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Pokémon Deoxys-Speed

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by ShadowMarioGalaxy64, Nov 12, 2013.

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Which Set seems the most effective?

  1. Hazard Lead

    122 vote(s)
    51.3%
  2. Dual Screens

    22 vote(s)
    9.2%
  3. TrickScarf

    14 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. Choice Specs

    16 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. Rain Dance

    4 vote(s)
    1.7%
  6. Boosting Special Sweeper

    32 vote(s)
    13.4%
  7. None (Comment and suggest another set)

    28 vote(s)
    11.8%
  1. ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Deoxys-Speed
    The army shall rise! o.o

    Stats

    HP: 50 241-304
    Atk: 95 203-226-289-317
    Def: 90 194-216-279-306
    Sp. Atk: 95 203-226-289-317
    Sp. Def: 90 194-216-279-306
    Spe: 180 356-396-459-504​

    Notable Moves

    Spikes
    Knock Off
    Taunt
    Psycho Boost
    ExtremeSpeed(That's notable?)
    Toxic
    Reflect
    Light Screen
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Thunder
    Shadow Ball
    Psychic
    Psyshock
    Thunder Wave
    Substitute
    Gravity
    Magic Coat
    Stealth Rock
    Trick
    Recover
    Superpower
    Nasty Plot (Gen 5 Event)
    Nasty Plot is Incompatible with the following moves:
    Gen 4 Tutor Moves:
    Focus Punch
    Water Pulse
    Shock Wave
    Secret Power
    Endure
    Avalanche
    Natural Gift
    Mud Slap
    Headbutt

    ...I don't think you'd lose much...

    Abilities

    Pressure: A move that directly attacks this Pokemon uses up 2 PP instead of 1.

    Overview

    Deoxys-S has avoided being banned during the first Suspect Test. While this helps its OU life, the Suspect Test did away with Genesect, the one Pokemon Deoxys-S was best a Revenge Killing. As a result, Deoxys-S hasn't seen too much light and has been brandished as a "One Trick Pony" by many thanks to being constantly compared to its only other OU Forme: Deoxys-D. What is this trick, you ask? Simply put, too many have claimed that Deoxys-S is only good at Revenge Killing with its Super-Effective coverage; while true to some degree, Deoxys-S has a single, yet effective weapon: Surprise. Before facing a Deoxys-S, one must question what it will do. Is it a Hazard Lead? Is it a Trick Scarf? Is it a Revenge Killer? Is it...a Rain Dancer...(for the love of Clefable's Shadow, why did I make that?)? You won't know. This does allow for a mixing of Movesets to confuse the opponent even further.

    However, the positives stop there. Deoxys-S has issues with too many other Pokemon to function properly. Its stronger attacks, namely Psycho Boost and Superpower, have drastic downsides that force Deoxys-S to watch when it nukes. Priority is typically a problem, namely boosted STAB-Priority from the likes of Scizor and Bisharp, as well as Prankster Taunt unless Deoxys-S carries Magic Coat. Top this off with only "passable" Offenses and you have yourself a Pokemon that, when it attacks, has to watch when it does. Deoxys-S is a Pokemon that can support a team well with its hazards, screens, or Revenge Killing, but it must watch out, for this OU is more devastating than before.

    Before going into possible new movesets, let's take a quick look at what Deoxys-S was good at in Gen 5.

    Movesets

    Hazard Lead @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Jolly
    252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    - Spikes/Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat/Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Fire Punch



    Dual Screens @ Light Clay
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Jolly
    252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Taunt
    - Fire Punch/Superpower

    The above two sets are considered outclassed by Deoxys-D, but you can guess what they can do. You either set up Hazards and possibly Magic Coat something back at the opponent, or you set Screens up, Taunting when needed. Between Superpower and Fire Punch, it depends on what you want to halt. If Scizors want to Defog your hazards or Tyranitars want to destroy you in general...take your pick.

    TrickScarf @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Jolly
    252 HP/148 Def/100 Sp. Def/8 Spe
    - Trick
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Fire Punch/Superpower/Knock Off

    This set...trolls and cripples. You can cripple many Pokemon with Trick and this set proves it. The unmatched speed PERIOD allows you to outspeed any foe without Priority, switch items, and then laugh at them when Blissey's Leftovers are gone. If it's not the right time to use Trick, Spikes, is still a fun tool to use. Taunt, Fire Punch, Superpower--blah, blah, blah. We're beating the dead horse and there are other sets that would work in Gen 6. One addition to this set is Knock Off. If you think Trick is a bad idea (say, Tricking Scarf for Scarf), Knock Off will cripple them, though this kind of move is purely situational.

