Ubers Deep Blue Sea - my 1st Gen V Ubers team

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by xNinja, May 12, 2012.

  1. xNinja

    xNinja

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Deep Blue Sea - A gen 5 RMT

    [​IMG]


    [Introduction]

    I'll throw in a small introduction about myself and the team before starting this RMT, as this is my first ever RMT, and one of my first posts on Smogon in general.

    I'm a 17 year old from the Netherlands, so English is not my primary language, excuse me for that. I am finishing high school within the next three weeks. Next year I will be going to university to study physics as I seem to enjoy it a lot. In my spare time I like to play xbox, chill with friends, occasionally work out at the gym, and listen to a wide variety of music. I don't only play xbox, I've played about every console there has been since 2000 and still am quite the PC gamer. Pokemon has a special place in my heart, it's been my best English teacher I've ever had :). Playing older versions of the game brings back so many good memories of good times. Unfortunately the interior battery of my pokemon blue recently died :(.

    About this team, Deep Blue Sea, this is my first serious attempt at an Ubers team, of course with some help of other RMTs on the forums. This is also my first ever RMT and I hope I'm doing this right. There's been a lot of tweaking, and a lot of other mons have had their place on this team, but those would be too many to all put in here, so in my teambuilding process I will only explain why the current members of this team deserve their spot. I haven't made an attempt to ladder with this team, but it's made it to 1350-1400 points with ease, and not many teams find it easy to keep momentum their way and break my defenses.

    The team at first glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building Process:

    Show Hide
    As I was new to the Ubers metagame I decided to just take a look at some usage statistics and quickly noted Kyogre was the most used poke, I asked some people for a counter, and they mentioned Palkia and Gastrodon, Gastrodon being utterly useless as it is I decided to go with Palkia. I gave Palkia a choice scarf and decided to add in a specially defensive Ferrothorn to heal it with Leech Seed, and also to provide general team support against any weather inducer in Ubers.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Now I needed a counter to the physical threats in Ubers, Forretress crossed my mind but I realised it's only set up bait, and I already had Ferrothorn, I noticed Extremekiller was easily phazed by Skarmory, even at the likes of +4, as long as I could keep it healthy, so Skarmory was added to the team, the only physical threat that could potentially hurt Skarm a lot is Zekrom. I chose to run a fully supportive set which is explained below.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I decided that my team had quite a Fire weakness with Ferrothorn and Skarmory, so Kyogre was added. I chose to run a bulky Choice Specs varient over the standard scarf set because I felt my team needed some more offensive firepower. Specs Kyogre is just too good to switch out for anything.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Time for a physical attacker. I looked at Arceus-Rock, because of its solid EdgeQuake coverage, but decided extremekiller would be a better adition to my team as I lacked priority. I chose to run a bulky Extremekiller because this team would otherwise be too frail to function well. Lastly PsychoKiller Mewtwo was thrown in because it provided me with some essential coverage against non scarfed pokes.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    In depth:


    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    Ahh, Skarmory, one of the best physical walls in OU does her job just as fine in the Ubers metagame. No attacking moves might seem strange at first glance, but there's no real need for them. Skarmory is only around to put down hazards and to phaze extremekiller, + a brave bird is far too weak and only limits Skarmorys walling capabilities because of the recoil. Taunt is to shut down Ferrothorn and Forretress, if they decides to come in on Skarm that is. Roost is obviously for healing purposes, to guarantee that extra layer of spikes, or that extra whirlwind, which may just help me win the game. Outrage locked pokemon like Zekrom are also easily phazed, racking up entry hazard damage. Spikes were put on Skarmory instead of Ferrothorn to take the weight of Ferrothorns back a little, both Ferro and Skarm have quite a bit of pressure on them when it comes to keeping the team alive.

    I feel that Skarmory is the most expendable member of this team, but I'm not sure about what to put in its place, help with this would be appreciated :-).


    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast

    As best of a counter to Kyogre there is. 4x resistence to Water-type attacks and only one weakness is amazing. Choice Scarf with 112 Speed EVs gives me just enough speed to outspeed every form of Mewtwo (barring Choice Scarf lol). Spacial Rend was picked over Draco Meteor because I hate the Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor. Thunder is to hit Water-types super effectively and Fire Blast does a lot of damage if the enemy decides to bring sun but is also very effective in wearing down 4x weak pokes like Ferrothorn, even in the rain.


