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BW UU Darmanation (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Heysup, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    DARMANATION

    [​IMG]

    Introduction


    After being #1 on the ladder for the majority of the round I kind of felt like it would be a waste to not post this team for others to use, see, and critique (/shameless bragging). It, like most of my teams, involves Spike stacking offense. I also came across a very useful algorithm for winning ladder matches and it works great against good players as well. Darmanitan lures specific counters into the match, and those Pokemon are easily destroyed by other Pokemon.



    At a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    In depth:


    [​IMG]

    Darmanitan (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    Role Summary

    If leading with entry hazards isn't a viable option, Darmanitan is usually the first thing my opponent sees. Darmanitan is so useful because it has very specific counter types: Bulky waters, bulky Rocks, Bulky/Flash Fires, and Snorlax. U-turn allows me to dent one of them and switch to my appropriate counter for that which usually ends up with something dead on my opponents side. See Rhyperior and Roserade's description for more details. If the opponent decides to let their Darmanitan counter go, I just sweep the opponent's team with Flare Blitz. Part 1 of my offensive cycle.

    Details

    Flare Blitz and U-turn are pretty straightforward. Earthquake lets me hit a predicted Chandelure or Rhyperior. Superpower lets me hit Snorlax and Chansey. Jolly is to outpace other Darmanitan.



    [​IMG]

    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 Def /

    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Head Smash / Stone Edge

    Role Summary

    Donphan is the most versatile Rapid Spin user in the tier simply because of his ability to check many physical threats and set up Stealth Rock. My team is not horribly weak to entry hazards, but since I have no set up sweeper I do prefer not having to play on a timer against effective stall teams. So to not make it a liability, Donphan's counters tend to be Water-type which Roserade can easily handle.

    Details

    EVs let me survive two CBPerior Earthquakes among other things. I can still 2HKO Mismagius with Head Smash, though Stone Edge is much safer.


    [​IMG]

    Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 232 HP / 100 Def / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Pain Split
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam

    Role Summary

    Bulky Froslass is almost on every team I use because its again so versatile. Having both Donphan and Froslass doing two jobs each is essential for any offensive team, four+ jobs in two Pokemon. Spin Blocking, Spiking, and generally checking any Ice or Fighting-types makes Froslass great. Froslass also shuts down opposing set up Pokemon such as Deoxys-D, Mew, Roserade, and various slow Stealth Rock users.

    Details

    Survives Stone Edge / Payback from Machamp with these EVs while still outpacing base 100s. Pain Split lets it heal up on big HP Pokemon like Snorlax or Chansey.


    [​IMG]

    Roserade (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sleep Powder
    - Rest

    Role Summary

    Roserade is part 2A of the offensive cycle. I can U-turn on the opposing Suicune, Blastoise, Milotic, Rhyperior, and many others and go to Roserade for a free attack. Sleep Powder makes sure Roserade is not walled by anything. If I can't capitalize with my 383 SpA Life Orb boosted STAB attacks, I can definitely shut something down. And the beauty about this situation is that gen 5 Sleep mechanics allow me to switch out and force a switch before the opponent attacks and keep the opponent permanently slept. Considering the opponent will be sending in a Fire-type or Steel-type into Roserade, Rhyperior can easily force the switch.

    Details

    Fast enough to outpace Adamant 85s. I'm thinking about making it slower and bulkier, but I'm not sure. Leaf Storm > Giga Drain to keep nailing counters on the switch. Rest is for reliable recovery, but I may just put Giga Drain there.



    [​IMG]

    Rhyperior (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Blast
    - Megahorn

    Role Summary

    Part 2B of my offensive cycle. If the opponent sends in a Rock-type, Fire-type, or Snorlax on Darmanitan, I U-turn to Rhyperior. This monster basically OHKOes all offensive Pokemon and some defensive Pokemon while it also 2HKOes most others. Rhyperior is strong enough to even 2HKO Hippowdon with Stealth Rock or Spikes. This makes Rhyperior also an excellent Pokemon to fuck over sandstorm teams. He makes a great counter for Stoutland and 1-2HKOes every member of the common sandstorm team. It also checks opposing Darmanitan. Hands down my team's MVP.

