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Destructive Forces

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by CedOmega, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    ~Destructive Forces~



    [​IMG]
    With Tornadus-T banned and my most successful team built around it, I decided to reconstruct a team for its Therian brother, Landorus-T. Landorus-T has great offensive presence in OU, coming at BW2 with a new ability and the still great coverage moves, typing, etc. Need I say more? Landorus-T is ultimately the star of the team and therefore steals the spotlight most battles. I decided to take a completely different approach in using Landorus-T since my last RMT (V-C8); using the Double Dance set over the Defensive pivot set. Without further due, here is Destructive Forces!

    Team at a Glance: (open)

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    [​IMG]Up Close & Presonal[​IMG]

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    Landorus@Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    Adamant nature
    72 Hp/ 252 Attk/ 184 Spd
    Earthquake, StoneEdge, SwordsDance & RockPolish


    Landorus makes the spot as the star of the show! Double Dance only adds more pressure on the opposing team to find a counter and quickly before too many stat boosts have been set in motion! 40% of the time, Landorus-T isn't the team's lead due to the expectation that it'll set up rocks; so the opponent tries to counter its efforts ASAP. Other than that, coming in on any other Pokémon that doesn't threaten it is set up on and swept away. The spread of Earthquake/ StoneEdge/ SwordsDance/ RockPolish provides Landorus-T with the notorious Edge-Quake coverage, which gives it great power against various opposing Pokémon.


    Synergy:
    • Water: Keldeo-R/ Latios
    • Ice: Keldeo-R/ Jirachi/ Heatran/ Forretress
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    Keldeo-R@Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    Timid nature
    252 Sp.Attk/ 252 Spd/ 4 Hp
    Surf, SecretSword, HiddenPower(Ghost) & CalmMind
    IVs: 31/31/30/31/30/31


    Keldeo-R makes its debut as yet another set-up sweeper that presents a huge threat to the OU tier! Keldeo has great synergy with Landorus-T, as it can come in on Water & Ice attacks aimed at him with impunity, set up at least +1 CM, & begin to sweep respectively. After a +2 CM, Keldeo does its job quite easily. Keldeo's major weakness to statuses gave me the brilliant idea to use a Pokémon I'd not used much since its release. The spread of Surf/ SecretSword/ HiddenPower (Ghost)/ CalmMind is to secure a safe dual STAB while also providing coverage for Jellicent who’d otherwise wall its entire set when running HiddenPower(Ice).


    Synergy:
    • Electric: Landorus-T/ Latios
    • Psychic: Latios/ Jirachi/ Heatran/ Forretress
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    Latios@ChoiceScarf
    Trait: Levitate
    Timid nature
    252 Sp.Attk/ 252 Spd/ 4 Def
    DracoMeteor, Psyshock, Surf & Trick


    Latios tags long on the team as the revenge killer! Scarfed Latios have been coming up in popularity and, while I often find myself contemplating between Specs and Scarf, I usually choose Scarf due to the boosted Speed capacity. Latios’ greatest threat is Scizor, which is why I chose to include its biggest threat respectively on the team, too. The spread of Psyshock/ DracoMeteor/ Surf/ Trick is the best set to use when trying to win the speed race with opposing Latios that carry HiddenPower (Fire). Draco Meteor provides Latios with enough power to revenge any sort of Specs Lati variant, as well as any other Dragon (Barr Dragonite with full Hp and Mulitscale in tact. Psyshock helps in a variety of ways: the main being its ability to revenge Keldeo, Blissey and Chansey. Trick also plays a role in revenging the before mentioned threats.

    Synergy:

    • Dark: Keldeo-R/ Heatran/ Forretress
    • Bug: Landorus-T/ Keldeo-R/ Heatran/ Forretress
    • Dragon: Jirachi/ Heatran/ Forretress
    • Ice: Keldeo-R/ Jirachi/ Heatran/ Forretress
    • Ghost: Heatran/ Forretress
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    Jirachi@Leftovers
    Trait: SereneGrace
    Careful nature
    252 Hp/ 224 Sp.Def/ 32 Spd
    IronHead, BodySlam, Wish & Protect


