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Deoxys-D {QC 4/4} {GP 2/2}

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by PttP, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Although its stats might indicate otherwise, Deoxys-D is the premier offensive lead Spiker in the OU metagame. Its base 90 Speed stat allows it to outpace just what it needs to, while its enormous bulk makes it nearly impossible to take down in one blow, allowing the user to get at least one, if not two, layers of entry hazards up. This consistency appeals to many players, and as the generation has progressed, so has Deoxys-D's recognition as one of the best. Not only does it have the tools necessary to be a great Spiker, but it can also run certain moves to ensure that its work cannot be blown away by common Rapid Spin users. It has essentially defined the new, fast-paced BW2 metagame, as it is used on nearly every hyper offensive (specifically weatherless offensive) team. Unfortunately for Deoxys-D, it is a Psychic-type, which leaves it vulnerable to many common attackers, most notably Genesect and Tyranitar. It also has no way of breaking through either of the Magic Bounce users, Espeon and Xatu, rendering it essentially useless as long as those Pokemon are in battle. Despite these flaws, Deoxys-D has risen up to the cream of the crop, firmly holding a position as one of the elite Pokemon in OU.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Speedy Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Magic Coat / Night Shade
    item: Rocky Helmet / Mental Herb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deoxys-D's solid Speed and bulk make it a fantastic fast Spiker. This set is especially effective at being a suicide lead because of its ability to set up multiple layers of entry hazards. The primary purpose of this set is to set up as many entry hazards as possible while preventing opponents from setting up their own entry hazards. As such, you shouldn't play with this set conservatively, especially if you see that your opponent doesn't have a spinner or Magic Bounce user. With its high bulk, opponents will be hard-pressed to prevent Deoxys-D from getting two layers of entry hazards up. Its above-average Speed allows it to prevent Pokemon such as Hippodown and Skarmory from setting up entry hazards of their own with the use of Taunt. It also has the benefit of guaranteeing that Deoxys-D won't be setup bait for Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Dragonite and Gyarados.</p>

    <p>The last moveslot depends on what you want Deoxys-D to beat. Magic Coat can be used as with proper prediction, it can cause major headaches for your opponent. It allows Deoxys-D to reflect Taunts aimed at it so that it can set up entry hazards undeterred. It is also incredibly convenient if you are facing an opposing Deoxys-D, as it will bounce back Taunt and render your opponent's Deoxys-D useless. On the other hand, with Night Shade, it is a solid counter to Calm Mind Reuniclus. It is able to Taunt Reuniclus to prevent it from using Calm Mind and Recover, then dispatching it with Night Shade. Do be warned that if Reuniclus has Shadow Ball, Deoxys-D will always lose. Night Shade also has the added benefit of preventing faster Pokemon such as Gengar and Terrakion from setting up a Substitute on you.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread provided allows Deoxys-D to maintain a good amount of bulk while being relatively fast. This set plays as a suicide lead, so it is strongly recommended that you don't take any EVs out of Speed, as it will greatly reduce Deoxys-D's effectiveness. Although it may seem odd, Rocky Helmet is an excellent item for its ability to rack up damage. Forretress can no longer PP stall your hazard moves with Rapid Spin, as Rocky Helmet will quickly deteriorate its health. Mental Herb is also useful, as it ensures Deoxys-D will get a Taunt off against opposing Taunt users. It has the advantage over Magic Coat in the sense that it does not require a moveslot and demands much less prediction. Seismic Toss can be used over Night Shade for its ability to hit Normal-types such as Blissey and Chansey. Thunder Wave allows Deoxys-D to prevent itself from being setup bait for the likes of Dragon Dance Salamence and Dragonite. Tanga Berry can be used so Deoxys-D takes less damage from prominent Bug-type attacks from the likes of Genesect and Scizor, allowing Deoxys-D to set up multiple layers of entry hazards. Leftovers gets a mention for giving Deoxys-D some form of recovery, but is generally inferior to the items provided.</p>

