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Darmanitan [B2W2 Revamp] [QC: 1/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Cygnis, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    "My name is Darmanitan! I burn jungles even though I am a gorilla, rawr!"
    [Overview]

    • Strongest viable pokemon you'll see in OU
    • Sheer Force makes its moves blow the roof off
    • Gliscor and Hippowdon fall to this Gorilla's throne
    • Speed that lets it outspeed a good portion of OU
    • Rain is common neutering its STAB
    • Stealth Rock weakness
    • Horrible Defenses
    • Flare Blitz recoil will make sure it can use it 4 times at max before fainting combined with sand will wear it down even more
    • Deadly Flare Blitz that are comparable to Reshiram's Sun-boosted Blue Flares
    • Nice coverage
    • Faces competition with Victini due to its bulk and 5 extra base speed
    • Burns stall into ash
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: Superpower / Rock Slide
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Fast with the same amount of power as Life Orb
    • Late-game sweeper
    • U-Turn lets you gain momentum, however since it is weak to all types of entry hazards, Superpower is used for coverage against Heatran and Tyranitar who other wise wall this set.
    • Flare Blitz has 160 Base Power after Sheer Force, almost as much as Victini's V-Create
    • Fire Punch is an amazing SPAM move to use mid- to late-game without needing to take recoil from Flare Blitz. It still hits 98 Base Power which is nice, especially with sun support
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Sun support should mainly be used to counter rain, not only because of the power. If rain wins, Darmanitan is much less powerful.
    • Hammer Arm is an interesting option due to its ability not to have a drop in speed. However, that will just cancel the speed from Choice Scarf so after using it watch out for base 100s.
    • Jolly Nature may be used over Adamant because of the ability to outspeed Adamant/Modest Salamence, Haxorus, Volcarona after recieving a boost but Adamant is prefered due to its power and Darmanitan really needs it.
    • Thundurus-T has an immunity to Earthquake and Volt Switch too. Paired with U-Turn, you can make a VoltTurn core.
    • Rapid Spin support and/or Magic Bounce is recommended because Darmanitan loses 25% of its health and is already losing ridiculous amounts of health using Flare Blitz
    • Dugtrio is the best teammate for the beast because it trap Tyranitar and Heatran and KOs both. Even better when you are eunning a sun team because Dugtrio is pretty much mandatory.
    • Darmanitan appreciates SR when using Fire Punch to clean later in the match
    • Rock slide is for coverage but Superpower is superior

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: U-turn / Rock Slide
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Darmanitan's most powerful set
    • Strongest set to ever be viable in OU and will remain in pokemon history
    • Flexibilty and power are combined into two. The LO + Sheer Force combo lets you bluff a choice item as well
    • Adamant is the most obvious nature to go with, making the savaged gorilla burn its home town
    • Jolly can be used to outspeed the nuetral Base 100 mark which is fairly common
    • U-Turn is there to keep momentum and hits Lati@s
    • Like before Superpower lets you hit Heatran and Tyranitar
    • Earthquake but suffers from LO damage and doesn't hit anything special
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Okay, so you think its power is still not satisfying, try sun support which allows it to pretty much OHKO everything bar Kingdra in OU
    • Rapid Spin and/or Magic Bounce
    • Sunny Day is viable to allow you aid to help win the weather wars but is better pulled off by Heatran
    • Here are some damage calculations that show the sheer force of the gorilla. All are in nuetral weather unless said so.
    • Choice Band is viable as it allows you to hit stuff even harder
    • Rock Slide has good coverage and can be used
    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>LO Flare Blitz vs 0/0 (Multiscale) Dragonite: 30.95% - 36.53</li>
    <li>LO Flare Blitz vs 0/0 Kingdra: 34.36% - 40.54%</li>
    <li>LO Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Jellicent: 43.06% - 50.74%</li>
    <li>LO Flare Blitz vs 252/0 Tyranitar: 43.56 - 51.73</li>
    <li>LO Flare Blitz vs 252/0 Starmie: 67.9% - 79.93%</li>
    </ul>

    • Note that most of these pokemon are annihilated with the viable Choice Band, sun support, or the appropriate coverage move. For example, Kingdra takes up to 90% damage with superpower an OHKO with CB showing how viable CB is. CB lets you gain a numerous amount of KOs while also helping it late-game sweep easier with fire punch.