    Jirachi tags along as the hax master! I decided to go with the standard Sp.Defensive Rachi to better benefit Landorus-T's synergy with the Pokémon. I often switch back and forth between BodySlam and Thunder Wave, depending on what fits the situation. When I don't care for being risky with BodySlam, I use it; otherwise, it's Thunder Wave all the way. Obviously IronHead is being used on this set for Para Flinch spam. I decided to use FirePunch to rid my team of any annoying Scizor switch ins to Jirachi. I know that I have Heatran, who is next to being described, but a bit of extra assurance is never a bad thing. I've considered giving Heatran an SR+3 Attks set to be able to run a spread of IronHead/ BodySlam/ FirePunch (IcePunch)/ Wish, but I'm pretty satisfied as it is for now. Currently, it’s running IronHead/ BodySlam/ Wish/ Protect, as listed above.

    Synergy:

    • Fire: Keldeo-R/ Latios/ Heatran
    • Ground: Landorus-T/ Latios
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    Heatran@Leftovers
    Trait: FlashFire
    Calm nature
    252 Hp/ 252 Sp.Def/ 4 Sp.Attk
    LavaPlume, Toxic, StealthRock & Roar


    When I considered Heatran for the last special attack oriented Pokémon, I was suggested a defensive set, although I really am better suited to using the standard Sp.Defensive set. Therefore, I’ll be using this set for the time being. I decided to run the spread of LavaPlume/ Toxic/ Protect/ Roar to stop the momentum of any sort of setting up done by Volcarona, SubCM Jirachi & other Heatran variants that lack EarthPower. Roar, when my own hazards are up, is very useful for flushing out the opponent’s Pokémon. Its role is to devour the Fire attacks aimed at both Jirachi & Forretress, the setting up either Toxic or LavaPluming the opponent.

    Synergy:

    • Ground: Landorus-T/ Latios
    • Water: Keldeo-R/ Latios
    • Fighting: Landorus-T/ Latios
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    Forretress@Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    Relaxed nature
    252 Hp/ 176 Def/ 80 Sp.Def
    GyroBall, VoltSwitch, RapidSpin & Spikes
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0


    Now we come to our last Pokémon: Forretress, the iron ball! Forretress earned the spot for its ability to spin hazards, take physical attacks with impunity, and VoltSwitch out against opposing predicted switch ins like Magnezone, Heatran, etc. Forretress is also the ideal team member to bring in against predicted T-Waves, making it impossible for Forretress to be annoyingly burned by an attack like surprise Fire Punch(Like such surprise attacks from Jirachi, Tyranitar, etc) or unpredicted Will-o-Wisp. Its current spread of GyroBall/ VoltSwitch/ RapidSpin/ Spikes provides it with a great set to abuse repeatedly, abusing its fully invested Hp to come in on +1 DD Outrage from Haxorus, Dragonite, Salamence, etc.

    Synergy:

    • Fire: Keldeo-R/ Latios/ Heatran
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    [​IMG] Conclusion[​IMG]


    So, there you have it! I appreciate those who took the time to read my RMT and rate/suggest changes or it. I’ll be updating anywhere from every other day- every 3rd day if possible, depending on how many suggestions come in. I’ve recently dabbled on the OU ladder on Showdown!. Those on the server may or may not have faced this team, but, regardless, have fun with it!
  2. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    For some odd reason, a bunch of random "spaces" keep appearing on my RMT. Please ignore those errors until I can figure out how to fix this. Thank you.

    EDIT: Problem seems to be resolved.
  3. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Allright, im going to give some suggestions. I've never felt the need of the jolly nature on landorus-t, to be honest it is still enough fast to outspeed most things even with adamant, and the power up you will get with adamant can be noticeable sometimes. Also, since rock polish will boost your speed, you should use a different spread that lets you outspeed scarf latios at +2 with some hp evs, so you can have more chance to setup. The spread i would suggest you is: EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd with an adamant Nature.

    Now, i would honestly switch the roles of Keldeo and Latios. I feel like Latios is a bad scarfer because the drop of draco meteor will let setup a lot of things, and you have to do that move against like everything because otherwhise you wont get any ko, its also very bad that its weak to pursuit, because you wont do anything to tyranitar or scizor and they can easily pursuit you. In the other hand, i feel like keldeo can a better choice since it doesnt have the drop and it can take advantage of the opposite rain. Calm mind latios is not bad either, the set i suggest you is: Calm mind / Surf / psyshock / Dragon pulse, with a lum berry. Calm mind lets you boost your stats so that you can attempt a sweep, surf will let you hit steel types such as scizor, heatran and skarmory, while psyshock+lum berry will let you beat blissey. For everything else dragon pulse hits just fine. Lum berry here helps also to setup against those bulky waters with toxic or breloom, try it out because its a really good set. If you dont feel like its necessary, then the standard Lo set is worth a try.