    <p>This set should be used on offensive teams, and as such, offensive Pokemon such as Terrakion and Salamence are good teammates. Terrakion appreciates entry hazards to weaken its opponents and cause major damage to every Pokemon it touches. Salamence also enjoys entry hazard support, but appreciates Deoxys-D's ability to prevent hazards being set up even more. Gengar is a particularly good teammate, as it can ensure Deoxys-D's entry hazards will not be spun away, while keeping the offensive momentum going. Generally speaking, anything fast and powerful is a good teammate as entry hazards help them reach their goal of causing misery to the opponent. There are some Pokemon that Deoxys-D has trouble setting up entry hazards against, and it is important to have a teammate in reserve to handle them. Genesect and Scizor are both troublesome for Deoxys-D, as they both dent it with their strong U-turns, with Genesect being able to cripple it even further with Bug Buzz. As such, Heatran is an excellent partner because it can roast Genesect and Scizor with Fire Blast, and its base 130 Special Attack will heavily damage many Pokemon, especially with entry hazards support. Tyranitar is also a pain for Deoxys-D, as it can deal heavy damage to Deoxys-D with STAB Crunch. Fighting-types, such as Lucario and Terrakion, can take advantage of Tyranitar and depending on its moveset, even set up on it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Thunder
    move 4: Psycho Boost
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a different stance on the suicide lead aspect. One of the biggest problems with the speedy Spiker is that it is extremely vulnerable to having its entry hazards spun away by the likes of Forretress and Starmie. This set alleviates these problems. Hidden Power Fire destroys Forretress, ensuring that it will not get away with spinning away your hard work. It also has the added benefit of roasting Scizor, a common switch-in to Deoxys-D. Although Thunder seems like an odd option over Hidden Power Fire, it allows Deoxys-D to OHKO Starmie, letting you set up entry hazards in peace. Now, while the offensive Spiker is effective at removing certain threats, one must not forget what its main purpose is: to set up entry hazards. This set maintains plenty of Speed and is able to set up entry hazards on slower threats with ease.</p>

    <p>A Modest nature along with Special Attack investment is required to let Deoxys-D damage as much as possible. Unfortunately, full Special Attack and Speed investment means that Deoxys-D isn't as good at taking hits as one might think. Psycho Boost is its strongest STAB and with a Life Orb boost is actually quite strong. It lets Deoxys-D OHKO Tentacruel, ensuring its lifespan is greatly reduced. It is a generally strong move, being able to OHKO offensive Pokemon like Haxorus. The move you decide to use in the last slot is heavily dependent on your team. If your team prefers Starmie being eliminated, you should choose Thunder over Hidden Power Fire. Hidden Power Fire is useful for crippling Steel-types that may cause your teammates struggles.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature can be used in order to give Deoxys-D as much Speed as possible, but be warned that Deoxys-D misses out on several key KOs. Fire Gem is a good option to use over Life Orb, as it allows Deoxys-D to maintain its ability to OHKO Steel-types such as Forretress and Scizor, while not inflicting recoil damage. Electric Gem is an option to pair with Thunderbolt, as an Electric Gem-boosted Thunderbolt OHKOes Starmie without having to rely on Thunder's shaky 70% accuracy. While the lack of recoil might seem enticing, you should be warned that Psycho Boost will be considerably weaker without the Life Orb boost. Pairing Thunderbolt with Life Orb is useful if you do not like Thunder's accuracy, but it fails to OHKO Starmie. Superpower gets a mention for being able to deal heavy damage to Tyranitar, although you have to invest in Attack and change to a nature that does not hinder Attack to OHKO.</p>

