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Desert Storm

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Mazz, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    An Ubers RMT by Pokemazter

    Introduction

    Ubers is a tier I've always wanted to really get the hang of, even since the disaster of a team I made just over a year ago. It's the closest thing to a metagame where "everything goes", giving it a very appealing aspect. Save for the fact that Ubers has a plethora of my favourite Pokemon in it, it's still a strange tier for me, as it's a much stronger and bulkier metagame than OU. I've found it relatively difficult to learn on my own, with many "checks" to certain threats only checking certain sets, as well as the threat of an Extremekiller Arceus or Dragon Dance Rayquaza lurking around every corner. Despite its difficulty however, I'm enjoying the tier and the many surprises it brings. Hopefully this RMT will allow me to understand the tier a bit better.

    A vast improvement on the Ubers team I made over a year ago, Desert Storm is designed to capitalize on the less common weather in Sandstorm, which I've found to work exceptionally well in this metagame. However, I did not want it to be a carbon-copy of most Ubers Sand teams. Through the layering of entry hazards and the removal and/or weakening of key threats, an Excadrill sweep will quickly open up. That's the main goal of the team. However, I am capable of taking a more passive approach, and using Giratina to stall an opponent and rack up some severe hazards damage through Dragon Tail. With a very versatile weather core, Desert Storm is exceptionally capable of breaking through opposing Sun and Hail teams, as they're typically incapable of handling the constant change in weather. Rain teams aren't as easy however, especially after having modified my team slightly.​


    Team-building process

    1.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The original variant of the team featured Support Arceus-Grass over Kyogre, as its unparalleled ability to step in front of Kyogre's Water-type STAB and Groudon's Ground-type STAB was exactly what a Sandstorm team needed. The team still functioned exactly the same as portrayed in the introduction - get sand up, weaken bulky Pokemon, clean house with Excadrill, or just stall with hazards and Giratina. Thanks to its Thunder Wave support (which Kyogre also has), faster threats such as Darkrai, Rayquaza, and Genesect were practically mitigated, as the team could just walk over them. Its STAB, Judgement, alongside Earth Power supplied the team with balanced coverage, but didn't quite hit what I needed it to. I experimented with Ice Beam and Flamethrower over Earth Power (Recover was obviously in the fourth slot), but I was unable to find a happy medium. The compounded weaknesses to things such as Rayquaza and Ho-Oh eventually caused me to dump Arceus-Grass in favour for Kyogre (as Brave Bird and an unboosted Outrage 2HKO Kyogre, whereas they shit on Arceus-Grass) in an attempt to alleiviate that weakness,which leads us to the current version of the team.​

    2.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    In the current version of the team, Kyogre replaces Arceus-Grass to help deal with Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, as well as making the weather war easier on Tyranitar. Besides that change, the team retains the same motives. So far, I've had mixed results regarding Kyogre. Its coverage and power is phenomenal, and so is its ability to crush opposing Groudon. However, its low Speed and still-not-that-great of bulk is a bit of a let down, as it doesn't check those two threat Pokemon as well as I thought it would, and just makes it harder for them to switch-in. Arceus-Grass also allowed me to play mind games with my opponent, as they would typically tend to be more cautious with their bulkier Pokemon, anticipating that I may be running the Extremekiller variant. I also miss having something to be able to throw in front of Ferrothorn and absorb Leech Seed, since it's excruciatingly annoying. This variant of the team still needs work, and is nowhere near complete.​

    In-Depth

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar | Leftovers
    Sand Stream | Careful Nature
    252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 SpD
    Stealth Rock | Crunch | Stone Edge | Low Kick


    Any Sandstorm team needs something to introduce the weather. The only two viable options in Ubers happen to be Hippowdon and Tyranitar, and I decided to go with the latter of the two. Tyranitar's been a very solid member of the team, more than reliably laying Stealth Rock, limiting how many times specific Pokemon, such as Ho-Oh, Kyurem-W, and Lugia, can switch in. Crunch is here to provide Tyranitar a powerful STAB option, nailing the handful of Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon found in the tier for super effective damage. With the Lati twins having gained so much popularity, it's a handy move to put them back in their place. Most people anticipate the pursuit regardless, so it does have some surprise factor. Stone Edge is here to deal heavy damage to Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon, specifically Ho-Oh, which causes my team issues. Low Kick is here to deal some form of damage to Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, Ferrothorn, and any heavy opponents that may not want to take a Low Kick to the groin, or Pokemon that resist Tyranitar's Dark-type STAB.

