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Deoxys-A (2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by polop, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. polop

    polop
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    Ready for GP Checks! 1 Amateur check by tehy, another by CB terrakion, an official check by gatodelfuego, and Oglemi
    [​IMG]
    Still bulkier then a Carvanah
    QC Approved: Tobes, trickroom
    Vox gets credit for original analysis, I kept most of his prose and have his permission to use it (I tried to make life a little easier for you GPers :P). Everything has been changed.

    [Overview]

    <p>The epitome of offense, Deoxys-A is a true powerhouse in every sense of the word. Between its unrivaled base 180 attacking stats (the highest in the game), blistering base 150 Speed, and fantastic movepool, including the coveted ExtremeSpeed, Deoxys-A has everything it needs to tear gaping holes in the opposing team. Stealth Rock and Spikes let it serve as a suicide or attacking lead with unparalleled offenses, being able to ward off every user of Rapid Spin and Magic Bounce in the game! Unfortunately, its poor typing and practically nonexistent defenses offer no defensive synergy to its team, and since even relatively weak neutral attacks will easily knock it out, it usually needs extensive team support to pull off a clean sweep. The fact that it is easily revenge killed by users of Choice Scarf and priority moves—even Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave—also make it difficult for Deoxys-A to find a place on a team. Couple this with the fact Deoxys-A is walled by certain Pokemon depending on what move it forgoes and you can see why it's rarely seen in the Ubers tier. These faults aside, however, Deoxys-A is certainly a threat to prepare for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Focus Sash Attacker
    move 1: Psycho Boost
    move 2: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse
    move 3: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: ExtremeSpeed
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Presenting Deoxys-A's bread and butter set, one of the tier's premier offensive anti-leads. This set can take on most leads in the current metagame and come out on top. If you thought Draco Meteor spam was impressive, think again: Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost is even more powerful, and does an immense amount of damage to anything that isn't outright immune to Psychic. For reference, Psycho Boost does 90.6% - 106.8% to Rayquaza! Ice Beam and Dark Pulse both improve Deoxys-A's coverage by allowing it to hit Latios and Latias. The former also provides Deoxys-A with a move to hit Rayquaza and Groudon outside of Psycho Boost while the latter allows Deoxys-A to hit its Psychic brethren, namely Deoxys-S, Deoxys, and Cresselia, super effectively, all the while providing a handy 20% flinch chance. Superpower is a move similar to Psycho Boost, albeit physically based, and hits Steel- and Dark-types that resist or are immune to Psycho Boost for super effective damage. This notably allows Deoxys-A to revenge kill non-Focus Sash Darkrai. Hidden Power Fire allows Deoxys-A to quickly OHKO Forretress and Ferrothorn. It should be noted that if Deoxys-A lacks Hidden Power Fire, then it will have great difficulty hurting Forretress, as it resists all other moves Deoxys-A can throw at it barring Superpower&mdash;which it easily absorbs thanks to its high Defense. However, without Superpower, Deoxys-A will find itself walled by Chansey. ExtremeSpeed is great for taking out weakened opponents such as Focus Sash Deoxys-S, and lands a decent hit on Choice Scarf users attempting to revenge kill Deoxys-A. It also provides mid-game revenge killing utility should Deoxys-A survive that long, which happens surprisingly often. However, it can be replaced with a coverage move if your team doesn't have much trouble with revenge killers and doesn't mind Deoxys-S nabbing an extra layer of Spikes on you.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Speed and Special Attack with a Naive nature are used to make the most of Deoxys-A's amazing offensive stats, as its Defense is so poor that it will not survive any hits; in any case, it utilizes a Focus Sash. The remaining 4 EVs should go into Attack to boost Superpower and ExtremeSpeed. In particular, this Speed investment allows Deoxys-A to outspeed Modest Choice Scarf Kyogre and other neutral-natured base 90 Speed Choice Scarf users. A Rash nature, however, is also usable. An alternative spread of 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe with a Rash nature allows Deoxys-A to still outpace Mewtwo and other base 130 Speed Pokemon, taking into account Hidden Power Fire's imperfect Speed IV. Using max Speed in tandem with Hidden Power Fire with a Rash nature is not advised, as the point lost in Speed will prevent a Speed tie with opposing Deoxys-A, the only common Pokemon with base 150 Speed, so dropping to 395 Speed (just above the base 130 Speed tier) and shifting the remaining EVs to Attack is the preferred choice. Deoxys-A also has the option of running Magic Coat, Fire Punch, Thunder, Grass Knot, or Ice Punch. Magic Coat allows Deoxys-A to reflect Spikes and Dark Void back at Deoxys-S and Darkrai respectively, if you can predict correctly. Fire Punch provides solid coverage while preserving perfect IVs, but it will be slightly weaker than Hidden Power Fire due to unequal offensive investment. Thunder is reliant on rain, but it allows Deoxys-A to hit enemy Deoxys, Forretress, Kyogre, Lugia, and Ho-Oh hard. Grass Knot allows Deoxys-A to always OHKO defensive Groudon without the Psycho Boost stat drops, but its inability to hit Steel-types burdens Deoxys-A. Lastly, Ice Punch can be used over Ice Beam solely for enemy Latios and Latias.</p>

