4 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 164-194 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's why you hit it on the switch with Psychic/Psyshock.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Delphox
- Thread starter Upstart
- Start date
- Status
That's why you hit it on the switch with Psychic/Psyshock.
Erm, could you explain what that set is supposed to do? It's no good posting random sets like that, without saying something about it. I'd also rather have Will-O-Wisp in that last slot for shenanigans. Rocky Helmet is useless because it has no physical bulk and it will be targeted by Stone Edges and Earthquakes mostly.
I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I think this set is the perfect mixture of attacker vs nuisance that appears to be delphox's niche. Its definitely a gimmick but it does have some useful applications.
Delphox @ Power Herb | Magician
Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Solarbeam
-Flamethrower
-Psychic
-Switcheroo
Flamethrower and Psychic are self explanatory, two strong STABs. Solarbeam steals the opponent's item whilst also hitting any water type switch-ins really hard, and Delphox can get several items which it can then switcheroo later in the match (choice scarf from rotom-w switchins is one of the best examples, both stripping rotom of a useful item as well as gaining a powerful tool for switcheroo later). The ability to steal eviolites from chansey switch-ins is useful too, and this can be passed off to another wall in replacement for its leftovers. This wont always work, but considering the high use of rotom-w this set is a pretty good lure to it.
Specs is also a good steal as it both benefits delphox and can be passed on to cripple an opponent, and band is not a bad grab either. Ultimately no item stolen is "bad" (as even the negative items like black sludge can be switcheroo'd onto someone else) but stealing leftovers is a lot less impactful than stealing a choice item. If you can predict a switch-in and get a good item then delphox can be quite useful.
Delphox @ Power Herb | Magician
Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Solarbeam
-Flamethrower
-Psychic
-Switcheroo
Flamethrower and Psychic are self explanatory, two strong STABs. Solarbeam steals the opponent's item whilst also hitting any water type switch-ins really hard, and Delphox can get several items which it can then switcheroo later in the match (choice scarf from rotom-w switchins is one of the best examples, both stripping rotom of a useful item as well as gaining a powerful tool for switcheroo later). The ability to steal eviolites from chansey switch-ins is useful too, and this can be passed off to another wall in replacement for its leftovers. This wont always work, but considering the high use of rotom-w this set is a pretty good lure to it.
Specs is also a good steal as it both benefits delphox and can be passed on to cripple an opponent, and band is not a bad grab either. Ultimately no item stolen is "bad" (as even the negative items like black sludge can be switcheroo'd onto someone else) but stealing leftovers is a lot less impactful than stealing a choice item. If you can predict a switch-in and get a good item then delphox can be quite useful.
This is gonna take a while. All of these arguments will take place in the context of OU, since a lot of the pokemon listed are OU.
Delphox at best 2HKOS both of those therian genies. Even with +1, it cannot score an OHKO on either of them, and Landorus will always OHKO in return, and Thundurus always will if SR is up. No dice. It's outdamaged. Same goes for garchomp, as has been shown many times in this thread. Delphox has no business switching in on a garchomp unless things are really down to the wire.
Both Charizard megas also are barely 2HKOD by delphox's attacks. Theirs get a little dicier because of their extreme weakness to SR; however, any team worth their salt running a m-charizard is probably dedicated as hell to keeping SR off their side of the field. If you've managed to keep SR up on their side, anything faster can take out m-Charizard. No reason to have it be Delphox. Both of them also outdamage delphox, and M-CharX cleanly OHKOS.
If you are running Delphox against palkias, M-Blazikens, M-Kanghas, and the like, lol good luck with your ubers delphox team
As I said in my earlier post, tentacruel is irrelevant since it almost never runs max speed. Same with celebi, who is unlikely to stay in on victini or delphox anyway. Jirachi is also unlikely to stay in on either of them, as is un-scarfed Shaymin.
I'll admit i forgot manaphy; in counterpoint, though, what the hell are you doing fighting a manaphy with a delphox. At least victini has fusion bolt/thunderbolt. Unboosted, none of Delphoxs moves even 2HKO manaphy. Again, best of luck, man.
Regigigas's got slow start. If you've (1) actually come across a regigigas and (2) let it go five free turns to get the boost, then really, do whatever you want. Me telling you about delphox is not going to fix the base problems you have.
Entei is barely 2HKOD at best and OHKOS in return. Even with SR up, you're not killing it. Not even counting that it gets E Speed, which outdamages everything Delphox does in return, making speed irrelevant.
Mega-Gardevoir, Salamence, and Flygon are all 2HKOD at best, and again, just barely. Both dragons can OHKO in return. M-Gardevoir outdamages and has recovery.
