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Death. Destruction. Stall. (OU RMT)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AOPSUser, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,586
    Team at a glance:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I really wish I could say something special about this team. But, the truth is, I just randomly threw it together. And, to my astonishment, it actually WORKS!

    In depth:

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -U-Turn
    -Stone Edge

    Landorus-Therian serves the purpose of lead and momentum-grabber on this team. Unless the opponent is using a Pokemon that they are likely to lead with that can OHKO Landorus-T, I always lead with him to get off the Rocks. Despite being EVed very defensively, it is offensively no slouch, getting many important KOs, like Stone Edge's guaranteed OHKO on Salamence, assuming it switched into Salamence and not the other way around, and guaranteed 2HKOs on offensive Garchomp with Earthquake, and an OHKO on most Volcarona with Earthquake after Stealth Rock. U-Turn is used to grab momentum, which can be very important in a pinch.
    Landorus-T has some shortcomings, such as its lack of offensive presence in certain instances (Ferrothorn), its lack of speed, and its huge weakness to Ice, as well as a weakness to Water. However, these shortcomings are generally made up for by its teammates.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    -Protect
    -Leech Seed
    -Spikes
    -Power Whip

    Ferrothorn is a major wall on this team. Many games have been won by Ferrothorn, simply because I slowly wore down their one Pokemon that could kill Ferrothorn, and they forfeited. Ferrothorn's typing is a godsend, and Leech Seed and Protect further help it, by allowing it to wear down wallbreakers for a couple turns and switching out, which passes Leech Seed to whatever I switch in. Leech Seed will eventually beat major threats like Heatran and Infernape if I get it on them every time they switch in. I also use Spikes to wear down opponents on the switch, for even more residual damage. In many games, I am able to set up three layers of Spikes, reducing most Pokemon to 62.5% on switch-in. Iron Barbs stacks even more damage, and it really punishes people trying to defeat Ferrothorn with contact moves, like Superpower.
    Ferrothorn has few weaknesses, and his Fire weakness is covered by half of his teammates. It can even live some weak Fire-type attacks if it needs to, like Jirachi's Fire Punch (which does about 50-60%). (I once had a Jirachi try to paraflinch me. Needless to say, the results were horrible for Jirachi.) I will almost always try to keep Ferrothorn at top health, and thanks to Leech Seed, I almost always succeed.

    [​IMG]
    Latias
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    -Calm Mind
    -Roost
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock

    Latias is my special sponge. She can also act as a special sweeper, which works out more often than not, thanks to its bulk and speed. Calm Mind is my boosting move of choice, and it works wonders against any special attackers--at +3, it can easily take two Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Balls. I use a semi-offensive version to not lose the bulk, but gain speed in the meantime. The speed is really handy against Pokemon like non-Scarf Terrakion, Garchomp, Salamence, Hydreigon, Haxorus, and certain Scarfed Pokemon. Opponents never suspect max speed Latias, so I get those surprise revenge kills a lot. Latias also easily sets up against most Special attackers that lack Toxic, like Politoed, Heatran, Alakazam, Keldeo, and even some Gengar (Assuming I switch in on either a KO or Focus Blast). Letting Latias set up Calm Minds is usually the last mistake an opponent makes before they lose.
    Despite all its qualities, Latias still has a lot of weaknesses. Specs Gengar beats it unless it already has boosts, Scarf Terrakion, Garchomp, Salamence, or Haxorus can easily revenge kill her. Mamoswine is also a huge threat, doing about 55-60% with Ice Shard. Latias's main weaknesses are Ice and Dragon, because there are strong physical attackers of those types. She also doesn't like Pursuit, so I usually have to watch out for Scizor or Tyranitar. However, her teammates handle her problems well.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel
    Ability: Liquid Ooze
    Nature: Bold
    Item: Black Sludge
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic
    -Scald
    -Protect

