1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Defense of the Ancients: The Draconic Illusion

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Clarion Valenheart, Sep 13, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132


    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon in its East Sea Forme is a fail there...

    = = = = = = = = = =

    [​IMG]

    = = = = = = = = = =

    Greetings, Smogonites! This is Clarion Valenheart, and named Soren Valenheart X at Pokemon Online, and I am here to present one of the next most-successful Wifi teams I've ever made. Same with my Battle Realms: The Valenheart's Soul [The Monochrome Edition Prequel] team, I fulfilled here a sense of balance since the strategy there is to soften up opponents for my core Pokemon to dominate some teams. Without further ado, here's my team! Note that my team at the glance is at the banner itself.


    = = = = = = = = = =

    [​IMG]

    = = = = = = = = = =

    [​IMG]

    Traxex was a skilled archer in her oppressive underground homeland, the Underdark, until she grew sick of her kin's evil ways and fled to the surface world. As a part of her resolution, she joined the Sentinel, bringing her excellent marksmanship to the fray. Some of her abilities include stripping magical beings of their voices, and enchanting her arrows with an icy cold. While such powers are valuable, her true origin will never cease to linger around in the judging eyes of others.

    I chose Jirachi in this team because it is one of my valuable team members and irreplaceable partners from my previous team. This Jirachi has become, my lead ~90% of the time unless with certain circumstances. It opens the game by Tricking its Choice Scarf to the opponent, and one of the two Pokemon that sets up entry hazards (Stealth Rock). Iron Head and Fire Punch are valuable moves, as if these moves help Jirachi decimate certain opponents (and pops Air Balloons from Heatran and leave it unscathed 60% of the time.) EV's and nature are very straightforward, maximizing Speed lets it outrun most Pokemon (bar Max-Speed Deoxys-S) with Choice Scarf at hand.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    [​IMG]

    Slicing through armor with the greatest of ease. Whirling, dancing like a dervish, swiping foes with a flick of the wrist. Poetry in motion, slashing enemy upon enemy in the blink of an eye. Yurnero seeks perfection. Seeks to become one with his blade. All to fulfill his destiny as the unstoppable Juggernaut.

    Gliscor, like Jirachi, is one of the valuable team members from the previous team. I chose Gliscor here because it performs its duties very well primarily to check Excadrill, shut down the prime stall Pokemon Ferrothorn, Skarmory, et. al., and take non-super-effective physical attacks like a king due to its naturally high defense and decent HP. Substitute (before it was Taunt) gives Gliscor a way of more Swords Dance set-ups, making stronger STAB Earthquakes. Whether it is a debate to give Gliscor Ice Fang or Facade, I prefer Facade the most because Rotom-W switch-ins are very debilitating to Gliscor, and it has a good chance of knocking out in just a blink of an eye. EV's are modified here, but serves the same purpose. I decreased its HP EV's just for its Poison Heal number, and I increased the Speed EV's to 88 just to outrun other Gliscor. The Defense EV's remain the same, though, but the defensive capabilities are still worthwhile.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    [​IMG]

    Slithice was always a vagabond among the Naga, roaming beyond the boundaries of the sea in search of new things. During her adventures she met and fell in love with a young Orc training to be a Blademaster. Though he was inexperienced he taught her many Orcish fighting tactics employed by seasoned warriors. During their courtship as she was learning how to make traps from a local raider, a swarm of Scourge came and invaded, and her love was killed before her very eyes. She used her Naga magics to put the evil to sleep and fled, and now gives her all to the Sentinel, in the name of her love.

    That "Naga Magic" Gastrodon acquires here is the new powered-up ability Storm Drain, that powers up its Special Attack when an opponent attempts to fire a Water-type attack against it. I chose Gastrodon here because like the two mentioned previously, it is the last of the three valuable members in my team, and it performs its duties very well as from the previous team stands as a good check to Rain teams. Scald and Ice Beam gives a good coverage (Gliscor and Heatran have Earthquake and Earth Power respectively, that's why I patched out Earth Power on Gastrodon), allowing to hit most Pokemon neutral damage, while Toxic is Gastrodon's main crippling move, allowing to debilitate Quagsire and other Gastrodon. Recover makes Gastrodon a great Special Wall, and it walls almost all unboosted Special Attacks with ease, thanks to its EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Special Attack / 252 Special Defense.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    [​IMG]

    A treant of immense age and wisdom, Rooftrellen was merely a sapling during the invasion of the Burning Legion. Having grown powerful over thousands of years, Rooftrellen has lent his considerable might to the Sentinel cause. An omnipresent force in the forest, he is capable using his power over the forest to hide his allies. Rooftrellen is aided by the forest itself, providing him with a thick living armor of vines and entangling nearby foes in a deadly embrace, allowing Rooftrellen to pound his victims to dust with his massive gnarled limbs.