    • Wish support from Blissey and Jirachi is nice to increase its longetivity
    • Latias is a good teammate. Same with Gastrodon to absorb water attacks aimed at Darmanitan from rain teams and Latias even has levitate to avoid Scarfed Landorus's Earthquake
    • Tailwind increases its speed to out speed a lot of threats, but Darmanitan will find a hard time to switch in due to how offensive B2W2 is.
    [Other Options]

    • SubSalac with Belly Drum is hard to pull off but with good support such as Dual Screens Latias + Memento, it can sweep teams but just stick with sets above because they are already too strong
    • Bulk Up
    • Good support movepool containing Encore, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic. Taunt is good on a Life Orb set but you most likely to SPAM devastating moves.
    • Sleep Talk used to counter Breloom
    • Zen Mode with bulk and multiple Sun-boosted Flare Blitz can make it go below 50% and with Leftovers you can outstall a lot of pokemon but not worth it
    [Checks and Counters]

    • You read all of this and are wondering "Why is it UU?! It should be Ubers!" Well, it suffers from numurous amounts of flaws.
    • Because of the sheer force of Darmanitan, countering it is by using Bulky DD Kingdra. It has super-effective water-STAB and resists its move but has to be careful of Superpower as it can KO with some some prior damage and SR
    • Checking is your best bet
      • CM Latias
      • Scarf Terrakion, Keldeo, Infernape, Landorus,Salamence, Kyurem-B, etc.
    • Rain is the key making the gorilla turn into a monkey
    • Paralysis also solves the problem
    • Heatran and Tyranitar but have to watch out for Dugtrio
    • Lati@s have to watch out for U-Turn
    • Defensive Rapid Spin Starmie
    • Focus Sash users
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Scarf plays differently from LO and CB, and frankly it's Darmanitan's best set. Remove Life Orb and Choice Band from the item row and re-name the set to Choice Scarf.

    Replace Superpower / Hammer Arm with Fire Punch - the latter offers an amazing spam move mid- to late-game without the need of taking ridiculous recoil from Flare Blitz. You will be amazed at the many Pokemon that dies to Fire Punch, a STAB move further augmented by Sheer Force and Sun. Dugtrio is pretty much mandatory on Sun teams anyways, so Superpower is unnecessary on Darmanitan, who spams its STAB or U-turn more often than not. Rock Slide comes in handy when you want to revenge-kill Dragonite and Gyarados.

    Emphasize Dugtrio support on Choice Scarf set, since removing Heatran / TTar is paramount in allowing Darmanitan to liberally spam its ridiculous STAB moves.

    Superpower does see use on a separate All-out attacker set @ Life Orb, but again you want both Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, imo. In this case you would replace U-turn for Superpower, since Darmanitan does not need to switch out as often as choiced sets.
  3. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Look, I'm not normally one to sing darmanitan's praises, but this is a MASSIVE understatement. Equipped with a LO or a CB, I'd likely be looking at a OHKO on those two. Darmanitan's flare blitz, even outside the sun, is the most powerful physical move you're going to see in OU (except for terrible players using Explosion Lickilicky and Giga Impact Slaking). It's worth mentioning that darmanitan is a good 10% more powerful than Victini, its most obvious rival.

    In fact, Darmanitan is so powerful that sun is not really necessary for its function. The reason why you need sun is largely that sun is not rain or sand - darmanitan really hates these weather conditions, especially rain. The fact that Flare Blitz then becomes such massive overkill is why I would make Fire Punch mandatory on every set (in addition to flare blitz). Darmanitan only needs coverage moves for Heatran and water types in the rain, really, so EQ, Superpower, or even Rock Slide is perfectly adequate on its own. Rock slide is handy, I suppose, for revenge killing gyarados and dragonite in unfavourable weather, but in sun flare blitz is adequate (71.29 - 84.25% to dragonite in the sun with SCARF - sufficient with SR for the most part, and if multiscale is up it's hopeless either way). You should probably slash those three moves together, and remove hammer arm.

    And please split the scarf set away from your current set.
  4. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    scarf set --> life orb (ac band) imo

    scarf is obviously one of the more effective sets since its like victini except more powerful and with a few cool things like rock slide and superpower. life orb is just amazing because it can lure in heatran + tyranitar (huge cockblocks for sun teams) with flare blitz + life orb hiding recoil so you can nail superpower them. this means dugtrio support isn't as necessary, and this is why i don't think band deserves a set :toast:
  5. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Did it, thanks.