    Tentacruel is my other special sponge, and it is very effective in stopping Special sweeps, albeit at the cost of its own life. It hard counters Volcarona and defeats Venusaur (or weakens it into KO range for Breloom's Mach Punch) with Liquid Ooze. Volcarona is defeated by Toxic, as it can't do much damage until +3 or +4, and if it tries to use Giga Drain Liquid Ooze kills it. Venusaur typically lose about 50% of their health if they use Giga Drain on Tentacruel and KO it, letting Breloom get the revenge kill. Ferrothorn also doesn't like facing Tentacruel, since if it tries to Leech Seed it will lose about half of its health by the time Tentacruel is dead. It also serves as a Rapid Spinner, which is handy, since I have to do a lot of switching. Hazards don't really affect my team that much though. Ironically, Tentacruel takes the most damage from a full set of entry hazards.
    Tentacruel does have limits though. It cannot stomach strong Earthquakes, and will almost always die against Mamoswine, +1 Dragonite, +1 Salamence, etc. In those cases, Toxic is nice to leave a lasting impression, but in most cases I avoid those kind of matchups. Tentacruel also can't stand strong Psychic moves, but I have Latias for that.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Spore
    -Mach Punch
    -Bullet Seed
    -Focus Punch

    Breloom is my late-game cleaner, as well as a sleeper. Late in the game, I can simply click Mach Punch and wait for my opponent to die. Earlier on, I can use Spore to put an opponent to sleep, and then focus Punch something. Most Pokemon are killed or severely damaged by Focus Punch: Skarmory takes 60%. Bullet Seed can kill Pokemon that I can't kill with Focus Punch, like Jellicent, but I only use it when I am sure it will KO, as I can't afford to let Breloom take a hit. Mach Punch can also revenge kill, doing about 30% to most offensive Pokemon that resist it (Thundurus-T, Venusaur, Volcarona, etc.), and absolutely murdering things weak to it (OHKOs Hydreigon, OHKOs -1 Cloyster, does about 70% to -0 Cloyster, massacres Heatran, etc.). After getting hazards up and forcing switches, Breloom can come out and clean up.
    Breloom can't OHKO stuff with Mach Punch, it can only clean up. Additionally, if I try to kill sleeping Pokemon, they might wake up after one turn, which can kill Breloom on the spot. Breloom also takes quite a bit of residual damage throughout the game. It also can't get past a lot of Flying-types, unless they are weakened (in some cases, significantly). Fortunately, Breloom is not my entire offense.

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    Item: Choice Specs
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Earth Power
    -Fire Blast
    -U-Turn

    Hydreigon is a smasher and a wallbreaker. In most cases, I can just click Draco Meteor and watch something die. In some cases, if I predict Ferrothorn or Jirachi coming in, I click Fire Blast instead. In the late-game, Dark Pulse can clean up the game very well. There's not much that can take the Draco Meteor, even Blissey takes about 30% and is subsequently left helpless to Breloom, which I switch in, forcing it out. Ferrothorn can be similarly chipped down, unless I predict it and send a Fire Blast at it. My hazards and Hydreigon together soften up opponents for Breloom to finish, although a lot of times after a few Draco Meteors, there's not much of the opponent left for Breloom to finish.
    Hydreigon is a hit-and-run Pokemon. But, some things just stop Hydreigon cold, like Blissey and Heatran. If I predict them, I can U-Turn out, but most of the time those Pokemon get a free switch-in. Also, if I mispredict, I can end up giving a major threat a free switch-in and forcing myself out, which can be disastrous. Still, I usually do end up clicking Draco Meteor, and then only Blissey, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Heatran can stop me.

