Death by Old Age - A 5th Gen. Uber Stall Team

[(makeup)]

Please bare wtih my, my computer is having problems displaying pictures. If one of the pictures in the RMT is wrong, don't hesitate to tell me.

Yes, it's 5th Gen.

Well, I havn't exactly been lattering this team, but it's been doing really well and I can honestly say it wins 80% of the time. This is a bit of an adaptation of a 4th gen team I've had but it's a lot better, I can honestly say. It's pretty sun-based too.

Teambuilding

So, It's a stall team. It's also sun-based too so I wanted to use Groudon for it's Stealth Rock abilities.

Next, I wanted more entry hazards. Toxic Spikes is the #1 priority and takes two turns, so I definatly needed those. Spikes would be fun too, and I need a spinner so TS won't destroy my team. With the awesome improvement of Sturdy, Forretress would fit all these roles.

So I have hazards, and a few weaknesses to cover, pretty much Grass, Fire, and Water. I also need a spinblocker and my first wall. Dududududuudududu GIRATINA!

I wanted another wall. Deoxys-D looked really good at the time and I'd never really used it so I decided to try it.

Deoxys-D wasn't working so well so I decided to switch to Xatu because of simular typing and Magic Mirror.

I wanted a special wall in Chansey because of the new Evolution Stone and Giratina covered it's only weakness. Problem was Groudon was my only way to get rid of Nottorei who can't be poisoned and Chansey can't kill it with Flamethrower, even in the sun. I decided just to use Flamethrower Blissey instead.

So now I want another wall. I just decided to chose Lugia because of it's new awesome ability and overall amazing stats.

I wanted a ghost and dark resist because of my pretty big weakness. Arceus had awesome overall bulk, access to recover, and perfect stat distribution.

Forretress (M) @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 SDef
Brave Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Yeah, it's Forretress. This guy always gets two layers of Toxic Spikes up and then some, whether it's at the begining or not. He also spins away other entry hazards, but that has become very uncommon nowadays thanks to Stealth Rock losing it's TM status. Gyro Ball is actually a very strong attack and hits Froslass and Weavile, which I've been seeing a lot more lately. He's a pretty reliable Dragon resist late game if he's not dead and helps this team a lot. He's not that interesting though.

Lugia @ Leftovers
Trait: Multi-Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Reflect

My personal favorite Lugia set. With the addition of Multi-Scale, Lugia can easily wall even Darkrai with recover as long as Toxic Spikes are up. Staying at full health is a must to half all damage, and Recover allows me to do that. Sadly, Roost is no longer a TM though so it's illegal with Multi-Scale, so Recover is the next best thing. Dragon Tail is the new phazing move and completely outclasses Whirlwind (except by maybe the 10% accuracy loss). It also does pretty good damage to dragons, even with a hindering nature. Ice Beam has amazing coverage and is a very good move on Lugia to beat Rayquaza, Salamence, Groudon, and the new Zekrom. Reflect makes even Stone Edge from Groudon very weak when coupled with Multi-Scale, and Groudon can be 3HKOd by Ice Beam factoring in Leftovers and 1 layer of Toxic Spikes. The EVs maximize that enormous HP to take hits from both sides, and 204 speed EVs outspeeds max speed Groudon, Kyogre, Lucario, and all those other base 90s. The rest is dumped into defense to balance out my defensive capiblities.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Softboiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic

People totally questioned Blissey's use in 5th gen due to Chansey "outclassing" it with Evolution Stone. It's total BS. Chansey hits 106 special attack, yeah, 106. Blissey gets a WAY better 186 as well as leftovers recovery. Flamethrower with Groudon's Drought ability will roast Nottorei as well as other random Steels who I can't Toxic. Toxic on a Toxic Spikes team may seem redundant, but it's my only way to deal with Lugia, Latias, Latios, and Ho-oh. Aromatherapy is so status, namely Toxic, doesn't rape my team or even attempt to. Softboiled is for the obvious recovery.