    <p>As a dedicated lead, Deoxys-A does not require much support from the team. Should you forgo Magic Coat, a sleep absorber will be necessary, as Choice Scarf Darkrai will outspeed and incapacitate Deoxys-A with Dark Void before it can use Superpower. RestTalk + Calm Mind Kyogre is a great teammate in this regard as it does not mind being put to sleep and can retaliate with Sleep Talk, either drowning Darkrai with Scald or setting up for an early sweep with Calm Mind. Beware of switching Kyogre into a Trick, however, as a Choice item will cripple it. If Deoxys-A lacks Hidden Power Fire, lead Scizor can also cause problems; fortunately, a defensive Kyogre is generally an apt switch-in to most Scizor as well. Though not commonly seen as leads, Giratina-O and Extreme Killer Arceus can take Deoxys-A out with consecutive Shadow Sneaks and ExtremeSpeeds respectively, but Psycho Boost will deal severe damage to them. Dialga can easily switch into a resisted Shadow Sneak and scare Giratina-O out or OHKO with STAB Dragon-type moves. While entry hazards may seem odd on an attacking lead, the immense offensive threat Deoxys-A presents can often force switches, which gives it an opportunity to get Stealth Rock or a layer of Spikes onto the field.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sash Lead
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Psycho Boost
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Superpower
    move 4: Ice Beam / ExtremeSpeed / Dark Pulse
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deoxys-A's ability to force many switches and access to entry hazards, coupled with the ability to destroy all users of Rapid Spin and Magic Bounce, allows it to become a fantastic user of Stealth Rock and Spikes. The decision between Stealth Rock and Spikes is based on your team's needs. Stealth Rock takes only one turn to setup, and affects all types of Pokemon. Spikes, on the other hand, deals consistent damage to all non-Flying-type Pokemon. Psycho Boost hits extremely hard, and allows Deoxys-A to deal heavy damage to enemy leads. The third slot is reserved for Deoxys-A's coverage needs. Both moves allow Deoxys-A to hit Steel-types, but both have their notable attributes. Superpower allows Deoxys-A to dent Dialga and OHKO enemy Tyranitar, while Hidden Power Fire can bring Forretress down to Sturdy and OHKO enemy Ferrothorn. It should be noted that both Superpower and Hidden Power Fire can take up the last two slots if you wish to have insurance against Tyranitar, Dialga, Forretress, and Ferrothorn. The last slot is also based on the team's needs. Ice Beam allows Deoxys-A to OHKO Rayquaza and crush Groudon without resorting to Psycho Boost. ExtremeSpeed 2HKOes Deoxys-S, and limits the amount of hazards it can setup. Lastly, Dark Pulse provides solid coverage against enemy Psychic-types, notably Deoxys-D, who would otherwise have no problem setting up hazards against Deoxys-A.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As a suicide lead, Deoxys-A doesn't really need teammates to help it do its job, but there are many teammates that appreciate hazards on the field. Sweepers such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Extreme Killer Arceus enjoy having hazards on the opponent's side of the field, as it greatly helps them sweep the opposition. This coupled with Deoxys-A's ability to prevent hazards from going up on its side of the field (thanks to the fact its foes will try to knock it out to avoid getting mauled), allows Deoxys-A to even better help a Pokemon sweep. There are, however, a few teammates Deoxys-A needs. A spinblocker such as Giratina or Ghost Arceus is needed so that the hazards Deoxys-A sets up will not be spun away. Additionally, Pokemon that can switch into priority moves, such as Shadow Sneak or ExtremeSpeed, are welcome. Dialga, in particular, makes a great partner. It can easily switch into a Shadow Sneak from Giratina and threaten to OHKO back with Draco Meteor. Dialga can also threaten any users of Rapid Spin with Fire Blast and Draco Meteor and provide Stealth Rock support, which allows Deoxys-A to run Spikes.</p>

    <p>Deoxys-A can run moves not listed on the set, but note that Deoxys-A will lose coverage. There is only one viable move not listed, and that is Thunder, which can be used in the fourth slot as a hybrid between Dark Pulse and Hidden Power Fire. Thunder is Deoxys-A's strongest move against Skarmory, and allows Deoxys-A to hit enemy Psychic- and Steel-types neutrally, hitting Forretress a lot harder then Superpower. Thunder, however, is reliant on rain, and since this Deoxys-A is designed to lead, it may be impossible to make Thunder accurate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Psycho Boost
    move 2: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: ExtremeSpeed / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>For a Pokemon that can't take a hit but has unparalleled power, what better item is there than Life Orb? Such an attacking set is one of Deoxys-A's best options, and its execution is simple: simply select the correct coverage move and decimate the opponent. Psycho Boost is the preferred move, as it provides STAB and acts much like Latios's Draco Meteor in OU: spam it and things die. Ice Beam is useful for its great coverage over the tier, OHKOing Pokemon such as Groudon, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, Garchomp, and Zekrom without resorting to Psycho Boost, while also giving Deoxys-A the best chance to 2HKO specially defensive Giratina and hitting Latios and Latias hard. Dark Pulse, on the other hand, allows Deoxys-A to defeat all of its Psychic brethren, 2HKOing Deoxys-D and Cresselia, Pokemon that Deoxys-A otherwise struggles to defeat, while also hitting Latios hard and even OHKOing offensive Mewtwo. It is also Deoxys-A's only move aside from Shadow Ball that can OHKO offensive Mewtwo. Superpower allows Deoxys-A to OHKO Chansey, Darkrai, and Blissey while providing Deoxys-A with the ability to hit Steel-types super effectively. The final slot is a toss-up; Hidden Power Fire provides coverage against Ferrothorn in situations where the Attack drop from Superpower is not welcome and OHKOes Forretress outside of Sturdy, but it only nabs the OHKO on both in neutral or sunny weather. If Ferrothorn and Forretress are not issues, ExtremeSpeed is a great option to take down weakened revenge killers.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because Deoxys-A is so versatile, its moveset can be molded to suit your team. Thunder, Grass Knot, Spikes, and Ice Punch are all good alternative moves that Deoxys-A can use. Thunder, although reliant on weather, allows Deoxys-A to hit enemy Steel- and Psychic-types hard. It is also Deoxys-A's best move against Skarmory and Lugia in the rain, as it can OHKO both after Stealth Rock. Grass Knot hits Kyogre and Groudon hard without the need for Psycho Boost stat drops, but its lack of coverage outside of hitting the two often makes it a poor choice. Ice Punch may seem outclassed by Ice Beam at first glance, but it gives Deoxys-A the best chance at OHKOing Latios and Latios, who avoid the OHKO from Ice Beam thanks to Soul Dew; it should be mentioned that it also hits Giratina and Lugia a lot less harder though. Spikes may seem awkward on a set designed to destroy its enemies, but Deoxys-A's massive potential for destruction gives it time to set up multiple layers of Spikes. Do be careful if you use Spikes though, as predicting incorrectly will result in a dead Deoxys-A.</p>

    <p>Deoxys-A has some alternative natures and spreads it can use aside from those listed. Maximum Speed along with a Naive nature enables Deoxys-A to outspeed everything up to +1 neutral-natured base 95 Speed Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf and Dragon Dance Rayquaza. A Rash or Mild nature is completely viable. An alternate spread of 24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe and a Mild nature provides more more power at the cost of speed, allowing Deoxys-A to OHKO and 2HKO threats that it had trouble with earlier, such as specially defensive Giratina, as well as Multiscale-less Lugia, and Latias without the need for Stealth Rock. Deoxys-A can also invest in its Attack stat, as its special attacks already have a lot of power. A set of 184 Atk / 88 SpA / 236 Spe is viable, as it provides a massive boost to Superpower and ExtremeSpeed, giving the former a chance to OHKO support Dialga, Ferrothorn, and Chansey. It is recommended to use a Rash nature with this though, as a Rash Psycho Boost boosted by 88 Special Attack EVs is stronger then a Naive Psycho Boost boosted by 252 Special Attack EVs.</p>