    Details

    Rock Blast is there simply to OHKO Focus Sash Zam and other Substitute users like Froslass. Other attacks are straightforward.



    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost

    Role Summary

    Zapdos is just the missing piece of the puzzle. Its main purpose is to take Earthquakes and Grass-type attacks. Carrying Thunderbolt is definitely an added advantage to having Zapdos and its sweep potential should not be ignored.

    Details

    HP Grass > Ice just so I don't have to risk switching into Rhyperior if I find myself against one. The rest of the attacks are straightforward.
    ____________

    So yea, I just want this team to be the best in can be. Even though it peaked #1, I still feel like I could improve it with your help. To aim your criticisms: I'm pretty weak to Alakazam and I sort of have trouble with a well-played bulky Mismagius.
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Son, I like this team but you can't honestly expect us regular users to properly rate this team? I mean you've peaked with this team for quite some time, so most of the suggestions provided would be worthless. Thats not to say I don't appreciate you posting this team, no far from it (Its hands down one of the best BW UU teams of all time)

    Still, I love a good challenge. My only suggestion to help check Alakazam would be to change your spread on Zapdos. A specially defensive spread with 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe and a leftovers will help you check Alakazam. You can still check most of the metagame, but you lose out on a ton of power and speed. Eh, I doubt this recommendation will end up helping much but I tried :P
  3. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    Absolutely incredible team and I'm not sure how to patch up your Alakazam weakness without removing part of its soul.. the only way really would be to bring in a dedicated special wall like Chansey/Snorlax/Milotic/Spiritomb over Zapdos.
  4. Cherub Agent

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    Great team as always, I also love the bulky Froslass + Donphan defensive core. Interesting to seea Modest nature on Roserade, I'm gonna have to try that too. Since you have Roserade to kill off all bulky waters, you could mabye try a Honchkrow over Zapdos? Still resists EQ/Grass, and can take out Zam/Missy (with prediction ugh). Personally on an offensive team like this though, I'd go with something like a CB Weavile to guarantee the OHKO with Pursuit, also outspeeding, even if they stay in. Nice one!
  5. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    Amazing team as always Heysup. I really don't have any suggestions as any changes for specific counters tend to prove detrimental to the team as a whole. May I ask what the speed on rhyperior is out speeding?
  6. BKC

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    If you're willing to try something new over Darmanitan, mixed Houndoom is the way to go. It keeps the fire typing but helps fix the main weaknesses you outlined, Alakazam / bulky Mismagius. You can bait a Psychic easily from the former, switch Doom in, and Sucker Punch it to hell; Missy is completely walled and Pursuited to death. Doom's ghost-trapping capabilities are also very helpful for Donphan's spinning, making Zapdos even tougher to deal with.

    Speaking of Zapdos, if you make the Houndoom > Darmanitan change, you lack a revenge killer, so consider Scarfing Zap, using U-turn over Roost. It abuses the hazards really well, doesn't have to worry about the SR weakness because Donphan's spins are practically guaranteed, and checks a ton of shit; the loss of power from Life Orb shouldn't be too big a deal because you've got multiple entry hazards.

    Just a few things to consider, great team and congrats on #1
  7. orbpom123

    orbpom123

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    You say you have problems with alakazam? I'm no expert but i think you should change your zapdos, i think this set would suit more then an offensive.