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

I love this set. It always gets Stealth Rock up and kills something. Stealth Rock hits all those stupid Flying types that Toxic Spikes never will, and stops Ho-oh's fun, which can really screw this team up if Giratina is gone. Earthquake is a 100 BP STAB move, why would I not have it? Like I mentioned earlier, Dragon Tail is the new stuff and gets rid of those annoying stat-boosters that stall teams hate. The thing I hate about it is it doesn't phaze through subs though. Fire Punch melts Nottorei and hits other random grasses like Jumpluff. I forgot where the EVs I from, I think I stole them from another RMT.

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

My status absorber, spin blocker, threat checker, and resister, all built into one. I seriously love this thing so much. Shadow Ball hits all those stupid Mewtwo, Magic Mirror hobos, and the Eon twins. Aura Sphere hits everything else, namely Arceus. Rest and Sleep Talk are a staple on a RestTalk set, so they're just there. Perfect coverage in two moves is really cool. The EVs are to take Physical hits really well, while Blissey takes the special ones. They also help me a lot against Shadow Claw from stupid Arceus. 504 HP is rediculous and it's Special Defense isn't too bad either. It also hits a nice 236 Special Attack which is pretty good without any investment.

Let's pretend there is a picture of a Choice Scarf here
Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty nature (+Spe, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Outrage

The revenge killer who doesn't care about Toxic Spikes. Palkia is my check to Darkrai, Reshiram, Zekrom, Salamence, Ononokusu, Kyogre, Arceus-steel, Nattorei, SDchomp, and more. Fire Blast is to melt Steel and Grass-types while Draco Meteor is my main attack. Thunder is the best way to hit Kyogre and can be useful if they somehow manage to keep rain up. Outrage is Blissy's favorite, and also does a lot of damage without weakening my attacking power like Draco Meteor does. The EVs and nature are to maximize speed and my more important attacking stat, while not weakening Outrage. Hasty over Naive to switch into Reshiram and Kyogre more easily.

The replicable one

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Perish Song
- Recover

Arceus provides a much needed Dark resist, as well as a useful Ghost resist. The main reason I chose him is because of his typing, but he has other tricks up his sleeve. First, he's the only Dark-type to get Recover (screw you Sableye). Also, he has easy access to any STAB move he wants in form of Judgement. Recover is the obvious recovery which is vital on any stall team, and works extremely well in conjuction with Toxic Spikes. Toxic is my second back up plan along with Blissey to hit things like Lugia and the Eon twins, who aren't affected by Toxic Spikes. Last, we have Perish Song. Lately, I've been faced 3-1 and almost about to win, when my opponent uses rest...Because Groudon is the only one that can cause damage, I usually lose in that spot. Perish Song cures this failiure and also causes more switches, go residual damage!

Well thanks for reading!

Small threat list:

- So annoying. How am I supposed to beat a 720 BST Pokemon with access to Swords Dance, three perfect coverage moves, and STAB priority? Giratina can pick it off but not a very good chance that's happening.

- I don't have much to deal with it. It can just rest away my Toxic and it resists everything except Earthquake and Judgement. It'll just kill Groudon and Arceus can't do anything to it.

- DD varaints are the worst, and Anti-Lead variants just suck. Lugia needs to be in Multi-Scale range to Dragon Tail it or pick it off with Ice Beam.

- Crap they always seem to switch out before I can nab to KO. Magic Mirror just sucks so much.

 

[(makeup)]

Posting to say I changed Forretress' set to a set I stole borrowed from Jibaku and added Perish Song on Arceus over Substitute so I don't lose to all those annoying RestTalk upperes.

 

[j99ubers]

Ok, just to quickly deal with the threatlist, Ditto can check both SD Arceus and DD Quaza and will help deal with alot of other offensive threats that your team might struggle to manage with otherwise (read CM Mewtwo and Darkrai). You seemed to state in the kyogre description that your team has problems with the bulky RestTalk ones since they can Rest off toxic maybe Zekrom could be an answer to these problems as Lightning strike always KO's Kyogre. If you want to keep Giratina I would recommend putting Will-O-Wisp on over Aura Sphere since burning Arceus will hurt it alot more than an Aura Sphere will. And finally you dont really have a safe switch in to SpecsOgre if Toxic Spikes aren't down(and you won't get them down every game) so maybe using Latias over Blissey to sponge the Special attacks could work. I know this seems like alot of changes but even implementing one or two of these should help remove the weaknesses you listed in the threat list.

