Deoxys-D Fast Spiker [QC (3/3)] [GP 2/2]

[PK Gaming]

• You don't need to mention IVs, so remove them.
  
• This analysis suffers from serious slashitis. Fortunately, you can treat this insidious disease by moving both Tanga Berry and Colbur berry to AC. I think the main item slashes should be Mental Herb and Leftovers. I'll have to talk it over with the other QC members because Giga Punch makes a convincing case for Rocky Helmet.
  
• I've never really liked Magic Coat (really Mental Herb is more reliable for getting guaranteed hazards) and thus I think it should be removed. The final set should look something like this:

move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Stealth Rock / Recover
move 4: Night Shade
item: Leftovers / Mental Herb (pending)
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP/ 4 Def / 252 Spe

Though Deoxys-D is a bit controversial so i'll really have to talk it over with my fellow QC members.

 

[Mynism]

Just posting to say that you have to reconsider Giga Punch's idea. 286 is what it needs. 306 is a waste of evs.
edit : Mamoswine is a common SR user on offensive teams

 

[MaestroXXVI]

Well, going with 279 to cover max+ tran allows you to use a def- or sdef-boosting nature, which is kinda useful
(and yes, its 279 and not 280 that you need)

 

[-Tsunami-]

Yeah, PK Gaming's set works much better overall. That's the set I am currently using, and it works wonders. It's so easy to set up hazards with Deoxys-D's amazing bulk (even without defensive investment) and solid Speed. It stops Pokemon from setting up with Taunt and can defeat walls such as Jellicent 1 on 1 with Night Shade. Also, I don't think Mental Herb needs a slash. Deoxys-D outruns almost all of the common Taunt Pokemon in OU. Rocky Helmet is interesting and should be slashed, however, as it will punish the opposition for using Rapid Spin on it especially. Deoxys-D can already beat Starmie 1 on 1 if Deoxys-D is using Recover over Stealth Rock, but Rocky Helmet will make the job much easier for non-Recover variants of this Deoxys-D.

 

[Caz the DogWatcher]

Magic Coat is absolutely necessary to stop faster taunts, and you still need your own taunt to beat set-up sweepers like Dragonite who view Deoxys-D as set-up fodder.

The purpose of Magic Coat is to reflect Taunts and Stealth Rocks.
The purpose of Taunt, then, is solely to stop set-up sweepers.
Given these purposes, you'd be better off replacing Taunt with Thunder Wave, since Thunder Wave is better at crippling set-up sweepers (Taunt is only better against fast Substitute users). And it's not like you really need the other functions of taunt--stopping SR, Spikes, or other Taunts--since that's what you have Magic Coat for. At the very least, Thunder Wave deserves a slash.

About the EVs. If you have Magic Coat, you do not need to run max speed to tie with other Deoxys-D because in a Deoxys-D vs. Deoxys-D situation the best option is just to spam Magic Coat.

 

[Harsha]

Yeah, Night Shade should only be over Stealth Rock because Magic Coat does so much for Deoxys. Also, I think that Leftovers SHOULD be slashed, because it has the ability to give you an additional layer of hazards, and it also allows you to come back in later in the game with more HP than you would have.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah, PK Gaming's set works much better overall. That's the set I am currently using, and it works wonders. It's so easy to set up hazards with Deoxys-D's amazing bulk (even without defensive investment) and solid Speed. It stops Pokemon from setting up with Taunt and can defeat walls such as Jellicent 1 on 1 with Night Shade. Also, I don't think Mental Herb needs a slash. Deoxys-D outruns almost all of the common Taunt Pokemon in OU. Rocky Helmet is interesting and should be slashed, however, as it will punish the opposition for using Rapid Spin on it especially. Deoxys-D can already beat Starmie 1 on 1 if Deoxys-D is using Recover over Stealth Rock, but Rocky Helmet will make the job much easier for non-Recover variants of this Deoxys-D.

QC APPROVED (1/3)

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Yeah just implement everything ShakeItUp suggested, including his reasoning for using Rocky Helmet.

 

[Nova]

Yeah this set is the shit, definitely go with leftovers to take more hits

 

[Myzozoa]

Leftovers also neutralizes sand storm damage which is perhaps the most efficient way to increase Deoxys-D's survivability in this metagame.

