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Dewgong [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Komodo, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
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    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/dewgong

    [Overview]

    <p>Dewgong hasn't changed much since Gen 4; its movepool has remained the same, and it's still a pretty average Pokemon. Hydration is the only reason to use Dewgong, this, and Dewgong's decent HP and defenses. With Hydration, Dewgong becomes a decent tank and status absorber in the rain, which warrants it a place on your team. Unfortunately, Dewgong was cursed with a part Ice typing, which means it is weak to Stealth Rock, while common Rock-, Grass-, Electric- and Fighting-type moves will seriously maim it. Dewgong isn't very impressive, and you shouldn't be in a rush to use it, but it's pretty unique in terms of its ability and movepool.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam / Toxic
    move 4: Rest
    item: Damp Rock / Leftovers
    ability: Hydration
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 162 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydration is the only reason to use Dewgong. With Rest and the rain set up, Dewgong becomes difficult to KO. Its defenses are high enough to take a hit or two, and an instant, single-turn recovery move allows it to tank for a long time. Not only that, but Hydration also turns Dewgong into a pseudo-status absorber for your team. Surf is used for STAB, while it gains a boost from the rain, and Ice Beam is used for secondary STAB to hit Grass-types. Toxic can be used in the third slot to cripple bulkier Pokemon such as Poliwrath, while Hidden Power Electric may be considered to hit other Water-types. Finally, Damp Rock provides Dewgong with 8 turns of rain, while Leftovers give Dewgong that little bit more in terms of recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs emphasize on Dewgong's decent bulk. Maximum HP ensures Dewgong can take as many hits as possible before going down, while the Special Attack EVs give its attacks a boost. 96 Speed EVs allow Dewgong to outrun max Speed Aggron, though you can run 144 to outspeed max Speed Torterra. Encore is another option over either of its attacking moves, it allows Dewgong to cripple Pokemon who attempt to set up, and gives its teammates an easier switch-in.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who can switch into Dewgong's weaknesses are good partners. Claydol is an excellent choice as it can switch into Rock-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks, while providing Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin support for its teammates. Lilligant is another great choice as it can switch into Grass- and Electric-type moves, while using its STAB Grass-type moves to KO opposing Water-types. Finally, Electivire should be considered as it can gain a Speed boost from switching into Electric-type attacks. Sandslash is another Pokemon who can support Dewgong with Rapid Spin, while it can also switch into Rock- and Electric-type moves aimed at it. Toxic Spikes are an option to take advantage of Dewgong's stalling ability. Drapion and Scolipede can set them up, while Dusknoir and Rotom can be used to keep them on the field.</p>

    <p>As rain weaken's Fire-type moves, Pokemon who are weak to them can take advantage of it. For example, Cryogonal can use the rain to cover its Fire-type weakness, while using Rapid Spin to support Dewgong. Electric-types who can abuse 100% accurate Thunder are great choices too; Electrode, Magneton, and Manectric are all good choices thanks to their sky-high Special Atttack stats. Swift Swim abusers such as Omastar and Kabutops fare well when the rain is set up, and they can cause extreme pain to the opposing team after a Swords Dance or Shell Smash boost. Finally, Ludicolo can abuse Rain Dish to stall the opponent, and its STAB Grass-type moves can break through opposing Water-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dewgong's movepool isn't great, but there are a few moves it can utilize to some level of success. Perish Song can be used to break stall and force stat boosters to switch, and it also causes plenty of residual damage from opponents switcing into entry hazards. Ice Body is available from Dream World, though using it would defeat the object of using Dewgong, and makes it outclassed by Walrein in every way. A physical set of Waterfall, Aqua Jet, Avalance, and Ice Shard may be used instead of the moves listed, just adjust the EVs accordingly. A Choice Specs set can be used with Surf, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Electric / Ground, and Signal Beam, but Dewgong's attacking stats aren't great, and there are plenty of better sweepers in the tier. Stockpile can raise Dewgong's defenses and allow it to take hits easier, but Walrein is usually a lot better at this. Finally, Blizzard can be used for STAB, and it works well with hail support.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Clefable is probably the biggest counter to any of Dewgong's special sets. Its great defensive stats, Magic Guard, access to Encore and Toxic, and reliable recovery all make it very difficult to break through. Dewgong can barely scratch Cofagrigus thanks to its massive Special Defense, and if rain isn't up, Cofagrigus can stall it to death with Toxic. Poliwrath can switch into any of Dewgong's attacks and hit Dewgong with STAB Focus Punch, while Water Absorb grants it an immunity to Dewgong's STAB, rain-boosted Surf. Ludicolo can switch into Dewgong's STAB Water-type moves with little trouble, it's only hit neutrally by Ice Beam, and it's STAB Grass-type moves and Leech Seed will spell doom for Dewgong. That's not all, Ludicolo can also take advantage of Dewgong's rain with its abilities, Swift Swim and Rain Dance. Thick Fat Hariyama takes reduced damage from Ice Beam, while its STAB Fighting-type moves will KO Dewgong in no time. Most Water-types can take on Dewgong as the resist its STAB, just watch out for Toxic and the occasional Hidden Power. Generally, anything with good defensive stats can take on Dewgong, just deal with it quickly before it can poison you or hit you with boosted Surf. Finally, Taunt users really cripple Dewgong's strategy, while weather changer Pokemon can put an end to its torrential downpour.</p>
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
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    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  3. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    I would move 48 more EVs into Speed (letting it hit 212 Speed) in order to outrun max Speed Torterra. Or at least mention it in AC as a slightly faster alternative spread.