 

[sharkz]

And finally you dont really have a safe switch in to SpecsOgre if Toxic Spikes aren't down(and you won't get them down every game) so maybe using Latias over Blissey to sponge the Special attacks could work.

I agreed with most of the things j99ubers said, except for this. Latias cannot switch in to Kyogre anymore due to Soul Dew being unavailable in Gen 5, so yeah.

Anyway, yeah, Specs Ogre will cut your team in to pieces, and it looks like a Scarf Palkia over Arceus would be a good addition. Scarf Palkia is the only Uber that can safely switch in to Specs Kyogre now that Latias doesnt have Soul Dew, so he can provide a good check to all Kyogre. Scarf Palkia can also easily check DD Ray, since it outspeeds even after a DD. SD Ray can also be handled by Lugia. Most Mono attackers in ubers with resttalk also lose to Palkia, so the loss of perish song won't be as devestating as you think it will be.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Hasty Nature (+spe, -def)
4 atk, 252 spatk, 252 spe

Spacial Rend
Thunder
Fire Blast
Outrage

Ok, SD Ray can also give you a fair bit of trouble. It can set up on Forry quite easily, and Giratina also cant do much to stop it from SDing. You might think Lugia can handle it, but Lugia is KOed after SR by +1 Outrage most of the time, meaning that it is not the most reliable of checks, and also cannot switch in. I think that giving Lugia a Timid Nature will help greatly. A Timid Natured Lugia can outspeed all SD Ray, as well as some other things like Zekrom and Reshiram, meaning Lugia can check more threats effectively. Bold Nature Lugia is meant to check DD Ray and stuff better, but if you take my suggestion of Scarf Palkia then DD Ray can already be handled. \

Finally, I'm not really sure why are you running max atk on Forretress. Forry's job isnt doing damage, its spinning and setting up hazards. Forry is also your only Dragon resist, so you would want it to have as much bulk as possible. A spread of 252 hp/4 def/252 spdef with a Careful Naturewould be much better. I also recommend Payback over Gyro Ball, since Forry often will have Gira-o and other ghosts switching in to spinblock, and with good prediciton you can punish them. Gyro Ball just doesnt do a lot since Giratina is quite slow, and many ubers are weak to Payback, allowing you to hit them harder.

GL

PS: I like Forry leads, I use one myself :P

 

[(makeup)]

Comments! <3

Ok, just to quickly deal with the threatlist, Ditto can check both SD Arceus and DD Quaza and will help deal with alot of other offensive threats that your team might struggle to manage with otherwise (read CM Mewtwo and Darkrai). You seemed to state in the kyogre description that your team has problems with the bulky RestTalk ones since they can Rest off toxic maybe Zekrom could be an answer to these problems as Lightning strike always KO's Kyogre. If you want to keep Giratina I would recommend putting Will-O-Wisp on over Aura Sphere since burning Arceus will hurt it alot more than an Aura Sphere will. And finally you dont really have a safe switch in to SpecsOgre if Toxic Spikes aren't down(and you won't get them down every game) so maybe using Latias over Blissey to sponge the Special attacks could work. I know this seems like alot of changes but even implementing one or two of these should help remove the weaknesses you listed in the threat list.

Ditto seems like a good suggestion, but actually now that I've added Perish song I can beat it (and phaze it until it's last). I agree with the Latias suggestion. I've used it before but I can't find a good set to abuse it's new capibilities. Any suggestions? I don't really like Zekrom because it's way too predictable and doesn't provide sufficient coverage even with it's STABs. I actually don't have much of a problem with DDquaza (mostly the anti-lead) as both Lugia and Groudon handle it, I just mentioned it because it can set up on so many things. To lessen that list, I've actually thought about using Dragon Pulse > Shadow Ball on Giratina. It still provides perfect coverage, STAB, and has an additional 10 base power as well as to ability to survive attacks from so many threats like DDQuaza and Zekrom before any boosts (Outrage does 78.6% - 92.9% with an Adamant nature and Life Orb). Thanks for the suggestion! I will definatley test Latias out and search for that golden set.