    Spcl Defense Zapdos
    Zapdos@Leftovers
    Calm& Pressure
    252 Hp 196 SpD 56 SpA 4 SpE
    Thunderbolt
    Roost
    Thunderwave
    Heat Wave

    Think something related to this would benefit, durable& still can deal good damage with some investment. 4 Speed Ev's to outspeed base 100 with no investment. Can really hit milotic and flying hard& check alakazam then roost off damage which will want him to switch out. Then on the switch Get a valuable paralyze to cripple DD sets. Again not an expert, but overall your team is good.
  8. fatty

    fatty
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    great team heysup, but like a lot of teams this round, it seems like you're weak to those powerful psychics and ghosts like alakazam, mismagius, and chandelure. in fact, you don't even have a resistance to said types, which can prove incredibly problematic in a metagame filled with those aforementioned mons. the team's synergy is amazing though, so i don't really wanna mess that up too much. the only suggestion i can come up with is putting a spd sableye over froslass, and then putting spikes > sleep powder on roserade. sableye allows you to retain the spin blocking prowess of froslass while being a fairly good check to mismagius and alakazam (not to mention all the other annoying shit sableye can pull off). continually, putting spikes on rade lets you keep the spike-stacking offense while sacrificing the ability to cripple something for the rest of the match.

    hope that helped even a tiny bit, good luck with the team!

    edit: i get bonus points for recommending sets that actually exist, unlike cm zapdos.
  9. King John

    King John

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    Awesome team, I must say. A minor change I'd suggest is to try Drill Run over Earthquake for Rhyperior if you fancy high critical hit ratios (Yes, Rhyperior learns Drill Run)
  10. ToF

    ToF
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    Other people have covered some decent fixes, but I'd like to say your team is really weak to Mixed Victini. Darma isn't coming in continuously on V-creates, and Donphan can be lured and killed by Grass Knot. Just something to watch out for. Houndoom as BKC said would remedy this a lot, while also providing a way to check those Psychic-types that the team struggles with. I like the team concept though, definitely interesting :)
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Houndoom would be great if I could use 7 Pokemon, but I can't sacrifice Darmanitan without keeping the offensive synergy. As an offensive team I'd never sacrifice offensive synergy for defensive.

    Making Zapdos specially defensive may help but Alakazam still hits it too damn hard. Calm Mind variants beat it easily.

    I'm currently testing Honchkrow but it's not working too well so far.
  12. Cherub Agent

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    just throwing out a suggestion here, but you could test swellow over zapdos. immune to EQ and "resists" grass, it outspeeds and KOs alakazam and missy. Not to mention it doesn't give a damn about bulky missy, being immune to shadow ball and not caring about WoW. As a bonus, as you very well know, swellow works great with hazard support. Only problem is frailty, but it CAN come in on shadow ball/grass knot for zam. It even has pursuit as a filler move to punish them if they switch
  13. kokoloko

    kokoloko genius cannot be contained
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    I used a really similar team concept in POs UU about a month back, but it used an offensive core of just Scarf Victini and LO Roserade (I generally stick to balanced playstyles as opposed to all out offense). It's such a great strategy to score easy kills, and you're executing it perfectly here.

    About the team, it looks particularly vulnerable to SubCM Raikou sweeps. Darmanitan won't be there forever considering Donphan doesn't Spin nearly as reliably as it did in Gen 4. Once he's gone both your other checks are 1-2hko'd by unboosted super-effective Hidden Powers. It also has enough space to set up (Zapdos, Froslass, -2 Roserade). Granted, chances are against most teams you're probably able to keep the offensive pressure at a high enough level that this isn't an issue, but against well built balanced teams aiming to get a Raikou sweep (say Donphan / Roserade / Slowbro / Mismagius / Snorlax / Raikou), you might have some trouble.

    My suggestion is to try to find something that can actually beat Alakazam and Raikou and use it over Zapdos (who seems to contribute the least to the team). The first thing that pops into my head is Bronzong, but unfortunately that's not UU here. I'd say use Registeel, but then you're trading the Ground immunity that Zapdos gives you for another Ground weakness. I'm not really too sure what you can do about it at this point, and you know Smogon's UU better than I do, so I'll leave you to figure it out.

    Also, 152 HP / 252 SAtk / 104 Spd Modest gives Roserade a 299 HP for LO and enough Speed to beat Adamant Honchkrow. This is the spread (with a bit more Speed over SAtk to beat things like defensive Zapdos) I used on the team I mentioned earlier and I never once missed the Speed.

