way to check DD dragons, if you can keep your Air Balloon intact of course. The Air Balloon also lets you evade dugtrio if you can avoid being hit. The fire immunity works really well with Scizor and Genesect, and a U-Turn into heatran to get a boost is a really good momentum grab. Heatran can take on volcarona like rotom-h, and has for the majority the same cool resistances, so your team doesn't lose much, except foe the volt-turn of course.

    Finally, try out Trick > Surf on Latios. Scarf isn't always a favourable item for latios to carry, and trick allows you to cripple a pokemon on the other team in a pinch should the need arise, while giving the abilty for you to switch moves and wreak more havoc on the opposing team. Trick also annoys many variants of heatran, one of the main reaons for surf to be used

    GL with the team
    Starmie and Heatran (open)
    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EV's: 252SpA/ 4SpD/ 252Spe
    Rapid Spin/ Hydro Pump/ Thunderbolt/ Ice beam

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EV's: 252SpA/ 4SpD/ 252Spe
    Fire Blast/ Earth Power/ Hidden Power [ICE]/ Stealth Rock
  5. Drako

    Drako

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    80
    Hi, first of all, I love this team and the presentation of it throughout this RMT. Very well done. Luvdisc'd.

    As you probably know, any good team needs a Stealth Rocker. This is why I would like to suggest you change your banded Terrakion to a Life Orb variant as follows:

    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    252 Att/4 SpD/252 Spe
    Jolly nature
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    -Stealth Rock
    -Taunt/Quick Attack

    You would lose out on a bit of power but you get to change up moves and most importantly you'd gain the invaluable option of Stealth Rocks, arguably the best move in the game. As you run a Volt-turn based team, they'd help out immensely.
    You could run Rock Slide over SE but usually the stronger move is the better option.
    Also, I'd like to slash Taunt and Quick Attack. Both are awesome and it's a matter of preference.

    Last but not least, I'm pretty sure that other than Gastrodon, Giga Drain doesn't hit any bulky water hard enough for being a reason to run it on Jellicent. Even Gastrodon can easily sponge an uninvested Giga Drain and proceed to get a toxic off. You could use sth. like Shadow Ball or Taunt over it.
  6. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Hey, got your request. Nice team you got, although using Rotom-H without Spin / Magic Bounce support is a big problem. I really like that Rotom forme, since it's a full stop to things like Genesect without being Dugtrio bait (cough*Heatran*cough). Asek's Starmie suggestion is indeed good, and I second it; if you want to try something more risky, but more rewarding in a sense, you can try Xatu. Xatu both carries U-Turn, that allows to continue the chain if you predict a switch-out, and has the potential of setting up hazards for you without even wasting a single turn. It also can completely shut down status users, Breloom in particular, that could otherwise be a pain for your team. Now, after thinking quite hard at what to remove, I guess Scizor is the best bet: yeah, you lose priority, but you have two Choice Scarf users, so revenge killing won't be probably a problem anyway.

    Xatu (open)
    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet | Magic Bounce
    Bold | 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
    - U-Turn
    - Thunder Wave / Toxic / Reflect
    - Heat Wave / Psychic
    - Roost


    Now, I again agree with Asek, Jellicent seems out of place somewhat; you can use its Water Absorb ability, but that's it. You could indeed use something more offensively inclined like Keldeo, that preserves your Water resistance while offering significant more punch. Keldeo is a nightmare for rain teams, since unless they carry a Water Absorber on their own, rain Specs Hydro Pump just blows away anything (yeah unless they're carrying Ludicolo or something like this but let's be serious...). Keldeo also has the ability to go mixed without splitting its EVs, which can fix your problems against SkarmBliss or similar cores. It won't kill CeleTran on its onw, but can put a sizable dent in both provided you choose the right Hidden Power. Its set can be tailor made to what you feel like your team needs more: Specs if you're lacking raw power, LO if you want flexibility and set-up abilites.