    It's a bit interesting that the Leech Seed ability on Rooftrellen is almost the same (and the same name) as Ferrothorn's move. I chose Ferrothorn to be here because this Pokemon, alongside Gastrodon has the ability to check Rain teams. Since Jirachi can use Stealth Rock, Ferrothorn is resorted to another entry hazard, which is Spikes, that deals good damage even with a single layer. If Gastrodon has a crippling move in Toxic, Ferrothorn has a crippling move of its own, in Thunder Wave, that slows down faster opponents (giving it a better way of countering Rain abusers, especially Ludicolo, that hard-presses Gastrodon thanks to its Grass typing.) Power Whip is its only way of attack, since it doesn't want to get Taunted. EV's here are somewhat standard, as 252 HP EV's maximizes Ferrothorn's survivability, while 48 Defense and 208 Special Defense EV's balances its defensive spectrum, with a slight emphasis to Defense. However, the unexpectedness of this Ferrothorn comes with this item: Shed Shell, as it escapes the traps Magnezone tries to ensnare against this Ferrothorn, so it's a big advantage, despite the valuable Leftovers recovery.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    [​IMG]

    Ancient scriptures spoke of seven sacred emanations of light, and of their convergence in great conflict. The collision of these rays upon the mortal realm created a pyre of the highest purity, giving birth to the mythical Phoenix. As a manifestation of divine flames, Icarus can discharge either flames of death and destruction, or of life and healing. The concentrated beam of energy that he can emit can incinerate whole armies from across the battlefield. Unafraid to utilize his own life-force in order to vanquish his enemies, Icarus can also harness the direct power of the sun to create a stellar explosion.

    I'm not utilizing Life Orb Heatran here, instead I'm using Heatran just to play safe. I chose Heatran here because Heatran has become one of my staples in building my team (however it's my first time to officially place this Pokemon here) due to its immunity to Fire-type attacks (thanks to its ability), and its greatly offensive presence. Since Generation IV, I give Heatran the move Substitute, as it blocks Status problems and gives a way of sweeping some Pokemon around (it even blocks Dragon Tail from phazing it.) Then, I choose to attack with either Flamethrower (as a main STAB move, since Fire Blast misses can cost the game), Earth Power (especially to other Heatran), and the Ice-typed Hidden Power (if I confront a Dragon). EV's here are very straightforward and self-explanatory.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    [​IMG]

    In Sentinel's search for heroes to aid them in the war against the Scourge, they discovered the lost lands of the mystical Faerie Dragons. Upon explaining the conflict to the Faerie Queen of Agrace, she sent forth Puck, a personal guardian, to turn the tides of war. Despite his small size and mischievous personality, the little dragon soon proved to pack more than his fair share of power on the battlefield, blasting through the enemy ranks with balls of magic, faerie dust, and the capability to stupefy an entire army with nothing more than his imagination. His foes all learned the hard way that size matters not in combat, and that appearances are, ultimately, deceiving.

    Ultimately deceiving indeed, but how it happened on Latias? I chose Latias here because she is one of the three Pokemon that learns Reflect Type (alongside Mew and Staryu), thus I run a set that has Reflect Type in it: the novelty Substitute-Calm Mind set. As this team is full of Substitutes (not really, only half of the team in there), it's a staple to use Substitute to block Status and scout for attacks due to its blistering 110 base Speed. Calm Mind makes Latias an amazing grace, as it raises her Special Attack and Special Defense. Dragon Pulse is her attacking move, it gives STAB before it uses Reflect Type, as it loses that gain. Reflect Type matches the opponent's original type, stupefying non-Superpower Tyranitar variants, Scizor and other Steel-types, and others who are trying to fire a Super-effective move against Latias (given that the super-effective attack is resistant to the attacker as well). 252 Speed and Timid Nature is a staple, as she outruns most Pokemon around below 110 base Speed benchmark, and gives a Speed tie to non-Scarf Latios and Gengar. 176 Special Attack gives Latias more strength to her Dragon Pulse, and the rest of the EV's will be dumped to her HP.