    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Ice Beam
    - Psystrike
    - Aura Sphere

    Standard Psycho Killer Mewtwo. Ice Beam to hit the many dragons that swarm around Ubers, Psystrike because not only does it hit like a Mac truck, it also hits on the physical side of the defensive spectrum, which is often rather uninvested in Ubers. Aura Sphere to hit Tyranitar, Dialga, and other steel types for super effective damage. Mewtwo is awesome because of its high base 130 speed and 154 Special Attack. Life Orb to make it hit even harder is a nice boost to it's godlike powers. I sometimes lead with this if I see my opponent has a Smeargle, hoping to bring it down to its sash after which I can switch to Arceus to E-speed for the KO.


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip

    Deals with Kyogre and Groudon that lacks fire punch perfectly fine. Can work wonders against Tyranitar also, as long as it lacks the powerful Fire Blast. Iron bars also help wearing down excadrill, who often carry life orb AND rapid spin, meaning they will take a nice 22.5% per turn they try to spin my rocks away. I decided to split rocks and spikes because Ferrothorn normally does not get enough time alive to set up 3 layers of spikes. Leech seed helps against the pink blobs that for some reason often switch into it, and also helps in keeping Palkia and Kyogre and Mewtwo on a healthy amount of HP.


    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Water Spout
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf

    Rain is not essential to this team, the powerhouse that is Kyogre however, is. Choice specs, rain boosted, max special attack, modest Water Spouts hit everything hard. This set is completely walled by Gastrodon, but Gastro is a useless poke and should never be used anyway + the rest of my team deals with the seaslug perfectly fine. Ice beam to hit the many dragons, and Thunder to hit other Kyogres. If I am in a lead matchup against Groudon and see their sun goes up after my rain I instantly use Water Spout, even in the sunshine it will do massive damage to almost anything that does not resist it. But normally they will stay in with their Groudon to get up rocks or Thunder Wave, predicting a switch. People tend to think Kyogre doesn't function in sunshine, they couldn't be more mistaken.


    252 SAtk Kyogre full HP Water Spout in rain vs Specially defensive Blissey: 54,76% - 64,71%, 2 Hit KO
    VS Specially defensive Ferrothorn: 61,65% - 72,72% 2 Hit KO
    Surf in sun vs support Groudon: 76,49% - 90,59% Potential OHKO after some spikes and rocks.

    Yes, all of these pokes in their respective weather conditions are always 2H KO'd, proving exactly why Specs Kyogre is such a monster!


    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Def / 24 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Force
    - Refresh

    Bulky extremekiller, Refresh + Reftovers over Recover because this team lacks a spinner and Toxic Spikes are very common, also nullifying a burn always helps. Refresh in general makes Arceus last longer on the field than Recover ever would. Shadow Force over Shadow Claw to hit Lugia and both Giratinas extremely hard. Walled by a lot of pokes, but nothing my team can't handle. Extremespeed is usually only used to clean late game, but I might sometimes revenge kill a poke with Arceus if I'm sure it's at low enough HP and if it would outspeed the rest of my team. I don't feel like Swords Dance needs any explenation. I normally only bring in Arceus once, because one SD against a worn down team means GG.



    [Conclusion]
    A couple of problems remain, most notably the lack of a spinner on this team, but there just isn't enough space. This team has proved to work, even with hazards on the field. The only other notable weak spots might be smashpass and an opponent who plays a choice scarf Dialga correctly. Other than that, this team proved to be very solid, and I am quite proud of it, I've never been much of a great teambuilder, but this time I managed to do it (with the help of some other RMTs of course, as I built this team around being able to work against some of the top rated teams), and it's worked out nicely!

    [Importable]

    Show Hide
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast

    Mewtwo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Ice Beam
    - Psystrike
    - Aura Sphere

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip

    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Water Spout
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf

    Arceus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Def / 24 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Force
    - Refresh


    [Threat list (will finish later hopefully)]

