Gen 3 Dealing with Curselax

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by KXB, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. KXB

    KXB

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    Hisup.

    Are there ways to deal with curselax without using a specific curselax counter like seed celebi, skarmory or boring weezing? I havent found a way to build teams without these pokes that can withstand snorlax. Of course, if lax carries sb it gets forced out by meta or ttar switch-ins most of the time but those 30% parahax seem to me like 50% and a crippled ddtar is completely useless. I hear ppl say "just pound it when it comes in". the point is that every team needs a safe switch-in that can actually hurt snorlax unless every pokemon lax would try to set up on runs specific moves like hypnosis on milotic. How do you handle this problem?

    Thank you for your comments.
  2. jrrrrrrr

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    You could try Perish Song, Taunt users (although these are rare in adv), Heracross, or just building your team with no reasonable way of letting it come in. Most sandstorm teams, for example, will give Curselax difficulty coming in. Choice Band Metagross also does a really good job. Sometimes Gengar can be awesome too because Curselax rarely uses Shadow Ball.

    It's just a really really good pokemon.
  3. gene

    gene GENE
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    tss teams destroy curselax. lax won't be able to recover his hp or set up against one at all. it shouldn't take long to wear it down if it keeps switching into something like zapdos. metagross and tyranitar (as long as you're not really relying on dd) can switch in pretty well and force it out if you have them.
  4. shrapn3l

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    ddtar works fine for scaring off snorlax in a pinch, but you don't want it to be your only good switchin to curselax, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

    beating snorlax early/midgame and beating lax as a last pokemon is like dealing with two separate threats. skarmory doesn't really beat snorlax because when snorlax is the last pokemon, skarmory cannot roar it out anymore and curse eventually beats it. last pokemon curselax can beat celebi too unless you have perish song or you land leech seed and start calm minding up before it gets too many curses in.

    forcing snorlax to rest is a good way to handle it, so things like toxic, leech seed, and roar+spikes are good ways to help deal with it in the midgame.

    since curselax is either going to have shadow ball or earthquake, jirachi, tyranitar, and metagross handle shadow ball lax, and gengar can handle eq lax with an appropriate moveset (perish song, taunt+wisp, hypnosis, focus punch, and explosion are all good choices, depending on the type of team you're using). however, not every jirachi/ttar/metagross set is effective at handling curselax in particular. superachi has trouble coming in on snorlax multiple times per game and you don't want it to get paralyzed, but a wishing calm mind set will destroy shadow ball snorlax and not give a shit about para or the light damage really. pretty much only cbtar/ddtar/subpunch tar are scaring snorlax because unboosted rock slide only does 36% or something like that, and barely does anything significant after a curse. mixtar (rock slide/hp grass/fire blast/pursuit) is a shit curselax counter. as for metagross, some snorlax will not be scared off by unboosted meteor mashes, so unless you're prepared to explode or you want to bank on lucky attack boosts with meteor mash, you might need a choice band if you need a truly reliable lax counter.

    it's also effective to deal with snorlax like you would with suicune: force it to rest and then send out something like cb heracross to kill it or force it out before it wakes up. even something like cbmence can be effective provided you DON'T let it curse more than ONCE before it goes to sleep, and you can predict the rest and get cbmence in on THAT TURN, but that's not a particularly reliable strategy.

    make it rest, and never give it a chance to set up. curselax is one of the reasons your teams should almost always have a phazer. if you want to use ddtar, you should have a metagross or a skarmory or something that you can send into curselax and force it out for the majority of the game until ddtar is ready to sweep. ddtar is best hidden until the lategame anyway, and it will benefit from spikes/metagross exploding on water types.

    so in short, here are the effective ways to deal with curselax early to midgame (and this all depends on its moveset, of course):
    skarmory, roarcune, metagross, cbtar/subpunch tar, defensive calm mind jirachi, gengar, plenty of leech seed, toxic, and/or will-o-wisps, spikes, etc. anything that will force it to switch or rest. sandstream certainly helps too, as it makes lax less reliable as a wall.

    and as for late game/last pokemon curselax:
    perish song, explosion, defensive cm celebi, defensive calm mind jirachi, metagross, subpunch/cb/dd tyranitar, taunt gengar, cb heracross, medicham, etc.

    weezing sucks. and whenever you see curselax, be wary of dugtrio/magneton/pursuit trappers like houndoom or tyranitar.
  5. KXB

    KXB

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    Cool. Thanks for this detailed explanation.*

    Curselax has no chance against tss teams? Thats one of my tss teams that loses to lax:*

    Ttar (pursuit/crunch/fb/hp grass)
    Forretress (spikes/rs/hp bug/boom)
    Pert (pump/ib/tox/protect)
    Blissey (toxic/wish/protect/seismic toss)
    Dugtrio
    Dd mence

    Even if I toxic lax so that it's forced to rest, there is very little I can do then (especially if it's got one or two curse boosts under its belt). I know this is not the best team but it looks quite solid in my view. Or is it a bad example for a tss team?
  6. Andeby

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    Roar on Pert would do wonders for you against Snorlax, as long as he`s not the last Pokemon alive on the enemy team (and I do agree with shrapn3l when he say most teams should have a phazer).