I agreed with most of the things j99ubers said, except for this. Latias cannot switch in to Kyogre anymore due to Soul Dew being unavailable in Gen 5, so yeah.

Anyway, yeah, Specs Ogre will cut your team in to pieces, and it looks like a Scarf Palkia over Arceus would be a good addition. Scarf Palkia is the only Uber that can safely switch in to Specs Kyogre now that Latias doesnt have Soul Dew, so he can provide a good check to all Kyogre. Scarf Palkia can also easily check DD Ray, since it outspeeds even after a DD. SD Ray can also be handled by Lugia. Most Mono attackers in ubers with resttalk also lose to Palkia, so the loss of perish song won't be as devestating as you think it will be.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Hasty Nature (+spe, -def)
4 atk, 252 spatk, 252 spe

Spacial Rend
Thunder
Fire Blast
Outrage

Ok, SD Ray can also give you a fair bit of trouble. It can set up on Forry quite easily, and Giratina also cant do much to stop it from SDing. You might think Lugia can handle it, but Lugia is KOed after SR by +1 Outrage most of the time, meaning that it is not the most reliable of checks, and also cannot switch in. I think that giving Lugia a Timid Nature will help greatly. A Timid Natured Lugia can outspeed all SD Ray, as well as some other things like Zekrom and Reshiram, meaning Lugia can check more threats effectively. Bold Nature Lugia is meant to check DD Ray and stuff better, but if you take my suggestion of Scarf Palkia then DD Ray can already be handled. \

Finally, I'm not really sure why are you running max atk on Forretress. Forry's job isnt doing damage, its spinning and setting up hazards. Forry is also your only Dragon resist, so you would want it to have as much bulk as possible. A spread of 252 hp/4 def/252 spdef with a Careful Naturewould be much better. I also recommend Payback over Gyro Ball, since Forry often will have Gira-o and other ghosts switching in to spinblock, and with good prediciton you can punish them. Gyro Ball just doesnt do a lot since Giratina is quite slow, and many ubers are weak to Payback, allowing you to hit them harder.

GL

PS: I like Forry leads, I use one myself :P

Umm, Lugia already outspeeds all Zekrom and Reshiram as well as Adamant Rayquaza (No one runs jolly on SD sets because of Extremespeed). As I said before, Groudon handles DD ray.

Actaully, the Forretress set was weird when I first saw it too. The reason I run it is because Gyro Ball does 170.5% - 200.8% to 0/0 Deoxys-S and 135.2% - 159.2% to 252/0 Deoxys-S. It also checks DDquaza quite nicely by doing 119.7% - 141% to standard +1 DDquaza. Gyro Ball does a yummy 49.7% - 58.5% to 196 speed Giratina-0 and virtually always 2HKOs. I don't really know if I need to change the Forretress set. Also, Too much bulk usaully gets Custap Berry to never activate.

Thanks for the comments =) Keep em coming!

 

[ZetoTarken]

I agreed with most of the things j99ubers said, except for this. Latias cannot switch in to Kyogre anymore due to Soul Dew being unavailable in Gen 5, so yeah.

Its legal in Dream World ladders as the item exists there's just no known way to get it at the moment. His team is obviously Dream World as Lugia has Multi-Scale.

 

[calze6]

Giratina needs dragon tail to deal with SD arceus. Phazing is what giratina is great at so put that in. Will-o-wisp is also a good move for it and I suggest either that, or shadow ball for the second attack. When groudon is not a lead, stone edge should be better to deal with ho-oh. You can't use arceus in that last spot btw as then you have no switch in to specs ogre. Use palkia instead.

 

[(makeup)]

Giratina needs dragon tail to deal with SD arceus. Phazing is what giratina is great at so put that in. Will-o-wisp is also a good move for it and I suggest either that, or shadow ball for the second attack. When groudon is not a lead, stone edge should be better to deal with ho-oh. You can't use arceus in that last spot btw as then you have no switch in to specs ogre. Use palkia instead.