    <p>There are a few partners that Deoxys-A always enjoys having on its side. As it is susceptible to revenge killing, Wobbufet is a good partner to get rid of Choice Scarf users; it can also Encore harmless moves to give Deoxys-A a safe switch-in. Steel-types can cause trouble for Deoxys-A, especially in rain, as several of them are hit neutrally by Superpower, so Magnezone is another good partner, trapping these Pokemon and potentially setting up on them with Substitute and Charge Beam or OHKOing them with Thunder. Deoxys-A's frailty greatly hurts its ability to get in safely, so partners that can get Deoxys-A safely in with U-turn or Volt Switch&mdash;namely Genesect, Scizor, Forretress, and Zekrom&mdash;are welcome. Deoxys-A has the tendency to cause a lot of switches in a match and wants as much residual damage on the team as possible so that it can have the best chance to sweep. This means Deoxys-A appreciates having a partner that can use entry hazards such as Ferrothorn. Forretress can do this job well too. It can setup multiple hazards and allow Deoxys-A to switch back in easily thanks to its slow Volt Switch and Explosion.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A few Choice items might come to mind when looking at Deoxys-A's stats. After all, base 180 in each offensive stat is nothing to scoff at. However, there are some huge issues with Choice Deoxys-A. The inability to change moves means Deoxys-A will have to switch often, particularly as Psycho Boost and Superpower both lower Deoxys-A's stats and cannot hit Dark- and Ghost-types respectively. Also, thanks to its abysmal defenses, Deoxys-A can pretty much only switch in after a teammate has fainted. Furthermore, Life Orb-boosted attacks already hit so hard that Pokemon which are not 2HKOed are few and far between. Choice Specs is incredibly strong though, capable of OHKOing even 252 HP Arceus. A Choice Scarf is also unnecessary, as base 150 Speed is already amazing, and to outspeed revenge killers by such large a margin is rather pointless when Deoxys-A could just switch out.</p>

    <p>As for move choices, thanks to its stellar offensive stats, Deoxys-A can make use of just about any decently powerful move in its arsenal; your other teammates should determine which moves it runs. However, there are a few moves that stand out. Psyshock is the first, as it can 2HKO Chansey without the need for Superpower's stat drops. Low Kick is another option which hits many heavy Uber Pokemon for a good amount of damage, while once more avoiding Superpower's negative effects. The combination of the two work well together, "persuading" Chansey not to switch in. Deoxys-A's ability to force many switches can be used to set up free Substitutes, which not only lengthen Deoxys-A's longevity but also ease prediction, as Deoxys-A no longer has to worry about using the wrong move and allowing a check to switch in. Pursuit also takes advantage of Deoxys-A's ability to force switches, killing or greatly weakening any Pokemon that dares switch out against Deoxys-A. Shadow Ball is an alternative to Dark Pulse if you fear that you may accidentally hit a Terrakion with the move and allow it to nab a boost in Attack, but its inability to hit Normal-types might allow Extreme Killer Arceus to switch in freely and proceed to kill Deoxys-A with ExtremeSpeed. Icy Wind and Low Sweep allow Deoxys-A to alleviate its issues with fast Choice Scarf Pokemon, but it should be noted that these moves are extremely weak. Signal Beam allows Deoxys-A to hit Darkrai and Mewtwo super effectively with one move, but it is quite weak and Bug-type moves provide terrible coverage on the rest of the tier. Taunt allows Deoxys-A to prevent a Pokemon from healing itself, but it should be noted that the turn Deoxys-A uses this move could have been dedicated to hitting the opponent.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>There are no true counters to Deoxys-A as its expansive movepool means it might be carrying a move that hits said switch-in super effectively. There is, however, one thing that can be considered close to a counter, and that is specially defensive Psychic Arceus. Specially defensive Psychic Arceus can easily switch into any move Deoxys-A has and proceed to outspeed and kill it the turn after with ExtremeSpeed. Deoxys-A also has many checks, some of which are listed above. To reiterate, anything faster than it or packing priority can reliably eliminate Deoxys-A. Most Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Palkia, Dialga, Jirachi, and Terrakion, are bulky enough to take an ExtremeSpeed and KO back with just about any move; however, it must be noted that neutral-natured +1 base 90 Speed Pokemon will not outspeed max Speed Deoxys-A. Deoxys-A is also greatly annoyed by Chlorophyll, Sand Rush, and Swift Swim users in their respective weathers, as they can outspeed and KO Deoxys-A with a STAB move. Giratina, Arceus, Beartic, and Scizor can annoy Deoxys-A with Shadow Sneak, ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet, forcing Deoxys-A to switch out unless it wishes to be KOed. There are some walls that, should Deoxys-A lack a certain move for them, can create problems for it. Latios and Latias can both comfortably take any hit barring Life Orb-boosted Ice Punch and KO back with Dragon Pulse. Specially defensive Latias makes an even better check, as it is capable of stomaching two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses and can proceed to Recover the damage off, set up Light Screen to take hits with more ease, or just KO Deoxys-A with Dragon Pulse. Specially defensive Giratina also avoids being 2HKOed by any move bar Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam and can proceed to KO Deoxys-A back with Dragon Tail. If Deoxys-A lacks Thunder and Stealth Rock is not up, defensive Ho-Oh can cause problems, as it can tank hits comfortably with its massive Special Defense. Lugia is another specially defensive wall that can survive most of Deoxys-A's moves and easily KO back. Bulky Steel-types such as Scizor, Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, and Bronzong will cause problems for Deoxys-A lacking a Fire-type move and can OHKO back with a STAB move. Scizor and Metagross in particular boast STAB Bullet Punch to knock Deoxys-A out before it moves. Wobbufet, Cresselia, and Deoxys-D can easily switch into Deoxys-A lacking Dark Pulse. They can then OHKO Deoxys-A with Mirror Coat and Ice Beam, respectively, or proceed to cripple it with status. While rare, ExtremeSpeed Deoxys-S KOes its attacking brethren unless a Substitute is in the way.</p>
  2. trickroom

    trickroom
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    QC APPROVED 1/3

    No one approving this? That's sad.

    I think Stealth Rock deserves more AC mention because of its tendency to force switches. Is Ice Beam really needed to slash with Ice Punch? Just move Ice Punch to AC. Ice Beam threatens Lugia/physically Defensive Giratina more but is slashing both really necessary?
    It is unlikely to get past them if you are in the lead slot although Giratina can be 3HKOed easily. Ice Punch is for Latias or maybe Latios but they are not that common. Ice Beam is stronger and uses your more invested stat. Shadow Ball already hits Lugia almost as hard so slash it with Shadow Ball/Ice Punch. Ice Punch for those willing to trade a harder hit on phys Def. Giratina/Lugia for OHKOing Latias.

    Changes are all fine by me. Ice Beam is a cool move on the Life Orb attacker.
    Maybe a Choice Specs set mention? It OHKOes Arceus and unlike Kyurem-W, Deoxys-A is FAST. Deoxys-A also gets rid of Darkrai, Mewtwo, certain Arceus without using Scarf.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    This definetly has to be changed, Zekrom has 90 base Speed.
    The propsed changes look great, I'm tempted to try this beast out; it's an Uber I've always for some reason neglected.
  4. polop

    polop
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    Trickroom I mentioned entry hazards in general (basically it gets Spikes too which it is an AWESOME user of :P) in AC of lead set. I'll give it a separate mention if needed. I'm not putting it in Life Orb though, that would just be weird. You forgo coverage for a move you might not even use the whole time.