I will concede that Delphox beats ninetails and typhlosion. However, so does just about every other good offensive pokemon. Shouldn't be relying on Delphox to beat these kinds of pokemon.
offensive zapdos slightly outdamages delphox, who again barely nets a 2HKO. Zapdos also gets instant reliable recovery, and defensive zapdos straight up walls delphox.
Miltank nearly never run max speed. And it has instant reliable recovery, which when paired with leftovers means it can wall unboosted delphox infinitely barring crits.
Unless you're switching in your Delphox at the exact same time your opponent switches in a Volcarona, chances are good it will already be at +1 or greater speed and able to OHKO you. However, I can see maybe in this instance along with my previously conceded M-Medicham, just maybe it'll be useful if Volcarona is unboosted. Not nearly enough to warrant a spot on a team over Victini, though.
I also completely concede on Voltorb. I can't believe I forgot voltorb, probably the most centralising threat in the OU meta right now. I'm actually really glad you brought this up. I was trying my best to find a pokemon that could counter it, and now I know I can rely on Delphox. Thank god.
tl;dr speed doesn't matter worth jack if you don't have the strength, typing, and movepool to back it up. Point still stands.
PS also should say all hypotheticals run with the more reliable sub+3 attack/subCM set that isn't pursuit bait
Last edited:
The only ones that come to mind that could be at all useful besides Grass Knot are Shadow Ball and Hidden Power, based on the Serebii profile of Delphox.
Delphox just did not get the good end of the straw in terms of a movepool (and the 10 base lower of Hidden Power)
Lacks the power and coverage to be an all-out sweeper, lacks the typing and defenses to be a bulky attacker. The one special thing it has, Magician, is gimmicky at best and can be done better with Trick.
Think of anything Delphox can do that isn't done better by Victini and/or either of the Mega 'Zards. The one thing it has on them is like 4 base speed, and as Todd's post above demonstrates, Delphox cannot reliably defeat any relevant threats that it outspeeds, so it might as well not have it. And this is on top of being completely massacred by Tyranitar and walled by Heatran, two very, very common pokemon.
There is nothing it can do that something else doesn't already do better, it is pursuit weak, has a terrible move pool compared to Victini and the 'Zards and is either out damaged by, or just can't get past common OU pokemon, despite outspeeding then. It really has no place in OU, but it will probably do well in lower tiers (hopefully).
delphox is designed as a special sweeper yet it cannot fill that roll in ou, or even uu. fire/psychic is a poor typing for both offense and defense with bad coverage stabs that leave it completely walled by numerous common threats like heatran, starmie, lati@s, ttar, and more. defensively fire/psychic is atrocious so it can't switch in easily either since it has weaknesses to extremely common attack types.
Can't Delphox just take the Air Balloon on the turn Heatran uses Earth Power?
Hypothetically yes, but then what exactly could Delphox actually do in return?
True, but if it hits me with anything else, he'll pop it and I still have no chance of one or two shooting it, so either way he wins.
Switch
Sooo... Nothing? Besides, phox is SR weak so Heatran is just going to get SR set up and ruin Delphox. Even if you switch Heatran will just show up again anyway when Delphox comes in since he fears nothing that Delphox can run outside of HP Ground.
I'm not sure if you're kidding whenever you post (I have to assume you are, because these sets are kind of awful). You just say one attack or post one set without damage calcs or even actually saying anything about it and what it's supposed to do. Anyway, he best things Delphox can do against Heatran are HP Ground (countered by Air Balloon) or Switcheroo-ing a hindering item.
I only see Switcheroo + Choice item being usable in OU, mainly to cripple Walls... Other than that, her place is in UU or quite possibly in BL. Delphox is sort of too good in UU...sort of. Magician is overrated, only being usable when giving Delphox a Fire Gem, Focus Sash or weakness Berry (don't know the proper term for the berry thing), at best. Though her Speed is just right to outrun some threats in OU, her lack of power stops her from actually being good in OU. Though with a Calm Mind boost or two, she could be a good sweeper. But weakness to Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak really stop her from being a truly good sweeper in OU. This is just my speculation and others might have already brought all this up, so... Oh, notable checks and counters are Specially Defensive Heatran, Absol (Mega or not), Lati twins, Manaphy, Starmie, Houndoom, Vaporeon, Entei, Hydreigon and quite possibly Landorus-T. I could be wrong and miss a few Pokemon...
Last edited:
Max Speed Timid Delphox with Scarf outspeeds Scarfed Genesect. Definitely OHKO's with Flamethrower. So could be a great lead against teams with Genesect.
And yeah, as much as I love Delphox due to her design and typing, I have to admit it's not a good pokemon in the OU tier, a calm mind set also has a lot of problems in UU, because it can't take any physical hits whatsoever. So I go with the choice scarfed set with Flame Thrower, Psychic, Shadowball/grass knot and Switcheroo.