    Threats to this team:
    -Volcarona (if it gets enough boosts and I don't have hazards)
    -Baton pass chains (unless they pass purely Speed)
    -Venusaur (if I don't have hazards, if it has Solarbeam, if it doesn't use Giga Drain on Tentacruel
    -Mamoswine (if Ferrothorn is weakened or dead)
    -Scarfed Dragons, especially Scarf Moxiemence (if Ferrothorn is very weak or dead)
    -Many surprise sets.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  2. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus king of games
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    724
    Hello there,

    Nice team. Getting right into it, I feel you should use Starmie over your Tentacruel. Tentacruel, while great on rain teams, isn't very good outside of them. It may be great for you if you were to face one, but if you don't, it'll end up being deadweight, I feel. Starmie works well vs most weathers (not Sun) and with Recover, it can stick around much longer than Tentacruel can. Also, with Natural Cure, it can shake off any status upon switching out. Also, from what I noticed, this team is on the slow side, so Starmie will bring some much needed speed to this team. With addition of Starmie, Mamoswine becomes somewhat easier to deal with since it isn't weak to Ground type attacks. Back to the slowness of the team issue, I think you replace Breloom with a Choice Scarf Terrakion. While you'll lose a powerful priority user in Breloom, you gain a powerful revenge killer and a late game cleaner (if the opponent's team has taken enough damage for that to happen). Not only that, but you gain something that can deal with the biggest threat to the team, Volcarona. While it doesn't take its hits too well, Terrakion can come in as it sets up once and proceed to kill it or force it out. Also, Terrakion outspeeds most Choice Scarf Dragons (bar Lati@s but those are walled by Ferrothorn anyways) and can proceed to knock them out with Stone Edge if its Salamence or Close Combat against a weakened Garchomp. Lastly, a few changes with your Hydreigon; Modest nature and Focus Blast > Dark Pulse. I recommend Modest > Hasty because U-turn isn't really going to be doing anything to an opponent, so lowering your base 90 Defense stat to boost it seems unnecessary. Also, Hydreigon doesn't need to be all that high in speed. At 324, it's not really outspeeding anything that it wouldn't with Modest. Plus, your attacks will be doing more which will it allow it to wallbreak even better than before. Now Focus Blast > Dark Pulse.. From what I've seen, Dark Pulse really doesn't hit anything that Draco Meteor or Fire Blast doesn't hit hard bar Jellicent, but Latias sets up on that. Focus Blast, while shaky in accuracy, hits Heatran for a heavy hit as well as Tyranitar. You sacrifice a fully accurate move, but your moveset becomes more efficient, hitting more opposing Pokemon for neutral or super-effective damage. Anyways, with this rate said, good luck!

    Sets (open)

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Hydreigon
    Hasty --> Modest
    Dark Pulse --> Focus Blast
  3. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,586
    I see that you have a lot of points. I'll try out the changes, see if they end up working. My concerns are, though:

    -Tentacruel is great against all kinds of teams. In particular, it is my contingency plan against Volcarona and Venusaur sweeps. If I replace it with Starmie, I may end up with a Volcarona problem, since all I have against it are Landorus-T and Terrakion. If Volcarona gets lucky, if it's Sashed and a lead, if it has Giga Drain, there goes Terrakion. Landorus-T also can't take more than one +0 Fire Blasts in Sun, which is a problem if I need to switch it in. Terrakion also can't really switch into boosted Volcarona, and if Volcarona gets more than one boost, Terrakion can't take its Fire Blasts:
    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sun: 430-506 (132.71 - 156.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    In addition, if I get rid of Tentacruel and Breloom, I leave myself very open to a Venusaur sweep. My current plan is to use Liquid Ooze to bait the Giga Drain and either stall it to death from Life Orb, or Mach Punch it with Breloom. It's not the best plan out there, but it works about 70% of the time. But, standard offensive Venusaur outspeeds Scarf Terrakion in Sun, so if it manages to get off a Growth boost, it can basically sweep (Latias has a good chance of being OHKOed by a LO +2 Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock). Also, Starmie can't really switch into Mamoswine, since most Mamoswine I see are Sash lead Mamoswine. Starmie takes 58-69% from Earthquake.
    -Against Scarfed Dragons I can either use Landorus-T or Ferrothorn to stop them. Breloom's Mach Punch can finish off a weakened Dragon, but I prefer not to leave it to Breloom. With the Scarf, they are easier to predict around, and I can switch around to force them out and hopefully stack hazards. Landorus-T already 2HKOs standard Garchomp and OHKOs offensive Salamence and Dragonite (after SR).
    -I don't generally like to use low accuracy moves. I would NEVER consider putting Focus Blast on ANYTHING, even to save my life. Although Focus Blast gives more coverage, I find that Hydreigon is a hit-and-run type of Pokemon: I use one move, then switch out. I would very much consider using Earth Power over Dark Pulse though, it takes care of non-Balloon Heatran (Latias can set up on non-Toxic Heatran, and can break its Balloon at the very least), and Ferrothorn and Landorus-T already handle Tyranitar somewhat well. Low-accuracy is another reason I'm not keen on switching to Terrakion.
    -Tentacruel's status allows me to at least stall out something. I've stopped sweeps with it, because although I let the opponent set up, alternating switches and Protects makes them die to Toxic before they do much damage.
    -Breloom's Spore and Focus Punch are deadly-they can take out many walls like Skarmory, Donphan, Ferrothorn, etc, that I might not be able to get past otherwise. Also, if I Spore a switch-in (like Venusaur), I could potentially save the battle.