    Choice Specs were mentioned in OO. I don't intend to change it. Its already hard enough switching that thing in anyway ;_;. Have you seen its defenses ?_? Vox already gave a good enough mention IMO of why Choice Specs isn't all that good.

    It also gets rid of most of the same mons you mentioned without Specs too, +1 Mewtwo still lives Shadow Ball at +1. At +0 Neutral Nature Life Orb Shadow Ball won't OHKO all the time but Modest / Rash does.

    I wasn't really sure. I just know it was a completely forgotten option. The ability to hit Lati@s harder was cool, and its not like you loose out on any KOes except that one (I think you do 2HKO Specially Defensive Giratina though, and Lugia with SR with Ice Punch). I'll move it to AC still.

    Thanks for the Approval. Now to wait for other people :P.

    EDIT: I implemented Cherub Agent's changes
  5. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Here are a few calcs back from CCAT1 to represent how storng is a max Special Attack Psycho Boost with LO.

    Focus Sash
    - 24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spd only ties with Mewtwo with Mild nature; go with 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spd.
    - Change main EV spread; you mention it does something with Ice Punch but you don't even have it slashed. Just make 252/252 the main one, it's good enough.

    Life Orb
    - AC Thunder; Psycho Boost is all you need for Kyogre and Water Arceus, it does enough. Naive LO 2HKOs 252 / 16+ Kyogre with Psycho Boost and Superpower.

    Other Options
    - Emphasize Signal Beam being a weakie.
    - Remove GS'S Physically Defensive spread.

    [QC]2/3[/QC]
  6. polop

    polop
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    All of Furai's changes are implemented.

    For the whole Mild vs. Naive issue on Deoxys-A I'll use your calcs that show the differences. There was some more calcs I wanted to add and I'll get them up soon (mainly just ones on Specially and Physically Defensive Giratina though, and no one runs 252 HP Lugia anymore so I'll change that).

    Thunder was more there if you don't want to run HP Fire :P. It lets Deoxys-A deal a huge chunk of damage to Forry and Genesect without lowering its speed IV or dropping all its stats with Psycho Boost / Superpower, but its coverage I guess is imperfect. Still moved down to AC though.
  7. Tobes

    Tobes "The absolute strongest reindeer"
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    The Nasty Plot event is in a few days so mention that in Other Options

    Dark Pulse is also coming from that event. The flinch rate and neutral hit on Arceus make it better than Shadow Ball, and you don't care about most Fighting-types because you're fucking Deoxys-A, so replace all mentions of Shadow Ball with Dark Pulse and then give an OO mention of how you can use Shadow Ball if you're paranoid about giving Choice Scarf Terrakion a Justified boost or Quick Attack Terrakion or something.

    Sash: I really want to jam Spikes in one of the moveslots somewhere but I'm having a hard time justifying it so just stress the move in AC. Slash HP Fire before Thunder. Mention teammates who can switch into Giratina-O's Shadow Sneak or Arceus / Rayquaza's ExtremeSpeed and threaten them after they take Deo-A down to its Sash, so that you can preserve the 1 HP later for more attacks or death fodder. Talk about how a savvy player might, say, Draco Meteor a Darkrai switching into the second Shadow Sneak though, or another similar example. Tell them to exercise caution etc.

    Life Orb: AC mention of Spikes due to the ability to force switches.

    [QC]3/3[/QC]
  8. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I think it'd be fine slashed next to Shadow Ball. I think Spikes on the sash set is huge and definitely shouldn't be relegated to AC, even if emphasized.
  9. Tobes

    Tobes "The absolute strongest reindeer"
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    That works, although I'm slightly leery of doing that because Shadow Ball DARK PULSE is important for taking out Deoxys-S. I'm ok with slashing Spikes there I guess. Personally I'd prefer to remove Thunder for Spikes, or perhaps allow the faux pas of four slashes in a slot there.
  10. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    I'm with Tobes on the Spikes one; Shadow Ball is indeed quite important. Spikes > Thunder seems like the best option, Chansey wouldn't DARE switching in on you if you use it over Superpower anyway. For Excadrill and Forretress you have HP Fire and for Tentacruel you have Psycho Boost, so it's all good. Shadow Ball should also stay for Xatu and Espeon, that think they can bounce the Spikes back, but it's not like they're gonna switch in, it's just good to have.

    I agree with everything Tobes said, especially Dark Pulse > Shadow Ball.
  11. polop

    polop
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    I talked to trickroom about Nasty Plot's viability and we agreed its pretty useless on something so frail (even if you pair it with wobba support (lol pair it with Dual Screens and marvel at its fraility) its still going to get revenged and you lose coverage). So, I'm putting it in OO along with Calm Mind to warn people against using it.

    I'll switch every Shadow Ball to Dark Pulse, and add Shadow Ball in OO.

    Sash has an AC mention of team mates that can absorb priority now.

    Spikes is slashed before Thunder on the sash set. I agree that a mention of it in the main set is huge but I'm not too sure if slashing it by Thunder is a good idea. Slashing it by Thunder means you forgo HP Fire meaning Forry can spin hazards away from you. I don't know what else it can be slashed over though.

    I'm mentioning it in AC for now since this is the second time its been brought up but I'm a bit iffy on putting this in the Life Orb set. I know Deoxys-A forces switches like the plague but why are you using it to set up Spikes instead of murdering what ever you think comes in? Not to mention hitting is much more safer in case you mispredict and the mon you think will switch actually chooses to stay in. Focus Sash gives you a bit of leeway since you can afford one mispredict since you live a hit, but Life Orb doesn't... I fully support the sash set getting Spikes but I'm iffy on Life Orb getting the same mention. Keep in mind you need to forgo coverage to use Spikes which is a lot bigger on the Life Orb set then the Sash set.

    Any other opinions on this would be welcome too :P. I'm writing it up in AC if no one has any more opinions on this but still...

    Also if we're going to move Spikes up in the Sash set, should I just leave Stealth Rock in AC. That and should I mention Stealth Rock aside Spikes in AC of the LO set.

    Thanks for the QC check Tobes, I'd still like to have this thing get one more look / stamp of approval before I start writing though since I'm concerned with where hazards should go on the sets. That and if anyone disagrees with all the changes that Nasty Plot / Dark Pulse Deoxys-A has caused they can speak up :P.
  12. Superimp

    Superimp

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    RE: Life Orb Slashes and Checks / Counters

    For this post, I will just comment on a few areas that were not discussed by QC, as I’m (slowly) writing something up for the Latias analysis.