It would have been much better, if Magician worked with the gems the way it should. But as far as I know it has been tested, that after using the Gem Delphox doesn't steal the item right away.
On top of that Knock off got this almost rediculous boost and is used anywhere, so Delphox doesn't have as good of an option to cripple potential walls as a for example Bisharp...or basicially any other Knock off user.
And yeah, as much as I love Delphox due to her design and typing, I have to admit it's not a good pokemon in the OU tier, a calm mind set also has a lot of problems in UU, because it can't take any physical hits whatsoever. So I go with the choice scarfed set with Flame Thrower, Psychic, Shadowball/grass knot and Switcheroo.
It would have been much better, if Magician worked with the gems the way it should. But as far as I know it has been tested, that after using the Gem Delphox doesn't steal the item right away.
On top of that Knock off got this almost rediculous boost and is used anywhere, so Delphox doesn't have as good of an option to cripple potential walls as a for example Bisharp...or basicially any other Knock off user.
The only reason to even consider using delphox over victini is calm mind and mystical fire. In ou it is way too easily massacred by anything that everybody runs. In UU, Mystical fire combines perfectly with substitute and calm mind it tends to have some pretty decent results when I used it. in ou though its too easily wrecked by pretty much everything and their mom. Dragon types, Talonflame, heatran, Tyranitar, aegislash, keldeo, tornadus, garchomp, Megazard X azumarill, etc.
I tried to see what I could come up with that would be unique and at least somewhat usable, but I could only kind of come up with troll sets.
Delphox@Leftovers/Air Balloon
Magician
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpA
~ Substitute
~ Will - O - Wisp
~ Mystic Fire
~ Wish/Light Screen/Switcheroo
If only she got Knock Off. Anyway, go as bulky as you can manage and then from behind Substitute throw out WoWs and Mystic Fires to hamper the opponent on both sides of the spectrum. We are going for annoyer rather than power. With lowered offenses it should become feasible to heal with Wish fairly regularly from behind Substitutes, otherwise you can just use Light Screen for your team, or Switcheroo for item hijinks. If using Switcheroo than opt for Air Balloon. This is the more usable of the two sets.
Delphox@Wide Lens/Petaya Berry/Leftovers
Magician
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpA
Modest 4 Df / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
~ Substitute
~ Hypnosis
~ Fire Spin
~ Dream Eater
Force a switch somehow and get a sub up. Use Fire Spin to trap and get your Hypnosis off from behind Substitutes. Now use a powerful Dream Eater and restore your health. Wide Lens increases accuracy to help with Fire Spin and Hypnosis. Zoom Lens is an option if you want to make yourself as slow as possible and get 20% better accuracy rather than 10%. If your Sub gets low enough to eat a Petaya Berry to help with the damage from Dream Eater, and you'll be able to steal Leftovers afterwards hopefully. Or simply use Leftovers to begin with. Gimmicky as hell.
Delphox@Leftovers/Air Balloon
Magician
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpA
~ Substitute
~ Will - O - Wisp
~ Mystic Fire
~ Wish/Light Screen/Switcheroo
If only she got Knock Off. Anyway, go as bulky as you can manage and then from behind Substitute throw out WoWs and Mystic Fires to hamper the opponent on both sides of the spectrum. We are going for annoyer rather than power. With lowered offenses it should become feasible to heal with Wish fairly regularly from behind Substitutes, otherwise you can just use Light Screen for your team, or Switcheroo for item hijinks. If using Switcheroo than opt for Air Balloon. This is the more usable of the two sets.
Delphox@Wide Lens/Petaya Berry/Leftovers
Magician
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpA
Modest 4 Df / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
~ Substitute
~ Hypnosis
~ Fire Spin
~ Dream Eater
Force a switch somehow and get a sub up. Use Fire Spin to trap and get your Hypnosis off from behind Substitutes. Now use a powerful Dream Eater and restore your health. Wide Lens increases accuracy to help with Fire Spin and Hypnosis. Zoom Lens is an option if you want to make yourself as slow as possible and get 20% better accuracy rather than 10%. If your Sub gets low enough to eat a Petaya Berry to help with the damage from Dream Eater, and you'll be able to steal Leftovers afterwards hopefully. Or simply use Leftovers to begin with. Gimmicky as hell.
I have only ever run two Oracle sets: Sub+3attacks which worked decently well & Switcharoo+Specs which wrecked teams with FireBlast. Yeah its an okay pokemon but thats a bout it to me. With a small movepool and challenged by the better Victini....Delphox will be low UU and thats simply for its stats and Magician. Still i thoroughly wnjoy the wallbreaking Specs set. Its fun 2HKO mega-blastoise on the switch with 2 Fireblasts
- Status