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Deoxys-S (Analysis) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by capefeather, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Hey guys, support-centric leads are still viable!

    I know that it's a bit sparse, but I don't see much else to add. The "offensive team" mentions describe exactly the mentality to use when trying to add Deoxys-S to one's team. I COULD list a whole bunch of offensive Pokémon, but I feel that that would just add "Theorymon bloat" and may not really be appropriate for a skeleton analysis or even a full analysis.

    Also, are other sets even going to be used...?

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-S

    -------------------------------------------

    [Overview]
    <p>Once the undisputed king of Speed, Deoxys-S now must contend with Pokemon with the Prankster and Magic Bounce abilities. It is still the fastest Pokemon in the game to carry many crucial support moves, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, Reflect, and Light Screen. This allows it to hold some of its existing niches as a fast supporter. Perhaps the biggest blow to Deoxys-S, however, is a game feature that is now enforced even in local battles and simulators, often called "Team Preview", that allows players to see both teams and choose their leads accordingly. This means that Deoxys-S can effectively be countered before it even enters the ring, a weakness that is exacerbated by its lack of offensive prowess. All that said, something as blindingly fast as Deoxys-S should never be underestimated or left to its own devices, because every turn wasted is another screen or another layer of Spikes.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Suicide Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Spikes / Taunt
    move 3: Magic Coat / Shadow Ball / Signal Beam
    move 4: Fire Punch / ExtremeSpeed / Ice Beam
    item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
    nature: Timid / Hasty
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>One look at its ridiculous Speed and reasonable bulk should be enough to see why it's such a hot commodity for its ability to lay down entry hazards very quickly and reliably. The lack of a legal method to obtain Custap Berry in this generation also prevents Pokemon with Sturdy from stealing this virtually uncontested niche (for now). On top of this, Deoxys-S has many moves at its disposal to check opposing leads, such as Taunt, ExtremeSpeed, and even Magic Coat to stymie Prankster Pokemon. In particular, ExtremeSpeed's use is to get rid of Deoxys-A leads, while Fire Punch hurts Forretress leads.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Mirror Coat is an option to beat attacking leads such as Choice Scarf Kyogre, Shaymin-S, and Rayquaza. Another option is to put EVs into HP to make it Deoxys-S bulkier, allowing it to lay down even more entry hazards. Naturally, one should use 4 HP with Timid nature rather than 4 Atk with Hasty nature if neither Fire Punch nor ExtremeSpeed is run.</p>

    <p>Deoxys-S should be used on an offensive team that will immediately take advantage of its support. General guidelines to building an offensive team apply, especially the use of defensive pivots. An alternative Spikes user such as Skarmory, Forretress, or Ferrothorn can lessen the pressure on Deoxys-S to do its job. Additionally, if Deoxys-S is Taunted, it is vulnerable to just about any setup Pokemon, including sweepers and supporters, so one should have a strong core that can take on a wide variety of possible sweepers. Giratina and Giratina-O are great spinblockers who can also handle anti-leads such as Scizor and Metagross. Other than that, Deoxys-S can easily fit into any aggressively minded team due to its valuable niche.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Trick
    move 2: Spikes
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Superpower / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Careful / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 28 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Deoxys-S's unparalleled Speed ironically makes it a viable Choice Scarf user. By equipping a Choice Scarf, it is nearly guaranteed to move first to cripple most leads with Trick, or just lay down Spikes and save Trick for later in the game. Superpower is one attacking option to threaten Tyranitar and Terrakion; alternatively, Shadow Ball or Ice Beam can hit other opponents. Make no mistake, however; due to its weak offensive prowess, it is best to stick to its hazard-setting role. 28 Speed EVs are all that Deoxys-S needs to outrun Jolly Excadrill in the sand.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Magic Coat is less effective than on other sets due to Choice lock, though it's still an option to Taunt Prankster Pokemon. Thunder Wave is another option to shut down an out-of-control sweeper on the opponent's side; Mewtwo, for instance, is far easier to handle when paralyzed. Alternative EV investments can vary: 144 Atk accomplishes a OHKO on 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage, and 96 Spe Jolly outruns Jolly Terrakion after a Rock Polish boost. One can also optimize physical bulk rather than special bulk to help against U-turn-to-priority combinations.</p>