    Regarding Life Orb Deoxys-A

    While looking through your analysis, it was noticed that the Life Orb set has the following slashes:

    Move 1: Psycho Boost
    Move 2: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse
    Move 3: Superpower
    Move 4: ExtremeSpeed / Hidden Power Fire

    Most of the slashes look relatively straightforward. However, the current slash order for moveslot 2 might not be the best possible representation. Let’s take a look at the coverage differences between the two moves to find an answer (Assuming standard [primary slash] Life Orb Deoxys-A with Ice Beam / Dark Pulse being variable):

    -------------------
    Mass Damage Calculations for Ice Beam Deoxys-A (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A "" vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shedinja: 0 - 0%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Cresselia: 28.6 - 34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 32.23 - 38.15%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Arceus-Psychic: 32.88 - 38.73%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 34 - 40.09%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 28 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet: 35.98 - 42.42%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Mew: 36.38 - 43.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Deoxys-D: 38.15 - 44.73%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Soul Dew Latias: 40.65 - 48.62%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 41.48 - 48.9%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Psychic: 42.4 - 50.26%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Jirachi: 44.8 - 52.72%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Mewtwo: 45.67 - 53.84%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 47.02 - 55.44%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 47.14 - 55.58%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 48.11 - 56.85%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 48.81 - 57.69%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 49.11 - 57.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Deoxys-S: 49.34 - 58.22%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 50.82 - 59.89%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 51.23 - 60.39%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 52.82 - 62.14%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 53.84 - 63.7%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 54.09 - 63.74%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 54.97 - 64.91%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 55.71 - 65.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Skarmory: 55.98 - 66.16%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Arceus-Water: 56.53 - 66.66%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 56.79 - 67.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 56.97 - 67.54%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 58.47 - 68.92%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 59.1 - 69.64%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 59.27 - 69.87%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 61.87 - 73.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 64.41 - 75.94%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 64.48 - 75.99%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 65.09 - 76.8%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-S: 68.09 - 80.26%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Arceus-Dark: 69.59 - 82.65%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 70.54 - 82.92%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 70.52 - 83.44%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dark: 72.52 - 85.58%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 72.68 - 85.77%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Normal: 72.97 - 86.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Grass: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Rock: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Gastrodon: 73.23 - 86.38%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 73.36 - 86.45%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 73.93 - 87.25%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 75.54 - 89.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 76.92 - 90.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Ludicolo: 77.47 - 91.48%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 164 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 78.42 - 92.53%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 79.7 - 94.05%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 79.7 - 94.05%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Normal: 80.64 - 95.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 81.37 - 95.93%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 83.33 - 97.95%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Steel: 84.51 - 99.73%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 84.57 - 100%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Electric: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Flying: 85.03 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Rock: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 85.3 - 100.52%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ice: 85.3 - 100.52%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 84.94 - 100.56%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 84.94 - 100.56%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-S: 85.89 - 101.24%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 87.08 - 102.74%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 90.96 - 107.34%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 93 - 109.84%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 94.05 - 110.89%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 94.05 - 110.89%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.02 - 111.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.3 - 112.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.3 - 112.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Giratina-O: 95.69 - 113.15%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 97.38 - 114.82%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 100.29 - 118.26%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 100.6 - 118.61%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 100.93 - 118.94%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 101.24 - 119.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Whimsicott: 101.54 - 119.44%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 102.72 - 121.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 103.54 - 122.07%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 105.11 - 124.29%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dialga: 105.27 - 124.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 106.13 - 125.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 106.13 - 125.06%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 110.21 - 130.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 111.11 - 130.99%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 111.11 - 130.99%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 114.41 - 134.81%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 114.95 - 135.45%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-W: 117.13 - 138.36%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 118.33 - 139.28%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 121.34 - 142.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 125.82 - 148.34%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 126.07 - 149.07%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 200 HP / 4 Def Jynx: 128.66 - 151.71%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Tentacruel: 134.89 - 159.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 136.3 - 160.27%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 136.76 - 160.82%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 138.62 - 163.47%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 140.49 - 165.67%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Poison: 145.72 - 172.07%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 145.74 - 172.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fighting: 146.39 - 172.74%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Poison: 146.39 - 172.74%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys: 152.28 - 179.66%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 153.17 - 180.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 153.17 - 180.26%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 157.18 - 185.35%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 158.83 - 187.29%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 172.52 - 203.21%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 172.52 - 203.21%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shiftry: 176.7 - 208.38%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Froslass: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gorebyss: 192.06 - 225.79%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 194.63 - 230.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 213.39 - 251.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 214.81 - 253.27%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 220.67 - 260.05%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Jumpluff: 221.75 - 261.29%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ditto: 223.41 - 263.54%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 234.25 - 276.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 240.75 - 284.83%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-A: 244.39 - 287.96%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 244.05 - 288.42%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 246.61 - 290.67%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 68 SpD Jumpluff: 251.89 - 296.56%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 254.54 - 300.29%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 255.86 - 301.54%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 256.04 - 302.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 256.65 - 302.47%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 259.24 - 306.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 263.24 - 309.93%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-A: 273.02 - 321.57%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 277.2 - 326.83%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 279.45 - 329.9%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Venusaur: 280.73 - 331.56%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Smeargle: 282.14 - 332.53%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 289.96 - 342.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Cloyster: 329.04 - 387.13%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Smeargle: 333.46 - 392.43%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 336.42 - 397.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 451.1 - 531.25%