    Professor E. Gadd's Distant Alien Cousin @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
    - Psycho Boost
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball

    Some say that Deoxys-N and Deoxys-A are better off in the attacking department. While that may seem true, most people will expect Deoxys-S to be support or an all-out Attacker, making this set a nice surprise for that Whimsicott Switch-In now taking an Ice Beam. On a Modest Nature, Deoxys-S reaches 459 Speed, enough to tie with +1 Base 90's. If you don't want to run a risk against some Choice Scarf Pokemon, Timid is viable, allowing you to outspeed +1 Base 103's (because EVERYBODY wants to outspeed Emolga, right?). The damage output with Timid, though, is slightly lower. The attacks have some impressive coverage. Psycho Boost is the strongest Neutral Move. It has a nice Base Special Attack (unsure whether or not it will be dropped, but until we know it does, let's assume that it's still Base 140) and gets STAB. Sadly, it halves your Special Attack, making you immediately flee. The infamous Boltbeam combo is here in its glory, hitting whatever Psycho Boost doesn't. For everything else, particularly bulky Psychic-Types, Shadow Ball is the best choice. Otherwise, Pokemon like Jirachi, Cresselia, and Wobbuffet would use you like their little toy.

    Below are Damage Calculations run with the Choice Specs Set, most of the targets being common Deoxys-S switch ins and Checks. The first list is with a Modest Nature:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 382-450 (117.9 - 138.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 328-388 (101.23 - 119.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 123-145 (40.46 - 47.69%) -- guaranteed 3HKO --8.2 chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rocks
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 350-412 (104.79 - 123.35%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 242-286 (72.45 - 85.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 518-612 (142.69 - 168.59%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    All were with a Modest Nature. Here's with Timid:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 348-411 (107.4 - 126.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 300-354 (92.59 - 109.25%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 112-132 (36.84 - 43.42%) -- 99.51% chance to 3HKO --guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rocks
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 316-374 (94.61 - 111.97%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 316-374 (94.61 - 111.97%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 220-260 (65.86 - 77.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 474-558 (130.57 - 153.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Something that this set fears is trapping Pokemon and trapping moves. Mega Gengar is the biggest threat to this set if it avoids Psycho Boost and Shadow Ball. Infestation users like Dusclops will have a field day sitting there wand damaging Deoxys-S slowly but surely. Watch for possible trapping to make sure Deoxys-S stays alive.

    M. Night Shyamalan was wrong...Aliens DO like Water @ Damp Rock
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Modest/Timid or Bold
    4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe or 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunder/Spikes/Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam/Taunt
    - Shadow Ball/Psycho Boost/Magic Coat/Recover

    This set was...interesting. Definitely odd, but it's still worth bringing up. Deoxys-S has access to Rain Dance, which doesn't seem like a big thing at first. Don't forget that Auto-Inducing Weather has been nerfed calling for the aid of Secondary Inducers (which didn't matter for me, since I always ran a backup). Deoxys-S, outside of Prankster Pokemon like Tornadus, Thundurus (realized that it has a shot at OU now, too...), Murkrow, Illumise, Volbeat, Riolu, Sableye, and Liepard, is the fastest Rain Dancer in the game. IT COUNTS! Unlike those Prankster Pokemon, Deoxys-S can either Attack with nice coverage OR support its team. To the left are the Offensive options. Since you'll be inducing Rain, Thunder is the preferred attack, allowing you to hit slightly harder. Ice Beam still gives the Boltbeam combo, so it's still worth going at it. Shadow Ball adds well to the coverage of Boltbeam, but Psycho Boost remains your strongest attack. Nature-wise, Modest is used for that punch, but Timid is there for the Speed just in case. To the right are the Supporting options. Spikes and Stealth Rock are your hazards and Taunt is Taunt--no arguments. Finally, though, Magic Coat is somewhat viable on this set, being able to reflect Taunts, Status Moves, and all that. One could argue that this set is bulkier than most other Deoxys-S sets, so one could say that Recover is a decent option. Though it is one of the best healing moves, using it might remove a decently hitting attack or an impressive (yet prediction-dependent) support option.

    Boosting Special Sweeper @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Psycho Boost/Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse/Psychic/Psyshock

    An event I'm sure everyone participated in allowed Deoxys to be received with a new move: Nasty Plot. Everybody loved this and everybody wanted to use it. Deoxys-S can very well possibly be the best Deoxys Form to use it. It lacks the direct punch that the other forms have, but has just enough natural bulk to make it work. After a boost, you hit a nice 433 with Timid and 475 with Modest. The move choice is pretty simple: Boltbeam and 1 coverage move. Psycho Boost has been praised enough, so I won't go into detail. Shadow Ball, coverage-wise, is the much better choice, but a x2 Super Effective Shadow Ball isn't as strong as a Neutral Psycho Boost (Shadow Ball hits 160, Psycho Boost is at 210). Dark Pulse is much the same as Shadow Ball, but has an effect of Flinching. Sadly, Dark Pulse isn't as effective anymore thanks to the Fairy-Type threat. If none of those options suit you (Psycho Boosts halves your Special Attack), Psychic and Psyshock are very usable. They may not be as powerful, but you can use the same attack twice; once on a switch in, the next to finish them off. Psychic is slightly more powerful, yet Psyshock is Psyshock. This allows Deoxys-S to, theoretically, become a mixed attacker. The choice is yours on which attack to use and usually depends on your team which options to choose. As far as items go, Life Orb and Focus Sash are both viable. Since you can't take hits and want to hit as hard as you can normally, Life Orb helps you with that extra dent. Oh the other hand, Focus Sash almost guarantees a Nasty Plot boost--just watch for indirect damage like Sandstorm and Toxic.