I don't know about Dragon Tail as it only deals with Arceus once (+2 Shadow Claw 2HKOs). It might come in handy for other things but I already have two phazers anyway so idk if I will need it. I'll try it though. Will-o-Wisp is really redundant with Toxic Spikes and unnecissary, especially with that much defense.

I normally would use Stone Edge, but I need a way to deal with Nottorei. Ho-oh can kind of be a problem, but maybe I can just run it over Earthquake.

Any suggestions would be nice, thanks for the comments!

 

[Juice!]

Man I've read this like 3 times trying to find something to suggest as a change but this team looks really solid, dude. Although I have played ZERO 5th gen, so my advice probably isn't worth shit anyway. =P

I agree with whoever said putting Stone Edge on Groudon, lets you murder Ho-oh and actually do something to Lugia as well. Nattorei is still hit neutrally with Earthqauke, and Blissey can still Flamethrower it to death. If Fire Punch works then keep it, but no harm in at least testing it.

I agree with testing Dragon Tail on Giratina, as phazing on a restalker is nice since if Sleep Talk picks it, it ignores the negative priority, although I don't really know what Giratina is outspeeding anyway, heh. Definitely keep Shadow Ball over WoW though.

That's all I really see, sorry it's not much help. Good luck witht he team though man! =)

 

[Jibaku]

I don't have much to say atm, mainly because it's basically the same as classic stall and that other people have said stuff before me.

Umm, Lugia already outspeeds all Zekrom and Reshiram as well as Adamant Rayquaza (No one runs jolly on SD sets because of Extremespeed)

What the? Who told you? Rayquaza should always be running +Speed regardless of ExtremeSpeed or not, and looking at the DW Ubers statistics, Jolly SDRay is more common than Adamant.

If you aren't going to run Bold and invest everything in Defense, you should put up his Speed to outrun Garchomp, who can take down Lugia with SDed Stone Edges if it's faster.

Run 252 Def on Blissey. You don't want her to just fall flat to a Pursuit or something. The 252 HP doesn't help it much anyways.

Definitely have Stone Edge on Groudon. Life Orb Ho-Oh can cause a lot of mess to your team since it 3HKOes Giratina with Brave Bird.

Beware of Darkrai. If it gets a Nasty Plot in (with the aid of Wobb or Dark Void), it can OHKO the entire team with the exception of Blissey, who gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast.

Beware of Steel Arceus because it can hack down Groudon with Judgments while nobody else on the team could really touch it, barring Blissey crits or something.

Beware of Reshiram as it can 2HKO your entire team with Specs Blue Fire o_O. Blue Fire does 45%-53% to Giratina-A (2HKOed by Stealth Rock), and approximately 43%-51% to -your- Blissey (47-55 to 6/252). It OHKOes Lugia, Groudon, Forretress, and Arceus.

If you can find a spot for Scarf Palkia, it will help as all of these threats despise it. Scarf Palkia can 2HKO Steel Arceus in the sun, sponge a Blue Fire from Reshiram, and take on Darkrai.

 

[(makeup)]

@Jibaku
Thanks a lot for the rate! Stone Edge is better as you said and I've tested so that will be changed over Fire Punch. Blissy's EVs sound good too, I will change those. I guess I can run more speed on Lugia but if I did so I would have to run Timid to outspeed Garchomp which I don't like because Bold is very usefull to beat things like Groudon (with Reflect and Multiscale up Stone Edge does ~17%!) so I'm not sure about that but most Groudon don't run Jolly anyway so maybe I'll just go all-out in defense. Is there a certain spread you had in mind? 252/252 is a bit too cliche and I'm sure there is a more efficient spread. I agree with Scarfkia, it can kill Reshiram, Darkrai (Giratina doesn't mind Dark Void), and can deal with Arceus-steel in the sun with Fire Blast. Since Arceus is really only there for the synergy (dark resist) and Perish Song, I don't mind replacing it as the only dark threat is Darkrai anyway. It can also deal with Kyogre, right? Thanks for taking the time to rate a new Ubers player's team I really appreciate it and it helped a lot.