    = = = = = = = = = =

    [​IMG]

    = = = = = = = = = =

    Here it is, the "Defense of the Ancients: The Draconic Illusion" team. The team's far from perfect (yeah, there is no absolutely perfect team.) In light of this one, I am cordially inviting you to comment and criticize about my team, and I am appreciating all constructive entries. Enjoy reading, and fire away your rates! =D

    [​IMG]

    = = = = = = = = = =

    [​IMG]

    = = = = = = = = = =​
    Show Hide
    Traxex (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch

    Yurnero (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 176 Def / 88 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake
    - Facade

    Slithice (Gastrodon-East) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Rooftrellen (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip

    Icarus (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Puck (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 80 HP / 176 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Reflect Type
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse


    -I'm going to acknowledge my best friend (who's not a member of the forums) who print-screened all the pictures shown.-
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,743
    hey man this is a really solid team so good job with that

    Firstly, I can see you having real trouble with Swords Dance Toxicroak. Most run Ice Punch as well as Cross Chop and therefore pretty much smash through your team after they set up a +2 on Gastrodon. You have pretty much nothing that can handle it so its an extreme threat. Chesto Rest Volcarona also looks pretty nasty as Heatran is pretty much the only thing that can switch in and even then it cannot do jack to it. Lastly, Skarmory is going to be a bitch as it sets up Spikes on over half your team with no problems, and phases out Gliscor and Latias with no problems.

    To fix this I have a few suggestions. First, id like to see Earth Power on Gastrodon again, maybe over Scald. This limits the opportunity Toxicroak has to set up on your team as its much harder for you to set up a Swords Dance.

    Secondly, id like you to consider running Taunt on your Gliscor over Substitute. You stated Gliscor is there to help against defensive pokemon such as Skarmory, but without Tauntm, Skarmory will just laugh at anything Gliscor does, set up Spikes, and just phase you out. Taunt lets you stop it cold, and turn it into set up fodder for your own use, giving you a greater chacne at sweeping.

    Lastly I have one major chance to suggest to this team. Firstly, I'd like to suggest that Jirachi be dropped for a Scarf Landorus. While its true that you don't have Sandstorm on your team, Landorus stil acts as a check to Volcarona, as well as a general revenger if something like Scrafty steals a Dragon Dacne or something. In addition, it still functions in a similar matter to Jirachi, acting as a scout for your team. As a result of this, you lose Stealth Rock so I guess Heatran can drop Substitute and run Stealth Rock.

    Good luck with the team!
  3. SpoeMeister

    SpoeMeister

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    I agree with ginganinja in a way:

    I just playtested a match or 20 and in general it's really solid. However, the moment someone starts to set-up (for example: toxicroak) it's very difficult to get back...

    so maybe some shuffling or the suggestions given by ginganinja can overcome these problems.
  4. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Hm? Landorus and Gliscor together? It might seem impossible... =/
  5. Soulfly

    Soulfly

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    409
    Team looks very solid .
    One thing i could say is :
    Try stockpile on gastrodon.
    Imo gastrodon was a bit too frail to really take hits without stockpile.
    Gastrodon usually causes some switches too if you bring it in smartly , so that way you got 1 stockpile off usually allready. This will make you reach 250ish defence and almost 400 if i'm not wrong special defence. This together with 424 hp makes for a very sturdy wall, that still has toxic to stall and burn to criple physical hitters. You might wanna go with ice beam over scald if you want to kill dragons with that set too but toxic stall works on almost all.
  6. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Ice Punch is way too rare; Toxicroak carries Substitute / Swords Dance or Bulk Up / Sucker Punch / Drain Punch most of the time, but that Toxicroak slightly troubled it so much. Anyway, I'll try using Earth Power on Gastrodon this time.


    True that; but let's see if Taunt really worked well, since Substitute has its advantages too...


    (as stated previously: Landorus and Gliscor together? That might seem impossible.) For that, I would have a massive Ice weakness (with only Heatran covering that problem). I would thought of Bronzong over Jirachi and Landorus over Gliscor, but I'm so unsure of that.


    Gastrodon, however, will suffer an FMS, abbreviating it as "Four Moveslot Syndrome." Gastrodon needs two attacking moves there, and if it only resorted with only one attacking move, then it would be prone to switches, allowing set-ups from my opponent's Pokemon.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


    Thanks for your nice, complimenting comments. I'm looking forward for those rates. =D
  7. Harlot

    Harlot

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    445
    I don't know if you've had any trouble with it, but MixApe seems like it could be troublesome if Latias is dead and Gliscor is at low health.