    <p>This set should be used on heavy offensive teams that can't spare a teamslot for a Ghost-type. It should also be noted that Deoxys-D is incredibly vulnerable to Taunt and Magic Bounce users such as Espeon and Xatu. As such, Choice Band Tyranitar is a good teammate for its ability to OHKO Espeon and Xatu, while being able to deal heavy damage to many Taunt users such as opposing Deoxys-D and Azelf. Ironically, Tyranitar is a also huge problem for Deoxys-D, so carrying a Pokemon such as Terrakion or Lucario is a good idea. Both can OHKO Tyranitar with Close Combat or set up a Swords Dance to wreak havoc on the rest of the opponent's team. Volcarona will often attempt to set up on Deoxys-D, so it is a good idea to carry a Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Landorus or Terrakion to ensure it doesn't destroy your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deoxys-D can make good use of its high bulk and Speed to run an efficient dual screens set. While one might think that a faster Pokemon such as Azelf would be a better option to set up a hyper offensive attack, Deoxys-D fairs just as well;&mdash;sometimes even better. With its base 90 Speed, it is able to outrun a good amount of Pokemon, and consequently set up screens before they can attack. Its high bulk is useful as even if it faces a strong attack, it's more than likely still able to set up a screen. This set separates itself from dual screen Espeon as even though it is unable to reflect hazards, Deoxys-D is able to use its bulk to set up screens at multiple points in a game, something Espeon struggles to accomplish. Deoxys-D can also prevent entry hazards from being set up on it by slower Pokemon through the use of Taunt.</p>

