1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Dark War

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Go10, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    829
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Back to business with an offensive team of mine! During the BW1 era, where everyone would use the rain crap you'd see all across the tier, I decided to make this team because I was bored of seeing the same thing so frequently. The team was pretty good. However, I wasn't very serious about playing at the time, and simply wanted something to roll with on the ladder. There was a lot of room for improvement with the team, and as such, I decided to revamp it some month ago in case I needed it and wanted to use it when possible.

    So basically, the team was built with a fast paced momentum, betting everything on your mindgame, your ability to outplay your opponent (yeah, I really like taking risks, even if it means losing the game when I fail), and taking advantage of the current metagame's weaknesses. The team proved many times that it was perfectly fine. Hugen used a variant of the team twice in the SPL won his game. Nelson made it to the GS final and didn’t lost when he had to play Ubers. Additionally, some other players, such as Ojama, used the team in other tournaments and to reach reqs on the ladder. Anyway, let's move on...

    The team's theme is Blazblue. I've been playing competitively for 3 years now and with the latest release of CP, it just so happens that a 6 mons team fits perfectly with this theme :V
    Music please !



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Your next line will be - "Damn, what's this"
    [​IMG]

    Trinity
    (Deoxys-S) @ Leftovers

    • Pressure
    • 252 HP / 148 Def / 16 SAtk / 92 SDef
    • Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    • Moveset:
      • Spikes - Don't need an explanation.
      • Taunt- For slower mons like Tentacruel or Ferrothorn. Also allow you to not be a setup fodder.
      • Stealth Rock - Don't need an explanation.
      • Hidden Power [Fire] - Hit hard Ferro/Tress and make them think twice before staying vs you.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:
      He’s incredibly effective for any offense, and force the opponent to lead with some pokemon like Genesect or Gira-O, which is kinda cool and easy to predict. His speed allows him to setup every hazard.
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :Even without any speed, you're faster than Mewtwo by 1 point, so no need to invest. Enough in Def to be 3HKOed by Adamant Gira-O's Shadow Sneak, 92 in SpA to take 99.67% from a Draco Meteor coming from Dialga/Gira. The rest goes in SpA for HP Fire. I didn’t want to use the standard Deo-S because it just felt boring and wasn't mandatory. Being bulky allows me to make some plays vs SubGira and beat his ass - people easily forget how bulky this (BAN ME PLEASE) can be.
      .....


    • Lead matchup :
      Show Hide

      • Deo-S : Avoid this, I'll usually lead with Ray and smack his face.
      • Darkrai : Let something sleep then revenge kill it. Most of the times, I'll break his sash with Palkia, then rk with Ray/Deo-s (yeah, deo can switch on him if he doesn’t have twave)
      • Kyogre : Noone will lead with ScarfOgre vs Deo, it's just like "hey, I want to play with SR and 2 spikes on my field", so even if he's faster, he doesn't know it and will not come on you. Use SR and see if he kill you, if so, then he's specs, otherwise he can't kill you. If by any chance the opponent lead with ScarfOgre, then you know he is stupid/new in uber and dont have to predict in the next turns.
      • Deo-A: Depends what your opponent is using, sometimes I'll sac Palkia and break his sash then rk with Ray, or do the same with Deo-s hp fire.
      • Dialga : SR then spikes, use Taunt when you feel the SR incoming. Take care of the Life Orb variant, you're OHKOed by DM; there is a 50% chance that you’re 3HKOed by Dpulse.
      • Groudon : Same as Dialga, less threatening.
      • Foretress : Annoying piece of shit. You have to predict right, Taunt when he's trying to setup his hazards, hp fire when he spin, SR when ... you can. Use Spikes instead of SR if he doesn't have any major threat (Ho-Oh, Ray, Lugia).
      • Tentacruel : Taunt (!!), SR, then go for Ghostceus, then double switch on Deo-S again (or something else like Ray if you can grab a kill). Don’t let him use Toxic Spikes, really.
      • Genesect:Interesting lead because there are 2 scenarios, and often people want to grab a “free U-turn”. The first one is when he is not leading with gene because he knows Deo-s is faster than Scarfgene and has a Fire move most of the time; with this you know he is not that bad. The second one is when he is leading with him; he's stupid, inexperienced or brain-dead. Anyway he's going to use U-turn, which doesn’t kill you so use SR/Spikes; he'll probably go for Gira-O to prevent your second layer of hazards.

