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Deconstructing the first-generation Pokemon universe

Discussion in 'Congregation of the Masses' started by Kikuichimonji, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. ChaosNebula

    ChaosNebula

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    Also Cerulean Cave had super strong pokemon. Why is that? Maybe Mewtwo trained them?
    Perhaps a genetic thing, that allows them to be super strong? What keeps Mewtwo restrained? He could just walk out the hole and kill the guard. I don't think that's hard.

    Referring to the war, wouldn't there be any mention of the war in the entire Kanto region?

    I do agree with the genderless pokemon could breed in their own way, as well as Phione evolving.

    Also the person who guarded the Cerulean Cave, could have had potential access to the cave as well. Which leads to my next question. What happened to the cave?
    Water submerged it? That theory could be used, as inside the cave water was filled in. Although it doesn't explain if the user couldn't just dive into the water, and enter the cave. Although dive wasn't introduced wouldn't it be possible to dive in, if the Hohen region introduced it?

    Also there is no mention of Johto or Kanto in the Hoenn region. Also what's up with the little rocks blocking up the sea? In the Pokemon Universe, there is rocks blocking the ocean (For obvious reason, going any further would glitch up the game.) But, what would it lead to?
  2. Xaqwais

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    That's a good point. Why do Pokemon strategically get stronger depending on what part of your journey you're on?

    Is it just that stronger trainers go towards stronger gym leaders and all weaker Pokemon get picked off before you get there?
  3. ChaosNebula

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    Or they get "muscle." They obtain strength from experience. Just like human trains to be stronger. Same point, to pokemon. The more exercise they get the more power they get. If they fight a weak pokemon obviously they won't get much work done. But fighting a strong one? Oh hell yes the will get some exercise.
  4. Xaqwais

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    That still doesn't really explain to me why a Level 16 Pidgey never migrates to other suitable Pidgey habitats for weaker and easier prey... Do we just ignore the fact that Pokemon just happen to get stronger or is there an explanation?
  5. Rediamond

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    Why Mewtwo doesen't just walk out is a good question. I think it could, if it chose to do so. I have an explanation, but it requires the First Movie, which is not cannon.

    But, the explanation would be the guards aren't keeping Mewtwo in: they keep humans out. The super powerful Pokemon would be the clone army that Mewtwo created, and Mewtwo made it very clear in the First Movie that it can A) Hypnotise humans and B) Doesn't bother with weak trainers. I think it is entirely possible that the guards in front, the brutality of the cave, and the strength of the Pokemon inside would be tests for anything that wanted to fight it. It could leave, but actually challenging a trainer is beneath it, so it chooses to wait for someone with the power to beat the most powerful of human trainers to come to it.

    Please note that there is absolutely nothing cannon in that explanation at all, but I choose to use it in my mixed source decomstructions.

    Also, evidence for a war: Aside from Surge's reference, it is a very large assumption, and I can't give a good explanation for it.
  6. ChaosNebula

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    Rediamond although that explanation is valid - The movie's isn't being used as a theory. As the Pokemon Universe is being based upon the games. Red and Blue is from R/B/Y, also discussing the Johto region.

    Although a trainer going inside could work, you'd never know its personality since the anime is not a valid point. Games are being used.

    Another question - Why don't people use their pokemon to attack trainers?

    Also.. what happens to a pokemon after they are instantly captured? Do they feel anything?

    Can a pokemon escape from its ball after its captured successfully? It is shown in the anime it can but not in the games. Prof.Oak went crazy.. and kept the pokemon captured forever as long as the trainer wants to? What happens if the pokeball starts to tear part and break? What happens to the pokemon?

    Also "swarms" happen in the game. So it cancels the part where pokemon don't migrate. Once again pokemon might train and exercise to get "stronger." A level 16 pidgey could go to another place.. as there multiple pidgey locations.
  7. Rediamond

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    I mentioned that the last tangent had no basis in-game at all. As to why Pokemon strength increases, it is possible that strong Pokemon dominate certain areas, and anything weaker would die. As there are few
    powerful Pokemon or trainers near Pallet, weak Pokemon can thrive. Near the more proffesional trainers in Saffron and the surrounding areas, after a few released Pokemon would dominte the region, leading to a survival of the fittest scenario where only the most powerful would dare to show their faces. The power of released Pokemon in the area would be an indicator of how powerful the nearby Pokemon would be. Obviously, in examples like the route south of Cerulean things fall apart, but it's a decent explanation.

