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Pokémon Delphox

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Upstart, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    [​IMG]
    Name:
    Delphox
    Type: Fire / Psychic
    Ability: Blaze / Magician
    Base Stats: 75 / 69 / 72 / 114 / 100 / 104

    Noteable Movepool

    text (open)
    Switcheroo
    Shadow Ball
    Flamethrower
    Will-O-Wisp
    Psychic
    Fire Blast
    Psyshock
    Calm Mind
    Magic Coat
    Wish
    Hypnosis
    Toxic
    Grass Knot


    The final evolution of the early favorite in the battle of the starters. She unlike previous fire starter forgoes boxing gloves for a wand. Her stats are similar to the fire starters of old with good speed, special attack and special defense. Surprisingly Fire / Psychic has both offensive and defensive synergy made even better by the introduction of Fairy type.

    Possible Moveset:

    Everything I Do Is Magic

    text (open)
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature: Timid
    Evs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    Moveset:
    Calm Mind
    Fire Blast
    Shadow Ball
    Psyshock

    I would try to make a Gandalf reference but I don't want to butcher a Lord of the Rings Reference. This set simple attempts to further bolster Delphox's great special attack and special defense. Her great speed gives her and interesting speed tier. On one hand she could invest in bulk or invest directly into special attack and speed to deal maximum damage. Her movepool has relatively great coverage while Psyshock allows her to punish dedicated special walls


    Make Your Choice Sorting Hat
    text (open)
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature: Timid
    Evs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Moveset:
    Switcheroo
    Fire Blast
    Shadow Ball
    Psyshock

    Delphox can become a great revenge killer due to its useful speed tier or gain the ability to nuke without set up. Switcheroo replaces Calm Mind as a means to disrupt your opponents strategy.


    Other Options:
    text (open)
    It is becoming more and more evident that Delphox has quite a support move pool. Wish and Magic Coat can prove crucial in gaining momentum in a match.


    Support:
    text (open)
    Doesn't Like Stealth Rocks but greatly enjoying hazards of its own


    Checks and Counters
    text (open)
    Without a boost several bulky mons can switch in and tank Delphox's attacks. Unfortunately after a boost Delphox becomes quite fearsome. Tyrannitar is one of her best counters must be weary of grass knots.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  2. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I don't really see the point of going with Shadow Ball over Grass Knot for coverage. With Shadow Ball, Tyranitar can come in completely for free and you can deal with Bulky Waters much easier than with Shadow Ball (I think Jellicent takes the same damage from both moves). Bulky Psychics and Ghosts take a lot of damage from it, but STAB Fire Blast actually hits them harder. Things like Vaporeon and Manaphy would still be a pain due to their low weight, but Shadow Ball doesn't help against them, either.

    Also, if it gets Focus Blast, that will also be a good option for dealing with Tyranitar, but won't do as much to bulky Waters.
    Kooltrex, MikeDawg and alexwolf like this.
  3. Monster Guy

    Monster Guy

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    It doesn't get Focus Blast unfortunately. :/
  4. nikovan

    nikovan

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    Does it get any Fairy moves? That 80 BP Fairy TM given after the 6th gym, Dazzling something. Dazzling Gleam? IDK. It would be pretty nice seeing how it gets rid of annoying dark types trying to pursuit trap or attack straight away.

    However, I don't see this one being anything above UU, and that;s being optimistic. I don't see impressive stats, movepool or niche it can fill. It can, however, KO the last three generations' Fire Starters with its STAB, so that's something, lol.
    Kooltrex and Luigifan like this.
  5. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

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    The only niche I can see from what is provided is a decent specs set since it has just enough power, speed, and access to switcheroo to mess with some strategies. This would face competition with other specs users though.
    KingHeracrossTheBug and Kooltrex like this.
  6. Bombkirby

    Bombkirby

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    Is "Magician" really that simple? She just gets a free "Thief" when she attacks?
  7. Naglfar

    Naglfar

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    does anyone know if magician delphox could use up a fire gem or something and steal an item with the same attack? I hear mega stones can't be stolen, and stealing choice items might lead to more trouble than anything, aaaaand stealing a life orb or leftovers sounds underwhelming... it's probably a trash ability, but it sounds like it might be fun/situationally playable.
  8. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    According to the research thread she does not receive Dazzling Gem. And I completely agree that she will not be cutting it in OU. Her lack of a true niche forces her into the lower tiers. She can however do very well in RU (she just can't compete with Victini or the nuke that is Chandelure).

    Naglfar I am also very curious about the mechanics of Magician. Once i find a dw Braixen I will be able to test but hopefully someone from research will be able to figure out the mechanics before than.
    Kooltrex and Luigifan like this.
  9. Aldrius

    Aldrius

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    Well, she's got a very different movepool than either of those pokemon. Will-o-wisp alone is pretty cool with the accuracy boost and her high speed (she is faster than Victini and WAY faster than Chandelure). So while she may not make for a better sweeper than them, I think she'll fill her own little niche as more of a support pokemon. She also gets calm mind.

    OU-wise she's totally outclassed by Volcarona, though. He learns almost all the same moves and has the same stats but better. Psychic and bug also provide the same key resistance (fighting). In fact, her psychic typing is a huge problem with her pursuit and shadow sneak weaknesses. Though she has less problems with stealth rock obviously.