      .....



    Shall we begin? Allow me to show you... the power... of my race!
    Ignorant child.
    [​IMG]

    Valkenhayn
    (Rayquaza) @ Life Orb

    • Air Lock
    • 36 Atk / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
    • Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
    • Moveset:
      • Draco Meteor - A powerful STAB we use when we want to hit hard.
      • ExtremeSpeed - Strong priority, pretty useful to pick off something low life.
      • Fire Blast - That feeling when you roast alive a full life Ferrothorn under rain ... priceless.
      • Outrage- Allows you to be still threatening when you are at -2. Also, no one can survive the mighty combo of DM + Outrage, outside of dragon resistance/SpD Arceus.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:Ray is the bane of any stallteam, and by putting him in the team, I can safely say that any defensive team is going to be a no-problem matchup if I play him well enough. His wallbreaking ability is godlike, no matter what type of team I’m facing, no matter the weather, they are naked before the king of Dragons. Having a ground resist, a check for every weather and so much raw power is priceless.
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :Mild because I don’t need the extra speed, invest enough so I’m faster than every neutral 90 base speed Pokemon, full SpA to hit like a truck, the rest goes in Atk.
      .....

    • How does it works ?
    • It’s difficult to explain how he works, it completely depends on what you’re facing. When playing against a rain, offense or not, you want to bring in Ray as early as possible, and whenever you can because he’s so troublesome for them that it would be stupid to not take full benefit of him. If they have something like Kabutops or Kingdra, you have to be careful and stay healthy enough to take SR and attack 2 times. We don’t want to be in a case where he sacs something and lets you die via LO. Against sun, you have to go all out; they have Latias to keep you in check anyway, so come in whenever you can, and if you can take out Ho-Oh with you, do it - it’s really important and paves the way for a Palkia sweep quite easily
      .....



    There is a difference between being hasty and fast, little boy.
    [​IMG]

    Nine
    (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf


    • Pressure
    • 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    • Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    • Moveset:
      • Spacial Rend – Best Dragon STAB for ScarfKia since spammable.
      • Surf – Dual STAB with Srend, Hydropump isn’t worth his extra power due to his lack of precision.
      • Fire Blast – Nothing special, for steel type.
      • Thunder - Mainly for Kyogre.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:Palkia fills the role of Kyogre “counter”, revenge killer and glue. I hate using scarfmons, especially in uber, but the team was too weak to ScarfOgre/Kyu to play without him. The dual stab is pretty useful, and sometimes can lead to a sweep.
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :
      Timid to outrun Rayquaza, obvious is obvious.
      .....

    • How does it works ?It's kind of funny that most of the time, I’ll use Palkia but never attack with him. I mean, being locked is something I hate, and there are a lot of Uber mons who can laugh at your special rend. So when playing Scarfkia, I’ll double switch all the time, until I’m sure that if I kill someone, nothing wrong will come after that. Killing Kyogre with Thunder is fine, but if Ferrothorn comes after that and starts bitching with leech seed and spikes, then it’s not worth it. When playing, keep your head ahead of the game - always think about what can happen 3 turns later and whatnot. Palkia comes on the field, takes a Water Spout or w/e it is, then double switches on the most appropriate mons. Of course, you're sometimes forced to attack, so deal with it.
      .....




    Give it everything, and you might live a little longer.