    Mass Damage Calculations for Dark Pulse Deoxys-A (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Soul Dew Latias: 34.89 - 41.48%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 42.85 - 50.82%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 43.68 - 51.37%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Cresselia: 43.91 - 52.02%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Jirachi: 44.8 - 52.72%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 45.61 - 54.09%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 45.67 - 53.84%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 48.11 - 56.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 48.07 - 56.97%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 48.62 - 57.14%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 48.81 - 57.69%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 49.11 - 57.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 49.67 - 58.88%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latias: 49.84 - 59.1%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Arceus-Psychic: 50.45 - 59.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 52.02 - 61.48%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 52.82 - 62.14%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 54.97 - 64.91%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 28 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet: 55.11 - 64.96%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Skarmory: 55.98 - 66.16%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Mew: 55.94 - 66.33%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Arceus-Water: 56.53 - 66.66%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 56.79 - 67.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Deoxys-D: 58.22 - 68.42%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 59.27 - 69.87%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 59.27 - 70.52%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 64.41 - 75.94%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 64.48 - 75.99%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 65.09 - 76.8%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Psychic: 65.44 - 76.96%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Mewtwo: 69.95 - 82.45%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Arceus-Dark: 69.59 - 82.65%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 70.54 - 82.92%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 72.02 - 84.9%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 72.2 - 85.11%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dark: 72.52 - 85.58%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 72.68 - 85.77%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Normal: 72.97 - 86.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Grass: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Rock: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 73.19 - 86.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Gastrodon: 73.23 - 86.38%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 73.36 - 86.45%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 73.62 - 87.08%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 73.93 - 87.25%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 75.54 - 89.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Deoxys-S: 75.98 - 89.8%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 76.92 - 90.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Ludicolo: 77.47 - 91.48%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 164 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 78.42 - 92.53%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 78.46 - 92.57%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 79.7 - 94.05%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 79.7 - 94.05%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Normal: 80.64 - 95.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 81.37 - 95.93%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 83.33 - 97.95%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Steel: 84.51 - 99.73%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 84.57 - 100%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Electric: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Flying: 85.03 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Rock: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 85.07 - 100.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 85.3 - 100.52%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ice: 85.3 - 100.52%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 84.94 - 100.56%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 84.94 - 100.56%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 85.33 - 100.58%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 89.54 - 105.64%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 90.96 - 107.34%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 93 - 109.84%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 94.05 - 110.89%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 94.05 - 110.89%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.02 - 111.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 94.42 - 112.02%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.3 - 112.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 95.3 - 112.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Giratina-O: 95.69 - 113.15%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 97.38 - 114.82%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 100.29 - 118.26%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 100.6 - 118.61%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 100.93 - 118.94%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 101.24 - 119.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Whimsicott: 101.54 - 119.44%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 102.72 - 121.03%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 103.54 - 122.07%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-S: 104.27 - 123.02%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 105.11 - 124.29%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dialga: 105.27 - 124.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 106.13 - 125.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 106.13 - 125.06%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 110.21 - 130.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 111.11 - 130.99%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 111.11 - 130.99%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 114.41 - 134.81%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 114.95 - 135.45%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 116.76 - 137.72%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-W: 117.13 - 138.36%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 117.66 - 138.74%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 118.33 - 139.28%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 118.23 - 139.31%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 121.34 - 142.98%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 122.06 - 143.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Jumpluff: 122.31 - 144.35%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 125.82 - 148.34%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 126.07 - 149.07%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 200 HP / 4 Def Jynx: 128.66 - 151.71%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-S: 131.53 - 155.18%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Tentacruel: 134.89 - 159.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 136.3 - 160.27%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 136.72 - 160.73%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 136.76 - 160.82%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 68 SpD Jumpluff: 138.48 - 163.57%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 140.49 - 165.67%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 140.76 - 165.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 141.59 - 166.66%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 143.57 - 168.96%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Poison: 145.72 - 172.07%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 146.26 - 172.24%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 145.74 - 172.34%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fighting: 146.39 - 172.74%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Poison: 146.39 - 172.74%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 153.17 - 180.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 153.17 - 180.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 153.47 - 181.57%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 157.18 - 185.35%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 158.83 - 187.29%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 159.24 - 188.4%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 172.52 - 203.21%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 172.52 - 203.21%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shiftry: 176.7 - 208.38%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Froslass: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 180.14 - 213.12%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gorebyss: 192.06 - 225.79%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 194.63 - 230.26%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ditto: 223.41 - 263.54%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys: 231.95 - 273.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 234.25 - 276.85%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 240.75 - 284.83%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 244.05 - 288.42%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 255.86 - 301.54%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 256.65 - 302.47%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 263.24 - 309.93%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 277.2 - 326.83%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Venusaur: 280.73 - 331.56%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Smeargle: 282.14 - 332.53%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Cloyster: 329.04 - 387.13%
    4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Smeargle: 333.46 - 392.43%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 336.42 - 397.68%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-A: 372.19 - 439%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-A: 416.18 - 490.87%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 451.1 - 531.25%
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shedinja: 70400 - 82900%

    SOURCE: Honko’s Mass Damage Calculator – “Best” Move Listed AKA Most Damaging

    -------------------

    Here is a quick summary of the major differences (and similarities) of damaging switch-ins that one can gleam from this data:

    Ice Beam


    • Loses outright to Shedinja without entry hazards
    • Loses to Wall Cresselia (Preferably if Cresselia is in favorable weather)
    • Loses to Deoxys-D
    • Loses to CM Arceus-Psychic (Naive Deoxys-A variants only)
    • Loses to Wobbuffet
    Dark Pulse

    • Countered by Specially Defensive Latias
    NOTE: Does slightly less damage to Specially Defensive Giratina, Lugia, and (most) Latias variants – still 2HKOes them after sufficient entry hazard support though (Specially Defensive Giratina requires Dark Pulse and then Psycho Boost)

    Unchanged between the Two

    • Countered by Utility Counter Arceus-Psychic – NOTE: Dark Pulse Life Orb Deoxys-A has an extremely slim chance of winning against the standard set using a combination of SR + Dark Pulse + ExtremeSpeed. This chance is greatly increased by using a Mild Nature. Nevertheless, should Deoxys-A come across a Specially Defensive (252 HP / 40 Def / 216+ SpD) Utility Counter Arceus-Psychic (Mentioned in His AC – He is a UTILITY COUNTER), it loses without question.
    • Loses to Wish Support Jirachi
    • Loses to Tank Bronzong (Lacks reliable recovery)
    • Loses to Metagross
    • Loses to Scizor (Not as effective as Metagross)
    -------------------​

    Now that you have this information in front of you, which slash order (Ice Beam / Dark Pulse or Dark Pulse / Ice Beam) is preferable? Do you value Ice Beam's ability to do slightly more damage to Specially Defensive Giratina, Lugia, and (most) Latias variants, inflict consistent Ice-type damage, and also being able to possibly defeat Specially Defensive Latias after SR? Or do you value Dark Pulse's ability to defeat Wall Cresselia, Deoxys-D, CM Arceus-Psychic (Maybe even standard Utility Counter Arceus-Psychic in combination with ExtremeSpeed), Wobbuffet, and have the best overall coverage with respect to Deoxys-A’s other moves thanks to Dark-type damage?

    You might also notice how Wish Support Jirachi, Tank Bronzong, Metagross, and Scizor are particularly bothersome if Deoxys-A lacks Hidden Power Fire. Does this warrant Hidden Power Fire as the preferred slash over ExtremeSpeed? Or is the loss of speed as well as the benefits of ExtremeSpeed not worth the risk?

    The decision is up to you. No matter the slash order you ultimately choose though, I'm sure you will be able to explain the respective advantages / disadvantages of each slash in SC.

    --------------------------------------

    Quick Note Regarding Checks and Counters

    As you can tell from the mass damage calculations above, some Pokemon are actually quite good answers for Deoxys-A. In fact, I imagine Specially Defensive Utility Counter Arceus-Psychic would be characterized as a counter for Deoxys-A (Blame ExtremeSpeed) - this is one of the few defining highlights for using Arceus-Psychic over His other formes. Note how it is Specially Defensive (252 HP / 40 Def / 216+ SpD) in question as the standard variant can actually lose to a full health Focus Sash Deoxys-A – thankfully He is a UTILITY COUNTER.

    After Arceus-Psychic, I imagine Specially Defensive Latias is the next best answer. Thanks to titanic special bulk and Levitate, she easily counters standard Focus Sash Deoxys-A as well as (Ice Beam-less) Life Orb Deoxys-A. Still, although she is capable of tanking one Ice Punch, she is unable to switch into it safely (NOTE: Ice Punch is extremely rare and AC).