    Oh, and to answer the migration question, the variable here, released Pokemon, would not migrate away from their old trainers in most cases.

    As for Pokemon not attacking trainers, it's illegal and most are unwilling to deal with the police/gym leaders. Team Rocket would be the exception, as they don't care for one reason or another. It is a symplistic explanation, but it is an explanation nonetheless.

    EDIT: And while only relating to the anime, this is the greatest deconstruction ever, even if it does go into a bad fanfic at the end.
  8. ChaosNebula

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    My... lord. Such a detailed theory... That just went "Whoa" moment. This actually shocked me to end. The fanfic is like -_-. But everything before that.. was actually believable. I think I can agree that Ash is comatose and it explains on why he is not aging. Although.. that is anime-wise, and it explains most of my questions.

    Although in-game questions are QUITE in my head. Thank you for that link Rediamond.. it was interesting.
  9. Obsessed

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    Even if you wanted to attack the other trainer you would likely need to go through their bodyguard (their Pokemon) first. Meanwhile if your Pokemon is focused on attacking the opposing trainer it will leave itself open to attacks from the opposing trainer's Pokemon.
  10. ChaosNebula

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    Good point. Although why not use multiple pokemon? If your really skilled use 3-4 pokemon to destroy the enemy. Also without the trainer's order, the pokemon is probably useless.
    3-4 pokemon could be used to overpower so and so trainer. 1-2 pokes handle the pokemon itself, and 1 poke could hurt the other trainer. Steal the pokemon they have and rob their money.

    Another question if someone steals a pokemon (Like Silver,) what will happen if you steal another person's pokeball? If you capture a pokemon the pokeball is assigned or your OT is recorded. If you steal it? What happens? Will it work?
  11. cantab

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    In the case of most trainers, not attacking the other trainer and not using all your Pokemon at once can be explained by the idea that Pokemon battling is a sport and most people don't cheat. In the case of Team Grunts, lack of intelligence could explain it, which only really leaves Giovanni, who may simply choose to fight "honourably".
  12. ChaosNebula

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    Idiots may be idiots, all valid points. Although.. remember that old man in Vermillion City?
    He is using that Machop for land. He cultivated that land and it took 3 years to flatten the land. In Pokemon Emerald, the house is made I think.I don't thinks its ever built... HOW THE HELL DOES THE OLD MAN TAKE SO LONG TO FLATTEN A PIECE OF LAND. I mean why not use the Machop and terrorize someone... much easier.
  13. Rediamond

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    The old man never occured to me as entirely sane. Also, if the Machop doesn't work hard enough to evolve after three years of work, I want to question how hard it's working.

    EDIT: And as for using one Pokemon at once, has anyone considered it just might be harder to keep track of every Pokemon with six deployed? I want to compare it to fighting three battles at once on Shoddy. There isn't much thought to any move, and I often forget about certain Pokemon and lose all three matches.
  14. Kikuichimonji

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    I imagine it's the same reason that you wouldn't attack a cub when its mother bear is near by. Dispatching the lesser cub would certainly be easier than trying to take out the mother from the outset, but the mother bear would likely fly into an uncontrollable rage if her cub came to harm. I imagine that Team Rocket never attacks Red because they're afraid of what havoc might be wrought by the uncontrollable rage from a Pokemon that had just seen its master slain. Also bear in mind that in most cases, Red is bringing the fight to the Rockets, fighting on their territory. The Rockets have a vested interest in protecting their own resources.

    What Obsessed said about Pokemon functioning as bodyguards also applies. Notice that the trainer's first reflex in any battle (even one with an incredibly weak Pokemon) is to immediately send out the first Pokemon on their roster.

    In real life, it's actually pretty common for brawls to be strictly one-on-one, even when one side has the other outnumbered. (One common criticism I see of movies is that the bad guys always seem to attack the protagonist one at a time, rather than attacking him together as a group, but this is actually what happens in real life.) Common logic might suggest that two combatants would be better than one, but in practice, it's more likely that they'd end up getting in each other's way. Rather than trying to coordinate some kind of attack (which is much easier said than done), it's easier to just attack one at a time; even if they do choose to fight one at a time, they still have the advantage of numbers (since the first attacker will inevitably wear on the defender's stamina, making him easier for the second fighter). I'm guessing that trying to get two Pokemon to fight cooperatively would be an even more difficult task, one that took several generations for trainers to perfect. Also note that most of the double-battles in gen 3 and 4 aren't against randoms, but rather against duos of trainers who likely had the opportunity to train together extensively, such as siblings, etc. Of particular note is that Liza and Tate (seventh gym leader from gen 3) have the benefit of being psychics, which no doubt enhances their ability to work together (since they can presumably communicate telepathically). Another interesting thing about Liza and Tate is that they're a high-tier gym despite having only two Pokemon on their roster; it would seem that their ability to work together (better than an average trainer might) is more than enough to make up for the relative weakness of their lineup.
  15. Obsessed