    [​IMG]

    Hakumen
    (Mewtwo) @ Leftovers


    • Pressure
    • 156 HP / 100 SAtk / 252 Spd
    • Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    • Moveset:
      • Psystrike - What define BOSStwo, nothing can tank Mewtwo thanks to this.
      • Recover - Underrated for a long time, ppl seems to understand how powerful Mewtwo recover is.
      • Aura Sphere - To hit Tyranitar, Heatran, Ferrothorn and Dialga who are pretty annoying to face and being able to kill them before they toxic/tw is cool. Also useful for Darkrai.
      • Calm Mind - Don't need an explanation.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:Mewtwo is the soul of the team, he’s so useful that it’s not even funny... ok I'm lying, he's funny as hell. He can act as a sweeper by going all out, or waiting for a chance to setup and walk through the entire team without any hope of your opponent coming back. His sheer power is extremely powerful. Combine this with his incredible speed and bulk, and Mewtwo becomes the perfect sweeper and is an obvious pick when playing offense. Also, all of his moves can't miss ... I'm in love.
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :2HKO Latias at +1, full speed and the rest goes in HP for some bulk.
      .....

    • How does it works ?Again, it completely depends on what you’re facing. People seems to forget that Mewtwo can be used with something else other than Life Orb. They are thinking like “Mewtwo is easy to revenge kill, so let’s go with LO + 4 slots and try to hit hard before dying”. Instead of betting everything on 2-3 turns before dying, I tried to use him so he can’t be easily revenge killed, and I was surprised by how good he can function. If they have too many checks for Mewtwo, thus making it hard for it to sweep, forget Calm Mind and play him the same way you’ll use Rayquaza : come in whenever you can and kill shit. Genesect is 2hkoed by Aura sphere, so no matter what, he can’t switch-in without losing half of his health. Predict his switch, punish it. When the opportunity arises, use Calm Mind and proceed to rape some women.
      .....



    Listen up ! Clear me a path in three seconds or else I'll make you eat the ground.
    One ...
    Oh I already killed you. Sorry, Couldn't tell you. A man only needs the number one to get through life.
    [​IMG]

    Jubei
    (Groudon) @ Leftovers

    • Drought
    • 156 HP / 156 Atk / 16 SDef / 180 Spd
    • Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    • Moveset:
      • Rock Polish - Fast & Furious.
      • Stone Edge - The MVM, Le fameux Stone edge, this move is such a troll, really.
      • Fire Punch - I used Swords Dance a lot, but Ferrothorn and Grassceus were so annoying, and Skarm can sometime be even more, so switched to Fpunch.
      • Earthquake - STAB.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:Thunder resist, semi-tank that's able to take an Outrage when needed, and can act as a sweeper late game. Also, Groudon removes rain, something really important in uber - being able to control the weather can be game breaking.
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :Faster than Lugia without Rpolish, 3HKOed by Arceus +0 even with Ice Beam, Outrage from ScarfKrom is also a 3HKO. Can’t tell you exactly how many things this spread does, I made it with Private 3 years ago, it combines bulk and power and is the best spread for RPdon imo.
      .....

    • How does it works ?Comes in late game, when the team is weakened enough, and sweeps the opponent. Tank any physical move when the need arises, or when I have to change the weather. Groudon acts as a supporter early game because he can’t wallbreak by himself, and then becomes a real threat late game. Like Palkia, if you have to bring him on the field earlier than predicted, try to not be setup fodder and double switch if you can.
      .....



    Better stay down there, buddy.
    [​IMG]

    Hazama
    (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate

    • Multitype
    • 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
    • Timid Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    • Moveset:
      • Calm Mind - Don't need an explanation.
      • Focus Blast - Perfect coverage, HP Fight is an option lol ...
      • Judgement - STAB.
      • Recover - Don't need an explanation.
      .....

    • Why this Pokémon?:Arceus is a no-brain pick when I build, he’s so versatile and powerful, there is really no reason to not play him. I needed a spinblocker and something able to tank every scarfer all the day, Arceus fill this niche easily. He’s also broken with Calm Mind so … why not ?
      .....

    • Spread, item and nature :Timid full speed in case a CM war broke, full HP for being tanky as hell. I hate spreads like this but well, there is nothing better for BrokenCeus anyway.
      .....