    Keldeo (open)
    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Specs | Justified
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ghost / Icy Wind
    - Surf / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ghost / Icy Wind

    If you do want to try a LO version, just swap the item and maybe add Calm Mind in one of the last two slots.


    Lastly, we need to add SR somewhere. Terrakion is a good poke to set up those: it can easily force things out and mantain an offensive stance. With the aid of a Focus Sash, it can reliably set up and provide a failproof (well, not really since Stone Miss but you get the point) answer to Volcarona given the Xatu support, and can even Swords Dance and reduce the enemy team to pieces if they gave it an opportunity to do so. Note that Taunt is mostly not needed if you use Xatu, if you predict a Tauntable move just switch to Xatu instead.

    Terrakion (open)
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash | Justified
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge


    Hope my rate helped somewhat. Good luck.
  7. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    I'd like to start off by saying thank you to everyone that has rated (Azek, Drako, ganj4lF and spooky96), I really appreciate it since I put a lot of work into this RMT and into the team. Next, I'd like to thank Drako and Harsha for the Luvdisc, I hope I can get more than my other RMTs have(max. 2 :P), thanks again. Without wasting anymore time, I will tell you what I have decided.

    I played around with all of the suggestions and decided to do the following:

    [​IMG]--->[​IMG]

    I tried out both Starmie and Xatu in this slot and decided to stick with ganj4lF's suggestion of Xatu since it could do more than Starmie with its Magic Bounce, apart from hazards. However, as ganj4lF said, it is risky since, if I fail to predict the Stealth Rocks, they will be sitting to hit not only Rotom-Heat but also Xatu.

    Xatu Set
    Show Hide
    Lust (Xatu) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - U-Turn
    - Thunder Wave
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost


    [​IMG]
    - Quick Attack----> Stealth Rock
    - U-turn---> Swords Dance
    - Choice Band---> Focus Sash

    I tried both of the recommended Terrakion sets and it was a difficult choice. Drako's set provided better power while still providing Stealth Rocks while ganj4lF's nearly guaranteed that something would be setup and that Terrakion would not be OHKOed. The only problem that I experienced with the latter was that Focus Sash was dead weight after one use, being a waste of an item when not put to use while the first set didn't protect from OHKOs. I chose the latter one for now since it makes up for the lost power with Swords Dance. However, I am still going to test the two sets to see if one has a better reason to be used.

    [​IMG]
    - Surf---> Trick

    I really liked this suggestion Asek because I realized that through all my testing, I only used Surf a handful of times, definitely under 10. Also, as Asek said, Latios doesn't want to be carrying Choice Scarf around forever, so Trick gives it a way to dispose of it in a productive way.

    [​IMG]--->[​IMG]

    As all of the people who have rated so far said, Jellicent doesn't really fit my team, being a defensive Pokemon in an offensively inclined team. ganj4lF's suggestion of Keldeo filled Jellicent's spot well, although at the cost of Water Absorb. However, it provided more of a punch, something that Jellicent had barely any of. The set that I chose may need a bit more work, since I only used it a few times to test it out so it is open for suggestions.

    Keldeo Set
    Show Hide
    Sloth (Keldeo-Resolution) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Surf


    Currently updating original post...UPDATED!
  8. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

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    Hey, this is definitely an interesting team.

    I think you made a mistake on your Terrakion. it has choice band with swords dance. I don't know if that item is supposed to be different or if you wanted an attacking move over sd, but SR sash terrakion is one of the better hazard users in this meta. Choice stealth rock is definitely not the way to go.

    Looking at your team overall, you have 3 (maybe 4 with Terrak) choiced pokemon and that may not be the best decision against a bulkier team. They will be able to capitalize on the move you're locked in and set up on you. They could also scout for free if they have a pokemon with protect.

    A majority of your team is already fast so I would give Genesect an Expert Belt to bluff the choice set and nail some crucial KO's on pokemon that attempt to set up on it believing it to be choice locked. U-turn really tricks the opponent into thinking that it is choiced. I would just replace Thunderbolt to Giga Drain so that against Scarf politoed, other water types, and Terrakion/Ttar you heal some hp and inflict some crucial damage.