    Holy crap your right! Screw sun support and CB this is boss

    252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 247-292 (58.8 - 69.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 250-294 (70.62 - 83.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    OMG thats a OHKO in sun. changed

    Well, band is what makes Darmanitan a deadly attacker. Idk, it might be moved. AC I guess but we'll see. Anyone else for band AC?
  6. tehy

    tehy

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    Gastrodon does not quadresist flare blitz, also has weak physical bulk so that
  7. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    On what tehy said: 252Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan (Neutral) Flare Blitz in Sun vs 252HP/0Def Storm Drain Gastrodon (Neutral): 64% - 76% (276 - 326 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Scarf Flare Blitz against SpDef Gastrodon in the sun.
  8. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Thanks, I changed the C&C.

    Now, tell me if this is the ultimate viable gimmick in the history of pokemon or not. Presenting Zen Mode Darmanitan!

    Darmanitan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Zen Mode
    EVs: 184 Def / 164 SAtk / 160 SDef
    Nature: Sassy
    Flare Blitz | Psychic | Fire Blast | Grass Knot / U-Turn

    Pretty cool but it struggles with rain so sun support is manditory

    EDIT: I tested it it works well on a sun team but not against other teams

    Darmanitan-Z causing problems http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou11788482
  9. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Your opponent played poorly, and had numerous opportunities to shut down Darmanitan-Z in the match (for instance Magnezone could have killed it with T-Bolt / Vaporeon could have killed it while fucking around with Wish etc etc). The set itself is bad and is getting a firm rejection from me.
  10. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    k thx, sux for z-mode he sucks, so that means there is still sub set right?
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Talked to ginganinja, and we agreed to slash Superpower with Rock Slide, since the former does have its uses for hitting Terrakion / Tyranitar / Politoed / Heatran / etc outside of sun / on the switch.

    Also change Jolly to Adamant on Scarf set. Since its scarfed its plenty fast already, and it wants as much Attack boost as it could get. AC mention Jolly so Darmanitan can outrun Scarf Rotom-W, +1 neutral base speed 100 mons like Volcarona, +1 Adamant Haxorus, and +1 Adamant Kyurem-Black. Overall, Adamant is the best nature, though.

    For All-Out Attacker, the move order should look like this:

    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Rock Slide / U-turn

    Remove Hammer Arm; it doesn't receive Sheer Force boost, and it lowers Darmanitan's decent Speed - there's nothing redeeming about it.
    AC mention Sunny Day, though, to aid in the weather war ;d

    EDIT: Obviously rejecting zen mode, since Darmanitan is better off spamming stupidly powerful Flare Blitz / Fire Punch anyways.
  12. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Thanks, made all your changes. Substitute went into AC of the All-Out Attacker set.
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    you might want to expand more on checks, especially heatran. Maybe faster stuff that can switch in on a single Flare Blitz from a CB/LO outside of sun as well;stuff like Starmie and Lati@s.

    Edit: Damn, that's quite a lot. I had thought it to be less, so sorry about that
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    If you want to mention those pokemon (they do o.k outside of U-Turn) mention that they need to invest heavily in bulk to withstand the hit since taking that much, especially with SR being a common battle condition, is waaay too much. There are prolly better checks out there tho.