    • How does it works ?“How does it work”, it’s more about “when are you allowed to show what type of arceus are you using”, something really important when playing offense and a lot of people underestimate the importance of this choice. When playing defensive teams, its quite easy to know if you are grass, steel or ghost; but when playing offense, the difference between Ghostceus and EKceus is HUGE and can be game breaking. Try to keep him secret as long as possible, and do not be greedy with Calm Mind, playing like Palkia by pivoting is great, Arceus is bulky enough to Recover later anyway.
      .....
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
    TV-Rocka likes this.
  2. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    829
    [​IMG]


    Show Hide
    Offensif​


    [​IMG]

    Arceus ExtremeKiller: Cant setup without losing a bunch of health, then Ghostceus can finish him off. He's really annoying to face because of the poor focus blast's accuracy.

    Arceus Ghost: He's going to wait for Palkia to lock himself, don't. Most of the time, you'll just sacrifice something to do some damage then rk with something. He's obviously a top threat because of his bulk and insane power, it's incredibly difficult to check him without playing defensive mon or darkrai.

    Arceus Steel / Rock: He simply can't setup, really. Steelceus is always used during the midgame to check Rayquaza so I'll not try to setup Ghostceus.

    Arceus Grass: I simply love facing the CM variant because Mewtwo can just switch-in and start punching his face. The support with TW is more troublesome. All in all, nothing really serious, dont lock yourself too early with Palkia and it should be fine.

    Arceus Fight: Same as Grassceus, but even easier because of Ghostceus being his counter.

    [​IMG]

    Turbo Dancer: Keep rayquaza alive and you're fine. Ghostceus can take one flare blitz if needed. You can always lure the HJK then switch on ghostceus.

    [​IMG] <

    Scarf: bleh, hit like a girl.

    Bandurrrr: Kill him before he kill you, even if it cost you someone. He's slow as hell anyway.

    SD-Yache Berry: Same as the bander, but less threatening.

    [​IMG] <

    Choice band: Can be annoying for Mewtwo and Rayquaza, but setup fodder for Ghostceus.

    SD: bzzzz

    [​IMG] <

    NP: Let something sleep then revenge kill. Annoying because he can stop Ghostceus even with some Calm Mind

    [​IMG]/[​IMG]/[​IMG] <

    Atk: Something is going to die but that's fine.

    Speed: Only used in the lead position, Ray lead win the duel.

    [​IMG] <

    Mixed: the whole team is faster so nothing serious. Ghostceus can setup on him.

    Stall TW: Ray can kill him, same for Groudon, Ghostceus and Mewtwo if low health.

    [​IMG] <

    Mixed: Baited by Deo-s. The whole team can kill him easily beside Groudon.

    [​IMG] <

    Tank: One shot by Ray.

    Rock Polish: He can't setup without taking a lot, Groudon can take one EQ and rk.

    Earth plate lead: lead with ray, DM, DEADon.

    [​IMG] <

    Taunt/Roar: Can be annoying because Ray is completely walled. Other than that, nothing special.

    [​IMG] <

    Standard: Can be a problem if he subs, dont let him do that and its fine.

    [​IMG] <

    CM: Palkia Thunder, Mewtwo Psystrike, Ray DM-Outrage.

    Choice: Palkia, Ray, Groudon. I can sometimes try to setup Mewtwo on the scarf by setting the sun with Groudon.

    [​IMG] < What I would call "being classy".

    Psycho Killer: Unless he's CM recover, I doubt I can be swept by him.

    [​IMG] <

    Standard : Groudon, Ray. Ceus can take one hit and kill him.

    Spinner : If he try to spin, it's going to cost him his live.

    [​IMG] >

    Standard : Annoying but he's frail as hell so try to catch him on the switch. He's forced to come a lot with Ray and Mewtwo, so bewteen the hazards and Aura Sphere/Extremspeed, his staying power is quite short.

    [​IMG] <

    Scarf: Mewtwo can setup on him, same for ceus and groudon.