    Anyway, I'm probably rambling at this point so I'll just say nice team, congrats on the peak and good luck in the future.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Wow, thanks for the awesome UU RMT, Heysup! Crazy team.

    I think Roar Zapdos would really benefit this team. It's more defensive, but it's not a set-up fodder and keeps the momentum of your team. Roar also complements very well with SR / Spikes support in wearing down the opposing team.

    The biggest benefit is that you have a defensive pivot against Water, Grass, and other Special mons that you may not yet want to risk your Roserade's health. By easing the load off of Roserade, you're enhancing Roserade's offensive capabilities. You also gain a great check to Alakazam, Raikou, and Mismagius.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spe | Calm
    ~ Discharge
    ~ HP Ice / HP Grass
    ~ Roar
    ~ Roost


    Another interesting option is Leech Seed > Rest on Roserade. Leech Seed would let Roserade annoy special walls that Roserade can't hurt, and works well with SR / Spikes support.

    fatty provides a great alternative, replacing Froslass for Sableye as your Spin-Blocker, and move Spikes over Roserade's Rest. Although, it's not ideal as what you had before in keeping the offensive, it does patch up the 2 weaknesses without sacrificing much momentum (Sableye is a stall-breaker after all).

    If you take fatty's suggestion you could then try Snorlax over Zapdos to deal with Mixed Victini. Snorlax provides awesome tanking powers for this team, and its offense is not shabby either. I know that the Rest Talk - Whirlwind is the "best" set, but a more offensive Snorlax may suit this team better.

    Snorlax (open)

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def | Adamant
    ~ Body Slam / Return / Double-Edge
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Curse
    ~ Substitute / Seed Bomb or EQ

    Substitute provides status protection, while Snorlax builds up Curses. You can also give it Seed Bomb to check Rhyperior. The EV spread is merely a skeleton - you may wish to make it more defensive if you wish.


    Thanks, again, for sharing your love (your team) with us!
  15. Scade

    Scade

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    Along the same lines, you might also consider adding Rotom-C onto your team, who, like Zapdos, is immune to ground and resistant to grass, but who also brings a handy water resistance to your team (taking the burden, as Pocket says, off your Roserade) and a 4x resistance to electric.

    A scarf set would work well as a defensive pivot:
    Rotom-C @ Choice Scarf
    Modest Nature
    4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    - Leaf Storm
    - Volt Switch
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Trick

    Modest nature helps it OHKO LO Alakazam with Leaf Storm nearly every time (98-115.9%), while still outrunning Modest Choice Scarf Chandelure, who it can whittle away at with Volt Switch. Shadow Ball can later be used to strike the final blow, and it also 2HKOs Mismagius, who can't do much against it. Volt Switch gives Rotom great synergy with U-Turn Darmanitan, since they cover each other's weaknesses fairly well, and lets you keep your momentum up while scouting your opponent's moves.
  16. nooblikeaboon

    nooblikeaboon

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    Yo!

    To fix up your weaknesses i would consider using Krookodile (Scarf) instead Donphan. Also keeps the offensive momentum of your team.

    You lose a Spinner but i doubt that your team gives Spikers many opportunities to set up (and you can just pursuit Froslass).

    Scarfhonchcrow is an alternative but i think Krooko will serve your purpose better.
  17. Rishidafishi

    Rishidafishi

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    I can understand why you're using roserade, but shaymin does the same sweeping job but better
  18. verbatim

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    Shaymin can't sleep things (which is much more valuable given gen five's sleep mechanics). Can you elaborate on your Alakazam/Mismagius problem, doesn't Darmanitan waste them?

    Also, I was able to get away with adamant/scarf when I ran Darmanitan. What does Jolly help you out speed (beyond Heracross)?
  19. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Will try to respond to all.

    Yea I guess it's a decent option but if I'm going to go more frail I think I'll probably need to be dark-type. I'll try it though.