    Looks good, as always, Komodo!

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  4. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
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    I'll make a mention in AC, Torterra isn't extremely common. Thanks :)
  5. wilson46

    wilson46
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    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  6. breh

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    I'm not an RU player so excuse me if I am grossly wrong, but isn't this inferior to Lapras? As far as I can gather, the only difference between the two is encore, which is only in AC.
  7. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
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    [Overview]

    <p>Dewgong hasn't changed much since Gen 4; its movepool has remained the same, and it's still a pretty average Pokemon. Hydration is the only reason to use Dewgong, and the sea lion can function pretty well with this ability when combined with its this, (comma) and Dewgong's decent HP and defenses. With Hydration, Dewgong becomes a decent tank and status absorber in the rain, which warrants it a place on your team. Unfortunately, Dewgong was cursed with a part Ice typing, which means it is weak to Stealth Rock, not to mention while common Rock-, Grass-, Electric- and Fighting-type moves will seriously maim it. Dewgong isn't very impressive, and you shouldn't be in a rush to use it, but it's pretty unique in terms of its ability and movepool.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam / Toxic
    move 4: Rest
    item: Damp Rock / Leftovers
    ability: Hydration
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 162 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydration is the only reason to use Dewgong. With Rest and the rain set up, Dewgong becomes difficult to KO. Its defenses are high enough to take a hit or two, and an instant, single-turn recovery move allows it to tank hits for a long time. Not only that, but Hydration also turns Dewgong into a pseudo-status absorber for your team. Surf is used for STAB, and while it gains a boost from the rain; (semicolon) , (comma) and Ice Beam is used for a secondary STAB move to hit Grass-types. Toxic can be used in the third slot to cripple bulkier Pokemon such as Poliwrath, while Hidden Power Electric may be considered to hit other Water-types. Finally, Damp Rock provides Dewgong with 8 turns of rain, whereas while Leftovers can be used to give Dewgong that little bit more in terms of recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs emphasize on Dewgong's decent bulk. Maximum HP ensures Dewgong can take as many hits as possible before going down, while the Special Attack EVs give its attacks a boost. 96 Speed EVs allow Dewgong to outrun max Speed Aggron, though you can run 144 to outspeed max Speed Torterra. Encore is another option over either of its attacking moves, as it allows Dewgong to cripple Pokemon who attempt to set up, and gives its teammates an easier time switching in switch-in.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who can switch into Dewgong's weaknesses are good partners. Claydol is an excellent choice, (comma) as it can switch into Rock-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks, (comma) while being able to provide providing Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin support for its teammates. Lilligant is another great choice, (comma) as it can switch into Grass- and Electric-type moves, (comma) while using being able to use its STAB Grass-type moves to KO opposing Water-types. Finally, Electivire should be considered, (comma) as it can gain a Speed boost from switching into Electric-type attacks. Sandslash is another Pokemon who can support Dewgong with Rapid Spin, and while it can also switch into Rock- and Electric-type moves aimed at it. Toxic Spikes are an option to take advantage of Dewgong's stalling ability. Drapion and Scolipede can set them up, while Dusknoir and Rotom can be used to keep them on the field.</p>