    Also, I recommend trying Ice Fang over Substitute on Gliscor.

    Other than those, I can't see anything that hasn't already been mentioned. Nice job.
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,743
    Actually the two dangerous sets are (apoligies if you said this and I misread it but)

    Substitute/Sucker Punch/Drain Punch/Bulk Up.

    That above set is totally walled by Gliscor and you can set up a swords Dance on it.

    The other set is

    Swords Dance/Cross Chop/Ice Punch/Sucker Punch @ Life Orb

    Gliscor does not wall this set as Toxicroak utterly destroys it with Ice Punch. This is the Mynosim set which is so deadly and trust me, is the best set Toxicroak can run in this metagame which was why I emphasised it as such a threat. If it was rare I would'nt bother giving it a mention.

    I agree it looks nasty on marrilands teambuilder but you really need that Volcarona check as its exceptionally threatening to you. If you really, really hate it you could run Specially defensive Heatran with a moveset of Lava Plume/SR/Roar/Protect which checks Volcarona pretty well. I'd then recomend a Rotom W (you can make it scarfed I guess if you want to keep the weapon against stall) which will then prevent Swords Dance + Taunt Ice Fang Gliscor from sweeping you.


    Something else I forgot to mention in my previous rate was Recover over Reflect Type on Latias. I really, really think your Latias needs recovery otherwise its not going to be effective and can gradually be taken down. Just your average Sub CM set should work fine and I think it would serve you much better than reflect type
  9. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,003
    I was gonna come in and say Volca with QD, Bug Buzz, Fiery Dance and HP Ground will kill 5/6 of your pokemons if was allowed a set-up, but somebody beat me to that.

    I would say give your Heatran a Balloon to avoid his x4 weakness to Ground. Otherwise this team is fun, good job.
  10. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Good thing you mentioned that. Someone might use that Toxicroak, and that will happen. =D


    I'm feeling it that way. However, to whom should I replace with Rotom-W?


    Actually, if you never knew it, Latias is my core there. The beauty of Reflect Type is great, since that move stupefies opponents. Leftovers mitigate that problem, but it takes a lot of skill to do that, though...


    Volcarona's a huge problem for me, and I think I'm going to test out the specially defensive Heatran ginganinja's suggesting me. Thanks for mentioning Volcarona as a threat, though. =D
  11. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,772
    Hey there.

    The specially defensive Heatran that ginganinja suggested will greatly help your team, so definitely use that.

    Second of all, since you only have 1 attack on Latias, running Max HP would be the most beneficial, as the extra bulk is greatly appreciated. It will allow Latias to set up more Calm Minds than she usually would; investing in an attacking stat when a pokemon only have one attack usually isn't a good idea regardless. Also, run Recover over Substitute. Latias needs Recover; running a Calm Mind set without it is Latios's forte. It will be much more effective this way, as it will be much tougher to take down.

    Ferrothorn honestly isn't doing much for your team. Rotom-W and other water types can easily be taken care of by Gastrodonm and dragons such as Latios are taken care of by Heatran. For this reason, replace Ferrothorn with a Skarmory.

    Defensive Skarmory
    Show Hide
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Roost


    Skarmory can set up Spikes very easily, and can phaze as well. Skarmory also forms an amazing core with Heatran and Gastrodon, supports Gliscor on the defensive side of the spectrum, and can also take a +2 Toxicroak's Cross Chop. It can also defeat Sub + 3 Attack Landorus, who also plagues your team, quite easily.

    Finally, Jirachi isn't doing much for your team at all, especially since Heatran now has Stealth Rock. Since this is mainly a stall team, a scarfer isn't really needed. A Rapid Spinner can greatly help any stall team, and for that reason, I suggest you replace Jirachi with a Forretress.

    Rapid Spin Forretress
    Show Hide
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    [0 Speed IV]
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin


    Forretress can not only Rapid Spin, but it can set up Toxic Spikes, which can greatly hinder walls such as Blissey. Volt Switch allows for scouting, and can often force a lot of switches when you bring in your next pokemon, allowing you to rack up entry hazard damage. Gyro Ball can damage pokemon such as Latios and stop Dragonite from setting up on you. A specially defensive set is chosen in order to help on both sides of the spectrum a bit more.