    I'll try that Roserade spread, but I don't like being outpaced by Heracross / Nidoking. Obviously Raikou can cause some problems very late game, but I have two ways of beating it pretty reliably. If my Donphan is gone, then I would have sacrificed him to use Rapid Spin. This means Darmanitan will be healthy. If there is still Stealth Rock up, I have obviously not sacrificed Donphan yet, so I can still beat Raikou.

    Not a bad idea, but it doesn't actually reliably check Alakazam; LO Psychic still 2HKOes with Stealth Rock and Psyshock 2HKOes without.

    I probably wouldn't think about replacing Zapdos with this but I would definitely think about putting Rotom-C over Roserade which would allow me to use Snorlax. I'll test this. I'm leaning towards a Specs or Life Orb set though.

    Donphan is a defensive pivot, Stealth Rock set up, and Rapid Spinner. I can't sacrifice him to beat Alakazam.

    Yea but well-played ones can cause problems late game. Also Jolly > +2 Omastar, other Darmanitan, Scarf Cross, etc.
  20. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Have you considered Bad Ass's SpD Escavalier to replace Rhyperior? It would still counter Stoutland as well as Alakazam (be sure to have Pursuit). It brings an extra weakness to Fire and you have no Water-type, but you could switch out Zapdos there for one. Escavalier does after all 4x resist Grass and can take some stray Earthquakes too. A bulky Water-type can also take Earthquakes. CM Suicune should be able to handle most Snorlax, Rock and Fire types. If you are loathe to lose the power, you could equally use a CB Escavalier (should still survive one switch-in to Alakazam) and then fit in Ice Shard or play Darmanitan safely to kill Sash Alakazam.

    I don't know, just an idea.
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, I referenced fatty, but I actually suggested putting Spikes over Rest, not Sleep Powder. I am well aware of how effective sleep is on an offensive team ;d.

    Yea, noob of me to take away your EQ immunity, my b. What set would you use for offensive lax (or were you thinking of the Rest Talk set)? I don't think Snorlax would have problems setting up Curse, since it is really bulky, and can really pack a punch after a Curse or two.

    The only other route I can see with Lax is going CB, which will give you immediate power. Double-Edge essentially hits just as hard as CB Rhyperior's EQ, so you don't need to worry about physical behemoth, such as Hippowdon walling it.

    CBLax
    ~ Double-Edge
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Seed Bomb / Earthquake
    ~ Body Slam / Selfdestruct / Pursuit


    Body Slam provides clutch paralysis, which is also amazing on an offensive team. If you're not running Body Slam, you may possibly want to run enough Speed EVs to outpace Hippowdon, so it wont Slack Off-stall Lax (140 Spe EVs, :/)

    Good idea! Nice suggestion, Scade :d
  22. Cherub Agent

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    Spikes is illegal with Sleep Powder
  23. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Ok so I did some testing. Rotom-C is just so one-dimensional. I don't really love it. Snorlax is a great Pokemon but it doesn't fit in with my "kill before being killed" team style and it basically just delays me losing a bit.

    What I actually did succeed with was Swellow, surprisingly. It hits really hard, especially if I get hazards down. I used Endeavor in the last slot in case I get walled by Rhyperior, I can just drop it to really low HP so that Darmanitan can finish it off.
  24. Kaos

    Kaos

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    Originally I was gonna suggest ScarfDos, as it changes your team minimally and makes you just that much more solid against Zam. But I have to say, now that you mention it, I can't think of a more perfect replacement for Zapdos than Swellow. Keeps the Grass and Ground resist you need, and barely outspeeds Zam even without Scarf. Definitely use it, as despite its being walled by Rocks and Steels, it has U-turn to get around that and bring in Roserade and Darmanitan respectively.

    I would use Adamant over Jolly on Darmanitan. Even though its cool to be able to outspeed other Darmanitans, the decrease in power is substantial and as far as I know you don't gain anything else from have more speed since pretty much all Base 100 scarfers are running Speed Boosting natures.
  25. Cherub Agent

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    hehe it's always great when someone who peaks number one with a great team actually thinks you gave good advice :D

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