    From here on, I imagine everything else (Specially Defensive Giratina, Choice Scarf Genesect, Great Wall Lugia, most Latias variants, etc.) is a check of lesser degree when compared to Utility Counter Arceus-Psychic or Specially Defensive Latias.

    ------------------------

    Hope this helps Mr.lol.
  13. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
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    441
    Arceus-Psychic is 2hkoed by Dark Pulse after Stealth Rock.
    252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Arceus-Psychic: 190-224 (42.79 - 50.45%) -- 92.58% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    If Deoxys-A is using a SpA boosting nature, this happens:
    252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Arceus-Psychic: 208-247 (46.84 - 55.63%) -- 74.22% chance to 2HKO

    Specially defensive Latias cannot counter it either. If Deoxys-A uses a mild nature, Latias is 2hkoed by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock:
    252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Soul Dew Latias: 164-195 (45.05 - 53.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
  14. Superimp

    Superimp

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    It is true Anikrahman1995 that Dark Pulse is Deoxys-A's best option against Arceus-Psychic. Unfortunately for Deoxys-A, Arceus-Psychic has ExtremeSpeed. Deoxys-A's Life Orb boosted ExtremeSpeed is too weak to successfully KO Arceus-Psychic after SR + Dark Pulse, regardless of Deoxys-A's nature. Hence:

    For Specially Defensive Latias, it is definitely true that she is a check in regards to Ice Beam. This is why I specifically mentioned it in Post #12:

    Naive is a chance after SR, Mild is guaranteed.

    Hopefully this clears things up Anikrahman1995.

    P.S. If by some chance an Arceus-Psychic user is very paranoid about ExtremeSpeed KOing after one round of Life Orb recoil (AKA Deoxys-A does not retaliate with ExtremeSpeed after SR + Dark Pulse), I imagine 48 Atk EVs should guarantee it. Arceus-Psychic's bulk is still good enough to take on Deoxys-A regardless. Thus you would get an EV spread of 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208+ SpD. Like I said, Arceus-Psychic is a UTILITY COUNTER.
  15. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    You are right that Arceus-Psychic is probably the closest thing to a counter to Deoxys-A. It has some issues going against it (like how your forced to conserve it throughout the game for it to do its job but that applies to all Pokemon and it has Recover so its not THAT big).

    Specially Defensive Latias gets 2HKOed by Ice Punch + ExtremeSpeed, not that it matters much though seeing as Deo-A outspeeds. I'll give it a special mention though.

    You've provided me with a bunch of damage calculations, and I thank you for that. I'd just like to supplement the community and simplify what Ice Beam has for it. To be honest, from the perspective damage calculations provide it really looks like Dark Pulse completely ousts Ice Beam but that's not the complete case. Actually...

    Rash Modest Ice Beam + Rash Psycho Boost has the highest chance of 2HKOing Specially Defensive Giratina. In fact, Rash Ice Beam 2HKOes after Stealth Rock, whereas Dark Pulse fails to do the same and only bears a meager 10% chance of doing such. Additionally, Ice Beam's better coverage on the meta in terms of hitting things super effectively (there are more things weak to Ice then Dark), means that Deoxys-A can conserve Psycho Boost to better hurt the opposing team. Deoxys-A when faced against a Groudon for example can use Ice Beam or Psycho Boost. But what if it doesn't run Ice Beam? Its forced to Psycho Boost to OHKO unless it wants to get OHKOed, but now its weakened, meaning its forced to switch. This wouldn't be a problem for a dragon like Dialga but it is for Deoxys-A. Why? Because its super frail. Because it needs something to die or a U-turn to get in safely. Because its not like that Dialga that can take advantage of a resist or immunity to a move to switch in safely.

    Ok anaphora fail but w.e.

    I see the merits of Dark Pulse but the Pokemon where it does matter against are virtually non-existent. Now I THINK Ice Beam is the better option, so I'll leave it like that for now BUT I'm almost certain I'm biased. So anyone else that has opinions chime away!

    I will add Jirachi, Psychic Arceus, Deoxys-D, and Cresselia to counters though. Specially Defensive Latias is going to be given a special mention. Thank you Superimp :P. Your ideas will also be added into SC to show the differences between Ice Beam and Dark Pulse and how it can help another's team more.
  16. giggity69

    giggity69

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    Just saying, I wrote the original analysis, vox worked over mine :P (not that it really matters)

    Hp fire needs to stay slashed somewhere on the sash set, its the only thing keeping forre and other steels neutral to superpower from setting up or straight up walling you. Keep in mind that the purpose of that set is to keep opposing leads from setting up, and a team with deo-a will not likely have a spinner to remove multiple layers if deo let's them get down.

    I also don't understand dark pulse>ice beam/shadow ball. Shadow ball + superpower gives perfect coverage, Ice Beam + Superpower gives Dragon + Steel coverage (With a higher base power move), and superpower + dark pulse gives near perfect coverage (with a slight flinch chance, but I would really hate to use hax as a justification to include anything, not to mention shadow ball does not give terrakion, a very common revenge killer, +1), but trades the strong hit on dragons for a hit on psychics, which are, generally speaking, significantly less threatening than dragons.] The things dark pulse actually grant coverage on are pretty insignificant... I mean... Cresselia...Deo-d... Really? When did they ever actually hurt your team? I'm more concerned with giratina and ray, which you should have Ice beam for.

    The LO set should be psycho boost, ice beam, superpower, and extremespeed/hp fire/shadow ball. That's all it needs. No silly dark pulse or spikes on the most offensive poke in the games most offensive set. It has good coverage on everything relevant, especially with rocks up, and psycho boost hits everything else. Emphasize that with hazards or prior damage, common revenge killers like scarf palkia are taken out by extremespeed. Pretty sure only SpD latias "walls" this, but grab yourself a genesect, scizor, or tyranitar (slower u-turn makes getting deo-a back in easier) and its problem solved, especially since her SpD set lacks hp fire so you can switch directly in.

    TL;dr: slash hp fire back on sash in the last slot; if you are going to jam spikes somewhere, it should be on the sash (Lead) set; look back over my LO suggestion; and dark pulse only hits really circumstantial/silly/irrelevant things.
  17. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    811
    Its never been deslashed on any set for that reason.

    The only thing Dark Pulse + Super Power misses out on coverage is Toxicroak which not only sucks in ubers but takes over 9000 damage from LO Psycho Boost. No seriously the damage Psycho Boost does to 4 HP / 0 Sp def croak is ludicrous: 252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Toxicroak: 2376-2797 (771.42 - 908.11%). So I really don't get your point on coverage. Dark Pulse just hits Normal Arceus neutrally meaning its a bit harder for it to switch in into Shadow Ball. Aside that you outlined the reasons why Ice Beam is slashed over Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse is still useful if your using Deoxys-A as a multi-purpose wall breaker and want the ability to smash past Deoxys-D / Arceus-Psychic / Cresselia. The other moves and ability to switch moves set it apart from stuff like Specs Kyogre.

