Pokémon Deoxys-Speed

[Always!]

I may have forgotten that Ice Beam could ALSO be used for the occasional Defogger, possibly scaring it off and preventing Defog from getting out (see Mandibuzz). My views are that "if threats are covered, you can afford to use other attacks and means of dealing with your opponent", but that's just me.

That does make sense, but one must remember that Deoxys-S offences are still rather pitiful, and without investment, it loses out the ability to do damage to defogers. What I find quite saddening is that I still don't think Deoxys-S can KO Mandibuzz after SR anyway, (assuming it doesn't switch into the Ice Beam, and most Defogers are bulky on the special side (Togekiss which is OU, yay, etc...), so....

IMO, its fine to use Deoxys like that, but keep in mind:

252 SpA Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 166-196 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

^That calc really sums it up :P

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

That calc really sums it up :P

By the time Mandibuzz has entered the field, my intent is that it has already taken prior damage anyways, but it's just a minor use for Ice Beam. The 4x Ice Weak Pokemon are the bigger threats, though, which is where Ice Beam truly comes in handy if you're covered by...let's say a Heatran when against Genesect and Scizor (as well as Ferrothorn, but Taunt will usually stop it as well).

 

[Always!]

By the time Mandibuzz has entered the field, my intent is that it has already taken prior damage anyways, but it's just a minor use for Ice Beam. The 4x Ice Weak Pokemon are the bigger threats, though, which is where Ice Beam truly comes in handy if you're covered by...let's say a Heatran when against Genesect and Scizor (as well as Ferrothorn, but Taunt will usually stop it as well).

Well, yes, thats what I said in the post before that, that it depends on your teammates. Ice beam is a very Viablo option on something that can revenge kill like this thing.

Also, would it be viable if one were to run a Naive set, splitting (non-equally) the offences and using it to KO weakened pokemon like Chomp, Scizor etc...?

I would like to try that out if using a set like

Deoxys-S@ Focus sash
100 Atk/176 SpA/252 Spe
Naive Nature

~Stealth Rocks
~Taunt
~Fire Punch
~Ice Beam


IIRC, there is a set like this somewhere, so would it be viable to Set up Rocks/Taunt the opposition, switch to an advantageous match up if there is something Deoxys-S can revenge, and conserve it in case it needs to set up SR again or Revenge kill a weakened "mon?

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Deoxys-S@ Focus sash
100 Atk/176 SpA/252 Spe
Naive Nature

~Stealth Rocks
~Taunt
~Fire Punch
~Ice Beam

One thing I would definitely miss is Magic Coat, but that's just me. I'll do more research into this one tomorrow or something.

 

[Always!]

One thing I would definitely miss is Magic Coat, but that's just me. I'll do more research into this one tomorrow or something.

Magic coat is more useful on Deoxys-D, who is slower and benefits from the priority, and any reflected hazards, making its job quicker.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Deoxys-S@ Focus sash
100 Atk/176 SpA/252 Spe

So I counted to 510 and you went a little over it (20 points to be exact), mind giving your actual spread? I'm guessing 80 attack?

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

You know what really hit me? With the Metagame change of Mega Lucario and Genesect being gone, how exactly does this change Deoxys-S? I would like to see some discussion on that while I start updating again. If anybody has any input, that would be absolutely lovely.

 

[sidakarya]

The biggest change I see is that Deoxys-S has been largely abandoned as a hazard lead in favour of Deoxys-D. Whereas Deo-S, being rather not bulky, falls to strong priority, before setting up two layers of hazards, Deo-D can get them up absolutely guaranteed - if your opponent hasn't any of the seven or so things, that can fell you in one shot, you don't have to expect counterplay from the opponent except the odd Trickscarf-lead. I've explained in great detail, how Deoxys-D is the perfect HO hazard-lead, much more reliable than Deo-S, and so reliable to the point of being unhealthy imo. (it has not become S-rank, as I've hoped, but it's still what I would call metagame-shifting in a big way)

I actually would not blame the rise of Deosharp to the loss of Genesect, on another note. M-Lucario was a far bigger obstacle to Bisharp, after all, and anyway at that time people had not yet discovered the joys of Deo-D hazard-stacking. I suspect, it really rose to prominence because of Deoxys-S's test - at first was Deo-D a surrogate Deo-S for these kinds of teams, at which point it was discovered, it was far better at its job than Deo-S.

These days, Deo-S seem to be used for what other niches it has besides this, most notably a LO all-purpose revenge-killing set, sometimes dual screens.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I agree with sidakarya, Deo-D has largely eclipsed Deo-S as a dedicated hazard lead. I think that's been known for quite a while now, and Deosharp has been popular even when MegaLuke was still rampant (although maybe it's becoming even more so now)! During Deo-S's suspect test the LO revenging set was usually the best set that Deo-S could run. It certainly appreciates two of the strongest ESpeed users getting the boot from OU. Although Deo-S itself was the only suspect not found to be ban-worthy, it's still uniquely effective at its revenging job.