    However, I am slightly disappointed by Tyranitar's performance, and I believe it may simply boil down to the EV spread and/or how I'm using it. What's disappointing me is how much damage it takes from the weaker Special Attacks in the tier, such as Kyogre's Scald, Surf from Latias, or Dragon Pulse from Dialga or Giratina-O. Will I remove it? No, since Hippowdon sucks more than Tyranitar, especially for what I need it to do, so I won't be replacing Tyranitar, just editing it. I have considered just using a full Special Defense investment in order to better stomach these attacks, as Tyranitar's attack investment doesn't do it a whole lot. I rarely attack with it anyways. Thoughts and opinions?​
    Defensive Synergy:
    Excadrill, Giratina-A, Genesect: [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D, Giratina-A: [​IMG]
    Giratina-A, Genesect: [​IMG]
    None, but Giratina-A can tolerate hits: [​IMG]
    Excadrill, Kyogre, Genesect: [​IMG]
    Kyogre, Giratina-A: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill | Air Balloon
    Sand Rush | Adamant Nature
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Swords Dance | Earthquake | Iron Head | Rapid Spin


    The trump card of the team, Excadrill is here to benefit from Sandstorm and sweep the opposing team. Thanks to its ability, Sand Rush, Excadrill becomes even faster than 252+ Speed Deoxys-S, allowing it to revenge kill and sweep a wide variety of threats. However, its base 135 Attack stat isn't enough to plough through Ubers, which is where Swords Dance comes into play, giving Excadrill 810 Attack, more than enough to best many threats in Ubers. In fact, the only things Earthquake and Iron Head don't OHKO after a Swords Dance boost are incredulously bulky Pokemon, such as Groudon, Ho-Oh, Lugia, and both Giratina formes. Earthquake is STAB, dealing severe damage to the Fire-, Electric-, Rock-, and Steel-type Pokemon available to the Ubers tier, whereas Iron Head smashes the stray Ice-type while also devastating Flying-type and Levitating Pokemon, who'd otherwise scoff at Earthquake's feeble attempts to reach them. Rapid Spin provides some team support by clearing away any hazards, as I tend to bounce my team in and out a lot if I don't have the upper hand. It works rather well in conjunction with Air Balloon, as it makes Excadrill temporarily immune to Spikes, reducing how much damage it takes from switching in.

    It's that Air Balloon however, that I really don't like having on Excadrill. I have tried Life Orb on it twice, both times with mixed results. Would Leftovers be a better idea? Also, another consideration would be changing Iron Head to Rock Slide in order to better mitigate the Ho-Oh and Rayquaza issue, since its chance for flinch isn't that high, and it doesn't do a lot of damage to the former anyways? Is keeping Iron Head for Giratina-O still the better idea? Should I forgo Rapid Spin on Excadrill and run Earthquake, Iron Head, and Rock Slide, and maybe invest in an alternate spinner? Comments and opinions on these matters are welcome.​

    Defensive Synergy:
    Deoxys-D, Giratina-A: [​IMG]
    Tyranitar, Kyogre, Giratina-A: [​IMG]
    None, but Giratina-A can tolerate hits: [​IMG]
    Kyogre, Giratina-A: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre | Leftovers
    Drizzle | Modest Nature
    252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Thunder Wave | Scald | Ice Beam | Thunder