I'm going to do the edits with rocky helmet, but I think it's pretty bad in general compared to Leftovers and Mental Herb, especially if you're already running Nightshade. It doesn't increase your own survivability or help you get more layers. Mental Herb seems like it contributes more to what this set actually does as a support pokemon. I'm well aware of Rocky Helmet's possibilities against Starmie, but it's just not that impressive when you consider that Starmie can just pump you twice and then spin. Basically what I'm saying is that it still isn't even close to being a substitute for a spin blocker.

 

[MetaGross66]

hmmm, Knock off could definitely be useful, especially if you're setting up for a Terrakion sweep considering Deoxys-D is like a Scizor magnet. I'm also kind of skeptical about the set's effectiveness, but only because I've been using a much bulkier Spiker set (moveset of recover, spikes, sr/knock off, thunder wave) with fantastic results. The reason I would sometimes forgo SR for knock off is that a lot of mons are capable of setting up SR, whereas Spikes and knock off are hard to come by. Thunder Wave keeps you from being set up fodder much more than Taunt imo. Terrakion sets up on Taunt since you're slower, but T-wave cripples it permanently. I've found Thunder Wave to be more reliable for the purpose of blocking set up in general because Deoxys-D isn't that fast.

 

[Mazz]

I'd maintain Stealth Rock and Rocky Helmet as the 3rd moveslot and Item. Deoxys-D is a suicidal Spiker. If leaning towards a more bulky variant, go ahead with them, but it's role in the OU metagame is quite a lot like it's speedy counterpart's was, get a few layers up and leave the match. It does wonders against Scizor, a Pokemon that will commonly be used to break down Deoxys-D, as the residual hazards and Helmet damage will add up and potentially cripple it for the rest of the match.

Just an added idea for teammates, but Dusclops, an UU Pokemon, may provide to be the best spinblocking partner for Deoxys-D, as its bulk will allow it to take a Hydro Pump (or two?) from Starmie, recover the damage, and slowly whittle it away. None of the other spinners in OU (Forretress, Donphan) will be doing much damage to Dusclops either, and both have to be wary of Will-O-Wisp.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

[2/3]

EDIT: What Pocket said.

 

[Pocket]

I have to go against PKGaming's motion to remove Magic Coat and support myzozoa's initial inclusion of Magic Coat in the main set. I would slash it with Night Shade.

myzozoa
Magic Coat is absolutely necessary to stop faster taunts, and you still need your own taunt to beat set-up sweepers like Dragonite who view Deoxys-D as set-up fodder. The combination of Taunt and Magic Coat should be good enough such that your opponent will never be able to set-up entry hazards.

Also mention that Prankster Taunt and faster Taunters would render Deoxys-D relatively useless without Magic Coat (ie Sableye, Azelf, and Aerodactyl).

Mention in the AC that Deoxys-D can afford to lose some Speed EVs to invest it in some bulk. It can drop to 300 for neutral base 100, 297 for Modest Hydreigon, and 294 for Adamant Haxorus. Nothing below that.

QC Approval Pending

 

[Snunch]

What faster taunts? Gliscor and Tornadus are the only OU pokemon that are both faster and commonly carry Taunt, and I'm pretty sure max speed Gliscor are all sub + protect. What the hell does Magic Coat even do besides stop dumb gimmicks like Sableye? Speaking as someone who has a ridiculous amount of experience with Deoxys-D in both OU and UU, Magic Coat is a useless gimmick that is only useful for other useless gimmicks. The ability to actually do damage is much more valuable than stopping Sableye and Whimsicott because Deoxys-D has the bulk and speed to actually check and counter relevant OU threats and the combination of Taunt + Night Shade can actually beat other walls. Really, Magic Coat shouldn't be supported on any Smogon analysis, it's just too situational. If you encounter someone using a faster taunt, switch out and switch back in a turn or two later on a different pokemon and set up hazards then. Deoxys-D certainly has the bulk to pull it off.

 

[Pocket]

Sableye and Azelf (ok maybe Aerodactyl) are certainly not "gimmicks," and are occasionally seen in BW OU. Not to mention Magic Coat helps against other Deoxys-D that is trying to Taunt you.