    'Revenge Killer Is My Name' by Kejmur / Alt Spread by Gary 2346
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 100 Atk / 172 SpA / 235 Spe OR 20 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 236 Spe
    ~ SuperPower
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Psycho Boost
    ~ Fire Punch

    The set declared the best by the public, Deoxys-S is able to hit through Pokemon that take Super-Effective Damage like Scizor and Tyranitar. Instead of naming what this set does, here are some things to point out:
    • This set depends on Life Orb for the extra damage. Without it, Deoxys-S wouldn't be able to damage other Pokemon. Don't try to to use another item unless you're willing to give up something important like extra damage or a move (which is never a good idea).
    • Gary 2346's spread is typically the best choice, as it outspeeds most common threats while still hitting just hard enough to score 1/2HKOs. A slight deviation is fine, but the Speed shouldn't change (that goes for the nature, as well).

    Other Options

    I'm sure you're looking deeper into the movepool of Deoxys-S and trying to make sets of your own. Do so, but there are sets that I would like to give honorable mentions to. At first thought, a Heat Rock-Sunny Day set seems viable, but the alien's only Fire-Type Attack Move is Fire Punch--too weak to take much advantage of. It does get SolarBeam, so if you want to try that out, be my guest. It does work for what it needs to. Some people also might notice that Deoxys has access to Pursuit and Knock Off. While Pursuit isn't a solid option on Deoxys-S, a set based more around Knock Off is definitely usable. Deoxys-S, as mentioned before, is the naturally fastest user of Knock Off. A mixed attacker (or Physical Attacker) set could take advantage of this and run it. Speaking of, a Physical Attacker set could take advantage of Zen Headbutt, Rock Slide, Poison Jab, and/or Superpower, but there are better Physical Threats that do the job better. You can look at the Notable Moves and probably make a set around some of them. Some other possible sets include ToxiStall, Gravity, Paralysis Spreader, etc., but those are better done by its Defensive Forme. SOMEBODY (that somebody being me) decided that Focus Punch on Deoxys-Normal was a good idea thanks to its 150 Attack, but it's weak in comparison when using Deoxys-S, so...don't do it.

    *More Options will be added as needed*

    Checks and Counters

    It's difficult to say that Deoxys-S has a direct counter. This isn't 5th Gen Ubers; this is a new challenge it is facing. Even then, each set has its own list of Checks, but there are a couple Pokemon that can show E.T who's boss.

    The first group is the Magic Bounce group. Xatu, Espeon, and Mega Absol are the three Pokemon with Magic Bounce. Xatu can only switch in on passive sets, since BoltBeam and Shadow Ball ravage the totem bird. Espeon is a safer option, but still must avoid Shadow Ball. Dual Screens Espeon, though, is only hurt by the Nasty Plot Set when Deoxys-S deviates to Shadow Ball. Mega Absol, on the other hand, is the best option. It can normally take one single hit from Deoxys-S not named Superpower (though without any Attack Investment, Mega Absol has a 50% chance of surviving Superpower), and OHKO with Sucker Punch against Offensive variants or Night Slash when against Defensive variants. Mega Absol doesn't even fear Trick, since Absolite cannot be Tricked off.

    Sableye is regarded as the best check to Deoxys-S. Granted, it doesn't take hits the best, but with Taunt and Recover, Sableye can stop most Defensive sets cold. Offensive sets don't mind Taunt and even Special Attacking take 79.33 - 94.21%. Other Prankster Pokemon are usually 2HKO'd by Deoxys-S at its unboosted (by Nasty Plot) strongest. Klefki, at worst, is 3HKO'd (even by Fire Punch) so long as Deoxys-S hasn't obtained any boosts.. Klefki also has access to Foul Play, Torment, Dual Screens, and, most importantly, Thunder Wave. These moves disrupt Deoxys-S. Foul Play 2HKO's, but OHKO's after two turns of Life Orb Recoil. Torment prevents the same move from being used twice, forcing a mix-up. Dual Screens can reduce the damage done to Klefki. Thunder Wave completely cripples Deoxys-S, allowing anything faster than 126 (1/4 of 504).