    Not going to lie, but seeing this thing on my own Sandstorm team is throwing my OCD off the charts. It almost seems counter-productive to have Kyogre on this team, as Drizzle annuls Tyranitar's Sand Stream. However, as does Groudon's Drought, and facing sun teams without Kyogre would be much more difficult. Besides the weather war, Kyogre's here mostly to slow up threats, sponge, and deliver hard hits. And it does that quite well, with Thunder Wave crippling the many Choice Scarf users found in the tier, any Speed-boosting sweepers, and generally fast Pokemon, allowing my team to get the jump on them. Scald is used for soaking through the burly Rock-, Fire-, and Ground-type opponents that seem to be everywhere in Ubers. I opted to use Scald over Hydro Pump, and even Surf, for both PP issues and that ridiculously high chance to burn, which seems rather handy when the biggest threats to my team are physical attackers. Ice Beam introduces some coverage, shooting down any Dragon-, Flying-, or Grass-type that wants to switch-in on Kyogre and start causing trouble, while Thunder is typically used for punching holes in opposing Kyogre, Arceus-Water, and Palkia.

    I mention this below in my "Potential Changes" section, but I've been strongly considering using Arceus-Water over Kyogre in order to further handle the issue with Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, as Kyogre's bulk just isn't what I thought it was, especially in comparison to Arceus'. Arceus-Water also happens to be faster than Kyogre, which is another issue I've been having with Kyogre - it's just too slow. However, I don't want to lose out on an easier weather war. If I don't make that change, I can see myself running Surf or Hydro Pump over Scald to obtain more power, and maybe even changing the set. I'd greatly like some help on this issue, as I'm somewhat divided between removing Kyogre and keeping it.

    Defensive Synergy:
    Excadrill, Giratina-A: [​IMG]
    Giratina-A, Genesect: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Defense | Leftovers
    Pressure | Calm Nature
    252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Toxic | Spikes | Seismic Toss | Recover


    I've been asked by a few people as to why I just don't run Deoxys-Speed over this thing, and I answer survivability. With the amount of overpowered attackers in this tier, I have no interest in running something that frail for the purpose of laying Spikes. I'm also "testing", if you will, how effective Deoxys-D really is in Ubers now that it's been pushed back up here. I'll admit, it could be better (like 30+ more base HP points kinda better), but it's a reliable setter considering Taunt is less common in Ubers than it is in OU. Toxic allows Deoxys-D to wallbreak while setting hazards, while also keeping setup sweepers from becoming too dangerous. Spikes are here to either make stalling possible with Giratina-A, or turn Excadrill's 2HKOs into OHKOs. Seismic Toss keeps Deoxys-D from becoming Taunt-fodder, opting to be able to hit Arceus-Normal instead of the Giratina formes. Recover boosts Deoxys-D's survivability, since its low base HP kinda cripples it a bit, so being able to recover any lost HP is a plus.

    I really don't have any complaints about Deoxys-D, since its probably the only Pokemon that does it's job on this team effectively and without issue. However, I have considered using Deoxys-Speed with a spread similar to the one I used in DW OU, being able to bring more offense for the team. The spread can be found in the "Potential Changes" part of my RMT, and I'll highlight what it's capable of down there.

    Defensive Synergy:
    Excadrill, Giratina-A, Genesect: [​IMG]
    Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect:[​IMG]
    Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect:[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Giratina | Leftovers
    Pressure | Impish Nature
    248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Will-O-Wisp | Rest | Sleep Talk | Dragon Tail


    Giratina-A is by far the textbook definition of a wall. This thing takes shit from nothing bar its Dragon-type brethren and a select few Ghost- and Dark-types while being able to cripple and force out an extreme variety of threats. Giratina-A is arguably the closest thing to a lovechild between Skarmory and Blissey if they ever had one. Beating Giratina-A with physical attacks is really hard, but it becomes harder to so once you're burnt by Will-O-Wisp, the fourth most innacurate move in the modern metagame. The residual damage brought by the burn, Sandstorm, and entry hazards can force many opponents into submission very quickly. Dragon Tail increases that submission speed, dealing a small amount of damage and forcing the opponent out, meaning they'll take more hazards damage. What makes Giratina-A even more of a monster is that it uses a RestTalk strategy very well, since there's not a lot of Pokemon that can force it out once it rests. Despite Sleep Talk being a jackass every now and then and using Rest or Will-O-Wisp on a burnt or Fire-type opponent, it can be super useful if it selects Dragon Tail, as it bypasses the negative priority brought about by it.