    Hope I helped and good luck with the team.
  9. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
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    Thank you for the rate and thank you for catching that mistake. It seems that I rushed too much to update the team and forgot to fix the item. I will get on it right when I get sufficient computer access. Also, I am still updating the team, still needing to post Sloth's (Keldeo-R's) new description and team synergy.

    UPDATE: Finished updating team, should be fine now. Please do point out anything I may have messed up on again. Thank you!

    In regards to the suggestion for Genesect, I will definitely look into it since I like how it seems to work, although the loss of Choice Scarf does trouble me. Thank you again, I will look into the Genesect suggestion!
  10. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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    Cool team man!

    Your Rotom-H / Xatu core is carrying the burden of your whole entire team- as they are your only answer to many of the tier's top threats- Genesect in particular, but also Breloom, Sun, and other fighting types. Rotom-H in particular needs a renovation in my opinion, because of the sheer amount of things it is your only answer to I think you should run a bulkier spread, letting you survive longer and letting your team run smoothly. An extra powerful special attacker is not needed, especially since your team already carries two powerhouse specials. I think you should use Specially Defensive Rotom-H instead of your current one.

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Calm / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Volt Switch / Overheat / Pain split / WoW

    Max HP and SpD give you the bulk you need to continue supporting your team and tanking hits. This set's sole purpose is to come in when necessary, burn something / KO something with Overheat, and then Volt Switch out. Overheat is already powerful as heck, with the same BP as Latios's Draco Meteor, so extra investment in SpA is not needed, since you will be hitting hard enough regardless. Rotom-H uses Pain split in a much different way than others; SR actually makes its splits more powerful- pulling your opponent's health down even more to match yours. Volt Switch lets it work in your core to create mayhem and madness, and WoW lets you screw with physical attackers and ground types who expect you to Volt Switch. Being such an important pivot to your team makes keeping Rotom alive a priority- as without it, Genesect and Sun run over your team.

    Good luck!
  11. Derpinator

    Derpinator

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    Thank you very much for the rate, I completely agree with this since I just played against a Sun team and lost Rotom-Heat to Venusaur since I had not Special Defense investment. Luckily, I won with Latios OHKOing Venusaur, but that was too close so I will take your advice! I will update the thread later since I have to go sleep now. Thanks again!

    Also, thank you to Trinitrotoluene and Tabuu for leaving a Luvdisc!
  12. Drako

    Drako

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    Just a quick nitpick, the spread on your Rotom-H is not that favourable. With its Stealth Rock weakness you want to have an odd number in HP.
    Try 248 HP/ 252 Spdef/ 8 Spe.
    Also, I personally would not change Genesect's Choice Scarf. Having 2 scarfers in the current meta is extremely useful and stall is basically nonexistent anyways. Even if it wasn't, Genesect just grabs momentum with U-Turn.

    Nice updates so far!
  13. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
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    173
    Thank you again for helping! I will change the EV spread when I get on the computer. It never occurred to me that that would be beneficial. In regards to Genesect, I am still deciding on it since, during my bit of testing, sometimes I appreciated having options and sometimes I wish I had my Scarf. Unfortunately, they are both about even in occurrence so I'll need to test it more.

    Also, thank you to Miles Tails for the Luvdisc!
  14. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene (◕‿◕✿)
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Alright. Received your request. Also, nice format. Would you mind sharing the fonts you used for the Pokemon sets? They look nice.