    Offensively, there are a couple Pokemon that can scare Deoxys-S. Scizor has been the biggest OU threat since 4th Gen and has maintained its status quite well. Though Scizor can't directly stop Deoxys-S from doing everything (especially with Fire Punch), Scizor can either use Bullet Punch to severely dent the illegal alien or catch it in a Pursuit Checkmate. If the Deoxys in question only has 4 HP EV's to protect itself from damage, Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch finishes poor Deoxys off at 73.14 - 85.95%, a OHKO after Stealth Rocks and one turn of passive damage. Tyranitar must watch out for Superpower, but otherwise tanks most hits well and also boasting a Pursuit Checkmate and tank just about every Special Attack Deoxys-S has to offer thanks to its Special Defense boost in Sandstorm.

    Support Deoxys-S is best handled by the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Tornadus and Thundurus thanks to Prankster Taunt. Offensive Deoxys-S can be slightly more difficult to Check without taking some damage. Blissey and Chansey are the best options against all Special Attacking Deoxys-S that don't run Focus Blast. They can tank any unboosted Special Hit, use Thunder Wave/Toxic to cripple Deoxys-S, and 3HKO with Seismic Toss, using Softboiled to heal any damage (or in Chansey's likely case, Wish+Protect). Heatran also comes in as a great check. Even if the Deoxys-S in question has boosted, Heatran commonly carries Roar to blow it away and negate all boosts. Bulk Up Scrafty, oddly enough, takes hits better than most people expect, taking 25.44 - 30.23% from unboosted Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. Crunch will obviously OHKO, while Dragon Tail will phase Deoxys-S out if it decides to boost on sight. Wobbuffet risks a 2HKO by a Modest Choice Specs Shadow Ball, but is otherwise 3HKO'd at worst. A single Mirror Coat will take it out, since even Timid Life Orb Shadow Ball does 203 minimum, which is normally the alien's max health. Ferrothorn has Thunder Wave and Leech Seed, as well as the ability to use a crippled Deoxys-S as setup bait, but must watch for Focus Blast and Superpower. Mandibuzz hurts the Hazard Set thanks to access to Defog and Foul Play. On a predicted Taunt, Foul Play will OHKO the Hazard Set, but on any other set, Mandibuzz faces severe weakening on the switch and will be finished off, so Mandibuzz can only switch in against Hazard Deoxys-S.

    The new Fairy-Type introduced some Specially Bulky Pokemon. Despite this, they still take some damage at Deoxys-S' strongest. Sylveon has to stomach 53.77 - 63.74% from Psycho Boost, but Deoxys-S will only be half as powerful, meaning that Sylveon can tank any two hits. Calm Mind variants of Sylveon have an absolute field day with access to Moon Blast and Shadow Ball. Florges is much the same way, but takes slightly less damage (by slightly, I mean 2% less), and also has Calm Mind.

    Entry Hazards are always a problem with Deoxys-S. Sticky Web reduces what Deoxys-S loves most: Speed. Without it, Deoxys-D starts looking like the better option. Spikes and Stealth Rock has the annoyance of not only breaking the very Focus Sash E.T enjoys, but also compromising its health when holding Life Orb. Toxic Spikes don't help, either, especially since it starts the line of passive damage. All one has to do is stall Deoxys-S out. The problem is getting many of these Hazards on the ground with Deoxys-S OUT, since a Taunt can stop most of them. Getting them off before Deoxys-S comes out is a good idea (unless Gamefreak gives it Magic Guard, but we all know that won't happen).

    Finally, if you're desperate, Revenge Killing Deoxys-S is still an option. Priority Pokemon usually dent well, though some better than others. For example, Jolly Life Orb Mamoswine does 38.84 - 45.45% with Ice Shard, while Scizor's damage output has been listed above, but is almost double that. Aegislash deals 80.57 - 94.62% with Shadow Sneak against variants with some Defensive Investment and OHKOing those without it, making it a decent option when switching an attack not named Shadow Ball. Choice Band Azumarill dents Deoxys-S well, dealing 53.71 - 63.63% with Aqua Jet. Bisharp's Sucker Punch against Offensive Varients is a guaranteed OHKO. Diggersby hits hard with Quick Attack, at 52.47 - 61.98%. Talonflame gets Priority Brave Bird for a guaranteed OHKO. Most Choice Scarf Pokemon cannot outspeed Deoxys-S, but a select few are capable of outspeeding and OHKOing. Any +1 Positive Nature 105 Speed Pokemon will outspeed Deoxys-S. The best examples include Terrakion, Gengar, Keldeo, Latios, Galvantula, Raikou, and Starmie. Of the listed, Terrakion, Gengar, Latios, and Galvantula OHKO without worry--the rest easily 2HKO.

    *More information will be added*

    Well, comment, add, suggest--do whatever you all normally do with these. New Movesets are very much welcome, alterations to previously listed movesets are also welcome, and some other little additions (Other Options and Checks and Counters being the big two) are also appreciated.

    Personal Thoughts

    I liked Deoxys in general back in the day. It seems versatile, but it's been proven that Deoxys-S isn't the bulkiest Pokemon in the world. I used it to some success and I'm surprised nobody has touched upon the little guy. We don't know (and won't know until Pokebank) how Deoxys in general will change until we see it in-game, but I'm certain it would've gained a new move or two. Well...let's discuss!