    Now, for jirachi, i've never felt like fire punch does more than hitting ferrothorn or scizor, and since you have heatran here you actually have zero reason to use it. I think you should also put sr somewhere else, because your team would really appreciate the wish support, so i would replace wish for sr. Btw Instead of fire punch i would put protect, because more often than not, jirachi will have to switch against lets say a surf boosted of latios, take 50% damages, you wish, they send out something like landorus-t and jirachi cant do his job for the rest of the battle. Lets say that with protect you avoid this problem and you have a better recover in general, and with protect you can also check choiced pokemon. I also strongly suggest you to use body slam, twave doesnt hit thundurus-t and landorus and this can be crucial for you.

    Now, since i removed stealth rocks from jirachi i think you can put them on Heatran. heatran still has an ok bulk and a lot of resistances, so you will have no problem setting them up. The most repleaceble move here is protect, since all the others are more important.
    Thats it i guess, hope this helps!

    Show Hide

    on landorus--> EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd with an adamant Nature.
    on heatran---> protect--> Stealth rock

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam

    Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Secret Sword
  4. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    That's a really good and interesting team that you got here. I really like Landorus-T double dance and you Keldeo.

    So the weaknesses will be short :

    - The Sun teams able to break through Heatran. And well, any classic Rain should be able to kill a Heatran sooner or later. If you had a way to change the weather, it wouldn't be so terrible, but since you can't, you won't escape this Venusaur/Volcarona sweep all your life.
    And, even outside of Sun, Volcarona will be really hard to deal with if it's the offensive set with HP Ground to catch your Heatran, or Giga Drain for Keldeo.

    - Landorus RP. He will be one of those pokemons you'll just hate to see on the team preview. He scores a nice number of OHKO (or almost) on your team, and you can only rely on your Keldeo to kill it back if you're healthy because you're probably killed after SR damages. Same goes for Latios against the HP Ice.
    The issue is, Landorus would not be so annoying if he could not totally set-up on Forretress.

    - Mamoswine is a minor threat, but well, soften the pressure he puts on your team would be cool. Indeed, he stops the sweep of your Landorus-T totally, moreover he can bypass the speed of Latios and hit him hard, as well as killing Jirachi and Heatran.
    You got Ferrothorn which is a good answer to Mamoswine. But LO Mamowine can deal up to 45% roughly with EQ on your Forretress. So it's still a little shaky because you are also slower than him.


    So for the changes, I got one that could interest you because it does fix many weaknesses :


    I suggest you Celebi over Forretress. The point is, Celebi has far more offensive options and tools to help his team. Moreover, you somehow also lack real answer to stuff like "big HPump under Rain". You clearly can't switch in Keldeo or Latios to sponge them, and even a SpD Jirachi will take a bunch from those attacks.
    The thing is, Celebi would make you weaker to Mamoswine right ? Well not if you outspeed the pig, you could have now a ground resistance and Heatran/Celebi means that you can resist everything in the game.
    Celebi also patches up the Landorus weakess.
    For the Sun teams, well you'll still be weak, but Celebi can really damage them. For instance you can hit pretty much everything in a Sun Team with EarthPower and HP Ice. Surprisingly, you can usually come on their spinner (Forre/Donphan or Starmie usually) and hit the switch as hard as you can. This is something that Forretress can't do. Celebi will never be dead weight.
    But, I'm not talking about a SpD set, I really want you to try a Nasty Plot set. That could perform great paired with Keldeo because Celebi can set-up on his counters.


    Now some nitpicks :

    - Like Neliel I don't like you Landorus-T spread. I like it to be also bulky to serve the role of a defensive pivot in the early game. But a defensive pivot that can sweep later ! That's the beauty of the set.
    I'll give you the set just after (but Neliel spread is really fine, and closer to the way you played Landorus-T).