    <p>This set serves as more of a hit-and-run kind of lead that doubles as a revenge killer. An offensive team that requires multiple roles to be put into one Pokemon may find this set better than a suicidal hazard-centric set. Stealth Rock from the likes of Groudon or Ferrothorn is a great complement to pile on the residual damage. This set is vulnerable to Taunt from Prankster users, so a strong defensive core to double-switch to is not a bad idea. In return, Deoxys-S can shut down a sweeper or some other dangerous opposing Pokemon to let its team breathe more easily.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Light Screen
    move 2: Reflect
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Spikes
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>An observant reader may have caught on to the theme already, but Deoxys-S is the fastest dual screens user in the game. Because it is so fast, it can be difficult to stop due to the screens coming up before the opponent can attack. Taunt allows it to shut down opposing support Pokemon, and it still has room left for an entry hazard. These traits make Deoxys-S a prime choice for Dual Screens because it supports itself with its superior Speed and Taunt, as well as supporting the rest of its team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Offensive dual screens are typically used to open up a sweeping strategy. For example, Deoxys-S can set up screens for Mew, which can then pass Swords Dance or Nasty Plot boosts to a sweeper, such as Rayquaza, Palkia, or any of the other incredibly powerful offensive Pokemon in Ubers. Gorebyss can especially benefit from dual screens due to its frailty, allowing it to pull off Shell Smash more easily and either Baton Pass its boosts or take advantage of them itself with its powerful Surf or Hydro Pump. Dual screens are not for a conventional offensive team but for an extremely aggressive one that intends to barrel right through the opponent within the lifetimes of the screens.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Beyond using fast support moves for the team, Deoxys-S's options are pretty barren. A mixed sweeper set doesn't really have the power to work in Ubers, and there are excellent mixed attackers such as Zekrom, Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Groudon carrying Overheat. In addition to this, Mewtwo's new signature move, Psystrike, makes it effectively a fast mixed sweeper as well.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon with Prankster and Magic Bounce shut Deoxys-S down due to their abilities. Thundurus is a prominent example of this since it can carry Thunder Wave to make Deoxys-S far less effective. Powerful attackers, such as Tyranitar, Scizor, Giratina-O, and Metagross, can quickly defeat Deoxys-S, but they cannot prevent Stealth Rock from going down. Users of Rapid Spin, such as Forretress and Excadrill, can also be a pain to Deoxys-S's team overall, especially since Deoxys-S is designed largely as a suicide lead.</p>
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    I fixed spacing errors, broke the Overview into bullet points, and changed the erroneous formatting on some other places. Now that I've done that, this can be marked as done.
  3. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Isn't DW Espeon released already? If so, then that definitely needs to be mentioned in this analysis because Magic Mirror Espeon is an all-out counter to the Lead set.
  4. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    All right, I finally did this thing. woo
  5. trickroom

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    Looks good and why this isn't approved yet? Tyranitar is a pretty decent counter since it OHKOes Deoxys-S with Crunch and Sand damage but it will not enjoy eating a Superpower.

    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  6. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    About the Choice Scarf set, I would suggest this:

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Trick
    move 2: Spikes
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Superpower
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Atk / 16 Def / 96 Spe

    This is pretty much a modification of Stellar/Theorymon/Jibaku's 4th gen Scarf Deoxys-S. With the Speed EVs, you can outspeed +2 Jolly Terakion and do a truckload to it with Superpower. The Attack EVs guarantee an OHKO on 252/0 Tyranitar with Superpower (weak little shit Deoxys-S!) after SR, and the rest go into defense to help Deoxys-S deal with those U-turn + priority lead combos.
  7. LightningNapkin

    LightningNapkin

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    Deoxys-A? You're running this in Ubers?
  8. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    I've replaced my spread with that spread, but I wanted to ask about the defensive EVs. Is 252 HP / 16 Def really the best way to go? What's stopping me from making it even more physically defensive (84 HP / 184 Def would maximize physical bulk)? How important is Choice Scarf Deoxys-S's special bulk here?
  9. trickroom

    trickroom
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    The Special bulk actually helps a lot. Deoxys-A fails to OHKO you with Shadow Ball, Darkrai's Dark Pulse fail to KO, Dialga's Draco Meteor doesn't OHKO you and non Specs Kyogre cannot OHKO you without Water Spout.