    Your suggestions are nice, and I'll try them out, but I'm hesitant to make my team even MORE weak to Sun than it already is.
  4. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,586
    Well I tested those suggestions.

    Starmie:

    I mostly had one problem with Starmie-IT DIES TOO MUCH. Recover is nice but useless when everything is doing 70% to you or more. As a result, I end up with a decision: If I Spin, Starmie dies. I've never really been too desperate to spin, since most of my team doesn't really care about hazards

    Tentacruel worked for me because it could beat Volcarona, and in general, check sun teams, somewhat easily. Without it, I have been swept by several Venusaur.

    The lack of Toxic also hurts, and relying on Terrakion to kill Volcarona is basically relying on three things: that Rock Slide hits, that Volcarona isn't sashed, and that it doesn't have Giga Drain.

    Terrakion:

    Terrakion offers tons of power at the loss of accuracy. Most of the time I end up relying on Stone Edge and hoping it hits, because too many Pokemon on the opposing team resist Close Combat. Terrakion also dies horribly to Scizor, which is really a problem considering that Tentacruel is gone-I lost one of my best Swords Dance Scizor checks. I have been swept by SD Scizor 4 times on 5 encounters. Breloom was at least a check to Scizor, since it outspeeds and has priority.

    I also lost a Spore user, which is really big for my team. I used Breloom to help incapacitate walls, and then throw out a Focus Punch or two. Focus Punch even 2HKOed Physically defensive Skarmory, dealing 55% minimum, while Terrakion's Close Combat is barely a 3HKO after Stealth Rock.

    Hydreigon:

    So far these changes have been really working out. The loss of Dark Pulse wasn't as much as the gain of Earth Power, which allows me to reliably beat Heatran. Modest also gives a lot of power, and the speed only matters against things like Haxorus, which I haven't faced that much.

    In the end, though, I want to see some feedback from the community about the first two changes, the last one is going in.
  5. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,833
    You should probably go with roar over psyshock on Latias. Psyshock is primarily used to win CM wars, but roar essentially does the same thing but it was some great interaction with entry hazards. you can even get a nice matchup to force them to switch multiple times.

    Additionally, Substitute with Toxic is primarily used on Tentacruel to be able to spinblock against Jellicent. jellicent is the main spinblocker on rain teams, so you can afford to run substitute to beat that. It also helps against ferrothorn which is another popular rain pokemon [to dodge some power whips to fish for more scald burns]. Also make it a timid nature so you can outspeed adamant mamoswines.

    lastly, but most importantly, I think you should just replace breloom. If you look at what your team is weak against, breloom only makes it easier for that weakness to be exposed. Set up sweepers in general provide the biggest problem to your team. If you replace breloom with ditto you force your opponent to risk setting up and get ditto'd or not set up at all making that threat more manageable.

    Hope I helped, and good luck with your team!

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