    <p>The moveset and item are fairly self-explanatory for this set. Reflect and Light Screen are the crux of this set, allowing Deoxys-D to support its teammates phenomenally. Light Clay is crucial for its ability to extend the duration of Reflect and Light Screen for 3 more turns. Taunt is useful for its ability to prevent slower Pokemon from setting up on Deoxys-D, an incredible asset considering its above-average Speed. Stealth Rock allows Deoxys-D to further expand on its supporting ability by helping its teammates finish off opponents that would usually be KOed with the lack of Stealth Rock. An EV spread with maximum HP and Speed is most efficient as it allows Deoxys-D to maintain a good amount of bulk, while making the most of its Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is best used on hyper offensive teams that feature a multitude of setup sweepers. With dual screen support by their side, many boosters are able to get up the multiple boosts needed to sweep an opposing team. Fortunately for this Deoxys-D, it does not fear Tyranitar nearly as much as the other sets do. Choice Band Tyranitar's Crunch is reduced from a OHKO to a 2HKO after Reflect, and defensive Tyranitar's Crunch does even less damage. Regardless, Pokemon such as Garchomp and Terrakion are excellent teammates for Deoxys-D for their ability to utilize their high bulk and transition it into multiple boosts. Honestly, as long as you aren't pairing this Deoxys-D with a Blissey, chances are that it's a good teammate, as everything enjoys taking less damage. A bulky EV spread can be used, but at that point you should consider using Cresselia, which has better overall bulk along with an immunity to Ground-type attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Night Shade
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While many of Deoxys-D's other sets take an offensive approach on the battlefield, this set is the opposite. Instead, this set aims to utilize its amazing bulk in order to set up as many layers of Spikes as possible over the duration of the game. With a fully invested Special Defense stat, Deoxys-D becomes a behemoth to take down. Even a Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor will fail to 2HKO it, suddenly transforming Deoxys-D into an enormous help to stall teams that do not want to risk an unexpected Psyshock to their Blissey or Chansey. Deoxys-D also serves the essential role of Calm Mind Reuniclus counter for stall teams&mdash;with the combination of Taunt and Night Shade, Reuniclus has no chance of beating it. With its ability to wall the vast majority of special attackers in the tier, Deoxys-D has plenty of opportunities to set up Spikes and wreak havoc.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In case you didn't notice, this set is curtailed to be used primarily on stall teams in need of a Spiker and a counter to primary stall threats such as Calm Mind Reuniclus and Choice Specs Latios. As such, good teammates include a spinblocker of any sort&mdash;you don't want your hard work going away at the simple click of a button! Jellicent is recommended as its superb bulk and reliable healing allow it to take a beating throughout what will probably be a long game considering the type of team you're using. Other partners for Deoxys-D include Pokemon that can dispose of threats such as Tyranitar and Genesect with ease, or else those two will cause a major headache. Landorus-T falls under that category, as it has no problem dealing with Tyranitar (barring the rare Ice Beam), can switch into a majority of Genesect's moves, and set up Stealth Rock. Jirachi is also an excellent choice for its ability to also set up Stealth Rock, along with being able to pass Wishes to other teammates and provide a variety of useful resistances. Blissey is also an excellent teammate because it can take blows that Deoxys-D doesn't like taking, such as attacks from Pokemon like Gengar, and can also pass Wishes to its teammates. Rapid Spin support is incredibly useful, as this set will often be switching in and out of threats, causing for a lot of residual damage to stack up. Forretress fits this bill nicely, being able to also set up Stealth Rock in the process, while Tentacruel has the added benefit of absorbing Toxic Spikes upon entry.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Despite Deoxys-D's wide movepool, in all actuality it has very limited options. You can forgo even thinking about an offensive set as despite its rather excellent coverage, Deoxys-D won't be nearly as powerful as even Pokemon like Pachirisu. A Red Card + Recycle Spikes set is nifty in the sense that it racks up residual damage rather quickly. Calm Mind and Cosmic Power fall into the same boat of Deoxys-D being too vulnerable to common status conditions such as Toxic poisoning. Likewise, Deoxys-D can utilize a set featuring Agility / Toxic / Recover / Taunt in order to stall out a good portion of the metagame; however, it is left vulnerable to literally every Poison- and Steel-type. Ice Beam can be used if you dislike the sight of the plethora of Dragon-types that will attempt to set up on you and are too fast for Taunt, such as Garchomp and Salamence. Another option is to run a basic walling set, with Taunt, Toxic, Recover, and Night Shade, although this is outclassed by some more conventional walls that have better typing, such as Skarmory, or better defenses, such as Blissey.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>For a Pokemon to be classified as a "counter" to Deoxys-D, it must be able to prevent any layers of entry hazards from being set up. Deoxys-D's main job is to ensure that entry hazards are set up on the field, so combine its high bulk with its good Speed, and it is very hard to stop it from doing its job. However, there are a few Pokemon that completely shut down Deoxys-D from getting even one layer of hazards up. Among that list includes the multiple variants of Genesect. If it gets a Special Attack boost (either from holding Choice Specs or via Download) and has Bug Buzz, Deoxys-D is OHKOed. If it is a Choice Band variant and gets an Attack boost, then U-turn achieves the OHKO. Xatu and Espeon can also be classified as counters, as Deoxys-D will actually hurt its own team if it decides to set up hazards, due to Magic Bounce. Once in play, there is little to nothing that Deoxys-D can do to affect Xatu or Espeon in any productive way. Although uncommon, Choice Band Weavile gets an honorable mention for being able to OHKO Deoxys-D with its STAB Night Slash, and can even predict a potential switch and OHKO with Pursuit.</p>

    <p>Deoxys-D's list of checks is much bigger than its list of counters, and a check to Deoxys-D qualifies as limiting it to one layer of hazards. Choice Band Tyranitar is the prime example of this, achieving the OHKO with its STAB Crunch. However, one should be wary of using it as their main Deoxys-D check, as Deoxys-D is commonly paired with Pokemon such as Terrakion and Lucario, both of which have access to Justified, making Tyranitar an extreme case of being a set-up fodder. A combination of Scizor and a faster Pokemon can limit Deoxys-D to one layer of hazards, as Scizor's U-turn will put big enough of a dent into Deoxys-D for it to be picked off by most fast attackers. Gengar fears the occasional Thunder Wave, but besides that, has no problem with 2HKOing Deoxys-D with Shadow Ball, limiting it to only one layer of hazards. Volcarona is very much in the same boat as Gengar, although it has the added advantage of being able to set up on Deoxys-D with Quiver Dance, a fate few wish to go up against. Honestly, anything that can set up boosts on Deoxys-D can be classified as a check to it, as few trainers will allow their opponent to set up multiple boosts on such a susceptible Pokemon like Deoxys-D. Rock Polish Landorus and Nasty Plot Thundurus-T come to mind, as both are immune to the occasional Thunder Wave, meaning neither have any fear when it comes to setting up on Deoxys-D.</p>