    Lustrous: Only Ray is slower.

    [​IMG] <

    Swords Dancer: All the team KO him.

    Dragon Dance: Same.

    Mixed: Hit hard and nothing can prevent him to DM your face.

    [​IMG] <

    Choice: w/e.

    [​IMG] <

    Choice: Uncommon. Pray to not be flinched too many times, it's you and your luck.

    SubSeed: Can't setup.

    [​IMG] <

    Scarf: Ghostceus, mewtwo, groudon, cya nerd. Funny that my worst nemesis in UVW became my best friend with this team.

    [​IMG] <

    Lead : He's now played as a suicid lead, I wonder why ! Don't lead with Deo, hazard can wait.

    [​IMG] <

    Mixed : Everyone is faster and can kill him, but the surprise factor can cost Groudon's live.

    Scarf: bleh.


    ---------

    Defensif​


    [​IMG] <

    Standard: Can't wall the team, the only time he can setup his hazards is when Palkia is locked on Srend.

    [​IMG] <

    Standard: Annoying as a lead, no problem as a team member.

    [​IMG] <

    The Wall, physically: Can smash his face easily.

    The Wall, specially: Same.

    [​IMG] < Izy Izy

    Standard: She's the special wall, but cant handle mewtwo.

    [​IMG] <

    The Great Wall: My nemesis. Arceus is the only one able to win vs him. Sometime you're against dumb ppl and let lugia die vs rayquaza thinking they are in dpp.

    [​IMG] <

    Standard: I hate this guy so much. Although I can kill him with 4 members, he slow my playstyle a lot and is really annoying.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]<

    SubToxicTaunt: ray, palkia, mewtwo.
    [​IMG] <

    Standard: Don't let him setup Tspikes and it's fine.


    [​IMG]

    Show Hide

    [​IMG] - Ultra Offence - [​IMG]

    The most interesting matchup with a lot of fun and mindgames. It usually doesn't last, 10-15 turns. Our (and his) objective is to keep the momentum and force the opponent to revenge kill our mons until the end. The first to setup his late game usually wins the game. This is skill based matchup (or Stone edge based).

    [​IMG] - Bulky Offence - [​IMG]

    The most common style and for good reason. The key there is to setup spikes early game (most of the time, SR isn't mandatory) and force switch with Mewtwo and Arceus, then clean with Groudon.

    [​IMG] - Soft Stall - [​IMG]

    The worst matchup because of Lugia. Also, he's always packed with shit like SpD Groudon and Ferrothorn. Aim for a Ghostceus sweep and try to lure out Lugia with Mewtwo then double switch on Ceus and spam Judgement. The key is to hit fast and hard, don't let him any room to breath, predict predict predict, it's hard but clearly winnable.

    [​IMG] - Hard Stall - [​IMG]

    The easiest matchup because Mewtwo can just sit there and spam Psystrike +6. Their only answer to Mewtwo Psystrike is Ferrothorn, play well with Rayquaza and it shouldn't be a problem.



    [​IMG]

    I had a lot of fun with this team, building and trying some new toys is what make me enjoy the uber tier instead of running always the same crap ScarfGene team. Thanks to Bloo for the grammar check.

    Importable :

    Show Hide

    Trinity (Deoxys-S) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 16 SAtk / 92 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Stealth Rock

    Valkenhayn (Rayquaza) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 36 Atk / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage

    Nine (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast

    Hakumen (Mewtwo) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 156 HP / 100 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psystrike
    - Recover
    - Aura Sphere
    - Calm Mind

    Jubei (Groudon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 156 HP / 156 Atk / 16 SDef / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Fire Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Hazama (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Focus Blast
    - Judgment
    - Recover


    Use my nicknames's pokemon if you want to play/test this team please, thanks !
  3. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    528
    Hello go10. This team is somewhat stronger than your other team but has lots of trouble with stall which I will detail below and attempt to correct. Not many offensive teams handle stall well but this team as it stands is exceptionally weak to stall.