    Overall, nice team. Good luck.
  12. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    I tried and tested it, and it works. =D


    Then, Latias would risk a Status move for that. However, I should run EV's like that because I want Dragon Pulse to be a bit stronger. I'm not sure if you can accept this, but do you accept 176 HP / 80 Special Attack / 252 Speed, in Timid Nature? =/


    Ferrothorn serves as a backup check to Rain Teams alongside Gastrodon. If Ferrothorn was removed, then Ludicolo threatens my team because of its high-powered attacks in Hydro Pump or Surf / Ice Beam / Focus Blast / Giga Drain. At least Ferrothorn survives a Focus Blast, and Thunder Wave it away, and the Dragon Pulse given on Latias will not muscle Ludicolo to be KO'd. (With Skarmory on the field, I have a back-up check to Excadrill, though...)


    Actually, Tricking Choice Items is the bane of all stall teams. That's why I should have a Choice Scarf on my own. That's why I'm testing a Rotom Forme over Jirachi for this affair (most probably the Wash form), since Heatran has already Stealth Rock.
  13. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,772
    You shouldn't be worried about a Ludicolo because no one uses that...
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned so I'm not sure why you are preparing for a Ludicolo
  14. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    I played this team on the Pokemon Online Server, in which Drizzle + Swift Swim combo is not banned.
  15. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Bump! Need more suggestions, please... =/
  16. Howard

    Howard

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    98
    If you're looking for a Volcarona counter and don't want to switch out Jirachi, why not switch Latias to a Calm Mind/Specs Latios? He won't like that STAB Psychock very much, especially if you get him before +1. If you're worried about that, you could also Scarf him. You could do the same thing with Latias, also, but Latios packs a bit more punch. Also, they have the added bonus of tricking, just like Jirachi. You could also still switch Rachi AND switch Lati. Just a suggestion. Nice team.
  17. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    BUMP!

    Please help me regarding my Gliscor. Taunt or Substitute? Fire away your discussions! =D
  18. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Although I have no experience with Substitute, I have found many opportunities where Taunt is extremely useful, namely against Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, Blissey/Chansey, and a bunch of other set-up or stall type threats. If you predict well it can also help if you run across a random Baton Pass team.

    Another thing you could do that I've been experimenting with is to make it so your Gliscor becomes a SD Toxicroak counter as well. How, you ask? Change the EV's to 244 HP / 88 Def / 176 Spe. While this cuts out a whopping 25 Defense points, that extra speed bumps you up to 270 Speed, outrunning Adamant, 252 Spe Toxicroak by one point, and letting you Earthquake it back to its lily pad. So long as you're in good health and the frog hasn't already set up a Swords Dance, you can even switch into an Ice Punch (taking 62.5% - 73.8%), and nail the unsuspecting frog next turn as it tries to finish you off thinking it's faster. It's worked well for my team so far; I just need to not depend solely on Gliscor to take all forms of physical hits now, but have security against that rising-in-popularity frog. Hope I helped!

    EDIT:
    Shoot. In typing this this morning, I forgot SD Toxicroak carries Life Orb. This means a +0 Ice Punch does 80.7% - 95.5%. Still not a OHKO, but now it requires you to be in a lot better health before switching in on said Ice Punch. However, not many people will fire off said Ice Punch, instead going straight for the boost while they can on a switch, so not much worry there.
  19. Clarion Valenheart

    Clarion Valenheart

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Well, Seth, maybe I could run Gliscor with xx HP / xx Defense / 216 Speed to outrun Lucario and others, while retaining Gliscor's defensive capabilities. Is it viable, or it would violate Gliscor's defensive prowess?
  20. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    685
    Calm Mind Reuniclus, Dragon Dance Scrafty, SD Toxicroak look like potential problems once Jirachi has Tricked away its Choice Scarf (even with the scarf intact), as well as Quiver Dance Volcarona and Stall teams. The aforementioned sweepers get an easy set-up on Jirachi locked into the wrong move, and can then potentially sweep you. Trick will really only help you against CM Reuniclus, since TR versions can 2HKO, and when you try to Trick any other of those sweepers, you risk getting KOed by a boosted attack, so you pretty much HAVE to sac Jirachi against them. Stall teams also get multiple opportunities to set-up hazards, such as on Jirachi, Latias and Gliscor, then can repeatedly pHaze you to eat up hazard damage (you also have a difficult time breaking through common stall cores).

