Darmanitan (Analysis)

#1

Darmanitan
Old thread written by reyscarface.
Official Pokemon site
Encourage is Sheer Force.


Status: Approved 3/3


[Overview]

<p>Darmanitan's incredible Attack stat, combined with an excellent HP and average Speed make Darmanitan a fearsome sweeper, able to punch holes through even the toughest walls. It has access to a satisfactory physical movepool, which, when coupled with its ability Sheer Force, really helps

  • Incredible Attack, with bad defenses balanced by great HP and decent Speed make Darmantian a fearsome sweeper.
  • Decent Physical movepool coupled by Encourage, which boosts its Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, really help Darmantian in battle.
  • Interesting support options on Encore, Yawn, Taunt, Roar, and Will-O-Wisp.
  • Weakness to Stealth Rock and all forms of entry hazards hinders the amount of switching Darmantian can do.
  • Its Speed is only decent, meaning it will more often than not be revenge killed.
[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: U-Turn
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Superpower / Earthquake
item: Life Orb / Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe

[set comments]

  • Sheer Force gives almost all these moves a 30% boost, as well as negating any Life Orb damage.
  • Band lets it hit like a truck, letting it 2HKO Bulky Waters like Vaporeon, Milotic, Burungeru, and also Dragon types like Garchomp, Salamence, and others, while Life Orb is for those who feel that switching attacks is to your advantage
  • Must be extremely careful of Stealth Rock and residual damage from Flare Blitz and weather, as it may kill Darmanitan pretty fast.
[additional comments]
  • Flare Blitz is your main move, as it will 2HKO even stuff that resists it, while U-Turn is an awesome move to scout with, and Rock Slide (which is better than Stone Edge due to the better Accuracy and basically same power because of Encourage) gives the infamous Rock/Earth coverage
  • Last spot is between Earthquake and Superpower. Superpower lets you hit Tyranitar and Heatran just like Earthquake, but also smacks Skarmory and levitators like Flygon which would otherwise switch in freely, but comes with the price of lowering Attack.
  • This set needs to watch out for revenge killers, as 95 base Speed isn't very much.
[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: U-Turn
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Superpower / Earthquake
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe

[set comments]

  • This set differentiates itself from the Physical Attacker stat by boosting Darmanitans's mediocre speed to high levels.
  • With a Choice Scarf Darmanitan loses some of its attacking prowess but becomes a great scout/revenge-killer
  • Flare Blitz and Rock Slide still get a free 30% boost.
[additional comments]


  • Because this set switches in and out far more often than the Physical Attacker set, Rapid Spin is a good idea.
  • Can be used on slow teams which need something to clean up in the end-game.
  • if used early-game, beware throwing around Earthquakes or Superpowers without scouting as that can provide many opportunities for opponents to set up.
[other options]

  • Yawn, Encore, and Will-O-Wisp can be used as fillers on some sets, but Darmanitan doesn't have the defenses to play with them on a formal set.
  • Fire Punch is useful as a filler if you hate Flare Blitz recoil, but it limits your coverage.
  • Nitro Charge is boosted by Sheer Force and the secondary effect is removed, rendering it useless.
  • Jolly can be used if you wish to outspeed max + Lucario and Suicune, but isn't very relevant in this metagame.
  • Belly Drum will let it destroy after a boost, but Darmantian will get revenge killed or die before it manages to use it often.
  • Rock Slide after an encourage boost has 98 base power to Stone Edge's 100, but Stone Edge's poor accuracy makes Rock Slide the best choice for most people.
[teammates and counters]
  • In terms of counters, Swampert, Kingdra, bulky Water Pokemon that can take boosted Flare Blitzes are your best options, especially ones with a recovery move.
  • Common revenge-killers (such as Randorosu, Salamence, Garchomp) can switch in after a KO, but must beware an incredibly powerful Flare Blitz.
  • Status is incredibly annoying to Darmanitan, slowing it down.
  • Things that enjoy a lure to kill Bulky Waters and stuff that resists Fire like being with Darmanitan, such as Metagross.
  • Ninetails is great as Sun boosts Flare Blitz power incredibly, letting it 2HKO things it usually wouldn't.
[Dream World]
  • Darmanitan gets Daruma Mode as its Dream World ability. It's a very interesting, although gimmick, ability, as it will transform Darmanitan into a completely different Pokemon when under 50% HP. This new Pokemon can abuse Special Attacks with ease, but the main problem is that usually Darmanitan will be hit by Super Effective moves that will knock it out, leaving no chance for Daruma Mode activation. In addition, Darmanitan is hit neutrally by all-but-two priority attack, and neither form has enough defenses to withstand them.
 
#2
So, why exactly are you running Jolly over Adamant on any of the sets? There aren't very many things that Jolly outruns that Adamant doesn't this generation, those things being Max+ Rotom-W, Max+ Lucario, Max+ Suicune, and Max (neutral natured) base 96-108s. All of these things are pretty rare I'd say.
 
#3
This probably doesn't matter too much, but I think it makes more sense to group the sets as

1. Choice Band / Life Orb
2. Choice Scarf

Choice Band and Life Orb are similar, it would be redundant to have two different 'set comments', just make one 'set comments' with a compare/contrast section. Scarf functions differently than the two, so it makes sense to make it its own set.
 
#4
So, why exactly are you running Jolly over Adamant on any of the sets? There aren't very many things that Jolly outruns that Adamant doesn't this generation, those things being Max+ Rotom-W, Max+ Lucario, Max+ Suicune, and Max (neutral natured) base 96-108s. All of these things are pretty rare I'd say.
I don't know, I just started editing this. Lucario seems like the only common thing in this meta there, so I'll probably change that.