    Unlike Tyranitar, Giratina-A is really good at stomaching the attacks it was designed to do so. It does it too well however, to a point where it actually kills momentum on my side to use it. I'm considering using mixed Giratina-O, as highlighted in my "Potential Changes" section, as Giratina-O brings nearly as much bulk to the table as Giratina-A does in exchange for more offence and a Ground-type immunity, something my team wouldn't mind having. Giratina-O makes dealing with Shadow Claw-less variants of Extremekiller Arceus significantly easier, as they would become incapable of doing any harm to me. This is probably a change I will make, as I really don't see any cons to the change (besides losing a status absorber and some bulk). Some feedback on this would be appreciated.

    Defensive Synergy:
    Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect:[​IMG]
    Excadrill, Genesect: [​IMG]
    Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect:[​IMG]
    Kyogre, Genesect: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Genesect | Choice Scarf
    Download | Naive Nature
    4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    U-turn | Flamethrower | Ice Beam | Thunderbolt


    Genesect is really effective in Ubers. It sits at such a unique Speed tier that allows it to outspeed all common Choice Scarf users found in Ubers, bar Terrakion and Palkia. It's got insane coverage, and an ability that lets it capitalize on a mixed set. U-turn is STAB, allowing Genesect to pivot in and out of a match, dealing damage as it goes. U-turn is also handy for hurting Grass-, Psychic-, and Dark-type opponents with super effective damage. Flamethrower lets Genesect target Steel-type opponents, such as opposing Genesect, Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Arceus-Steel, while also hitting Ice-types for solid damage. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam create perfect coverage alongside each other, with Thunderbolt hitting Water-types, such as Kyogre and Arceus-Water, and Ice Beam freezing the plethora of Dragon-types found in Ubers. Both moves hit Flying-types for super effective damage, Ice Beam hitting the odd Thundurus and Shaymin-Sky, while Thunderbolt hits most others.

    I can't complain about Genesect, maybe the only thing being that U-Turn doesn't seem to hit hard enough against Darkrai and Mewtwo. It's just too good to even bother trying. However, if it wasn't for U-turn being my go-to check to Mewtwo and Darkrai, I'd probably attempt a specially-based Rock Polish set, since I have a lot of experience with that specific spread, and it does really well against the Ubers tier on paper. Can't hurt to try, eh? But, I reiterate, Genesect is absolutely fine where it is, and I'm pleased with how its performing.​


    Defensive Synergy:
    Tyranitar, Kyogre, Giratina-A: [​IMG]

    Potential Changes

    [​IMG] (Arceus-Water) over [​IMG] (Kyogre)

    This change stems from the issue of Ho-Oh and Rayquaza and attempting to fix it with Kyogre. However, Kyogre's lack of Speed and mildly disappointing bulk have me thinking about axing it and replacing it with Arceus-Water. Arceus-Water has better bulk for taking on things such as Ho-Oh and Rayquaza thanks to its higher HP and Defense stats. This has a good and bad effect almost, as I no longer have to neuter my own Sand when switching Arceus-Water in, as Kyogre's Drizzle did, but it makes winning the weather war more difficult, as now its back to just Tyranitar running the show. If I were to use Arceus-Water over Kyogre, I'd most likely run the Sun Support set, but with the Special Defense investment in Defense, a Bold Nature, and Judgement in the fourth slot, allowing me to check problem Pokemon, such as Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, better.

    [​IMG] (Giratina-Origin) over [​IMG] (Girataina-Altered)

    Unlike the above change, this change is designed to make my team more offensive, which I believe is why it struggles from time to time - that lack of backup offense should Excadrill and Genesect fall. This is a risky trade-off for me, as it's only letting me break through a handful of bulkier Pokemon and pick off weak Pokemon in exchange for the bulk that Giratina-A provides my team. This change also gives me a way to deal some significant damage to opposing Griatina-A, which my team tends to have major difficulties with, especially if Kyogre or Genesect happens to have fainted. If I were to apply this change and use Giratina-O over Giratina A, I'd run the Mixed Attacker set with Hidden Power Fire, making it easier for my team to bypass Ferrothorn, Giratina-A and other annoyances.