    vs Stall:

    In your RMT you write that hard stall is "The easiest matchup because Mewtwo can just sit there and spam Psystrike +6. Their only answer to Mewtwo Psystrike is Ferrothorn, play well with Rayquaza and it shouldn't be a problem." I can't even begin to explain how wrong this is. Relying on Mewtwo to get to +6 and sweep is simply not reliable. With the lack of Ice Beam on your Mewtwo set, pokemon such as Deoxys-D, physically defensive Giratina-A, Lugia, specially defensive stall Mewtwo, and physically defensive Giratina-O forms will counter you due to Mewtwo's lack of coverage. If you also consider Mewtwo's common counters, which include specially defensive Jirachi, physically defensive Kyogre, and physically defensive Ho-oh (if SR is not up), the list of pokemon your Mewtwo does not beat becomes even larger and it is clear that it will not be able to sweep against a stall team. Further, ground types such as Groudon and Landorus-T will also manage to check you. These are pokemon that should not beat Mewtwo. With the lack of Life Orb, the above weaknesses are worsened exponentially.

    Additionally, your Arceus-Ghost set is max hp which means that a specially defensive Forretress can almost singlehandedly win the game against you. Sure, you can get up a layer of Spikes and SR early game, but Forretress will just Toxic and pain split Arceus-Ghost to death and look for an opportunity to spin on Mewtwo or Rayquaza locked into Outrage. With Arceus-Ghost dead or crippled from Toxic, offensive attackers like Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, Palkia, etc all become more of a threat since you will not have a poke that can take a hit from them.

    Another issue is that your Deoxys-S set only beats Forretress while delaying Tentacruel. You will also lose to opposing Deo-S or Deo-A with Extremespeed. Excadrill has free reign vs your team, spamming Earthquake and rapid spin which almost always means you will not get any hazards up.

    The last pokemon that makes stall difficult to handle is Choice Scarf Palkia. Without the threat of being to use one of 4 different type moves, your opponent can easily and comfortably wall you without taking too large of risks. One wrong prediction with Palkia means more hazard damage --> less switches later. You will not be able to clean with a Scarf Palkia vs stall teams.

    vs Offense:

    I mentioned your Deo-S weakness, but generally your team matches up well vs offense since you have Arceus Ghost. However, I would predict many of your offensive games to come down to a speed tie between Arc Ghosts since your scarfer is a Palkia. Palkia is a weak scarfer -- it is not able to crush opposing Arceus forms like Zekrom, cannot build momentum like Genesect, and don't have good resists like steel pokemon or Terrakion. Being vulnerable to Extremespeed is not a characteristic a scarfer on offense wants to have.

    Changes:


    Groudon needs to be changed to a support role of Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Blast. It is currently invested in bulk and offense which results in a weaker set overall since it cannot perform a single role to perfection. Giratina, Landorus-T, Ho-Oh, Arceus forms, all laugh at it. If you move SR to Groudon it allows you to run Fire Punch/Magic Coat on Deoxys-S instead of HP Fire/Stealth Rocks. HP Fire is a weak move and a poor choice on Deoxys-S while Fire Punch will allow you to beat Excadrill and Forretress comfortably. With this change, you will only lose to custap Forretress (which you already lose to; it prevents both sides from getting hazards) or Leppa Deoxys-S. Magic Coat also helps vs your glaring opposing Deoxys-S weakness. Finally, you need to run Ice Beam on Mewtwo over either Recover or Calm Mind. I would also suggest adding Life Orb to Mewtwo so you can break stall.

    Unfortunately, there is no easy fix to Scarf Palkia and its lack of contribution to the team, as it is a pokemon that was added to fill the gaps on your team since you needed both a scarfer and Kyogre check. Dialga is another option to consider, since it helps against SD Arceus-Normal and Rayquaza, but it makes you more vulnerable to Kyogre. Due the way your team was built, you will not be able to have both a strong scarfer and a Kyogre check.