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Arceus: Skarmory can phaze, if they lack Brick Break Ferrothorn can Leech Seed and from there on Skarmory can wall, Mewtwo hurts it alot and my own Arceus can damage it quite a lot.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Bug: Never seen this before, but it takes 25% from Stealth Rocks, which should always help, Ferrothorn can paralyze, it will also get destroyed by Palkia.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Dark: Annoying to say the least. If it lacks a Fire-type attack Ferrothorn deals with it, if not I might have to try and wear it down before Mewtwo can finish it.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Dragon: Never seen this but Palkia can outspeed, Kyogre can Ice Beam.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Electric: Ferrothorn or Mewtwo and my own Arceus, depending on moveset.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Fighting: Psystrike from Mewtwo, can give lots of trouble with a Calm Mind up and Mewtwo out of the field though.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Fire: Can't do anything as long as rain is up.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Flying: Kyogress Ice Beam, Thunder, Palkias Thunder, Stealth Rock damage, they all help.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Ghost: Shadow Force on my own Arceus will hurt this a lot, and it normally can't do much in return because of Refresh I can just shake of a burn or paralyze Mewtwo can hurt it a lot, but will have to suicide if it doesn't KO.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Grass: Never seen this, I suppose Palkia or Mewtwo would have to deal with it?
    [​IMG] Arceus-Ground: Surf from Palkia/Kyogre.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Ice: Can't really hurt much on my team, and is destroyed by Mewtwo
    [​IMG] Arceus-Poison: Mewtwo
    [​IMG] Arceus-Psychic: Ferrothorn and my own Arceus can deal with it, eventually Palkia could finish it off or Kyogre could do some damage, because it can live an unboosted hit.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Rock: If sandstorm is up: Ferrothorn, if not anything really will destroy it.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Steel: Mewtwo and Palkia kill it, it can't really hurt any of my pokes, except maybe cripple them with status, but nothing should have a lot of trouble taking this down.
    [​IMG] Arceus-Water: Thunder from Palkia, Thunder from Kyogre, Ferrothorns Power Whip also hurts.
    [​IMG] Blaziken: Palkia or Mewtwo, as long as rain is up I should be fine.
    [​IMG] Darkrai: They generally lead, I will lead with Mewtwo and use Aura Sphere for the OHKO, if they are scarfed I can live a hit and kill them off normally. If they are sashed Mewtwo will have to be asleep unfortunately, but I can just finish them off with Arceus, because they always tend to go for Nasty plot on the switch.
    [​IMG] Deoxys: This thing can actually do a lot of damage. I tend to match it up against Arceus, switching out to Skarmory, hoping they go for Superpower, if they don't have it my own Arceus can take it out, if they lack a Sash Palkia will destroy it.
    [​IMG] Deoxys-A: see Deoxys
    [​IMG] Deoxys-S: Normally only sets up hazards, which is annoying, but I could work around it. Normally I match them up with Arceus who will OHKO non sashed varients with Shadow Force, a move that normally makes them switch anyway.
    [​IMG] Dialga: Scarfed will revenge anything on my team, because my Palkia doesn't have max Speed. Non Scarfed varients are dealed with by Mewtwo.
    [​IMG] Excadrill: Just have to keep sand of the field.
    [​IMG] Garchomp: Palkia or even Mewtwo if it took some spikes damage, yet again, have to keep sand of the field.
    [​IMG] Giratina: As long as it lacks protect, which it always does, Arceus will destroy it. Mewtwo can hurt it a lot with a Psystrike.
    [​IMG] Giratina-O: Ferrothorn to wear it down, paralyze it, Arceus can hurt it a lot.
    [​IMG] Groudon: Ferrothorn and Kyogre combination deals with both sets perfectly fine.
    [​IMG] Ho-Oh: If they manage to get a sub up they can hurt a lot, but Palkia normally works best.
    [​IMG] Kyogre: Palkia and Ferrothorn, if it's choice locked in a water move my own Kyogre can come in and Thunder it.
    [​IMG] Lugia: A Thunder from Palkia or a Shadow Force from Arceus should do the job, stealth rock helps.
    [​IMG] Manaphy: Ferrothorn 2hKOs with power whip.
    [​IMG] Mewtwo: My own Mewtwo, entry hazards, Palkia and Arceus should deal with it.
    [​IMG] Palkia: Frail pokemon, if I catch it locked into surf Palkia can come in and kill it.
    [​IMG] Rayquaza: Skarmory can phaze, air lock and overheat are annoying though. Palkia can outspeed if they are without a DD. Arceus does like 60% unboosted.
    [​IMG] Reshiram: Take away its sun take away its power. Palkia and Kyogre deal with it.
    [​IMG] Shaymin-S: Ferrothorn can't touch it and vice versa. Frail pokemon so Palkia can deal with it. As long as it doesn't get a sub up it's OHKOd by an Ice Beam from Mewtwo.
    [​IMG] Thundurus: Priority Thunder wave is annoying, Ferrothorn walls it though, can't really hurt it in return. Perhaps
    [​IMG] Zekrom: Choiced: Ferrothorn. Sub + hone claws: Switch as it comes in and you notice leftovers, Mewtwo can break the sub and KO the following turn with Ice Beam.