    [​IMG] (Deoxys-Speed) over [​IMG] (Deoxys-Defense)

    This change isn't one regarding performance, but about bringing additional offence to the table. Now, in case I lost you on Deoxys-S being an offensive Pokemon, my apologies. I know it isn't seen as an offensive Pokemon, but it's good at offence if you know what you're doing with it. Here's the spread:
    Deoxys-Speed (open)
    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 148 HP / 156 SpA / 204 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Now, it probably seems a little unorthodox, but the surprise factor is where Deoxys-Speed excels here. The spread is designed to garner a guaranteed 2HKO on mixed Giratina-O with Ice Beam, while outspeeding Choice Scarf Genesect by a single point. The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP to slightly "fluff" up Deoxys-Speed's frail bulk, allowing Deoxys-Speed to live a return Shadow Sneak from mixed Giratina with at least 31% of its HP. Any Genesect that stays in on it, or tries to come in and U-turn on it gets roasted by Hidden Power Fire, Mewtwo is 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball, Rayquaza is nuked by Ice Beam. It's just a glue Pokemon that revenge kills a wide variety of threats while still being able to deploy Spikes. This change is probably the least likely to happen, but if I change Deoxys-Defense, this is what it's being changed to.


    Past Teammembers

    Arceus-Grass (open)
    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Judgement
    - Earth Power
    - Recover

    Conclusion

    Thank you for taking the time to read my RMT (provided you did) and thank you for offering any advice or suggestions (again, provided you did). As mentioned, this team isn't anywhere near completion, with a few variables still left on the table. My goal for this team is to peak within the top ten on the PS! Ubers ladder and maybe encourage other Ubers players that Sandstorm really isn't that bad and that it can compete in such a powerhouse tier. I've left an importable if you want to test the team for weaknesses, simply try it out, or if you're just too lazy to make your own. Have fun, and thanks once again!

    Importable (open)
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Low Kick

    Excadrill @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Iron Head
    - Rapid Spin

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Toxic
    - Spikes
    - Seismic Toss
    - Recover

    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Sweep

    Sweep (makeup)
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    I fully support using Waterceus over Kyogre. Ice Beam OHKO's Rayquaza and bulky Arceus-Water outruns Ho-Oh, hits it extremely hard with Judgment, and can take some hits (hates the burn though).

    -Ice Beam
    -Judgment (Could try Surf, but Judgment is better because PP wars are rare)
    -Recover
    -Thunder Wave/Calm Mind/Roar (I'd go for TWave...trolls offensive teams)

    Could work. Run enough speed to outrun max speed non-Scarf base 95's like Rayquaza (168 EV's). Run 252 HP, and put the rest in Special Attack.


    To further lessen your weakness to Ho-Oh (your team hates it if you cannot get/keep rocks up), you could try Stone Edge over Pursuit on TTar. I don't like double STAB on most things, and TTar takes a solid shot from a Latios Grass Knot or HP Fighting so it will not always switch out (especially if your opponent predicts the Pursuit). Pursuit mauls Latias, but you have Latios covered already with Genesect. By the way, keep TTar as your physically defensive Giratina-A checks EKiller nicely. I disagree that Hippo sucks though.

    I would run Naive over Hasty on Genesect to take physical priority better, and also give it a better chance of surviving Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat after SR. That's just me though.

    Anyway, solid team. Good job.
  3. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    I'll probably go with Thunder Wave. I'll spend some time to test it, then work it into the RMT.

    I think I'll do that too, but it probably won't happen often - Tyranitar hates taking Earthquake.

    Doing that gives opposing Genesect a guaranteed SpA boost though. I'll do it anyways to take Extremespeed from Arceus better.

    Thanks for the rate.
  4. Vashimus

    Vashimus

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    Have you tried Focus Sash on Tyranitar?