    These changes should help you be more successful with the team. Good luck and have fun and I hope you learned something!
  4. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    829
    Hi donkey,

    So, of course, when saying Mewtwo can just sit and pull off a +6 sweep is an exageration, but that's what happen by the end of the game if you play well (the sweep, not the +6). Rayquaza is a real threat for stallteam and with deo-s, it's not that hard to avoid any hazard. He destroy stallteam alone so easily when you predict right every time, really.
    Jirachi is indeed really annoying, forgot to add him in the TL, thank you. Usually, I'll force him out to take SR+Spikes then force him out with ray and groudon. That doesn't work all the time but, nothing can be done.

    Here is an example of how I deal with stall : http://pastebin.com/d3wz9vVi
    That was vs Bloo, so not that bad as a player I guess. He did some mistakes, but with Ray doing so much work, Arceus was going to sweep anyway.

    As I said for deo-s, never lead with our own deoxys since we're losing pretty hard; Ray can kill him with FB+ES and let him setup only one layer of hazard. Tentacruel take a lot from everyone beside Palkia, so sooner or later, he's going to die even though we can't avoid Toxic Spikes to be used the whole game.

    vs offense :

    It usually lead to Arceus vs Arceus indeed, the guy who played better (like prediction and shit) will be able to setup his own first. The most annoying part is when he's not CM, but SD, that's really tricky and cost me a lof of games. But well, we're talking about offense vs offense and Arceus, there is no way to deal with him perfectly :/

    Thank you for your time and rate, well appreciated.
  5. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,296
    Yeah, like Donkey said, you got problems with stall. The problem with stall is that while you may be able to take down one of the walls, the problem with stall is that it's a whole team of them. Stuff like Skarmory walls your entire team as long as it doesn't stay in on Fire Blast (and no sane Skarm user would stay in), since it can Toxic Ghostceus and not really care. Forretress screws with you a lot too. On the other side of the spectrum, you're really shaky against offense too, but since you're a good player I can trust you to get the momentum first. I really think a Darkrai would make a lot of things easier. Apart from like Blissey, Darkrai creams most of stall's threats. Something standard like NP / Dark Pulse / Dark Void / Focus Blast should work well enough, IMO.
  6. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    829
    The thing with heavy stall is that they got no pressure at all unless they can setup some layer of hazards. By playing around with Deo-s, ray and mewtwo, you can easily grab some free damage then finish off with Ghostceus. Indeed, if I dont predict right some switch or dont double when I have to, then I'm doomed, but until now it happened only a few times and that's what I'm seeking, I like taking risk and it always paid off. I dont find Heavy Stall as a bad matchup.
    However, Soft Stall is easily the worst matchup because of Genesect, Gira(-o) and Lugia (and some other walls too). Even if you predict all the time, no matter how good you're playing, if you kill someone, the opponent is going to bring Genesect and if he can grab a free U-turn, then it's over.

    Darkrai can solve this weakness vs Soft Stall, but I dont wanna remove Mewtwo (who's the only one we can remove anyway) for him, his gameply is too plain and boring, I dont find any fun in this. He also help vs MindCeus too but it cost a lot vs Offense and Bulky Off since Darkrai isn't that difficult to revenge kill. So yeah, I prefer losing to Soft Stall than BO+Offense :/

    Thanks for the rate.
  7. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Hey Go10, cool team! Pretty much agree with what Shrang and Donkey are saying. If there was someway to use Zekrom over Palkia that would be better, but then you are massively ScarfOgre weak so you'd probably have to shuffle the team around.

    A minor change that I think would be really helpful is to take 4 EVs from HP on Mewtwo and put them into Defense. This means that Genesect doesn't get an attack boost on him and thus can't OHKO with U-Turn. Most Genesect are physically based, so who cares if it gets a boosted Ice Beam.
  8. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    829
    Hi superstar,

    Yeah Softstall is incredibly difficult to defeat without changing a lot of things (like Mewtwo being LO +3 slot off and fitting MixKrom or something like that somewhere).

    Thanks for the tip !

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)