    - For Jirachi, like Neliel I think you should put SR on Heatran. Over Toxic, I don't really think this move is worthy enough to take a slot on Heatran or on Jirachi (I mean, force Jirachi to carry SR). So you can now put Wish back on Jirachi. For the new free slot, try U-Turn or Protect like Neliel said. At a glance, I'd say that protect is probably better.
    Wish will help like hell all your mates because they almost all lack recovery (I won't put Recover on Celebi).


    Now, another advice :

    - Try to "speed creep". It's not good to stick to 32 speed with Jirachi. Think about it, every Jirachi will have this speed, I think that it's worthy to invest 4 or 8 extra EVs here. Same goes for Heatran. It's an advice you should keep in mind each time you build a team, speed creeping is really important.


    The SETS :

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    104 HP / 200 SpA / 204 Spe
    Modest
    - Giga Drain
    - EarthPower
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Nasty Plot

    Don't be afraid of the lack of Recover. The EVs are self made to outspeed stuff you need to outspeed and to get a good HP Number (well I think it was the point, to be honest I don't remember, but this is my very own spread so.. trust me x])


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    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    200 HP / 64 Atk / 56 Def / 188 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Sword Dance
    - Rock Polish
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Same stuff, just like Neliel but with more bulk with is always good to switch in or set-up. My personal spread again x)



    I hope I helped, and good luck with your team.


    TL;DR

    Show Hide
    Landorus-T => Bulky spread
    Jirachi => Wish
    Heatran => SR
    Forretress => Celebi
    Speed creep !
  5. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    Feb 24, 2012
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    Hey.

    This team is a pretty cool one, but there are a few problems I would like to address. Opposing Mamoswine get a few switch-in on Latios, Forretress (Gyro Ball is only a 2HKO), Jirachi, and Landorus-T if you are boosting up or have killed something and it puts you immediately at a disadvantage since it can predict the switch and Earthquake or simply Ice Shard for a OHKO. Deoxys-D is especially problematic since it can Hidden Power Fire Forretress to death or it can hold a Red Card and force your Forretress out if it is holding a Red Card. You have a pretty major problem with Sun teams since they often carry Dugtrio and Scarf Latios is very weak and has poor survivability. The problem with Sun stems from the fact that you don't have an effective Stealth Rocker that can apply pressure to common spinners. Volcarona is a major issue since Keldeo is just absolutely terrible in Sun and Heatran loses to a timely Hidden Power Ground. Special Landorus is an issue since Scarf Latios is easily weakened and it can set-up on a -2 Latios even. You also lack a good switch into Scald and Toxic. Your whole team dislikes status in general. With these threats in mind, I'm going to attempt to revamp your team to adjust to said threats. First of all, I would recommend a Sash Terrakion instead of Keldeo. Keldeo's Calm Mind set is cool, but I feel like Terrakion would help you out much more. For starters, Terrakion can actually help break the walls that Landorus-T is hindered by with Swords Dance. Keldeo and Landorus-T have many different checks meaning that they can't break them for eachother. However, if you lead with Terrakion and your opponent has a Hippowdon, you can simple Swords Dance as they presumably Stealth Rock and then Close Combat it for an easy 2HKO. The same applied to other things like Skarmory and Gliscor. Additionally, Terrakion is an offensive Stealth Rocker that can heavily damage common Sun teams and switch-ins, one thing that both Jirachi and Heatran can not do since they fall to Dugtrio. Terrakion can actually check Volcarona as well which is one thing that Keldeo nor Heatran could do. Additionally, Terrakion can set up a Swords Dance on opposing Deoxys-D if you choose to do so and heavily damage their team since you can survive any hit they throw at you due to a Focus Sash. A simple set of Close Combat / Stone Edge / Swords Dance / Stealth Rock @ Focus Sash with EV's of 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe and a Jolly Nature should fit quite nicely. With that change, I made you lose your bulky water. This also makes Mamoswine much more prominent of a threat in general. You need another water resist and something that can check Mamoswine, so I would try out a Rotom-W instead of Heatran. Rotom-W acts as a fantastic Bulky Water and gives you momentum with Volt Switch that Keldeo + Heatran could only dream of. Also, Rotom-W isn't weak to Spikes, and it maintains your momentum which I feel as though is crucial in a team like this. Take this situation for example: Skarmory switched into your Landorus-T and you can double switch into Rotom-W. You now can Volt Switch and go back into Landorus-T and threaten your opponent again while the Skarmory has to take Stealth Rock damage. Things like this give Rotom-W a cool spot on your team. Also, Rotom-W gives you a secondary check to opposing Special Landorus since it can survive a Focus Blast and relatiate with a Hydro Pump. Lastly, with a ChestoRest set, Rotom-W can effectively absorb status for your team which is currently one of its most major problems. A simple set of Hydro Pump / Rest / Volt Switch / Will-o-Wisp @ Chesto Berry with EV's of 232 HP / 68 SpA / 208 Spe and a Modest Nature should allow you to do some cool things. The on-site EV's I listed, according to the Smogon OU analysis, do the following:

    Swords Dance Scizor and Breloom are also minor problems to the team, so having a way to fend them off in Rotom-W is cool. Lastly, I would like to recommend you change Jirachi and Latios's roles. Jirachi does not need a Specially Defensive set on your team, a Scarf set can still check Lati@s considerably well and a Scarf set can U-Turn which gives the team 3 Volt-Turners to abuse Spikes and give Landorus-T an easy sweep. The main reason I recommend this change is because your team needs a secondary wall-breaker due to stall being problematic, and Latios can provide this. Additionally, Latios serves as a much better Landorus check if it does not hold a Choice Scarf. With this being said, a good Scarfed Jirachi set would be Iron Head / Ice Punch / Fire Punch (SD Scizor is problematic) / U-turn @ Choice Scarf with EV's of 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Jolly Nature. I would advise using a Life Orb Latios instead of your current Choice Scarf set, and change Trick to Roost.

    This may seem like a lot of changes, but I feel as though you maintain your team's dynamic while also giving yourself much more offensive prowess to power through threats you had previously. Good luck.
  6. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    So, some changes that I had time to test seem to be doing very well for the team. Thanks to everyone that contributed to helping me improve my team thus far!


    Went with Landorus-T's change in EVs. You're right! I didn't really miss much that I needed to outpace before. And when I did, I had a way to play around it. Thanks! As for Latios, it kept being revenged by Scizor, so the change didn't really matter much. Kinda leaning more towards the HiddenPower(Fire) set than your suggestion, although the though was surely appreciated. Also, tested out Heatran and Jirachi, as suggested, and they've satisfied me in battle, so I made the change. :)

    Will test changes right away! Thanks for the suggestion!


    Will test changes right away! Thanks for the suggestion!
  7. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
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    After some testing, I came to a conclusion. Not all the suggestions were tested as of yet, but I concluded the following results:

    Show Hide

    • Celebi(Approved)- Suggested by Remedy: Worked great, but got destroyed vs Venusaur under Sun. However, against Rain teams, it was able to set up NP against Rotom-W's VoltSwitch/swith out and sweep the remainder of the team.
    • Terrakion(Failed)- Suggested by Princess Bri: Terrakion was kind of an epic fail for this team. It opened up a huge Rain weakness for my team, as well as making my team just a bit more weak to SF Lando. Scarfed MixApe Varients also somehow became a threat due to the change.
    • Jirachi(Failed)- Suggested by Princess Bri: After some test runs, I found that my team appreciates Wish+Protect much more than a Scarfed variant Jirachi. Sorry. It was moreso walled by Heatran, not saying that my current one isn't, but at least it isn't locked into a single attack using the Wish+Protect set.
    • Rotom-W(Approved)- Rotom-W was a huge success, although it only worked best with Terrakion. I kinda missed Keldeo's offense on the team, too, so it sorta stuck to me.
    • Latios(Approved)- Suggested by Princess Bri: I loved the power it had behind it, however, Salamence and Haxorus made their appearences in a few battles and were very hard to get rid of @ +1 DD without my Scarf. I do like the idea of LO Latios, and may construct a team for it in the future. ;)

    Thanks to everyone for their suggests and help! I appreciate it!
  8. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Oh, I see.

    My thought was :

    - Classic Venusaur can't touch Heatran
    - Odd physical Venusaur with Earthquake can't touch Celebi hard
    - If Heatran gets trapped by Duggy, you set-up Landorus-T on him after since Duggy can't really do anything (well Memento at worst :|)

    But I'm glad that it did help you somehow !

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