    <p>A fast Taunt is the enemy of all Deoxys-D lacking either Magic Coat or Mental Herb, as it disables Deoxys-D from achieving its main objective. However, using Taunt against Deoxys-D is a very risky move, as more often than not, it will be equipped with either one of the previously mentioned tools, relegating your Pokemon into an unfortunate state. Regardless, if you are a player that plays with their balls-to-the-wall and want to attempt this strategy, Prankster Pokemon, such as Tornadus and Sableye, are an effective way of doing it. Finally, a well-timed Rapid Spin can essentially be considered a counter, as it removes the work Deoxys-D might have done. However, Deoxys-D will often be paired with a Ghost-type, making Rapid Spin very hard to use.</p>
  2. pie cream

    pie cream

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    maybe you could aleast explain why bulkie spikes suck :P
  3. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  4. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    bulky spikes is used on stall teams, don't use it anywhere else. Decently fast Taunt, Reuniclus stop, PP stalling, and Spikes in one slot is something stall loves.
  5. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    fair enough - i'll write it up

    agilistall still sucks though
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'll happily approve the sets that are up there. Mention that Thunder on the offensive set also kills Xatu, and mention Red Card in AC of the speedy spiker set; it will often net you an extra layer, and it's good for people that think U-turn is a good way to get rid of Deo-D.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]

    I've no experience with toxic stall; I don't quite understand how it would work. If it gets added, tell me.
  7. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
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    Take the 4 HP EVs out of the Offensive Spiker set and put them into Special Defense. This way, Deoxys-D can give Genesect an Attack boost instead of Special Attack. Deoxys-D can live +1 U-Turn, but not +1 Bug Buzz (Scarf Genesect). If you give the boost to Attack, it can now live both 100% guaranteed (bar crits), which is crucial since most people will lead with Genesect once they see Deoxys-D in the team preview, and this will guarantee that your team gets at least Stealth Rock up.
  8. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I'm sorry, but Agility/Toxic was tested when we went through QC last time and it was found to perfectly competent. I'm not the only QC member who thinks it should keep the set. Ginganinja, Colonel_M, Pocket, and to a certain extent, SDS all thought it was worth the analysis. Before you even try and get rid of it, I want you to truthfully answer these questions:

    1) Have you tested this set? If no, go and test it first.
    2) If the answer to the above is yes, approximately how many games did you play? Did you know how to use the set?

    I'm asking question 2, because when I got Pocket to test it, he found it very hard to use at first. It wasn't until he finally got the hang of it that he thought it was okay. The set does have a sharp learning curve, however, that should not stop it getting an analysis.
  9. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    heh trust me, i realize the fact that pokemon is not played on paper. if it were, sets such as subdd nite wouldnt be documented. i do test all of the sets i write, although the amounts i use the sets do vary. i played only 20 games with agilistall deo-d and it was so putridly bad that it didnt even deserve a spot in my team list.