@Juice
Thanks for the kind words! Definatley Stone Edge > Fire Punch but idk bout Dragon Tail. This applies to everyone else suggesting Dragon Tail, too. I think it's a bit redundant having three phazers, 0 priority or not :/. Dragon Pulse > Shadow Ball for better neutral coverage (not paired with Aura Sphere, but Dragon Pulse hits everything Shadow Ball does at least neutrally and a lot more, plus it has higher base power and helps deal with Zekrom).

So, this thread is dying but I really need more help so MORE COMMENTS AND SUGGESTION PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

Also, I would like Perish Song somehow.

 

[j99ubers]

Ok, now that your not running Dark Arceus i would really recommend running Ghost Arceus over Giratina as a Spinblocker as it still provides similar bulk while having a far better movepool and the ability to outrun and cripple many physical threats with Will-O-Wisp. It also gets instant recovery and the ability to actually provide some offense for your team. I suppose another option for this team is Ho-Oh if you go with Ghost Arceus as Lugia will no longer be needed as a check to SD Arceus since Ghost Arceus does that fairly well, but of course its your choice as they are very similarly bulky and Lugia obviously is less SR weak and does physical walling significantly better but its just another option to consider, Also I'm not too sure why you want to fit perish song on this team as it isnt great at phazing compared to Roar/Whirlwind or Dragon Tail and waiting 3 turns for a phaze doesnt really seem useful when you can just phaze it turn 1. And speaking of phazing I'd recommend running roar/whirlwind over Dragon Tail on Lugia/ Groudon or Ghost Arceus if you choose to go that route to avoid getting absolutely destroyed by SubRecover Ho-Oh which at present your team has no answer for.

 

[(makeup)]

Ok, now that your not running Dark Arceus i would really recommend running Ghost Arceus over Giratina as a Spinblocker as it still provides similar bulk while having a far better movepool and the ability to outrun and cripple many physical threats with Will-O-Wisp. It also gets instant recovery and the ability to actually provide some offense for your team. I suppose another option for this team is Ho-Oh if you go with Ghost Arceus as Lugia will no longer be needed as a check to SD Arceus since Ghost Arceus does that fairly well, but of course its your choice as they are very similarly bulky and Lugia obviously is less SR weak and does physical walling significantly better but its just another option to consider, Also I'm not too sure why you want to fit perish song on this team as it isnt great at phazing compared to Roar/Whirlwind or Dragon Tail and waiting 3 turns for a phaze doesnt really seem useful when you can just phaze it turn 1. And speaking of phazing I'd recommend running roar/whirlwind over Dragon Tail on Lugia/ Groudon or Ghost Arceus if you choose to go that route to avoid getting absolutely destroyed by SubRecover Ho-Oh which at present your team has no answer for.

The reason I have Perish Song is the beat those Rest Talk stat uppers. I can't do anything to them as they Rest away Toxic, and if I keep phazing them I'll have to deal with them when they are last. With Perish Song, I can kill them because they can't switch, rather than losing due to my lack or raw power. I don't think Ghost Arceus is really necissary as it doesn't really check SD Arceus (Shadow Claw). Lugia is much better than Ho-oh IMO because of it's higher speed and defense (this is a stall team, I'm not aiming for raw power). I agree with Whirlwind on Lugia though. I think Roar on Groudon is a bit unnecisary just for Ho-oh because I can deal with some of them with Stone Edge and Dragon Tail actually does good damage since Groudon runs some attack evs (and has base 130 attack). Whirlwind will be changed though on Lugia (it's so minor I don't really need to bother testing it).

About Ghost Arceus, it has the same Defenses as Giratina but I don't think I can pass up that herculean 150 HP. 120 is good but it's no 150 (seriously, 504 HP is HUGE). I also like Giratina's typing which allows it to check Ho-oh and it's my only Fire resist. Thanks for the suggestion but I think Giratina would be a better choice for a spinblocker. I might test Arceus though because I REALLY want Perish Song.