The one Deo-S set I've been using lately has been a hybrid of the two sets: using SR in the first moveslot, but with Life Orb alongside Ice Beam / Psycho Boost / Superpower in the final three slots. This hits most of the targets for standard LO Deo-S, but due to the fact that Deo-S is actually more common as a pure LO revenger now, many opponents will switch and aren't prepared for a "surprise" SR on offensive Deo-S. Maintaining your revenge killing potential while also being able to throw down a quick hazard is Deo-S's best bet currently.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

sidakarya and Shroomisaur
You two make a pretty valid point here. With people finally realizing Deoxys-D as the hazard setter, Deoxys-S is much closer to a middle-man between Offense and Support (that or Revenge Killing). However, one could argue another point: Since most people expect an All-Out Attacker set, a Suicide Hazard Set could throw the opponent off, but it's merely the surprise factor (much like Special Attacking Base Skywalker) that would do it, not entirely the set itself.

Now comes the much bigger questions. Compared to other Psychics, who does their job better than anything specific in comparison to Deoxys-S? Revenge Killing Psychics typically comes down to Alakazam and Deoxys-S, Hazard Setting comes down to Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S, Screens comes down to Espeon, Deoxys-D, and Deoxys-S, won't go into Damp Rock...the absolutely only thing Deoxys-S has going for it is surprise factor. While that can help somewhat, it's not the greatest thing to rely on.

 

[mertyville]

Thinking about it Deoxys can be a great addition to sun teams. With Heat Rock and Sunny Day support...or outright being an offensive threat by fooling the opponent to be a support set and go for a coverage move like Fire Punch which can be boosted by Sun as well.

 

[dumbguyfin]

I find Deoxys S to be able to run a lot of sets effectively, but it just seems a little bit outclassed in all of them, and its typing certainly isnt helping. Alakazam is more reliable revenge killer and "safety button" (no matter how many speed/attack boosts opponent has i am able to kill it) and Deo D is better hazard setter/supporter. Deo S also lost its niche to outspeed and 1 hit ko scarfed genesect, with it banned. And i feel that priority has become even more common lately, hindering Deo S even more. It is a solid poke, but (imo) a lot of people overestimate it a bit.

 

[nmitchell890]

Just wondering, what is the best EV spread for the Life Orb revenge killer set? At the moment I'm using the same EV spread as last gen before it got banned, is it still the most efficient or is there a better spread out there?

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Just wondering, what is the best EV spread for the Life Orb revenge killer set? At the moment I'm using the same EV spread as last gen before it got banned, is it still the most efficient or is there a better spread out there?

Max SpA, enough speed to outspeed scarfchomp and the rest into attack.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Just wondering, what is the best EV spread for the Life Orb revenge killer set? At the moment I'm using the same EV spread as last gen before it got banned, is it still the most efficient or is there a better spread out there?

Max SpA, enough speed to outspeed scarfchomp and the rest into attack.

The exact spread depends on whether you're using HP Fire or Fire Punch. I believe HP fire is most effective, in which case the spread would be:
16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spd

 

[nmitchell890]

Thanks guys

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

20 Atk Fire Punch hits as hard as 252 SpA Hidden Power Fire assuming equal defensive stats.

Considering the fire move is mainly to hit steel types like Scizor, Ferrothorn and Skarmory, Hidden Power Fire seems more desirable.

If outspeeding scarfchomp is your benchmark then with 30 speed IVs (31 IVs is impossible with HP Fire) you would need 244 EVs in speed (possibly 240, I'm not sure how 499.5 for Garchomp rounds).

This leaves:
252 SpA
244 (240) Spe
12 (16) Atk

 

[TooMuchSugar]

20 Atk Fire Punch hits as hard as 252 SpA Hidden Power Fire assuming equal defensive stats.

Considering the fire move is mainly to hit steel types like Scizor, Ferrothorn and Skarmory, Hidden Power Fire seems more desirable.

If outspeeding scarfchomp is your benchmark then with 30 speed IVs (31 IVs is impossible with HP Fire) you would need 244 EVs in speed (possibly 240, I'm not sure how 499.5 for Garchomp rounds).

This leaves:
252 SpA
244 (240) Spe
12 (16) Atk

Stats always round down so you only need 240.
I've been wondering if anyone's found some niche moves in Deoxy-S's movepool that could be used to revenge kill specific threats. Grass Knot, Knock Off, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt all sound like they could be useful if you were weak to, say, Hippowdon (Grass Knot), Alakazam (Knock Off), or Gyarados (Thunderbolt).