    Non-Ubers


    [​IMG] Blissey:
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    [​IMG]Dugtrio:
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    [​IMG] Heracross:
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    [​IMG] Latias:
    [​IMG] Latios:
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    [​IMG] Ludicolo:
    [​IMG] Mew:
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    [​IMG] Chandelure:
    [​IMG] Shedinja:
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    [​IMG]Victini:
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:

    Bisharp
    Quagsire
    Skarmory
    These last three lack images due to the 100 image limit, and I was at 103:P
  2. cheap_uber_battler

    cheap_uber_battler

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Hi there, very nice effort at your first ubers team.

    I recommend the following changes:
    - Run a few speed creep EV's on skarm so you can out-taunt other skarmory. This is situational but can actually be vital in some matches.
    - Run a coverage move such as Break Break/EQ/Fire Blast on Arceus over refresh. Yes Toxic Spikes can shorten your sweep, but you are better off just using the turn to set up or attack. Alternatively, run a bulky set with Recover and switch in on 1 layer if you need to. Also, I much prefer Shadow Claw over Shadow Force, but some people may disagree on that.

    I would also consider (and test) the following:
    -Using Ground Arceus over Normal Arceus. This gives you a nice Electric immunity, espcially helping against sub+hone claws Zekrom aswell as any choiced Thunders. You can still run a Swords Dance set with Edge-Quake coverage, and can even use Extremespeed if you feel the priority is vital, although with the less of STAB remember it becomes quite weak. You can also try out CM Groundceus or a support set if you are interested.
    - Going Timid 252Spd on Palkia. This is a hard one for me to comment on because I have never seen Modest Scarfkia and am too lazy to do calcs on it. It may be that you net some nice KO's on unscarfed pokemon, but I know the conventional route is to run max speed to outrun the base 90 scarf users such as Zekrom, Kyogre, Dialga etc aswell as tieing with opposing Scarfkia and Salamence.
    - I'd actually consider swapping Stealth Rock and Spikes around on Skarm and Ferrothorn. This is something you will definately need to test over time, but i feel that Ferrothorn will find more turns to set up hazards than Skarm with its greater number of resistances, and quite often Skarm will be against opposing E-killer where the need to phase/roost is quite immediate.

    Don't think that the team is not already solid and feel free to ignore my views.

    p.s. i am currently studying for a BSc in Theoretical Physics, and it is a tough degree but very interesting and rewarding. Good luck.
  3. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,820
    Hey xNinja, very nice rain team you got, I do have a few suggestions though.


    You say that Skarmory is the most expandable member of your team but you don't know what to replace it with. Since you're running Spikes and Stealth Rock, a spinblocker is a must, as without it your strategy will be pretty much lost and Arceus's sweep might fail. But one you remove Skarmory, you are extremely weak to opposing Extreme Killer Arceus. Therefore, I suggest Giratina instead.

    Giratina (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Giratina @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Aura Sphere


    By doing that you get a spinblocker to keep hazards on the opposite field by spinblocking. Forretress and Tentacruel will never get past Giratina, and in return Giratina sets up on them. At +1 this set is extremely powerful; both Extreme Killer Arceus and Dialga are 2HKOed by +1 Aura Sphere, and neither can OHKO, unless Dialga is holding Choice Specs. Even +2 Life Orb Arceus's Shadow Ball fails to KO this set, topping at 82.53%. This set gives you a good spinblocker while still retaining your team's offensive playstyle.

    Now using too Choice users in Palkia and Kyogre seems redundant to me, especially because Kyogre can fulfill Palkia's role very well, while Palkia can trade the Choice Scarf to a Lustrous Orb set.

    Palkia (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf / Hydro Pump


    Palkia is now a very dominant sweeper. By using Lustrous Orb Palkia bluffs a Choice Scarf set, allowing it to lure in and eliminate Pokemon such as Rayquaza, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory. The coverage this set has makes it almost impossible to defeat, as the opponent will have to rely on prediction. With Spikes and Stealth Rock support this set becomes a true monster, as it also forces a ton of switches. The choice between Surf and Hydro Pump is up to you; Accuracy vs Power.

    Kyogre (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Water Spout
    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam


    The EVs allow Kyogre to outspeed max Speed Modest Deoxys-A, and all Shaymin, Darkrai, and Mewtwo that do not hold Choice Scarf. Again, with Spikes and Stealth Rock support, Kyogre can be free to spam Water Spout, as none will enjoy taking that. Once again, the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump is up to you.

    Ferrothorn should use Spikes over Stealth Rock, as they are much more helpful. Plus, not many Pokemon have access to it, so using Stealth Rock on it is a waste.