    Final Note

    I'm still going to further edit this thread, but I will comment every so often to track progress.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  2. Haunter

    Haunter just outplay the coin flip...
    is an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tutor Alumnus
    Líder máximo

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    Just letting everyone know that Deoxys-S will be the first Pokemon to be suspect tested in Gen VI. Also remember that this thread is to discuss on how effective this Pokemon is in the current Pokebank metagame, not whether it's Ubers material or not.
  3. Kejmur

    Kejmur

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    259
    This is a set I use in OU tier right now. In a metagame, where suiciding for hazards may end up as a wasted time because of Defog/MegaBlastoise and while your bulk is ok enough to set-up, your mediocre defensive typing means that it may be really hard to do anyway, I would say that you should go with a set focused on revenge killing (yeah, it was mentioned in OP, but IMO it's worth it taking into account that incredible speed, don't underestimate it). Of course suicide lead may still work, but it's much less effective with Defog around and great new Rapid Spinner called MegaBlastoise.

    'Revenge Killer Is My Name'
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 100 Atk / 172 SpA / 235 Spe
    ~ SuperPower
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Psycho Boost
    ~ Rock Slide / Fire Punch

    235 Speed EVs are enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp, rest goes into offenses. SuperPower allows you to OHKO Tyranitar while 2HKO Max Defense Blissey (counting Atk drop). Psycho Boost allow you to hit Pokemon like Conkeldurr, Non-Scarf Terrakion (or locked into Fighting attack), MegaHeracross, MegaVenusaur, Gengar, etc. hard enough to KO them in one hit. Ice Beam is obviously for Dragons and Thundurus-T, although for some of them (like Dragonite) SR is required. Rock Slide is mostly for Volcarona, but Fire Punch is ok option as well against stuff like Scizor or Genesect if you catch them on switch with it (you also outspeed Scarf Genesect which is nice bonus and in case of Scizor he can't KO you in one hit with CB Bullet Punch, which is sweet). Yeah, it lacks lots of power, so don't rely on it too much, but this base 180 speed means that he is good 'panic switch' Pokemon to finish off some scary sweepers before they'll go on total rampage. Also Deoxys-S has reasonable enough bulk to not be owned by priority, which is good news as well.

    It's also possible to go only with special attacks, and invest attack EVs in HP to increase his bulk a bit (or invest enough to for example outspeed Scarf Terrakion), but without SuperPower Tyranitar walks all over you and without Rock Slide you loose the ability to revenge kill Volcarona. Thunderbolt is also an option for Gyarados, but if he suddenly transforms into MegaGyarados, which you can't revenge kill in one hit with Thunderbolt, it sounds iffy at best.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  4. ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
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    Seems promising of a set! Give me a day or two of testing this and I'll come back with my personal results.
  5. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

    Joined:
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    Just because you're a mod you don't have the right to assume something is going to be suspect tested while everyone else gets an infraction whenever they even suggest such a thing.
    IkEr_14 likes this.
  6. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    He is an OU council member...
  7. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    He's not assuming so, he's saying so.
    Karxrida likes this.
  8. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Sep 25, 2010
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    1,505
    Deoxys - S's trademark speed stat has always been overkill. Speed is the only stat with a dichotomous result. You're either faster than your opponent, or you're not. That's why speed always seems like a lackluster EV investment (depending on the mon obviously). You can measure the difference investing in Attack or Defense will make in your performance. With Deo S all this extra speed makeshim outperformed by his other forms that still aren't banned, being Deo N and Deo D. Deo S is a full 20 BST higher than the second fastest threat (Ninjask). Tied for third? Deo N and Deo A. So let's look at the potential roles and sets listed in the thread.

    Compared to Deo S, Deo N has a whopping 150 BST in both attack stats. All while still maintaining the third highest speed tier possible. This puts Deo S to shame as a revenge killer. The extra speed is wasted while Deo N is still faster than anything you'll normally encounter (faster than Mega Gengar by 20 BST. Only matched by Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl), and having the potential to actually OHKO far more threats with a Life Orb. Sure, his defenses are crap being 50/50/50, but neither invest in them anyway and would both be taken out by the right priority moves anyway, so the point is moot. I'd dare say Deo N's life span potential is greater simply from the higher KO yield. So maybe support?

    Well, Deo N is the king here. Again, many common support pokemon utilize prankster, nullifying Deo S' real claim to fame. Deo N, for a wall and one of the best on top, sits on a pretty damn fair 90 BST. For a wall that's insane. And his defenses are 50/160/160. He is far far more likely to get more support moves out than Deo S, as evident by the sheer amount of Deo S lead sets needing Focus Sash and featuring the word "suicide" in the description. So Deo N has nearly double the defense potential of Deo S while still sitting at an effective speed 90.