This probably doesn't matter too much, but I think it makes more sense to group the sets as

1. Choice Band / Life Orb
2. Choice Scarf

Choice Band and Life Orb are similar, it would be redundant to have two different 'set comments', just make one 'set comments' with a compare/contrast section. Scarf functions differently than the two, so it makes sense to make it its own set.
Good idea. However, I was thinking of merging a Nitro Charge set with the LO set, so that might not work out exactly. Nitro Charge might be different enough to warrant its own set though, as LO is more scouty. Thoughts?

Edit: made Nitro Charge its own set
 

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#5
Rock slide has ~98 power because of encourage, it might be something worth saying. I would go out on a limb and say you could remove stone edge from other options as you don't want to rely on crits, but it's all up to you.

I think nitro charge is different enough to deserve it's own set, you would play nitro charge different from regular LO, it may have some different counters as it is trying to sweep, and different teamates, as it is a late game clean up and may like some different teamates to support it.
 
#7
Daruma Mode can be better than you think. I've used it successfully on a Sub+Pinch Berry set. Stick it in AC or something, I'd say.
Logs or it didn't happen.

Seriously though, what pinch berry? Daruma Mode has all of 55 Base Speed, so not even a Salac would boost than anywhere reasonable.


Also, I am still going through rey's writing, which I advise you to consider while commenting.
 
#9
Wait a minute, Encourage cancels out Nitro Charge's boost so wouldn't Flame Wheel be better? It's still powered by Encourage thanks to the burn rate so it's 90 vs 75
 
#10
Wait a minute, Encourage cancels out Nitro Charge's boost so wouldn't Flame Wheel be better? It's still powered by Encourage thanks to the burn rate so it's 90 vs 75
Encourage cancels secondary effects (Lava Plume's chance to burn, Rock Slides chance to flinch, Shadow Ball's chance to lower SpD etc...) not primary effects like Superpower's defense and attack lowering and Nitro Charge's speed increase.
 
#12
Encourage cancels secondary effects (Lava Plume's chance to burn, Rock Slides chance to flinch, Shadow Ball's chance to lower SpD etc...) not primary effects like Superpower's defense and attack lowering and Nitro Charge's speed increase.
I have tried Nitro charge Encourage Hihidaruma in-game, and encourege do cancel out the speed bost from Nitro charge and life orb recoil. So for some reason the game treats the speed boost from Nitro charge as a secondary effect.
 
#16
Sheer Force increases move power by 30%.

Life Orb needs to be main slash. You don't take the 10% on Encourage-boosted moves which makes it generally superior to Choice Band.
 
#17
Sheer Force increases move power by 30%.

Life Orb needs to be main slash. You don't take the 10% on Encourage-boosted moves which makes it generally superior to Choice Band.
Have you actually played with it? The lower boost means you miss out on some crucial 2HKOs.


Also, I'm pretty sure the Nitro Charge set is weaker by far than his other options. I'm moving it to AC for now. (and by now i mean tomorrow when i can think legibly)
 
#18
I have tried Nitro charge Encourage Hihidaruma in-game, and encourege do cancel out the speed bost from Nitro charge and life orb recoil. So for some reason the game treats the speed boost from Nitro charge as a secondary effect.
He speaks the truth. Tried in-game. Nitro charge doesn't have the speed boost from Encourage.
 
#19
He speaks the truth. Tried in-game. Nitro charge doesn't have the speed boost from Encourage.
I can confirm this too. You won't get speed boost on polemon that has sheer force when use Nitro charge.

Also, sheer force disable effect of red card and escape button too. Not only that, LO recoil is negated only when use move that has secondary effect(Fire punch, Flare bliz) but if use move that no secondary effect on opponent(EQ, Stone Edge, Super Power etc.) you will get LO recoil.
 
#23
Great Analysis, but Darmanitan does get Belly Drum! 140 attack coupled with +6 move and Sheer force can wreck through an unprepared team. A set like this should be included.

[SET]
name: Belly Drummer
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Belly Drum
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Rock Slide / Earthquake
item: Salac Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
 
#24
just a few nitpicks here

"Works well with many of the same Pokemon as the Physical Attacker. "

you say this but you didn't mention any teammates to the physical attacker.

"Because this set switches in and out far more often than the Physical Attacker set, Rapid Spin is a good idea to pre "

good idea, period.

"Status is incredibly annoying to Darmantian, slowing it down or reducing its attack."

being a fire type it's immune to burn so it's attack will never be reduced by status

"In addition, Darmantian is hit neutrally by all-but-one priority attack, and neither form has enough defenses to withstand them."

he resists both bullet punch and ice shard.

lastly, is it darmanitan or darmantian because you have the former in the title and the latter about everywhere else
 
#25
Is there any reason why Superpower is the preferred option on the first set and the secondary option on the second set?
Nope, should be Earthquake on both. fixing.

Great Analysis, but Darmanitan does get Belly Drum! 140 attack coupled with +6 move and Sheer force can wreck through an unprepared team. A set like this should be included.

[SET]
name: Belly Drummer
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Belly Drum
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Rock Slide / Earthquake
item: Salac Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Too much priority, leaving this in OO.
just a few nitpicks here

"Works well with many of the same Pokemon as the Physical Attacker. "

you say this but you didn't mention any teammates to the physical attacker.
Fixed
"Because this set switches in and out far more often than the Physical Attacker set, Rapid Spin is a good idea to pre "

good idea, period.
Fixed
being a fire type it's immune to burn so it's attack will never be reduced by status
Fixed

"In addition, Darmantian is hit neutrally by all-but-one priority attack, and neither form has enough defenses to withstand them."

he resists both bullet punch and ice shard.
Fixed

lastly, is it darmanitan or darmantian because you have the former in the title and the latter about everywhere else
Darmantian, typo in the title