    Your choice on the last slot determines whether you want to be walled by Forry, walled by Deoxys-D / Arc. Psychic / Cress, or want to loose out on ExtremeSpeed. The current slashing simplifies this. Besides Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball + ExtremeSpeed is certainly viable and your slashing ignores that.

    Now this is an interesting proposal that I'll try to bring up on IRC to talk to uber mods about.

    By making this:

    Move 3: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire / Spikes / Thunder
    Move 4: Dark Pulse / Ice Beam

    Turn into this:

    Move 3: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Spikes / Thunder
    Move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire

    We make it so that Deoxys-A always has coverage over steel-types. It may not be able to always beat Psychic-types but it retains the ability to always stop Deoxys-S, and it can setup Spikes in front of the other Psychic-types. I'm going to keep Dark Pulse slashed and not omit it in case a person wants to limit Deoxys-S from using Spikes without releasing Psycho Boost / crippling their Deoxys-A. Ice Beam is slashed first so that Deoxys-A can OHKO enemy Rayquaza.

    Like I said earlier I'll try talking to Uber mods on IRC about this.

    EDIT: I'll discuss the above with Furai + trickroom after Friday, since there haven't been any opinions (or at least I feel no one has anything to say), I'll start writing it up after I finish discussing.
  18. giggity69

    giggity69

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Move 3: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Spikes / Thunder
    Move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire

    I can agree with that, but what is thunder hitting other than Ho-oh that the other moves won't? I feel like an AC mention of thunder would be better than slashing the hell out of the 3rd slot just because ice beam and psyboost handle lugia, kyogre, and 50% Ho-Oh, anyway. And if rocks aren't up, you still arent OHKOing ho-oh from full health with thunder, so it doesn't make a huge difference on the set.

    I was looking the the top set, which is missing it, not the "Proposed changes" one, so I missed that
  19. Tobes

    Tobes "The absolute strongest reindeer"
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Considering there's been so much debate and slashitis about this set, how about:

    [SET]
    name: Focus Sash Attacker (maybe Anti-Lead?)
    move 1: Psycho Boost
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Thunder

    And

    [SET]
    name: Sash Lead
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Psycho Boost
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Superpower
    move 4: Ice Beam / ExtremeSpeed / Dark Pulse

    ?

    Or something similar to those, idea being the first functions more as the traditional attacker and anti-lead, while the latter has more focus on hazards and eliminating spinners. Bear with me, I'm typing this from my phone in my bed at nearly 5 AM. Opinions anyone?
  20. gookie

    gookie Administrator
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    i am fine with tobes option or a strong ac mention of spikes.

    why do we have shadow ball on the first set and dark pulse on the second set? dark pulse's flinch chance seems more useful.

    don't even bother mentioning toxicroak and heracross lol
  21. polop

    polop
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    I don't intend to :P. Toxicroak and Heracross were used to show there is no "difference" between using Dark Fighting and Ghost Fighting Coverage.

    Dark Pulse was in both sets?_? I haven't changed it.

    I'm not really sure where to go after this. Making two sets for sash spiker and anti-lead is totally cool with me. Its just the slashitis in them...

    Like I said earlier I'm cool with just making a new set (I'll add that to the revamp momentarily). The sash lead looks completely fine to me, its the anti-lead that I'm concerned about though. You have to decide whether or not you want to stop Deo-s from getting two layers of Spikes or whether you wanna get walled by Forretress (ExtremeSpeed is slashed with HP Fire). An anti-lead set, IMO, should be able to do both but I'm not exactly 100% sure how to salvage the issues with that. Opinions?

    I'll shift this back to QC just because of the controversy (which will obviously affect how it will be written).

    The idea with Thunder is you combine the merits of Dark Pulse and HP Fire (which makes a lot of sense if you use this on a rain team) to get a sort of compromise. You now hit Psychic types a little weaker then how Dark Pulse would've hit them while still getting a move to hit Forry with. Kyogre, Lugia, and Ho-Oh being hit super-effectively is just icing on the cake. I'll put it in AC for now though, seeing as it is an anti-lead and just isn't flat out better then either two moves (and its inaccurate).
  22. giggity69

    giggity69

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    I'm on the fence about splitting it into two lead sets because they don't play that differently, but I suppose it fixes some of the slashes, so whatever.

    The anti-lead set should be

    SET]
    name: Focus Sash Attacker/Anti-Lead
    move 1: Psycho Boost
    move 2: Ice Beam / Dark Pulse (Undecided on slash order, probably IB 1st)
    move 3: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire (Your steel-killing methods stay together, keep in mind you can't touch dialga without SP, or forre without HP fire)
    move 4: ExtremeSpeed / Magic Coat (Priority for Deo-s and scarfers, or MC for Deo-s, scarf Darkrai, and bulky SR leads. You have sash to save you if you mispredict so you can still hit back.)

    AC Thunder IMO, unless you are leading against Kyogre, you won't have rain to use it with, and most things this set should be dealing with (dilga, groudon, ferrothorn, forre, etc) either don't care about it, or are hit wayyyyy harder by something else.

    Am I missing anything?
  23. polop

    polop
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    Well Superpower also lets you touch Chansey and Tyranitar who would otherwise wall you too the moon (maybe get up Stealth Rock while doing that but I don't know). I think the slashing on your set is fine except Magic Coat. I know it lets you do stuff like stop Deoxys-S and annoy Scarf Rai but your screwed if Deoxys-S runs an attacking move and it just seems so inferior to ExtremeSpeed that I'm tempted to say the OO mention of it is good enough. I'll mention in SC that you can run HP Fire and Superpower in move 3 and move 4 if you seek perfect coverage and are content with the fact your allowing Deoxys-S to get up two layers of spikes. So for now your current slashing will be the slashing of Sash Attacker (except with Magic Coat out and the SC mention of being able to use both Superpower and HP Fire).

    I think that's the best way to reduce the slashitis of Sash Attacker. Any opinions? Also Is the slashing of the current sash lead "ok" if even needed (the one that uses SR / Spikes)? Is it officially safe to begin writing this up? Can this go through QC checks again (I just don't want it to go through another revamp for slashing issues until next gen lol)?
  24. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Just keep the analysis as it is now. Changing it will be a huge mess, Deoxys-A can Spike up well but it is still better off attacking right off the bat. Deoxys-S is still better as a suicide lead, you scare away more things but it is unlikely for you to OHKO Dialga/Groudon anyway with the Focus Sash set.
  25. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Honestly, TR, he has already done the "hard" part. Once it is passed qc, writing and gp are relatively easy. is say let him do it

    I'm ok with magic coat in AC, scarfrai is pretty rare, anyway.

    If we are going to keep the hazard lead, make sure you emphasize its advantages over deo-s, mainly an enormous offensive presence (shit won't set up in your face without immediately being killed), ability to beat spinnrs, and the fact that it lacks deo-s' reputation, so stuff like xatu will never switch in because deo-a normally doesn't fill that role.

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