    the fact of the matter is that it requires so much support around it, that its not even worth the trouble. i could tell you that it is walled to eternity by all steels, but im guessing you already know that. if you wanted to rid yourself of steels, you have two options. you could either run magnezone which requires a shitload of prediction to use. if you are wondering why it requires prediction to use, it is because the two main steels that will be switching in are scizor and genesect. if you idle around and accidentally toxic a scizor or genesect when they switch in, when you switch out to magnezone you are essentially fucked as they will u-turn out as soon as you come in. same situation goes for forretress as as soon as you reveal that you are a toxic variant, they will use volt switch immediately, once again fucking you. heatran outright destroys you. skarmory is probably the only steel type that you can trap. all this means that you need another pokemon to draw out the number of steels and at that point you are just better off basing your team off a dd dragon. gothielle is a horrible partner to deo-d as it attracts the same exact things as deo-d and gets fucked by the same exact things. tyranitar is going to switch on to you either way no matter what set you use so you need ANOTHER pokemon to beat ttar in order for deo-d to work "somewhat" efficiently.

    all this adds up to the following pokemon in order for deo-d to work "somewhat" effectively.

    with magnezone:
    a shitload of prediction ability
    deo-d
    magnezone
    ttar counter
    ttar / genesect / scizor LURE (preferably one that beats gliscor)
    poison type beater (gengar and tentacruel)

    now im not gonna use all that time to find out which pokemon can lure ttar / scizor / genesect and beat poison types all in one so you can assume that at the very least 4 pokemon are going to be dedicated for a deo-d sweep. this isnt even accounting for all the random shit you will endure such as reunculus and powerful boosted moves such as rain hydro pumps.

    this brings me to my second point of why would you use this thing over subtoxic gliscor. gliscor has almost every advantage over deo-d. it has a better defensive typing, it is immune to status, and it can actually *gasp* beat steel and poison types. the only steel type it loses to is skarmory, which deo-d also loses to. the only advantage it has over gliscor is that it beats stuff like latios 1v1 if latios is brought in on it. gliscor also doesnt require a team centered around it as it is versatile enough to counter stuff like terrakion lucario.

    the set just sucks
  10. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I'll clear the misconception of Deoxys-D being walled by Steels right now. It actually beats all Steel-types apart from Jirachi. Scizor is borderline beating it, as you can survive a Choice Band U-turn without much trouble at all (79% max), so if your opponent's other priority attacks are gone, Scizor will go down to entry hazard damage. Jirachi only beats you because of parahax. Every other Steel-type (Ferrothorn, Forretress, Heatran, Skarmory, Lucario, etc) all lose to Deo-D, because you just Taunt them, and then PP stall them out of their attacking moves with Pressure (which is actually very easy). If Genesect is not Choice Banded, it too is having trouble with Deoxys-D as well, since Scarf U-turn is only doing a shitty 32.24% - 38.16%. I don't want to sound harsh, but as soon as you brought up the "Deoxys-D is beaten by Steels" argument, I can tell you lack an understanding on how to use the set.
  11. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    if you wanna bring the entry hazards argument into play for scizor, it is only fair you do the same with deo-d. not only is deo-d vulnerable to spikes and stealth rock, it is also vulnerable to toxic spikes. i also think its fair to say that you wont be switching in a 100% deo-d anytime soon, as you will be switching it into hazards and at least one attack. i have no idea where you get that heatran loses to deo-d, you argue that it can just taunt and pressure stall. do you realize how much pp heatran doesnt have to one on one kill you to win the battle. all it has to do is get a burn on you with lava plume (i dont see whats stopping it) and then easily switch out to a threat that can finish you off once you predictably use taunt. forretress is very much in the same boat, it comes in 100% free and gets to use a slow volt switch. do you know what that does? that lets another pokemon come in untouched ex. ttar / gliscor / mew / thundurus-t. actually never mind gliscor it beats you either way it doesnt need a vs to get in against you. i have honestly no idea where on earth you got the idea that deo-d can outstall and beat lucario. in case you havent noticed, invested base 90 is in fact, higher than uninvested base 90. this means that lucario can easily get a swords dance in before you use recover. if lucario has crunch either way youre fucked, and if not, lucario does 47.36 - 55.92% with cc. lucario being faster means that once taunt wears off it can sd again and end you. now youre facing a +4 lucario (or at the least +2) because you werent able to even touch it. i mentioned that you do beat skarmory and i left out ferrothorn because you also beat that (eventually). genesect does what forretress does, only with more damage. and bug buzz does exist i think you have a serious misconception that you have to kill a pokemon to beat it. a pokemon doesnt have to kill you to beat you. deo-d is in fact, beat by most steels.