    Typically I find T-tar performs better in the lead position as he takes care of ubers that people commonly lead with and can set up SR reliably ('Cept for Darkrai). He doesn't have much staying power as he does in OU due to the overall strength of attacks, so it's harder to maintain to weather up for Excadrill.

    Speaking of, Substitute would probably be beneficial to Excadrill so he can set up on the most common stallmons (Lugia, Giratina, Chansey, Ferrothorn, Forretress) and put pressure on them, unless you absolutely NEED Rapid Spin on there. But Excadrill isn't much of a sweeper in Ubers as he was in OU, moreover just a wrecking ball that paves way for other things, so I guess Rapid Spin is justified.

    Pretty solid team from what I can see so far. :)
  5. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    What I meant by it not taking the weaker attacks well is it taking like ~80% from those attacks, not just flat-out dying. I will not and never use Focus Sash Tyranitar, that's just dumb in my mind. Shed Shell, Chople Berry, or Leftovers, but not Focus Sash. I rarely lead with Tyranitar anyways, that's typically Genesect's job.

    I really don't see how Substitute helps it set up on any of those, bar Forretress, since Lugia and Giratina carry Whirlwind and Dragon Tail / Roar respectively, with two of those bypassing Substitute. Chansey has Seismic Toss, which breaks the Substitute regardless, and Ferrothorn's Power Whip does the same too. If I were to run anything over Rapid Spin, it'd be Rock Slide, which I believe I already made mention of.

    Thanks!
  6. lousy918

    lousy918

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    I'm not gonna bother to quote; however waterceus judgement only does ~50% to ho-oh. that does not count as extremely hard.
    under exca's description, you wrote sand rush allows it to outspeed 252+ deoxys-d. I hope you meant deoxys-s, coz many things outspeed deoxys-d
    physically based genesect does better than its special counterpart in ubers, with max atk and iron head and explosion > flamethrower and tbolt. also genesect fails to outspeed scarfkia.
    keep pursuit on ttar, it traps other things as well such as kyogre and palkia locked into non-water move.
    waterceus > kyogre
    keep balloon on exca, gliscor is a turd otherwise
  7. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    88+ SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment (Water) vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 234-276 (56.38 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    It's a guaranteed 2HKO after leftovers. Safe to say thats hitting Ho-Oh extremely hard, since Stealth Rock and Brave Bird recoil will quickly drain that other 50%.

    Yeah, that was a typo. Thanks for pointing that out.

    I use the special variant for a reason, seeing that its my best answer to Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and opposing Flying-type Pokemon. I've never been a huge fan of physical Genesect. If you could throw me some calculations regarding how much better it is than the variant I'm using, I'll greatly consider it.

    Also, I know Choice Scarf Palkia outspeeds Scarf Genesect. I merely forgot to include Palkia in that abysmally short list. Writing for 3+ hours straight has that affect on people.

    Even in situations like those, Pursuit is doing ~20%, which I don't see relevance in, especially when Stone Edge does my team a bigger favour.

    Glad to see you also support that idea.

    | 50 | Gliscor | 2.05672% | 1915 | 2.309% | 1510 | 2.281% |

    I'm really not worried about running into Gliscor. If I do, odds are I switch to Genesect or Arceus-Water. Why would I keep Excadrill in on a Gliscor?
  8. Brave Bird spam

    Brave Bird spam

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    I think water arceus should definitely replace kyogre because it has so much more physical bulk and doesn't disrupt the sand. A variant with ice beam/ judgment/ recover/ twave could work pretty well.

    Physical scarf genesect seems like a better option than special, it that's just my opinion though, and you're right, ferrothorn would be annoying without a heavily invested flamethrower to ward it off.

    All in all, solid team and great format. The defensive synergy things are a nice twist that I don't see too often. Good job.
  9. Donkey

    Donkey

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    533
    The main issue you have right now is a massive Rayquaza weakness. Arceus-Water alleviates this somewhat, but Rayquaza will still switch in after one of your opponents pokemon dies against your Ttar, Excadrill, Deo-D, or Giratina-A and either get a KO or cripple Arceus-Water. This is really the nature of sand stall since Rayquaza is nearly impossible to wall.