    At a first glance, there seems to be nothing too overtly wrong with your team. However, a few nitpicks will (hopefully) improve your team's performance. First off, I'm in agreement with Chimpakt in his recommendation of using Expert Belt over Choice Scarf and Giga Drain over Thunderbolt on Genesect. This gives you an effective means of placing pressure on your opponent by forcing KOs that they won't be expecting. Besides, its only hard counters are Heatran, Rotom-H, Chansey, and Blissey, all of which won't like taking a U-turn and dealing with your other sweepers. However, if you do end up keeping the Scarf on Genesect, I'd strongly encourage you to use an EV spread of 112 Atk / 232 SpA / 164 Spe, which will give it the power necessary to OHKO 252 / 0 Latias after Stealth Rock. You have Latios, which acts as the team's obligatory fast Scarfer, so less speed is needed on Genesect.

    Nitpicks:
    • [​IMG]
      • Choice Scarf ----> Expert Belt*
      • Thunderbolt ----> Giga Drain
      • 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe ----> 112 Atk / 232 SpA / 164 Spe
    *: optional

    All in all, it was tough trying to find anything to improve upon with your team. It's solid and well-presented. It earned my Luvdisc, that's for sure.
  15. Derpinator

    Derpinator

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    Thank you for the rate and thanks again for the Luvdisc, I really appreciate it!

    Now down to the rate, since somebody else suggested the Giga Drain switch as well, I will definitely do that one. But, I suppose I will keep testing the Expert Belt vs Choice Scarf suggestion, since it is quite evenly split although I am still leaning towards Choice Scarf. Also, that EV spread looks very promising and, in the two test battles I had with it, it worked very well. Most people expect a full EV investment in Speed and switch out supposedly slower Scarfs when they see that I am Choice-locked. Also, the font in the pictures is called AR DARLING and I used it in Paint since I don't have any fancy picture editing programs.

    Also, thank you to TeamEmpoleon and Modest Garchomp for their Luvdisc's as well, I now have more than three times the number of Luvdisc's I have ever gotten before!

    Here are the changes:

    [​IMG]
    - Thunderbolt--->Giga Drain
    - 8 Atk / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd--->112 Atk / 232 SAtk / 164 Spd

    Giga Drain gives more coverage in the sense that the slot can now hit Ground-types along with Water-types, while losing coverage on the likes of Gyarados. Also, the new EV spread is of great use, boosting Genesect's Attack, enabling it to attain some key OHKOs while taking advantage of people's preconception of Scarfed Genesect running max Speed.

    [​IMG]
    - 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef--->248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd

    This EV spread gives Rotom-Heat an odd number of HP, making it so that Stealth Rock damage is rounded down, while giving Rotom-Heat a bit of Speed to outspeed some slower threats.



    Currently updating original post...UPDATED!
  16. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hi Derpinator, I like the team a lot!
    This is a well built team featuring an underrated mon in rotom heat. The team is overall very solid, But one concern is how it fairs against rain teams. Powerful rain hits are going to maim the team, as the only water resists have no recovery and arent bulky. The team fairs poorly vs rotom wash, especially on sand since your only water/electric resist is pursuitable. Also strong hurricanes hurt everything other than rotom heat, and even then it has a hard time taking on all those rain threats. Sun shouldnt be too big of a problem because of Latios and terrakion, so I dont see rotom heat doing too much works vs the most popular archetype atm in rain offense. I would suggest a life orb tank Latias over the scarf Latios and a scarf keldeo over the Spex one, basically reversing Latios and keldeos roles. Moreover, rain could be handled even better if you could go back to rotom wash and replace xatu with a specially defensive jirachi. This way sun is handled well (Latias, terrak, keld) and rain is checked much easier (Latias, rotom, keld, rachi) and sand as well (rak, keld, wash). Scarf latis really have a problem vs sand because they can't revenge without being pursuited. Xatu isn't the most reliable in preventing hazards especially vs stuff like terrak, tar, deo gar etc (currently gar poses quite a big threat). If you do adopt the jirachi then you can move rocks from rak to jirachi, and replace it with taunt on the former. You can also just replace the current rak with a sub salac variant.
    Good luck!