    So yeah, the guy is outclassed in purpose, but how can he be used in the tier? Well, you can technically make sure he goes first against everything with a scarf, but again, that's all null and void with priority moves. Most things that carry scarves I'm seeing at least are pokemon in speed tiers 60 - 100. Going for bulky and fast, rather than just frail like older gens were so accustomed to. And Deo S outspeeds all those things even then. Sure, you might see a scarved Terrakion here or there but not really.

    All that being said however, Deo S can actually shine with a balanced set ironically, better than Deo N can. It's defenses aren't the best, but they're still much better than Deo N. So with bare minimum Speed EVs he can throw 252 into HP and the rest as you like for a naturally fast annoyer and attacker. Really fast Taunts and screens to mitigate defenses. Two support moves and two attacks. That being said, I actually see him as BL. I can't see many people jumping to Deo S once the novelty of Gen VI wears down and you start seeing the tried and true constant threats. That's my take at any rate.
  9. Haunter

    Haunter just outplay the coin flip...
    is an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tutor Alumnus
    Líder máximo

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    1) I'm an administrator;
    2) I'm an OU council member, so not only I can decide what is being suspect tested but it's also my institutional role to do so;
    3) you're not in the position to tell others what they're allowed to do.

    Keep the above points in mind if you want to continue to post in this forum.
    vroony, komomas, Jukain and 17 others like this.
  10. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule Yo soy basura
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Such a versatile Pokemon, though I always liked his Dual Screen set the most. But that DS set you have listed should have Stealth Rock listed somewhere.

    Has anyone here had success with Skill Swap Deoxys-S? Are Magic Bouncers common enough to make the move choice justified? Sorry if this type of post isn't allowed here.
  11. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    Raw offense w/o Nasty Plot is terrible on Deo-S because Deo-N. Won't matter for long since Deo-N is not going to be having exactly the longest stay in the meta, but for now it's relevant.

    TBH, it's main lead set might not even be what gets it banned this time around (thanks Defog), NP on the other hand can be a legitimate threat due it's incredible coverage and the fact it outspeeds ScarfChomp and everything below, essentially making it unrevengable without priority. Admittedly, this is a priority heavy meta, but Deo-S causing it to be moreso might not be the greatest thing in the world to allow.

    I wish I could say more about Deo-S but it's just so pointless to use him right now with Defog and Deo-N in the meta, so I haven't really been trying him out.
  12. Zarkus

    Zarkus

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    Man-Jensen (Deoxys-Speed) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam
    - Taunt

    This is the set I currently run. Deoxys-D might do this better but that fast as fuck Taunt has been so good.

    Deoxys is one of my favorite Pokemon so I really hope he doesn't end up banned again :(
  13. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Man the tension in the above posts could be felt through the internet.

    Oh welp, im yet to find a single DeoS, to the point i only knew it was considered OU today, not that i play PS that much but that goes to show not many people know the opportunity theyre missing when not using our favorite broke suicide lead!

    Tbh i dont find it that much of a broken pokemon as of right now, in paper, i already see the worst nightmare of DeoS looming over him: Defog, which neuters any Hazard, or Screen, so yh, both of the indisputably best sets our SpeedCreep can use are now in check by a single move that a HUGE amount of (good) pokemon will get through Pokebank, (im betting my right hand Defog Latias will be a thing by a month of Pokebank OU). I dont think itll be banned but w/e thats just my opinion. Now, granted, Sash Hazards is still arguably the best set, but it is held down by the fact that1 or 2 hazards up (3 means stupidity on the opponents side) are much easier to work around with an unblockable move that destroys all the Lead's efforts.

    Now you could argue that Deo S will end up centralizing Defog, and imma say why it wouldnt: watch a) the amount and quality of ghost types we have right now to work with, youre not spinning with 95% of teams having a ghot type, which are, in general, really hard to work around (Gengar, Aegislash, someone can argue Gorugeist and Trevenant) b) The quality of the typing itself, this has already been talked to hell, but ghost is as close as you get to Normal in Inverse Battle, aka, ridicoulusly low amount (or quality) of resistors and excelent defensive side as well.

    Btw, on the Defog thing, now at least Gengar loses 1/2 of its uselfulness on HO, which is gained by the buff to Ghost types, and Mega Gengar
  14. ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    ShadowMarioGalaxy64

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    Before I take a leave for the night, I will post a paraphrase of something I'll add to the initial post now that it came to mind.

    Stone RG brought up that Defog would be big in the Metagame--it's already big to begin with. To be fair, though, all the work could be for nothing on the wrong timing, but one Taunt later...
    Sadly, it doesn't help that the greatest of current Defog users, Crobat, also gets Infiltrator, so any Deoxys-S lacking strong attacking moves is done for. Crobat almost entirely counters the Hazard Lead and Dual Screens Sets but cannot hold its own against most of the other sets. Crobat might not mind Choice Scarf, making it faster than Deoxys-S, but all the other sets have something that hit it hard, that being BoltBeam, Rock Slide, or Psycho Boost. I'll give credit to the Man-Jensen set from Zarkus and the Revenge Killer set from Kejmur; they hold a good chance going against Crobat thanks to Thunder Wave and Ice Beam or Rock Slide and Psycho Boost, respectively.