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    I'd just imagine that controlling more than 2 Pokemon at one time would be too much for your average trainer. Your average grunt probably just can't handle it, and the higher ups in Team Rocket probably realize that they have a better chance taking you on 1 vs 1 when they can maximize the performance of each individual Pokemon. They could send out 6 Pokemon but that would mean focusing on 6 Pokemon all at once. Even if you sent out only half as many Pokemon you would probably be more likely to win because you have much less to focus on at once.
  16. min min

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    Now, now, how do you know that's not the case? I've always wondered why the trainers never ran away when they lost.
  17. ChaosNebula

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    I have always wondered on why trainers ALWAYS have to give money to the winner when they just couldn't run away. You always have to give out a sum of money, is there a law enforced to give money to the trainer?
  18. Invective

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    I assume it is a mix of common courtesy and the fact that you now have no Pokemon to protect yourself with. Personally if I had just watched my "bodyguards" get beat into submission, I would be inclined to give up some of my money to ensure that I would not follow the fate of my Pokemon.
  19. locopoke

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    As for why Mewtwo doesn't just escape the cave (which was mentioned a page or two back), it could be possible that he's chained down to that one spot or is contained in some way that isn't revealed to the player in-game. Not sure if it matters but I remember in the manga he was chained down.

    Just my 2 cents, awesome thread.
  20. HitoriRaven

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    I haven't posted in a looooong time but I would also like to add my two cents. I believe my ideas haven't been addressed, if so, then please correct me.

    In the idea of pokemon evolving, via mutation or any other method, why is a trainer able to stop evolution? You couldn't stop an animal from adapting to it's surroundings, so why is a human able to stop genetic mutation? For that matter, why are there pokemon in the wild who are at or past their evolving level, yet are still at a lower evolution? And still there are higher evolutions that live with or near them? Is this supposed to be an adaptation? If the pokemon can stop its evolution, why do pokemon evolve at all, even if a trainer says to? If they feel they are faster or stronger as they are, why don't they just stop their evolution permanently? And what connection does an Everstone bring? Some kind of anti-evolution radiation?

    Second. The bag. This might have been mentioned, and I missed it. I might be mistaken on this for first gen, but for sure in later gens, the bag can carry unlimited items. Even if not, the item cap is very high for most items. How the heck can Red carry an obscene amount of items - which vary in size (the Bicycle) - in that godforsaken tiny bag? I mean...it looks like it could carry maybe 20 good sized things and some other misc. things. Is this because of super genetic mutated strength and/or some extra-dimensional backpack? If b., where did Red gen such an amazing bag? It beats Pokeball technology for sure. If he got it from Oak, why doesn't Oak just sell the tech for millions? Or, if it's from another company, like Silph Co., why doesn't everyone have and abuse the crap out of these bags?

    Man...I sure typed a lot of questions. Just some things I thought of when reading this thread.
  21. RODANK

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    why do some pokemon only evolve by trading
  22. ChaosNebula

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    Difficult question to pick at. Perhaps when the pokemon are transferred to another trainer something triggers inside the pokemon because of the trade? As explained couple pages back Pokemon are converted into energy and are easy carry right? So then some Pokemon are affected by trade because of it.

    Perhaps that is the only known way to Red. For an example Steelix could be found in G/S/C in Victory Road if I am correct. How did they evolve? There must be an unknown way of evolving them that has not been mentioned.
  23. Texas Cloverleaf

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    The bike is collapsible.
  24. cantab

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    The Pokedex entries imply that Onix evolve into Steelix if they live for about 100 years in their natural environment deep underground.
  25. Zephyr

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    I remember reading a different thread on here that said there was originally like 192(iirc) pokemon intended for the game, but they decided to hold a few for GSC.... maybe that has something to do with it?

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