    <p>As rain weaken'(apostrophe)s Fire-type moves, Pokemon who are weak to them can take advantage of the weather condition it. For example, Cryogonal can use the rain to cover its Fire-type weakness, while using being able to use Rapid Spin to support Dewgong. Electric-types who can abuse 100% accurate Thunder are great choices too; Electrode, Magneton, and Manectric are all good choices thanks to their sky-high Special Atttack stats. Swift Swim abusers such as Omastar and Kabutops fare well when the rain is set up, and they can cause extreme pain to the opposing team after a Swords Dance or Shell Smash boost, (comma) respectively. Finally, Ludicolo can abuse Rain Dish to stall the opponent, and its STAB Grass-type moves can break through opposing Water-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dewgong's movepool isn't great, but there are a few moves it can utilize to some level of success. Perish Song can be used to break stall and force stat boosters to switch, and it also causes plenty of residual damage from for opponents switching into entry hazards. Ice Body is available from the Dream World, though using it would defeat the objective of using Dewgong, and makes it outclassed by Walrein in every way. Put this in the Dream World section A physical set of Waterfall, Aqua Jet, Avalanche, and Ice Shard may be used instead of the moves listed, just adjust the EVs accordingly. A Choice Specs set can be used with Surf, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Electric / Ground, and Signal Beam, but Dewgong's attacking stats aren't great, and there are plenty of better sweepers in the tier. Stockpile can raise Dewgong's defenses and allow it to take hits easier, but Walrein is usually a lot better at this. Finally, Blizzard can be used for STAB, and it works well with hail support.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Clefable is probably the biggest counter to any of Dewgong's special sets. Its great defensive stats, Magic Guard, access to Encore and Toxic, and reliable recovery all make it very difficult to break through. Dewgong can barely scratch Cofagrigus thanks to its massive Special Defense, and if rain isn't up, Cofagrigus can stall it to death with Toxic. Poliwrath can switch into any of Dewgong's attacks and hit Dewgong with STAB Focus Punch, while as Water Absorb grants it an immunity to Dewgong's STAB, rain-boosted Surf. Ludicolo can switch into Dewgong's STAB Water-type moves with little trouble, it's only being hit neutrally by Ice Beam, and while it's STAB Grass-type moves and Leech Seed will spell doom for Dewgong. That's not all, Ludicolo can also take advantage of Dewgong's rain with its abilities: (colon) , (comma) Swift Swim and Rain Dance. Thick Fat Hariyama takes reduced damage from Ice Beam, while and its STAB Fighting-type moves will KO Dewgong in no time. Most Water-types can take on Dewgong as they resist its STAB, just but have to watch out for Toxic and the occasional Hidden Power. Generally, anything with good defensive stats can take on Dewgong, just deal with it quickly before it can poison you or hit you with boosted Surf. Finally, Taunt users really cripple Dewgong's strategy, while weather changer Pokemon can put an end to its torrential downpour.</p>

    [Dream World]
    Ice Body is available from the Dream World, though using it would defeat the objective of using Dewgong, and makes it outclassed by Walrein in every way.


    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/2
  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
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    Dewgong is also slightly faster than Lapras, which lets it outspeed Torterra without having to sacrifice as much investment in Special Attack or HP as Lapras would have to.

    Dewgong is without a doubt harshly outclassed by Lapras, but it's still good enough to warrant an analysis.

    Encore probably could get a slash in the third slot though now that you mention it. I rarely used Ice Beam when I had rain falling, and Encore would have more utility than Toxic overall.
  9. Honko

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    Sorry Oglemi but this is a pretty terrible argument. Lapras has higher SpA and HP to begin with. In fact, Lapras with a 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid spread has higher HP, SpA, and Speed than this Dewgong, and equal Def and SpD.

    The fact that Dewgong is completely outclassed by Lapras and Phione (who has better typing, SpA/Spe, and U-turn), both of which are never seen in RU, should be a hint that it's not worth an analysis. This set is decent at sitting around and being a dick to Hail teams, but that's about it. It's not a good supporter and it's not a good attacker, and for a staller it sure gets OHKOed by a lot of RU's most common threats. I'm not sure why it was approved, but I think it sets a pretty bad precedent for giving analyses to terrible Pokemon in RU. We'll have NU analyses eventually, so there's no reason to be approving sets for RU that nobody would ever use. There's a different between niche and useless, and I don't think Dewgong has a niche.

    No offense meant to you Komodo, because I'm sure your write-up is excellent as always, but I would prefer if this did not go on-site.
  10. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Ok, it's my fault that I didn't notice Dewgong was waiting for approval because I should have posted this earlier.

    I've discussed it with Honko and we both agree Dewgong shouldn't have an analysis. It's a Pokemon with bad stats and bad defensive typing and it doesn't have anything unique but its ability. It isn't strong enough to go offensive (like Palpitoed or Drifblim) or bulky enough to be a full supporter (like Uxie). The fact that it is outclassed by an already bad Pokemon (Lapras) only adds insult to injury. Also, as far as I know, NU will be the tier where every Poke has to have an analysis, not RU, so I'd rather not have Dewgong on-site.

    Again, it's my fault that I didn't see it earlier but I also can't see why it was approved by the other QC members.
  11. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Seconded, I follow the QC conversations as well and weigh input and Dewgong really has nothing of value to add as an analysis.
  12. Komodo

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    Alright, this will be moved to locked and outdated analyses until NU is sorted out. I only chose to write an analysis because Dewgong was listed on the reservation thread, and thought it was usable.

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