    Deo-D can be replaced with Sp. Def skarmory to give you a way to tank Outrages and phase, but it makes you weaker to Mewtwo (even though Deo-D is not a good way to beat Mewtwo). Genesect handles Mewtwo very well so you could opt to try this change.

    "I'm really not worried about running into Gliscor. If I do, odds are I switch to Genesect or Arceus-Water. Why would I keep Excadrill in on a Gliscor?"

    Air Balloon is a necessity on Sand Stall. Otherwise, Gliscor subs up and gets free Toxic's or EQs. An EQ on Genesect means around 5 less switch ins if SR is up and you may not be able to bring in Genesect late game when you need it. A toxic'd Arceus-Water means that Rayquaza and other strong sweepers like Ho-oh can kill Arceus-Water and make your team more vulnerable to threats.
  10. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    Genesect is in my opinion enough insurance for Rayquaza, but I still support a switch to a Specially Defensive Water Arceus (or Grass Arceus, but it won't help with Ho-Oh and you said you already tried it). What Donkey didn't mention is that Choice Specs Kyogre can quite literally walk in on Deo-D and proceed to nuke and OHKO everything (barring your Kyogre, but it outspeeds and 2HKOes anyway) with Water Spout. Water Arceus can survive the blow and use Recover. This allows it to fully drain the PP of Water Spout if it decides to stay in. If Kyogre goes for the Thunder you can just switch to Tyranitar and hit the switch in hard or setup Stealth Rock. Its a prediction game (you don't have Pursuit on it so that kind of prevents you from permanently depleting Water Spouts power but that doesn't mean it won't work :P), but its still better then having no hope as your team gets wiped out by Water Spout. If you can try to fit a Latias in that might help, but I feel it would throw off the team a little.

    Water Arceus also has the added benefit of being able to check Ho-Oh since the bird's strongest move against it is Brave Bird and that won't 2HKO.

    Lum Berry Double Dance Groudon also looks a bit threatening, as depending on which boost it chooses it can hurt the team (if it Swords Dances and Giratina-a switches in, Giratina-a won't be in such a good state, and if it uses Rock Polish when Genesect things aren't looking so good either, Deoxys-D is OHKO by +2 Earthquake after SR). Excadrill can kill off weakened ones, but since Groudon has the bulk to take an EQ and destroy the sub its not exactly reliable... I'm not really sure of a way you can deal with it better though (this is another case where Latias would be somewhat handy since it can take +2 Stone Edge and OHKO back with Grass Knot or Draco Meteor).

    Regardless this is a very well built team. Good luck with it :D.
  11. Matt Tuck

    Matt Tuck

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    33
    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam/Fire Blast
    - Low Kick

    This spread helps a bit and between fire blast and ice beam you can choose what to check more between ferrothorn and rayquaza. I would personally go with Fire Blast though.

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Downloads
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-Turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion

    Special genesect isnt doing much in ubers due to many mons having enough bulk to take even super-effective hits and can hit back pretty hard. Same thing goes for an RP special set. Physical genesect deals with darkrai, mewtwo, deoxys A much better before they proceed to rip major holes in any team as much as this one. Physical set on the other hand deals with the above threats much easier (not to consider the fact that genesect almost always gets an attack boost). Iron Head is a decent STAB with the flinch factor. Ice Beam deals with any Rayquaza not carrying Yache and Explosion is for threats which become too hard to take down. (Eg. Ho-Oh)

    Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave

    I agree with the arceus water addition as it is much more helpful as compared to Kyogre and can tank hits much better as well as deal with Kyogre fairly easily.

    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake/Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Substitute

    This suggestion is if you decide to change your giratina form. This spread has decent bulk, really good attack and you can phaze which along with hazard damage makes excadrill's job a whole lot easier.


    If you decide to go with giratina-A i would suggest switching Dragon Tail over to Roar simply because of Sub Ho-Oh which becomes a problem after Arceus-W is weakened and your team cant afford to take too many hits from it giving your opponent momentum and putting to much pressure on your team to deal with it.

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