    Physically defensive is helpful for Tyranitar since Support Groudon's Earthquake still 2HKOes you anyway.
  10. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Well, 252 HP gets mangled by even non-LO Dark Pulse (96.7% - 114.5%). Are you saying that there should be two Choice Scarf sets? Or should I just have the SpD spread and put shrang's spread in AC? Or the other way around?
  11. Ninjadolphin

    Ninjadolphin

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    Another good set is the mixed attacker revenge killer
    Naive nature
    212 speed, 200 spatk, 96 attack
    Life orb
    Super power
    Thunderbolt
    Ice beam
    Psycho boost
    The speed allows it to outspeed +1 base 100 speed
  12. trickroom

    trickroom
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    The extra special bulk is important. Since the Attack EVs aren't helping it a lot, make the SpD spread as the main one. Deoxys-S should focus on laying down hazards not killing things, so it should focus on bulk. I will say put shrang's one in AC since Jibaku and firecape always used the Max Special Defense Scarf set. Unless a mod wants to change it, just put Max SpD as the main one and shrang's set in AC. I don't think any Pokemon has 2 Choice Scarf Sets because that will be redundant.
  13. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Well, I guess you could move the Attack EVs to SpD. I would still recommend the Speed EVs, though, since you can still check some of the faster threats like +2 Terakion (I would at least recommend SOME Speed on it, especially when you Trick away your Scarf).
  14. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    All right, I mentioned 144 Atk and 96 Spe as investment options in AC, but the "main" spread is 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful / Calm.
  15. trickroom

    trickroom
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    This is analysis is done, why isn't it approved yet?

    I think Fire Punch is more useful for the lead set since Forretress is such a common lead in this gen for Ubers.
  16. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    I'm not entirely sure of which moves to put in "move 3" and which to put in "move 4", but yeah, I think this is basically done.
  17. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I find Thunder Wave kinda cool on the Scarf set. I think it deserves AC at least. You can pretty much put a fast but frail sweeper, that could otherwise wreak havoc (Darkrai, Mewtwo), out of commission with death fodder.

    Qc approved 2/2
  18. giggity69

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    Agreed, I have actually used that before, in OU, though.
  19. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Thanks, firecape! Copyediting time ^_^
  20. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Willing to help get this pushed through GP :3
  21. V0x

    V0x 4: I used to run at the sight of sun
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    ~500 words shorter than Tenta, GPing this first :p

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Once the undisputed king of Speed, Deoxys-S now stands to be completely shut down by Pokemon with the Prankster and Magic Bounce abilities. It is still the fastest Pokemon in the game to carry many crucial support moves,[comma] such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, Reflect, and Light Screen, holding its existing niche as a fast supporter firmly against a new-found uncertainty.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Suicide Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Spikes / Taunt
    move 3: Magic Coat / Shadow Ball / Signal Beam
    move 4: Fire Punch / ExtremeSpeed / Ice Beam
    item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
    nature: Timid / Hasty
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One look at its ridiculous Speed and reasonable bulk should be enough to see why it's such a hot commodity for its ability to lay down entry hazards very quickly and reliably. The lack of a legal method of obtaining to obtain the Custap Berry in this generation also prevents Pokemon with Sturdy the Sturdy ability from stealing this virtually uncontested niche (for now). On top of this, Deoxys-S has many moves at its disposal to check opposing leads, such as Taunt, ExtremeSpeed, and even Magic Coat to stymie Prankster Pokemon. In particular, ExtremeSpeed's use is to get rid of Deoxys-A leads, while Fire Punch hurts Forretress leads.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Mirror Coat is an option to beat attacking leads such as Choice Scarf Kyogre, Shaymin-S, and Rayquaza. Another option is to put EVs into HP to make Deoxys-S bulkier, allowing it to lay down even more entry hazards. it a bulkier lead able to survive more attacks to lay down even more entry hazards. Naturally, one should use 4 HP with Timid nature rather than 4 Atk with Hasty nature if neither Fire Punch nor ExtremeSpeed is being run.</p>