    Ps. Currently rp lando is a huge threat especially with tar, since it 2hkos heat while you are unable to ohko. That's a mon to keep in mind
  17. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Hey Derpinator i got your request solid weatherless team! It is quite interesting because i have been using a weatherless bulky offense as of late with Xatu and Terrakion in it ;)

    Your team looks quite solid so there isn't to much problems i can see with it but as you mentioned SkarmBliss and other defensive combos can be troublesome for your team. I think the main reason for this is you have 3 choice item users which isn't necassirily an overkill but makes your offensive pokemon walled easier by the opponent and having 2 choice scarf users can prove to be a bit redundant at times.

    To help free up one of you choice scarfers, give you a better time against SkarmBliss and provide your team with an excellent wall breaker i suggest Life Orb Latios>Choice Scarf Latios with acces to Psyshock Latios can wear down Chansey and Blissey as well as use his great special attack to beat more defensively inclined walls like Skarmory. Your team really appreciates Latios's ability to break walls because it opens up a Keldeo or Genesect sweep late game. The loss of the Choice Scarf is not to bad seeing as Genesect already provides your team with an excellent Choice Scarf pokemon and your team will really enjoy Latios's wall breaking abilities with a Life Orb attatched being able to beat SkarmBliss with a combination of Hidden Power [Fire], and Psyshock. Latios also helps you somewhat with Celetran seeing as Celebi can't do to much to it and your Latios has Surf to beat Heatran. Dragon Pulse can be used over Draco Metoer for more consisten albiet less damage.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Life Orb | Levitate
    Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Surf | Hidden Power [Fire]

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Latios
    .Life Orb Set--->Choice Scarf Set



    ~Superpowerdude
  18. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
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    Hey there,

    This is a pretty cool team and it seems pretty solid overall. Rotom-H is pretty cool, but I think running a Heatran in its place would help you out a lot overall. Most of the threats you mentioned in your threatlist are dealt with by an offensive trapper Heatran set. A Magma Storm Taunt Heatran can do much of what Rotom-H did, but also beats CeleTran cores, Genesects (like rotom), Blissey, and Chandelure. It also maintains a lot of the offensive pressure that your team has, and should fit well over Rotom-H. Anyways cool team, gl.

    set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
  19. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
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    173
    Thanks for the rates everyone! Sorry that I haven't responded to the earlier rates, but I had 2 finals today so I was studying. Now to get to the rates...

    I was initially going to turn down the Life Orb Latios suggestion by Superpowerdude for one main reason: Venusaur. Latios was the only thing that I had fast enough to outspend Chlorophyll Venusaur, OHKOing it with Psyshock. So, I wasn't planning on taking that request and, instead, I was going to take the Expert Belt Genesect suggestion to de-Scarf somebody on the team. But, dragonuser then came and gave his suggestion for Heatran, which was previously suggested but I declined it seeing that I didn't need it then. Now, however, it fits better allowing me to de-Scarf Latios since I would now have a new Venusaur counter, Heatran. Also, the trapping capabilities of this set also appealed to me, allowing me to trap and kill specific Pokemon. So, I plan on putting Life Orb and Surf on Latios and replacing Rotom-Heat with Heatran, ONLY if, after a bit of testing, I find that the loss of Choice Scarf and Trick on Latios and Rotom-Heat's burning and Volt Switch capabilities don't hurt the team too much.

    Also, thank you to Furai for the Luvdisc!
  20. PSBS

    PSBS

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    I am relatively new to competitive Pokemon but I love Rotom Heat form a lot so I decided to look for teams that had it so I can work on my own. I found this team and I really liked it since the first Pokemon was Rotom Heat form. Unfortunately, I read through the team and realized that Rotom Heat form doesn't really work with this team. Instead, you should try out Heatran as a lot of people have suggested, it works better and covers your team better as well. Also, as other people said, it helps your team cover those unchecked bases much better. Personally, I like Tormentran but that is just me so you don't have to use that, you could use the trapper set that was recommended last since it works well with your team strategy. But, this is my first rate so I wouldn't really say that my advice is the best, but, since other people suggested it to, I think it is a good idea to go with it. Good luck!

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