    When I get on an actual computer (on an iPad with a Bluetooth Keyboard...sorry, this thing closed out on me once, erasing everything. I don't trust it), I'll make changes and add Crobat to the Checks and Counters section. I'm also surprised to see that everybody still personally believes that the Hazard Lead set is the most effective, despite new Spiking Competition from Klefki, the new Prankster Jingle Keys. Deoxys-S does get Taunt, though, so that helps.

    Tomorrow is more testing on the sets by Kejmur and Zarkus to see how they work more. I have a decent idea as to what their issues are (since no set can hurt everyone for massive damage), but I want to further confirm them and bring them up once they have been. Have a good night everybody.
  15. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    Because of this whooping base Speed he has great advantage over Normal Deoxys. Your ability to outspeed all relevant scarfers (ur the ONLY non-choice Pokemon with ability to outspeed for example Scarf Garchomp, this is something that Deoxys would kill for). And taking into account how frail normal Deoxys is being outspeeded by ALL relevant scarfers is really bad news. He's much easier to revenge kill. And taking into account that technically all kinds of priority kill Deoxys, while Deoxys-S survives with solid comfort even CB Bullet Punch coming from Scizor or CB Aqua Jet from Azumarill means that is another incredible advantage over normal one taking into account how priority heavy metagame is right now. BTW Deoxys-S is the ONLY Pokemon which can revenge kill so much stuff because of his speed, while not being Choice Scarf locked. This alone give him really unique niche. But yeah, lack of power is an issue. But this is what you have teammates for. But this isn't Pokemon which you build around it, it's one which you throw on your team when you have for example massive QD Volcarona or DD Salamence weakness. I feel like he is kind of like Porygon2 - you use him to patch up holes instead of build a team around/with them in mind.

    In other words - don't threat him like a sweeper, because he isn't one. Use him just for revenge killing/stopping some sweeps cold and he won't IMO dissapoint.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  16. Perseu

    Perseu

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    I've been using this fker with an good n old hyper offense team with banned pokes in gen 5, the team so far consists in this, landorus-i, genesect, blaziken mega, thundurus-t and a scarf keldeo. Deoxys speed is an amazing annoyer, trickscarfs and set hazards like no one, making an even easier job to landorus totaly RAPE the opponent. They are must use in any offense team.
  17. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    I almost feel like just about every Deoxys should be running Superpower. Tyranitar is just such a huge player in the current metagame-- it's everywhere, and it's there to check far more than just Deoxys. Superpower just seems to valuable to not include, especially with the change to defog.
  18. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Is scarf chomp it? Choice Garchomp doesn't seem particularly useful anymore with both of his STABS having potential immunities running around. I didn't say he couldn't be helpful, I said outclassed. The amount of scenarios where, again, that bloated speed is actually necessary, as opposed to beneficial, is limited. I the has a spot on your team then cool, but I'm skeptical regarding needing to be banned in this Topsy-Turvy metagame where abilities matter as much or more than stats now.
  19. ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    ShadowMarioGalaxy64

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    I did some more testing with Kejmur's set and I found only one true problem: Bulky Psychic-Types. Though not all that common, Cresselia, Wobbuffet, Reuniclus, Metagross, Jirachi, and even Mew can tank most of your hits quite well and normally carry something that can give Deoxys-S problems. They're rare, though, so the problem itself is migitated. Other than that, it was actually pretty nice to use for Revenge Killing!~

    Tyranitar is always going to be the big threat, sadly. It's either that or Scizor, isn't it? In some ways, it makes me wish that Deoxys got U-Turn. Oh well. You are absolutely correct, though...Superpower is the big way to get around Tyranitar. I mean, with Deoxys-N, I ran a SubPunch set and there weren't any Tyranitars to come out on top. What Deoxys-N had was immediate power, though. Since Deoxys-S doesn't have that power, it's forced to run the move that goes when selected, not the one that takes a while to wind up (and requires Sub). Superpower works quite well, though.

    I mean...you outspeed Scarf Emolga...that's something?

    There aren't too many faster Pokemon that use Choice Scarf--hell, I named them above. This is why Team Building needs excess amounts of effort to make sure everything works with ease.
    komomas likes this.
  20. Zarkus

    Zarkus

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    If that's the case, then maybe a more offensive version of my set would work for that purpose:

    Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 140 Spd / 190 HP / 180 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Thunder Wave/Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Punch
    - Superpower

    140 Spd allows Deoxys to outspeed +1 base 81's (Dragonite, Gyarados) on a positive nature whereas 180 Atk on a positive nature allows it to OHKO 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar with no prior damage. The rest goes into HP, which is enough to survive +1 Dragon Claw from Adamant Dragonite

    Ice Punch would probably be the best option but any of them work, really.