    Having something like a Leech Seed/Perish Song Celebi over Dugtrio would also probably be an improvement to your team - Both against Lax and overall.
  7. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Roar would definitely be a boon to the team. One of the issues that cause Snorlax to have trouble with TSS is being forced out while it is Resting. That leaves it inactive for 1-2 turns (depending on when you switched in), meaning that with all three Spikes layers down, it could end up losing half of its life by the time it wakes up.

    I also think not having Rock Slide on Tyranitar and Earthquake on Swampert does more harm than good. Even without a stat boost, these moves do more than solid damage on Snorlax when it tries to come in and force it to Rest early, which leads to the scenario I've just mentioned above.

    A couple of ideas would be using Wish Mence with Roar (with Milotic in the way, I think you're more likely to deal with it by forcing them to take Spikes damage than you would be likely to actually set up a Dragon Dance at any point in the game) or Taunt + WoW Gengar over Salamence. There's also Hypnosis and Explosion in a pinch (Explosion + Dugtrio would probably guarantee a kill) and you can't count out CB Aero to help clean things up.
  8. gene

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    change tar from special tar to any other kind of tar, replace forry with skarm, get eq over toxic on swampert, and replace dugtrio with anything else. then lax shouldn't be a problem.
  9. shrapn3l

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    the problem is, you can force snorlax to rest but you can't force it out after it gets even 1 curse. you have no phazer at all, and you don't have anything for last pokemon curselax. it seems like you've got your standard forretress stall team in the works there, and those teams tend to have defensive calm mind or perish song celebi to deal with snorlax. as i said, mixtar is a bad curselax counter. specialtar is even worse. if you change tyranitar or if you change forry to skarm you might have problems with spikes with the way the team currently functions since enemy forretress/skarm can set up on half of your team pretty easily and you aren't spinning if you get rid of pursuit and/or rapid spin (obviously). one of those two celebi sets over blissey seems to be the best bet, since you need dugtrio for helping against stall teams which your team can otherwise sort of never break though. also definitely put earthquake on swampert... and consider taunt+wisp gar in the last slot like umby suggested.
  10. Lord Liam

    Lord Liam

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    obi style hariyama because coolest it makes all the other fighting types jealous
  11. Psyshock

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    I don't know if this'll work, but I'm a player of Gen III:
    Basically, a gimmicky Crobat may work-It's really fast, so:
    Turn 1
    Crobat used Toxic! (Assuming Snorlax has Thick Fat not Immunity)
    Foe Snorlax used Curse
    Turn 2
    Crobat used Haze!
    Foe Snorlax (Either Curse or Attack, but Crobat can easily take non boosted)
    It could go on a Haze/Curse stall if your opponent is a noob. Toxic brings Snorlax down easily. However, Rest is on most Snorlax sets, so you could use Taunt if you predict Rest.
  12. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Most common Lax set according to usage stats-

    Snorlax @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Immunity (36.6 %) / Thick Fat (63.4 %)
    Nature: Adamant - EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SDef (56.6 %)
    Body Slam
    Rest
    Curse
    Shadow Ball

    Shadow Ball is easily the most common coverage move, it always has been.

    Anyway, one of the best solutions for last poke Lax - and Lax in general- is Cacturne (If you guys don't know how well it works you've missed out for several months), If Cacturne gets a Sub up ever Lax can do literally NOTHING to it, Lax gets SubSeed stalled without being able to touch it. Sand Veil allows you the opportunity to repeatedly Sub until you get the miss, but if you can get it in on an unboosted Lax you can take a hit and seed it straight off, Leftovers and Seed will give you more than enough HP to start spamming Sub, and Sub PP isn't an issue since between sand and seed Lax has to Rest fairly quick at which point you begin attacking with STAB or Focus Punch, and it can't stand up to both that and the residual damage.
  13. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Always? Idk about that. EQ has been popular for a while, since there were always other ways of dealing with Gengar and it's harder to be a Jirachi counter without Quake. It seems like Shadow Ball only became popular (moreso than before) recently.

    Sub Leech in general gives Snorlax a hard time, though it's poor play on the players if he decides to both
    A) Not attack during the initial Sub/Leech. If Cacturne switches in on a Snorlax, why would you NOT hit it with a +1 STAB? Not sure what EVs people are using, but that's most of Cacturne's life/risk of paralysis.
    B) Stay in while it is getting Leeched. Given that most things using Leech Seed are also using Substitute (or Recover), Snorlax has no business staying in in the first place. Sure that forces Snorlax out, but with point A in effect, it can just setup again and probably kill Cacturne the next time it tries the same tactic, if it didn't die already.

    In that sense, it'd make more sense to Leech with Celebi, who can switch in to and Snorlax and take much more punishment than a Cacturne and doesn't have to rely on Sand Veil, occasionally, to make itself work.
  14. pokedude7

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    How's about a Machamp or Makuhita with Cross Chop or Vital Throw? No one has recommended a Fighting Type to Counter Snorlax!

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