    also i still want reasoning to use it over gliscor

    i dont want to sound harsh, but your comment on lucario and your overall stubbornness (see: swampert), makes me distrust most of what you say. i am openly willing to accept criticism (as with the bulky spiker set), if it is supported well.
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Deoxys-D wont be staying in on Heatran with Lava Plume (although it's not the end of the world if it gets burned thanks to Lefties + Recover). There should be other mons to deal with such Heatran. +2 Deoxys-D beats Lucario to the punch and Taunts it before it can SD. Unless Lucario gets lucky with Defense falls (if it even has Crunch), it's gonna die to LO recoils. If Forretress Volt Switches out, it's just gonna take more hazards damage, which is what this set is aiming to do - forcing switches.

    Genesect is a new threat to this set, no doubt, but without a +1 SpA boost (which it wont be getting), it's not breaking through Deoxys-D. Deoxys-D will simply switch out to pokemon like Heatran, Jellicent, or specially defensive Hippowdon and force out Genesect. Or not let Deoxys-D take the obvious Bug Buzz in the first place.

    This set requires plenty of support, but it's lethal when everything is set in place (much more devastating than Gliscor in fact).
  13. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    im just stating which pokemon he said deo-d can beat. heatran was one of them. deo-d can taunt lucario if it has an agility but i would hardly call it a win especially if lucario carries crunch. crunch does 45.39 - 53.94%, and im sure with the 8-10 crunches you will get a def drop or crit and at that point i wouldnt exactly call it luck. i trust that the forretress user is not an idiot - if there are hazards on the field then i expect him to use rapid spin rather than volt switchting.

    genesect actually does get a +1 spatk boost, i am sorry that was my mistake.

    this set does require plenty of support - too much to be effective. and i can guarantee you anyone will say gliscor is more devastating
  14. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
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    Even if it is lethal when it gets supported perfectly and nothing goes wrong, does it really need a set rather than a mention in other options? When was the last time you saw someone good using an Agility Toxic Deo-D team? I've certainly never seen one. The metagame is literally full of things it doesn't like: Scizor, Genesect, Tyranitar, rain boosted water attacks, sun boosted fire attacks etc. For the amount of support it requires to work properly, I really don't know why you'd bother using it seriously.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Well the spread I used would give Genesect a +1 boost in Atk

    However, I do agree with tab that nobody really uses Deoxys-D for toxic-stalling, unless they are intentionally building a team around one. Not much else to say atm, maybe I'll give it another test drive.
  16. Jukain

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    Why would you want Genesect to get an Attack boost? Bug Buzz is uncommon and +1 U-turn does much more than any of Genesect's coverage attacks. I propose the extra 4 EVs are never in SpD.
  17. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Is the Offensive spiker supposed to be + SpAtk? I thought every deoxys set other than the bulky set would want + Spe.
  18. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Basically this, I don't really care if Bug Buzz is uncommon, I still want my Deoxys-D to get up Stealth Rock AT LEAST before dying.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Agreeing with ballabrown and tab. As mentioned before, Deoxys-D loses from too many common steels (Heatran, Forretress, Jirachi, Scizor, Genesect) and many other pokes such as Tentacruel, Gengar, TR Reuniclus, Alakazam, Espeon, Payback Conkeldurr, Metagross, Mew and Tyranitar. It also requires huge team support. So why not simply put it in OO, as happens with most things that have their uses, but don't really deserve their own sets?
  20. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    You distrusting me doesn't change the fact that five QC members (four if you don't count me) thought it was competent enough to warrant a set just a month ago. I remember when I got Pocket to try it. He was extremely skeptical and after the testing period he thought it was just fine. So basically, after I got people to try the set and changed their opinions about it, you'd think that this set should stay. I'd be willing to argue further on this subject if I hadn't done this already. I'd just be wasting my time repeating what I said a month ago, only for what? More people to just completely ignore it?
  21. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    yes