    Alternatively you could throw a Life Orb on it to manage this:

    Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Spd / 20 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower
    - Ice Beam

    allowing it to outspeed +natured +1 102 base Pokemon (aka Garchomp) and have a 87.5% chance to OHKO them, 100% if you change the nature from Jolly to Hasty or Naive.
  21. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    As Kejmur mentioned, I'd have to argue that the best set right now for Deoxys-S is the Offensive Life Orb set. I think a set like this should definitely be put in the OP, and I'm kind of confused why it's not to be quite honest. Here's what I've been running:

    [​IMG]

    Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Psycho Boost
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Superpower
    - Ice Beam

    The team that I was using had no room for something like a Choice Scarfer, because the lack of being able to alternate between moves really killed a lot of my team's momentum, which is essential to its success. Deoxys-S on the other hand is not only faster than a large majority of the common Choice Scarfers in the tier, but it also has access to fantastic coverage and the ability to switch between moves. Although its offensive stats are average, this set is just so good at revenge killing what it needs to revenge kill that it doesn't even matter, and it's perfect for teams in need of a solid revenge killer with absolutely amazing luring capabilities. Psycho Boost doesn't give a shit about Deoxys's average base 95 Special Attack, and deals insane amounts of damage to pretty much anything that doesn't resist it, even doing more than 50% to the likes of Skarmory. Hidden Power Fire is a great lure to Scarf Genesect, which it actually outspeeds with the given EV spread, and Scizor, who is OHKOed after two SR switch-ins. It also 2HKOs Ferrothorn. Superpower, as Chou Toshio said, should be used on every offensive variant of Deoxys-S, because otherwise Tyranitar is an amazing counter to it and can trap it with Pursuit. Superpower also 2HKOes Blissey, which is an added plus. Ice Beam rounds off this sets fantastic coverage so it can nail Dragon-types like Garchomp, Dragonite, and Salamence. I can't stress to you how amazing it is outspeeding Scarf Garchomp and OHKOing it with Ice Beam, then proceeding to nail something else the following turn with a STAB Psycho Boost.

    With 240 Speed EVs and a Naive nature, Deoxys-S hits 500 Speed, letting it speed creep Scarf Garchomp and other important things like Scarf Genesect, Scarf Landorus, Scarf Salamence, and +1 Dragonite/Gyarados. The last moveslot is pretty expendable, but Ice Beam is preferred because it OHKOs a lot of common Pokemon. Thunderbolt is still nice for Starmie, Gyarados, and Vaporeon though.

    If I were you, I'd add a set like this to your OP ShadowMarioGalaxy64. It needs more recognition!
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
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  22. Tesung

    Tesung

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    I use the same set and I agreee that it needs to be posted, it is probably it's best set other than arguable dual screens. It's coverage is insane, and it's speed allows it to give no fucks about genesects, and we know how few pokemon can say that. Now that deoxys n is gone (why was it ever here) this set can really shine. It basically works as a cleaner and a scarfer as the same mon. Btw I would consider hp fire over fire punch, as we are invested in special attack and most targets (steels) have lower spdef.
  23. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    This is what I meant - Deoxys-S has a niche, which NOTHING else can fill - extremely fast revenge killer which can switch between moves. Being Choice locked (also in a metagame where Shadow Tag/Arena Trap users are available) is not only momentum killer (if you use wrong move), but may end up as 100% trapped and dead Pokemon. This guy totally ignores this fact. BTW about more special attack based spread - if you don't care about Volcarona and Blissey (my team actually does, even if they aren't that common) this EVs spread is better. And on mine one more thing - I still like this little oomph on damage in case I must use physical attack after SpA drop from Psycho Boost. But honestly I would swap Fire Punch, as with only 20 Atk EVs is really weak. While base power difference is noticeable, HP Fire in this case will IMO work better.

    Yep, not that common, but better be safe just in case. Although I would need to check some numbers to see if little additional bulk helps to survive certain hits. If it does - you may lower it for example to +1 DD Dragonite level if you feel this is your need (although IMO next best speed bench mark is the one which allows you to outspeed Scarf Genesect or Volcarona after one QD). If not - IMO just stick to this speed number. You have ALOT of possibilities for Speed EVs numbers taking into account that with 0 Speed EVs and Neutral nature you STILL outspeed positive base 130 (by 2 points).
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  24. ShadowMarioGalaxy64

    ShadowMarioGalaxy64

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    By popular demand (and just for being a damn good set), Kejmur's set has been added to the list. Gary2346's deviation has also been added as a side note (both sets rocked, but watch for Bulky Psychic, Ghost, and Water-Types!)
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  25. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Haunter laying down the law.

    So how valuable is the dual screen set this generation? Suicide rock leads aren't worth it, I believe. But does the hyper offense lead still cut it on teams?

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