I've also used Deoxys-D extensively (and apparently myzozoa, too), and Magic Coat is definitely viable on this set. It's not a move for any mon, obviously, but it just happens to work for Deoxys (see mostwanted's Deoxys-S that made it to #1; I may say Deo-D utilizes Magic Coat even better).

 

[doughboy]

What faster taunts? Gliscor and Tornadus are the only OU pokemon that are both faster and commonly carry Taunt, and I'm pretty sure max speed Gliscor are all sub + protect. What the hell does Magic Coat even do besides stop dumb gimmicks like Sableye? Speaking as someone who has a ridiculous amount of experience with Deoxys-D in both OU and UU, Magic Coat is a useless gimmick that is only useful for other useless gimmicks. The ability to actually do damage is much more valuable than stopping Sableye and Whimsicott because Deoxys-D has the bulk and speed to actually check and counter relevant OU threats and the combination of Taunt + Night Shade can actually beat other walls. Really, Magic Coat shouldn't be supported on any Smogon analysis, it's just too situational. If you encounter someone using a faster taunt, switch out and switch back in a turn or two later on a different pokemon and set up hazards then. Deoxys-D certainly has the bulk to pull it off.

If it ever comes down to it, it let's you beat opposing Deoxys-D.

 

[fatty]

echoing snunch. the ability to wear down more defensively oriented teams with taunt + night shade is a lot more beneficial than trying to stop the almost non-existent sableye (who i've only ever seen on certain sun stall teams).

 

[Snunch]

Whether Sableye and Azelf are gimmicks is overall irrelevant - neither are even OU. I don't think we need to tailor our sets to avoid pokemon you'll see a combined 3 or 4 times out of 100 battles. If both Deo-D have Magic Coat, then Magic Coat is useless. Mental Herb is superior in all cases anyway.

Magic Coat works once in a blue moon but you'll wind up using Night Shade nearly every game. Night Shade certainly has much much more utility.

 

[Pocket]

Deoxys-D's primary mission is to keep hazards off its field / prevent set-up by Sweepers while it sets up its hazards. Magic Coat facilitates this goal. Free damage from Night Shade definitely comes in handy, but it's not Deoxys-D's main mission as a suicide lead.

I usually find my Deoxys-D having only enough time to throw down hazards; not too sure when I'll have the time to throw out extra damage with Night Shade (unless I'm running Recover perhaps).

Anyways, myzozoa already included Magic Coat on the main set, which I have no qualms. Mention that Prankster Sableye and faster Taunters can hamper Deoxys-D w/o Magic Coat under Counters section and I will stamp it.

 

[Myzozoa]

I editted the set after Pocket's post. I tend to agree that Taunt and Night Shade is preferable because it may mean you can get away with not running a spin-blocker. But the reality is that you *do* see faster Taunts often enough that Magic Coat will be worth running (this is the ladder mind, and the incentive for running a faster Taunt may be even more desirable in Tournaments as matches are often decided by getting up Stealth Rocks). A lot of it depends on your team, and while I agree that 'slashitis' is a problem in some situations, it isn't really appropriate to say 'slashitis is unacceptable' when Deoxys-D is one of those pokemon that can be affective at filling the same role with quite a few different move sets.

 

[Pocket]

Thanks for the changes, myzozoa.

QC Approved (3/3)

 

[Myzozoa]

Updated the OP except the AV abbreviations (help im *really* new at this and not sure what that is). I will put up a write-up hopefully by Saturday and preferably Friday (school getting busy).

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay, what I meant was just make the set look like this (C + P it to the OP):

[SET]
name: Fast Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Stealth Rock / Recover
move 4: Night Shade / Magic Coat
item: Leftovers/ Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

I fixed it. Thanks for updating!

 

[Remorph]

Look out for Taunters. That's the only worry here. Not much else to say. Well, ONE more thing. Whirlwinders. They HURT.

 

[Mazz]

Look out for Taunters. That's the only worry here. Not much else to say. Well, ONE more thing. Whirlwinders. They HURT.

What faster taunts? Gliscor and Tornadus are the only OU pokemon that are both faster and commonly carry Taunt, and I'm pretty sure max speed Gliscor are all sub + protect.

Basically this. Not much carrying Taunt in OU will be able to outspeed Deoxys-D and hit it with Taunt. This is why it's always safe to Taunt if you predict a switch, then set up hazards. As long as you know when and what to Taunt, you shouldn't need to worry about it much.