    the set sucks and im not sure if you noticed but a lot has changed in a month. the fact that you dont realize genesect alone makes deo-d a lot less efficient makes me question you even more

    if you want to claim that this set is *that* great, maybe we should discuss on irc like big boys :]
  22. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    I'm gonna go ahead and agree with ballabrown24 here. I don't like the ToxicStall set at all. In fact, after using it, I had to wonder why the hell I was using it. What does it accomplish? It can't touch Steel-types, especially the ever-common Genesect and Heatran, and it doesn't really do much else other than...sit there.

    shrang, instead of telling him to add it because we're QC, if you really think it is that viable, someone else can write it up. I personally think it's a bad set. Steel-types are far too common, and at the end of the day, if you need to build a team around trapping Steels, I'd much rather just run a bunch of Dragons over this Deoxys-D. The Pokemon that this set has trouble with are far too common in the metagame for my liking. You have to build a team with the exact goal of supporting this set, and we've set a precedent that we're not going to add sets like that. Before you ask me if I've played correctly with this set, I have. I've played competent players with it (not ladder players, the ladder is not good) and it has been a sitting duck. It's far too hard to find a time to come in against someone who knows how to control momentum, and even once it sets up, it's still not very good.

    tl;dr—Move ToxicStall to the OO in my opinion. It requires far too much support, and we were talking about ditching parashuffler Dragonite for this reason, which requires far less support. Deoxys-D should stick to what it does best: laying entry hazards.

    EDIT: Also, I approve what you have, but I'd like at least one more approval before we do anything because of this big debate.

    QC Approved (3/4)
  23. jc104

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    I think what we ought to do is approve or reject the toxic staller seperately. Consider the rest of the analysis approved, but my approval does not apply to the toxic stall set.

    It is correct that Deoxys-D does not lose to every steel, though the majority of steels are at an advantage against it. The pokemon that probably beat it in OU are:

    Alakazam, Cloyster (icicle spear: 52.63 - 62.17%), Payback Conkeldurr, Donphan (all spinners effectively beat Deo-D), CBnite (if 3 turn outrage or lucky with confusion), Espeon, Forretress, Bug Buzz or CB Genesect (edit: actually any non-scarf genesect can probably beat it through freeze/para), Gengar, CB Haxorus, Jirachi (cripples at the very least, at no cost), Keldeo in rain, Lucario (probable with either ice punch or crunch), most non-scarf Magnezone (probably), TR Reuniclus, Scizor (CB can be dealt with sometimes depending on its partners), Starmie, Tentacruel, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Ice Punch Toxicroak, Tyranitar, Vaporeon (rain) and Volcarona. I've probably missed some, but notable deliberate omissions incude heatran, mew (which must switch into toxic to cripple deoxys) and Gliscor. Gliscor can be used to deal with Deo-D if you have another pokemon which can switch into whatever hazards are up and take no damage overall - this is the same way in which all spinners beat Deo-D.

    That list is enormous, and bearing in mind that Deoxys achieves nothing when it is walled, I can't approve the set without some better justification.
  24. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Okay fine

    [qc]4/4[/qc]
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I believe Tanga Berry deserves a slash on the first Speedy Spiker set, due to the drastic increase in Genesect usage. With Tanga Berry, Deoxys-D would find itself setting up 2 layers easy even against a Genesect lead. I also believe that the increased usage of SR leads faster than Deoxys-D, namely Terrakion and even Mew, makes Magic Coat a much more practical option than Thunder Wave on the fourth slot. Basically drop T-Wave to AC and slash Magic Coat with Night Shade.

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