    Her ability is neat, but obviously some clarification and testing is important. Stealing evoilite or a choice scarf could be really handy in crippling an enemy, and she doesn't need to take up a move slot for something weak like thief, trick or switcheroo. My only concern is that it's mandatory. She could wind up KOing a Scizor and stealing it's choice band or something like that. It's an interesting and unique trait that I think could give her some use in higher tiers.
    Kooltrex, Luigifan and Jaguar360 like this.
  10. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Magician seems like it duplicates Knock Off without taking a moveslot or a turn, but it's a lot harder to use in exchange. With Knock Off's buff, it might be easier to use that instead...

    Do we have any idea about Magician's activation rate, if it's 100% or anything else?
    Luigifan likes this.
  11. GuilherWolfang

    GuilherWolfang

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    If magicians activation is 100% then a see it as a good pokemon that will almost always counter a pokemon in the opposing team.

    A sweeper you can't stop? you can steal his choice item/life orb and he don't make more 0HKO so easily. A wall with leftovers and you don't have a teammate that can hit it SE? you get the healing for yourself and can bring a pokemon with a strong neutral to wear it down.

    I see it like Choice scarf impostor Ditto, it can always counter something on the opponent team. Maybe not OU, but UU probably.
    Kooltrex, Luigifan, Jaguar360 and 4 others like this.
  12. Bombkirby

    Bombkirby

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    The ability may also force people to avoid using their Evolite pokemon (Chansey/Porygon2) which are more common in lower tiers to tank it's attacks. In the mean time you can hold onto your fire gem until said Pokemon rear their ugly faces.
    Luigifan likes this.
  13. Majestic Electric

    Majestic Electric

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    While I agree with you about Shadow Ball being kinda redundant, I dont think Grass Knot would be helpful in the long run. Don't forget about Hidden Powers! :) HP (Grass) would be more viable because its power is not affected by the opponent's weight.
  14. mikereyes

    mikereyes

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    First time posting in a discussion thread (used to do battles here) but I found something interesting.

    Fennekin gets Wish via Egg Moves. It might not work on her but I thought it'd be notable info. Fennekin can also breed with Eevee, making it faster than the usual Wish Pichu->Pikachu->Eevee route.

    For clarity's sake, I used a Smeargle and Braixen.
  15. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Except most of the targets you want to hit with the grass move (outside of Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon) are going to take more from Grass Knot than that - and those three take the same. So there's literally no point.
  16. Lazyboy0337

    Lazyboy0337

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    Only problem I see if that you can't use a fire type attack until you want to steal. Maybe HP Fighting or something since Chansey and Porygon2 are both Normal while holding a fighting gem?
  17. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo official grad of uni of keeping it fuckin real
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    It drives me crazy that people are saying this won't be OU , I'll post more of how fucking rediculous this thing is later, but RU seriously? this thing has a perfect enough combo of STABs, speed, power and movepool to destroy the current RU and UU tiers, come the fuck on people, these threads have been way too negetive recently
    Kooltrex, subfer1 and SkylarRayye like this.
  18. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Victini has the same combination, and it's UU. That's where I think this one will end up. Remember, things that were OU in the last gen will move down, and things that were lower might move up, changing the face of the metagame.
    Karxrida likes this.
  19. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo official grad of uni of keeping it fuckin real
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    What the fuck does victini have to do with this? Just because they have the same type combo means they play the same AT ALL. seriously, victini, chandalure and delphox play worlds differently from each other
  20. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    True, but Victini has the same STABs, lots of power and speed, and a great movepool (Delphox has NOTHING to compare to Searing Shot and Fusion Bolt, much less V-Create and Bolt Strike.)
    Karxrida likes this.
  21. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo official grad of uni of keeping it fuckin real
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    Lets ignore all of delphox's good traits and compare it to a pokemon that doesn't even play the same roll as it at all, sure why not
  22. Pen Ink

    Pen Ink

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    what victini cannot do, though, is be a very good calm mind sweeper so i don't really get why you think these two pokemon are in any way comparable?
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  23. Quaily

    Quaily

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    I have been lamenting the competitive value of delphox, or rather the lack of it. the op says 105-110 speed, but everything I have seen puts it at 100 speed which just is not enough. it's going to get outsped and OHKO'd by numerous ou threats that resist fire and have stab against it like garchomp, starmie, keldeo, and terrakion, which is a damn shame because the thief ability and resistance to bullet and mach punch would make it a great sweeper. You're probably better off going with nasty plot infernape. It might find a home in uu, luckily it has just enough speed to not get hard countered by houndoom.

    it might get aura sphere http://i.imgur.com/q4EwjPD.jpg which I would definitely use over psyshock. it can already make blissey not want to switch in by stealing her leftovers.

    actually that site looks a lot like blind speculation, but I have seen the 100 speed pretty much everywhere
  24. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    I know with 100% certainty that she does not get nasty plot and aura sphere.
  25. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    I'd say this is probably solidly UU, particularly if its base speed is the high-end of the estimate (105). It has good power, great special bulk and overall seems to have a similar stat distribution to Masmagius, a well-known and dangerous UU-level sweeper, while also having a solid offensive movepool. I reckon this could be a dangerous UU threat since it (probably) outspeeds and threatens powerful UU pokemon like Zapdos, Mew and Shaymin (and a few notable OU Pokemon as well). Additionally, if Ninetales drops to UU as many are predicting it will, it would easily turn Delphox into a powerful sun sweeper.

    Let's also not forget that with the potential rising popularity of Poison types and Steel types, Delphox's advantage over BOTH of those typings could see it becoming a great partner for Fairy types like Florges and Sylveon. Delphox would have considerable competition from Victini, sure, but Delphox's superior speed and SpA would see it through enough that it would never get TOO low in the tiering, with Victini basically relegated to physical / mixed sweeping to set itself apart from the fox.

    Just my two cents.
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