    Also im not a fan of Substitute even in the AC of Darmanitan's All Out Attacker set. Darmanitan doesn't really have a massive movepool, but it has all the attacks it really wants, and Substitute doesn't help too much aside from "scouting a switch" I guess. Scouting the switch is all well and good but with Darmanitan, id honestly just screw the switch over with a Flare Blitz and have done with it. I also have a general aversion to Substitute on SR weak pokemon (Darmanitan doesn't have outstanding bulk or amazing resistances either I guess) especially one that takes so much recoil from Flare Blitz in the first place, heck, one of the best ways of dealing with Darmanitan is letting it kill itself with recoil, and Substitute really puts a timer on you. Other QC can weigh in and disagree with me here if they want, but personally I don't see a place for Substitute in AC>
  15. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    I really don't like the way the scarf set is going. First of all while fire punch is good, getting walled by heatran and tyranitar amongst others because you lack superpower is not. I always used darmanitan because it was not walled by these two unlike some other sun sweepers. Besides after its done flare blitzing it's usually going to be too weak to do any late game cleaning. Also I just hate U-turn on darmanitan. It's an extremely hazard weak pokemon and your doing very well if you can keep hazards off the field the whole match. Generally when you are lucky enough to get such a glass cannon onto the field you should be taking advantage of that opportunity and smashing stuff, not pussy footing around and scouting or "gaining momentum". Why bother when you have flare blitz and coverage options which will kill most switch ins.
    Overall I much prefer the scarf set currently on site.
  16. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Darmanitan is UU because of these flaws. U-Turn is good for keeping momentum and is pretty much a staple on all scarfers that get this move (V-Switch as well). Also if you read the other option, Heatran and Tyranitar wall the set which makes Dugtrio, possibly Gothitelle excellent teammates. Not only that but U-Turn pops Heatran's Air Balloon so you get the garunteed KO, Scarf T-Tar is still outsped. Also, you are locked into one move. This is why Superpower is more prefered in the All-Out Attacker set. Also, T-Tar is weak to U-Turn which is nice. With U-Turn, Lati@s are checked better as well. U-Turn also lets you switch to your Magic Bounce user if using one much easier while having damage kept in the process. However, if more people say U-Turn sucks, I will switch it.

    Removed substitute from AC. I am adding the damage calcs right now. also added new checks such as defensive rapid spin starmie and defensive CM Latias. thx
  17. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    I don't think it sucks, I just don't think it's necessary but I'm definitely in the minority in my opinions on U-turn. There's no way QC will have it as anything but a main option.
  18. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Slashed in Superpower with U-Turn
  19. Frog

    Frog

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    Rock slide is pretty useless unless under rain, but +1 dragonite will extremespeed anyways and it won't KO. Volcarona is more than hard enough by sheer force flare blitz. Slash rock slide as second slash with fire punch if at all.
  20. Ernesto

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    I'm not too familiar with Darmanitan in OU, but from what I know from UU and from what I can theorymon, U-turn is pretty necessary on the Scarf set, so if Superpower / Earthquake are gonna get a slash, they should be with Rock Slide. After all, you'll be spamming Flare Blitz / Fire Punch lategame and U-turn early and midgame, so the coverage move of choice will only be used on very specific situations.
    That said, to me, the set should look like this:

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Fire Punch
    move 3: U-turn (lowercase t)
    move 4: Rock Slide / Superpower (Earthquake in AC)
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant (Jolly in AC)
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Also, technically Flare Blitz's power is 156 after the SF boost, since it's a ~30% increase

    EDIT: The thing is, most stuff you'll wanna revenge with Rock Slide are hit hard enough by sun-boosted Flare Blitzes anyway, while you can't pass up the importance of U-turn against Heatran, Tyranitar, and Politoed—some of the best absorbers of Flare Blitz. Superpower definitely could be slashed for revenge killing purposes, just not with U-turn, imo.
  21. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    I think that Rock Slide is useful. With Sheer Force it hits 98 BP and can kill Most of the resists of Flare Blitz. fire Punch is an amazing mid SPAM move so I don't think switching it would be good.

    So I guess this is ready for QC checks

    EDIT: @Ernesto Hmmm, so you are disagreeing with King. Well, U-turn is still good, that is why it is slashed in. Rock Slide is too important for revenge killing and Superpower is good. I added U-Turn as primary and Superpower as secondary slash because they are both equally useful. Thanks for telling me. I was about to make Superpower the primary and u-turn the next one.
  22. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    rock slide's uses are limited. i'm up for moving it to ac, but for now just secondary slash it. superpower is far more important, so put superpower before rock slide on the scarf set pls. ac mention band since life orb + sheer force + superpower = luring common sun counters (think: tyranitar, heatran) without needing dugtrio. also put u-turn before rock slide as well on the all-out attacker set.



    • "You read all of this and are wondering "Why is it UU?! It should be Ubers!" Well, it suffers from numerous amounts of flaws."
    yah, you have to make this analysis point out darmanitan's nonexistent bulk and meh speed.


    i'm rather concerned.. but i hope you surprise me.


    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  23. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Okay. Made all the changes.

    EDIT: QC check #2 plz. i updated everything and i am ready to write :)
  24. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Anyone want to take over Darmanitan? I don't have time these days to finish it so I will only be reserving simple Revamps from now on like Xatu. :-)
  25. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Moving to L&O

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