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Data Developing an objective method for move comparison (Gyms may want to take note)

Discussion in 'ASB' started by Deck Knight, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    So here's the story. You all know how hesitant I am to add Custom competitive anything - but I have been trying to develop an objecting ASB move analysis system. So many moves have multiple facets to them though that it has been very challenging. Essentially what I want to do is develop a points system and then move from there.

    Here is what I have so far:

    Selected Sample Moves (open)
    Sample moves:

    Close Combat: The Pokemon hurls itself viciously at the opponent and strikes them powerfully multiple times while dropping its guard. Successful execution of this move decreases the user’s Defense and Special Defense by one (1) stage.

    Attack Power: 12 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Fighting | Priority: 0 | CT: Force

    Flare Blitz: The Pokémon becomes engulfed in flames, and charges at the opponent with great force, taking recoil equal to 1/3 of the damage from the attack. It will thaw a frozen opponent, and has a chance to burn the opponent.

    Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: 10% | Contact: Yes | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

    Bullet Seed: The Pokemon shoots a volley of 2-5 energized seeds at the opponent that explode on contact. It can disrupt an opponent’s move that takes a while to charge up.

    Attack Power: 3 per hit | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Grass | Priority: 0 | CT: Force

    Poison Sting: The Pokemon fires a volley of poisonous needles that inject the foe with poison. A stinger may also be used to deliver for a more pinpoint contact attack, which will always score a critical hit. If combined with Fury Attack or Pin Missile, the attack will always hit 5 times. If combined with Horn Attack, Horn Drill, Megahorn, Poison Jab, or Twineedle, the power of the combining attack is increased by one and a half (1.5x) [e.g. 4 + (8 * 1.5) = 16] and always scores a critical hit (both hits of Twineedle).

    Attack Power: 4 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: 30% | Contact: No (distance) / Yes (direct) | Typing: Poison | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

    Overheat: The Pokemon fires an extremely powerful stream of fire at its opponent. Once the attack is complete, the user has expended nearly all of their Fire energy, lowering their Special Attack by 2 stages.

    Attack Power: 14 | Accuracy: 90% | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Force

    Hail: The Pokemon calls in a hail storm that lasts for four (4) rounds. The hail causes two (2) damage per action to all Pokemon except Ice-types. Hail activates the abilities Snow Cloak and Ice Body, as well as increasing Blizzard’s accuracy to 100% and letting it have an additional 30% chance to bypass Protect and Detect.

    Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: N/A | Typing: Ice | Priority: 0 | CT: Set

    Rain Dance: The Pokemon summons rainclouds to the sky, causing it to rain in the arena. If a Pokemon uses a Water-type attack in the rain, it will go through and pick up some of the rain, increasing its Base Attack Power by three (3). If a Pokemon uses a Fire-type attack in the rain, some of it will be put out by the rain, reducing its Base Attack Power by three (3). During Rain Dance, Thunder and Hurricane have perfect accuracy and a 30% chance to bypass Protect and Detect. The rain lasts for four (4) rounds. This move will fail if the arena is indoors.

    Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: N/A | Typing: Water | Priority: 0 | CT: Set

    Stealth Rock: The Pokemon thrusts rocks at the opponent that split apart and set themselves at the corners of the field. Each time a Pokemon switches in, the rocks will become active and smash the opponent from all sides before setting down in their corners again.. Multiple layers of Stealth Rock cannot be laid.

    Attack Power: 6-4x resists Rock | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 12 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Rock | Priority: 0 | CT: Set
    9-2x resists Rock
    12-neutral to Rock
    15-2x weak to Rock
    18-4x weak to Rock


    Toxic Spikes: The Pokemon lays down a layer of spikes that inflict varying degrees of Poison status. One (1) layer of Toxic Spikes inflicts Poison, and two (2) layers of Toxic Spikes inflict bad poison. Pokemon with the Levitate trait or those that are Flying-, Steel-, and Poison-type are immune to the effects of Toxic Spikes. Pokemon that would be affected by Toxic Spikes, but are Poison-type, absorb Toxic Spikes, removing them from their side of the arena. Rapid Spin will remove all Toxic Spikes from the user's side of the field, but will cause the Pokemon using Rapid Spin to suffer the effects of Toxic Spikes.

    Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 7 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: N/A | Typing: Poison | Priority: 0 | CT: Set


    Categories:
    APECA - (Attack Power + Energy Cost) * Accuracy
    AiE - Actions in Effect
    CMB - Combination Moves Bonus
    DNE - Direct Negative Effects [These are Negative Values]
    SAO - Status and Other Effects

    Breakdown (open)
    AP + EC * Acc (APECA):
    Close Combat: 12 + 8 * 100%, 20
    Flare Blitz: 15 + 10 * 100%, 25
    Bullet Seed: 15 + 7 * 100%, 22
    Poison Sting: 4+3 * 100%, 7
    Overheat: 14 + 10 * 90%, 21.6
    Hail: 0 + 10 * 100%, 10
    Rain Dance: 0 + 10 * 100%, 10
    Stealth Rock: 12 + 12 * 100%, 24
    Toxic Spikes: 0 + 7 (14 two layers) AVG 10.5 * 100%, 10.5

    Actions in Effect (AiE):

    Close Combat: 1
    Flare Blitz: 1
    Bullet Seed: 1
    Poison Sting: 1
    Overheat: 1
    Hail: 3 x 4 (12) Singles/Doubles 2 x 4 (8) Triples+
    Rain Dance: 3 x 4 (12) Singles/Doubles 2 x 4 (8) Triples+
    Stealth Rock: 0 (activates on switches or new Pokemon only)
    Toxic Spikes: 0 (activates on switches or new Pokemon only)

    Combinant Moves Bonus(CMB):

    Close Combat: 0
    Flare Blitz: 0
    Bullet Seed: 0
    Poison Sting: 7 * 1.5 = 10.5
    Overheat: 0
    Hail: 0
    Rain Dance: 0
    Stealth Rock: 0
    Toxic Spikes: 0

    Direct Negative Effects (DNE):
    Close Combat: -2 Stats, (Receives 8.75 more damage for duration of drop regardless of foe’s attack)
    Flare Blitz: 1/3rd recoil (Subtract Base Power/3, [15/3 = 5])
    Bullet Seed: None
    Poison Sting: None
    Overheat: -2 Stats (Does 19.25 less special damage for the duration of drop, can avoid with physical attacks [half value])
    Hail: Halvess healing power of Synthesis/Morning Sun/Moonlight [negligible negative]
    Rain Dance: -3 BAP on Fire attacks. (Avoided if Fire attacks are not used [negligible negative]), Solarbeam -6 BAP [negligible negative]), Halvess healing power of Synthesis/Morning Sun/Moonlight [negligible negative].
    Stealth Rock: None
    Toxic Spikes: None

    Status Affliction + Other Effects (SAOE):

    Close Combat: None
    Flare Blitz: Burn (10%), DPR = 6 *.1 = 0.6
    Bullet Seed: None
    Poison Sting: Poison (30%), DPR = 6 *.3 = 1.8
    Overheat: None
    Hail: DPR = 6, Blizzard, +3.6 Net Blizzard BAP (Blizzard to 100% acc).
    Rain Dance: Water BAP Boost Per Round = 9, +3.6 Net Thunder and Hurricane BAP, Double Speed (>+1 Boost, <+2 Boost, Value = 2).
    Stealth Rock: None
    Toxic Spikes: Poison (100%) DPR = 6, Toxic (100%) DPR: 9 (average over 5 rounds) AVG 7.5


    Sum:
    Sum (open)
    APEC + AiE + CMB + DNE + SAO
    Close Combat: 20 + 1 + 0 – 8.75 + 0 = 12.25

    Flare Blitz: 15 + 10 + 0 – 5 + 0.6 = 20.6

    Bullet Seed: 22 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 23

    Poison Sting: 7 + 1 + 10.5 + 0 + 1.8 = 20.3

    Overheat: 21.6 + 1 + 0 – 9.625 + 0 = 11.975

    Hail: 10 + 12 +0 + 0 + 9.6 = 31.6

    Rain Dance: 10 + 12 + 0 + 0 + 18.2 = 40.2

    Stealth Rock: 12 + 12 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 24

    Toxic Spikes: 0 + 10.5 + 0 + 0 + 7.5 = 19


    What my current metrics are doing is giving massive values to weather and diminished values to attacks with clear negative effects, while moves with no drawbacks seem to score in the middle. A decent move seems to hover around 20-25 points in value, while weather moves go off the charts into the 30s and 40s [Looking at you Rain Dance].

    I don't know if this is a good system, but it's what I have developed so far. I do want to see if this can be nailed down into something, since I think it will have a lot of value not only for game balance but also to make a path for custom moves if we decide to go that route. My hesitations there are based on the fact I want to avoid power creep, and the only way to do that is to have an objective system governing the parameters of moves.
  2. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,065
    The reason why direct bad effect moves look so bad is because it assumes all moves are attacks. If that was the case, Overheat, Close Combat, and their kin, (even V-create), would be bad. But when only about 2/3 moves are atks, the chart has to reflect that.
    Same with rain, it assumes you use only water atks and hurricane/thunder. That would also be change.

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