    Right now you lack Stealth Rock support. To me, it seems like Arceus is the one who is usually pulling the late-game sweep, so Mewtwo is fairly useless. You say you send it out as lead against Smeargle, but now both Kyogre and Palkia are faster than it, so you can finish it later with Arceus. (Though be wary against these leads, choose wisely what you want to be put asleep) I suggest using Dialga instead.

    Dialga (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] / [​IMG]
    Dialga @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast


    Dialga is less powerful than Mewtwo indeed, but this does not mean it is not powerful! Its coverage, like Palkia's, is insane. The opponent will have to rely on prediction, forcing Dialga to a -2 Special Attack after it has taken a lot of damage. Dialga also provides you Stealth Rock, which is pretty much a must for every team, and allows you to have an easier time against Giratina-O and such. Life Orb gives Dialga a lot of power, a thing you might like, but Leftovers increases its lifespan.

    Onto your Arceus. Firstly, I suggest using a spread of 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe. The HP EVs allow Arceus to survive Choice Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat 81.25% of the time. Positive Speed natured Pokemon that resist ExtremeSpeed are uncommon (Arceus-Steel), so the Speed EVs are there to outrun neutral natured 252 Speed base 90's, such as Dialga and Reshiram. I think Earthquake is a must, because without it you have no chance against Dialga, Heatran, and such. Refresh seems a little unneeded, especially because Arceus will clean late game. You can try Recover somewhere, but I really like that coverage.

    tl;dr (open)
    • ChestoRest Giratina > Skarmory
    • Lustrous Orb Palkia > Choice Scarf Palkia
    • Choice Scarf Kyogre > Choice Specs Kyogre
    • Spikes > Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn
    • Dialga > Mewtwo
    • 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe as Arceus's EVs, and Earthquake > Refresh. You can consider Recover somewhere


    Hope I helped, Good Luck!
  4. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Furai had some neat idea's, I second his post.

    The only thing I would change as as of now is your Arceus set. If status really bothers you, just throw on a lum berry and call it a day. You lose some longetivity without leftovers, but Arceus has a stupendous amount of staying power regardless. Brick break > Earthquake because it still hits most steels for SE damage, and it doesn't leave you completely walled by Skarmory.

    Just some minor moveset changes and such. GL!
  5. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    805
    I reccomend against some of Furai's changes actually. His post contradicts one of the things he's trying to say as-a-matter-of-fact. By reverting Skarm to THAT VERSION of Giratina-a, Giratina-a ALLOWS Arceus to set up additional Swords Dances. After two Swords Dances that Giratina-a will die to a +4 Life Orb boosted Shadow Claw all the time, and if Arceus is holding Leftovers, Giratina-a still may die after Stealth Rock and a turn of Leftovers (this is all assuming Arceus Swords Dances on the switch to Giratina-a).

    Now I believe the switch to Great Wall Giratina-a can alleviate this problem where Restochest Giratina-a cannot.
    Great Wall Giratina (open)

    [​IMG]
    - Will-O-Wisp / Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef (CONSIDER SPEED CREEPING THIS)
    Nature: (+Def, -SAtk) Impish

    This set counters Extremekiller and Ho-oh (which may be troublesome if Sun is up) by immediately phazing both or can cripple the former with a WoW (providing you like its shaky accuracy).


    Aside that, I think you should also go against changing Palkia and Kyogre's sets that Furai reccomended. Palkia, in terms of power, lacks the raw power of Kyogre's massive Specs Spout, and his high base speed is mandatory to prevent you team from being wiped out by a Dragon Dance Rayquaza / Mix Dragon Dance Quaza. So you should keep the Specs Kyogre and Scarf Palkia but max out Scarf Palkia's speed EVs and give a timid nature to take care of any Dragon Dance Rayquaza that get out of hand.

    I second the rest of Furai's changes.

    Some food for thought (open)
    I feel Kingdra could be extremely successful in this team since its #1 counter, Ferrothorn, gets lured and obliterated by Specs Kyogre's Water Spout. The hazards and Giratina-a's shuffling capabilities on the team make give it enormous potenital for it to perform a late game clean. Kingdra may disturb some of your team's synergy though, and it may leave you open to certain threats, so again this is just food-for-thought and doesn't need to be done. So the change is Kingdra > Extremekiller but again, this change isn't necessary...

    That should help out with some of the team's problems. Good Luck with it!
  6. xNinja

    xNinja

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Furai, I've given some of your changes some thought but the team wasn't quite performing as well as I'd hope, perhaps this is because I haven't really played it as much as the original six, and therefore am less experienced with them, but I lost more than I used to before the changes.

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