    <p>Deoxys-S should be used on an offensive team that will immediately take advantage of its support. General guidelines to building an offensive team apply, especially the use of defensive pivots. An alternative Spikes user such as Skarmory, Forretress, or Ferrothorn can lessen the pressure on Deoxys-S to do its job. Additionally, if Deoxys-S is Taunted, it is vulnerable to just about any setup Pokemon, including sweepers and supporters, so one should have a strong core that can take on a wide variety of possible sweepers. Giratina and Giratina-O are great spinblockers who can also handle anti-leads such as Scizor and Metagross. Other than that, Deoxys-S can easily fit into any aggressively minded team due to its valuable niche.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Trick
    move 2: Spikes
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Superpower / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Careful / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deoxys-S's unparalleled Speed ironically makes it a viable Choice Scarf user. By equipping a Choice Scarf, it is nearly guaranteed to move first to cripple most leads with Trick, or just lay down Spikes and save Trick for later in the game. Superpower is one attacking option to threaten Tyranitar and Terrakion; alternatively, Shadow Ball or and Ice Beam can hit other opponents. However, this set will often disappoint with its weak offensive prowess, so it is best to stick to its hazard-setting role.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shadow Ball and Ice Beam are still options to hit other opponents, but this set will often disappoint with its weak offensive prowess. Magic Coat is less effective than on the previous set due to Choice lock, though it's still an option to Taunt Prankster Pokemon. Thunder Wave is another option to shut down an out-of-control sweeper on the opponent's side; Mewtwo is far easier to handle when paralyzed. Alternative EV investments can vary: 144 Atk accomplishes a OHKO on 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage, and 96 Spe Jolly outruns Jolly Terrakion after a Rock Polish boost. One can also optimize physical bulk rather than special bulk to help against U-turn-to-priority combinations.</p> IMO a mention of what outspeeds Excadrill

    <p>This set serves as more of a hit-and-run kind of lead that doubles as a revenge killer. An offensive team that requires multiple roles to be put into one Pokemon may find this set better than a suicidal hazard-centric set. Stealth Rock from the likes of Groudon or Ferrothorn is a great complement to pile on the residual damage. This set is vulnerable to Taunt from Prankster users, so a strong defensive core to double-switch to is not a bad idea. In return, Deoxys-S can shut down a sweeper or some other dangerous opposing Pokemon to let its team breathe more easily.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Light Screen
    move 2: Reflect
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Spikes
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    SC and AC are rather sparse....though there isn't much else to say, I guess
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>An observant reader may have caught on[space]to the theme already, but Deoxys-S is the fastest Dual Screens dual screens user in the game. Because it is so fast, it can be difficult to take down due to the screens coming up before the opponent can attack. Taunt is there to shut down opposing support Pokemon.</p> talk about the SR / Spikes?

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Offensive Dual Screens dual screens are typically used to open up a sweeping strategy. For example, Deoxys-S can set up screens for Mew pass its screens to Mew, who can then pass +2 boosts to a sweeper like such as Rayquaza, Palkia, or any of the other incredibly powerful offensive Pokemon in Ubers. This means that this set would be needed not on a conventional offensive team but on an extremely aggressive one that intends to barrel right through the opponent within the lives of the screens.</p>maybe talk about Gorebyss passing Shell Smash as well? especially since Kyogre support gives it +2 already

    [Other Options]

    <p>Beyond using fast support moves for the team, Deoxys-S's options are pretty barren. A mixed sweeper set doesn't really have the power to work in Ubers, and there are excellent mixed attackers such as Zekrom, Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Groudon carrying Overheat. In addition to this, Mewtwo's new signature move,[comma] Psystrike,[comma] makes it effectively a fast mixed sweeper as well.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon with Prankster and Magic Bounce shut Deoxys-S down due to their abilities. Anti-leads such as Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross can quickly defeat Deoxys-S but can't prevent Stealth Rock from going down. Rapid Spinners such as Forretress and the rare Excadrill can also be a pain to Deoxys-S's team overall, especially since Deoxys-S is designed largely as a suicide lead.</p>

    [Dream World]
    This Pokemon has no Dream World ability.



    this was nice
    [​IMG] 1/2
  22. November Blue

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    Unofficial check.

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    Deoxy-S Analysis (open)



    Proofreading...
  23. Nexus

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    ok to the above poster, please refrain from doing GP checks until the first has been implemented.
  24. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    V0x and I checked this simultaneously. He posted his after I had started mine, so I didn't see his.

    Nexus, I know better, don't worry :P
  25. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Sorry about the delay. Thanks, V0x!

    I think that more could be said about Deoxys-S's problems, but I'm not sure on how to go about it. I find that it can become a deadweight pretty easily, but what to do to follow up on that...? ?.?

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