    Firstly, try a Calm Mind + Wish set on Jirachi. Your current set isn't really doing much IMO. You give plenty of threats the chance to set-up, and once you Trick away the Scarf, you leave yourself unable to revenge numerous threats, with the team lacking quite a bit in speed. CM + Wish Rachi helps you out against Reuniclus, helping you come out on top as its only way of hitting you is a low pp Focus Blast, while you can smack it with boosted Flash Cannon. Stall teams also have quite a lot of trouble getting past this variant, especially with the Spikes support. Jirachi also provides the invaluable Wish support, while sharing great synergy with Latias, as most people will believe Tyranitar is a good switch in, and instead get KOed by Flash Cannon, opening a sweep for Latias.

    Go with HP Fire over Substitute and Roost over Reflect Type. Latias absolutely needs the recovery to take on Rotom-W better and the longevity it provides is unvaluable. HP Fire means you get rid off Ferrothorn who are expecting the more common Roar, and open the path for Jirachi. It also gives the common spikers less set-up chances. Move Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn over any of its other moves. Taunt over Acrobatics on Gliscor is also a good option, as you already cover all types between EQ + Facade, and Taunt makes it even easier to face stall teams.

    Lastly, try out a Choice Scarf Heatran over your current set. This will help you defeat SD Toxicroak with Earth Power and 2HKO Quiver Dance Volcarona with HP Rock. Although it may seem like a gimmicky choice, I think you'll find it beneficial as it helps you quite a bit with the remaining threats. It still maintains the offensive power of your current set, with the cost of locking yourself into one move, though the speed is much appreciated by your relatively slow team. Dugtrio+Sun teams will also be in for a surprise, for you can KO Dugtrio with Overheat, thinking you're some pansy specially defensive Heatran. Offensive Volcarona will be 2HKOed even after a boost (beware of HP Ground variants!), so Bulky variants are the only problem, but Gastrodon can take a hit from them, and cripple with Toxic. A secondary check to Thundurus is always nice as well. Scrafty is still somewhat annoying though. However, Heatran does up to 83% with Overheat, and it can't set-up on Jirachi anymore, especially with the immense physical bulk. So it barely gets any set-up chances.

    Movesets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Bold | EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 12 SpA / 68 Spe
    Wish | Calm Mind | Flash Cannon | Thunderbolt
    **Credit to BKC for the set; I saw it in one of his rates

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Scarf | Timid | EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Overheat | Hidden Power Rock | Earth Power| Dragon Pulse
  21. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,602
    Hi,

    This looks like a really fun team, and is presented in a very appealing way, good effort on that! The first thing I see with your team is the use of rather old spreads and sets that are reflective of an earlier BW metagame, one that has changed a lot. TR / CM Reuniclus, Landorus and Terrakion look like pretty big threats to me, as are teams that rely on residual damage or Toxic damage, such as Rain Stall. Mamoswine is also a slight issue if Jirachi is weakened. The first order of business is fixing the Reuniclus weakness, which can be done by giving Latias an EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe, and Roar over Reflect Type and Recover over Substitute. As much as Reflect Type helps against Pursuit users, the benefits of Roar on a team that has lots of hazards far outweigh the risks of playing a Pursuit user. Additionally, Jirachi should use a different moveset of Grass Knot | Thunder Wave | Iron Head | Fire Punch to nail pokemon like Gastrodon, Scizor and Quagsire, who would otherwise ruin your potential Latias sweep ( which is what I feel this team centralizes around by the end game). EVs of 108 HP / 148 Atk / 100 SAtk / 56 SDef / 96 Spd and a lonely naturewould be fine. The next thing that I would suggest is using a Specially Defensive Heatran, which is much more useful in this metagame to counter Volcarona and tank off strong hits. With a moveset of Lava Plume | Stealth Rock | Roar | Toxic and EVs at 252 HP / 8 Spe / 248 SpD, it takes hits well, and gives you Stealth Rocks again.

    Gastrodon in your team is slighty redundant, since it covers stallers and Starmie/Rain that Ferrothorn can handle already, which is why I propose changing it to a Scarf Rotom-w, which will give your team much needed speed and a solid Mamoswine/gliscor/landorus/terrakion/Dragonite counter. With a moveset of Trick | HP Ice | Volt Switch | Hydro Pump, you cover the aforementioned threats, and now have the same ability as Scarf Jirachi did in crippling stall. However, by making this change, you will need to watch out for allowing Starmie breathing space/low health on your own mons, since it can become an issue, sweeping your whole team.

    Ferrothorn should use Gyro Ball w/ 0 Speed IVs over Thunder Wave to hit Haxorus and Gliscor should try a moveset of Swords Dance | Taunt | Earthquake | Ice Fang, to break stall and prevent hazards from going up, which can become an issue. Hopefully this rate was decent, good luck!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)