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

I've been wondering if anyone's found some niche moves in Deoxy-S's movepool that could be used to revenge kill specific threats. Grass Knot, Knock Off, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt all sound like they could be useful if you were weak to, say, Hippowdon (Grass Knot), Alakazam (Knock Off), or Gyarados (Thunderbolt).

This can always pop off a surprise hit on some Pokemon and I've brought up the possibility of Knock Off on a set in terms of support.

Right now, it's looking like Deoxys-S has become the new Mew: Jack of All Trades, but outclassed in almost all of them. I'm currently editing the main post, so once that is done, I'll put up another post.

 

[SotheBlacKnight]

This can always pop off a surprise hit on some Pokemon and I've brought up the possibility of Knock Off on a set in terms of support.

I actually run a Deoxys-S with Knock-off and full Attack investment and it's pretty useful to take out non-scarfed Lati@s, especially Life orb sets.

 

[Hail Magikarp]

This is the current set im using with deoxys-s and god ITS Been on hellofa revenge killer, i foten lead with him and as of this my opponent will often assume its the standard Hazard and ends up bringing in stuff like T-tar and genesect only to be OHK by superpower and hp fire


Deoxys-S
Life orb
Mild nature
12 att Evs 252 sp. att Evs and rest in speed

Superpower
Hidden Power fire
Psycho boost
Ice beam

The anonymt if things this thing revenge kill is ridicoulous, smashing through HO teams which why i decided to use him on my team from to begin with. I know my evs needs tweaking so if anyone could help me with that IT would be great.

 

[Hail Magikarp]

This is the current set im using with deoxys-s and god ITS Been on hellofa revenge killer, i foten lead with him and as of this my opponent will often assume its the standard Hazard and ends up bringing in stuff like T-tar and genesect only to be OHK by superpower and hp fire


Deoxys-S
Life orb
Mild nature
12 att Evs 252 sp. att Evs and rest in speed

Superpower
Hidden Power fire
Psycho boost
Ice beam

The anonymt if things this thing revenge kill is ridicoulous, smashing through HO teams which why i decided to use him on my team from to begin with. I know my evs needs tweaking so if anyone could help me with that IT would be great.

Anonymt-amount
Lol FUCK AUTO SPELL AND srry for double posting

 

[Stallmory]

I think 252 Spe EVs are nice just to speed tie with other Deo-S you may find.


PS: You can always edit your previous post in order to correct something instead of d-posting.

 

[BurningFury101]

Deoxys-S personally is my favourite form for one reason: It can revenge kill without being locked into a move. I know it's already been discussed in earlier forums, so I won't go into deep detail, but here's the set I use as of now (Two EV spreads, lol)

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe / 120 SAtk / 136 Atk OR 212 Spe / 160 SAtk / 136 Atk
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam
- Superpower

So lets go into the EVs as there are two spreads. The first one is my personal preferred one, 252 in Speed for outspeeding just about everything that isn't scarfed in the entire game; Ubers or Not. We put 136 in Atk for a guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rocks down on Mega TTar, and to make it more perfect, 120 SAtk allows an OHKO on Physical Bulky, or All Out Attacking Mega Venusaur. The Second spread is very similar, we have 212 to outspeed +1 Adamant Charizard (Trust me this has saved my life) Atk is the same, and rest poured into SAtk so Psycho Boost hits like a bomb. Now onto the set, Rash Nature is there as Deo-S is a mixed attacker, Psycho Boost is just... don't even go about out powerful it is (Only if Deoxys got Contrary). Knock Off is a move I haven't seen that often, it's a VERY good move and is more reliable then Ice Beam to take out the Lati Twins, or other opposing Psychics (Not very good for Aegi as you get a 3HKO unless you get a crit). Ice Beam and Superpower is our coverage.

Let me note that this set (or the moveset at least) was from Pokeaim, I just put it at what I thought were the best EVs. Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Deoxys-S is that it can't use all these natures. For example, It get's outsped quite easily from a lot of scarfers unless using a Speed + Nature, but that leaves Deoxys with okay, but pretty bad attacking stats, sometimes leaving it just too weak to sometimes even 2HKO things! By the way, what is your preferred Speed EV on Deoxys-S? And if you read everything here then you my friend are a gentlemen.

Edit: Here's a replay of Deoxys-S cleaning a battle the last three turns: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-104606154

 

[komomas]

Man-Jensen (Deoxys-Speed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Taunt

This is the set I currently run. Deoxys-D might do this better but that fast as fuck Taunt has been so good.

Deoxys is one of my favorite Pokemon so I really hope he doesn't end up banned again :(

Imo this set set gets outclassed by the sash lead.deoxys s is not bulky at all and its main roles is taunting then seting up then dying.I think that set u have is beter with deoxys d