Dewgong (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

#1
[Overview]

<p>Dewgong is overall a poor Pokemon due to its middling stats, which renders it unable to perform a given role effectively. A Water / Ice typing gives it many common weaknesses and its lack of recovery makes it unable to wall anything for extended periods of time. Additionally, Dewgong faces competition with Walrein and Lapras, as the former has Thick Fat and the latter has Perish Song. Dewgong's niche over those two Water / Ice type Pokemon is the fact that it has access to both. Being outclassed by Walrein by virtue of bulk and stalling capabilities, and having poor offensive stats overall, Dewgong struggles to find a spot on a good team.</p>

[SET]
name: Dewgonggonggong
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Perish Song is Dewgong's only saving grace, as it lets Dewgong defeat common Pokemon that are not affected by Toxic, such as Duosion and Heal Bell Musharna. Toxic is an essential move which deals damage to the opponent every turn. Thick Fat grants Dewgong very useful type resistances to Fire and Ice, allowing it to take hits from powerful Fire-type attacks such as a Fire Blast from Choice Specs Charizard. However, Dewgong is hampered by its lack of reliable recovery, severely dampening its viability in the tier. Thankfully, Protect lets Dewgong gain extra Leftovers recovery, somewhat compensating for the lack of reliable recovery. It is also good for scouting and stalling out the opponent with Toxic. Ice Beam and Surf are obvious attacking moves that damage the opponent, with both getting a STAB boost. Ice Beam is is chosen as the main offensive move as it is able to hit most Poison-types hard, especially Grass / Poison Pokemon. Surf provides helpful coverage against Steel-types who are also immune to Toxic.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Encore is a good move that can be used&mdash;it sets Dewgong apart from the rest&mdash;being able to lock the opponent into a move and provide free switch-in opportunities for teammates. Toxic Spikes support is recommended to start the stalling immediately when the opponent switches in, as opposed to having Dewgong leave itself vulnerable that turn when using Toxic. Roselia and Garbodor are great Toxic Spikes users that support Dewgong, as they both resist the Grass-type attacks that Dewgong dislikes and can also force those Grass-types out.</p>

<p>Torterra is a great partner for Dewgong as it resists Rock-type moves, has access to Stealth Rock, can easily prevent Seismitoad or Golem from setting up Stealth Rock by using Bullet Seed, and is immune to Electric-type moves, thus having wonderful synergy with Dewgong. Meanwhile, Dewgong can easily handle the Ice-type attacks aimed at Torterra. Sawk is also a good partner for Dewgong as it can easily prevent Stealth Rock with Mold Breaker and beat Rock-type Pokemon for Dewgong. Rapid Spin support is vital for Dewgong to function. Torkoal is the best spinner to pair with Dewgong as it resists Grass-type moves, can spin away entry hazards and set up its own, and can beat Steel-types for Dewgong as well.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Dewgong has access to great priority moves in Fake Out, Aqua Jet, and Ice Shard. However, their damage output is low and they rely on Dewgong's Attack stat, making them rather useless. Blizzard can be used for more power, but it is inaccurate and Dewgong is outclassed by Walrein as a user of it. Hydration + Rest seems like a good idea, but Dewgong is easily forced out due to its poor defensive typing and thus will rarely stay in to utilize the rain turns.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Entry hazards can easily wear down Dewgong due to its weakness to Stealth Rock and lack of reliable recovery. Furthermore, Dewgong is easily forced out, ensuring that it will take plenty of damage from entry hazards on each switch-in. Faster Grass-types such as Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, Victreebel, and Shiftry can easily OHKO Dewgong if they can switch in safely. Most Electric- and Fighting-types with decent offensive presence can easily OHKO Dewgong as well; some of these Pokemon include Electabuzz, Sawk, Ampharos, Gurdurr, and more. Additionally, Steel-types such as Metang can wall Dewgong to high heavens as they are immune to Toxic and take nothing from Dewgong's weak Surf. Finally, Taunt users, particularly Mandibuzz and Misdreavus, can temporarily halt Dewgong's usage of support moves and also cripple it with either Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, respectively.</p>
 
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scorpdestroyer

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#2
I really don't see the point of Whirlpool and Damp Rock. Whirlpool is only going to do a minuscule amount of damage that is outdone by Toxic, and most of the time its going to trap something that already counters Dewgong, and it shouldn't be used over another move that actually does damage. Damp Rock shouldn't be on the set and only AC at best imo, because realistically that is only useful on full rain teams because an extra three turns of Hydration isn't gonna be worth the passive recovery from Leftovers. Also, I'd put Perish Song in AC because Encore is p much the only thing that separates it from Lapras which has better bulk and offensive stats, and can do the same thing as Dewgong. Also, I think the biggest draw to outspeeding Gorebyss is due to the massive number of other Pokemon around that benchmark eg. Misdreavus, Golbat, Skunk, because outspeeding Gorebyss isn't much of a big deal if you can't hit it at all

The main reason to not use Ice Body is because Hail is really bad, so emphasize that

I'm not QC so those are my two cents
 
#3
Whirlpool is like Arena Trap; it will prevent your opponent from switching, and it also deals the amount of damage on the opponent as Lefties would recover, so that's great.

Damp rock's going into AC

dewgong is crappy
 

Lolk

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#4
Whirlpool is not great, no Pokemon that cannot beat Dewgong would stay in anyway. And even further, no Pokemon with 144 SpA evs would ever want it as it's only damaging move. Its gimmicky and could only beat stally mons, which rain can plow through anyway.
 

FLCL

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#5
honestly hydration + rest is not even that good since dewgong is easily forced out and will rarely stay in to abuse the rain turns. not to mention it's weak as fuck and won't be doing significant damage with surf even if it has investment. i think a specially defensive set is probably the best set for dewgong even though walrein pretty much does it better. perish song is its only saving grace as it allows dewgong to beat pokemon such as duosion and heal bell musharna.


Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Perish Song
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Surf / Protect

also change the set name to dewgonggonggong
 

soulgazer

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#7
[Overview]
  • Dewgong actually has competition with Walrein and Lapras, where the former has Thick Fat and the later has Perish Song too. Dewgong's niche over those two Water/Ice Pokemon is the fact that it has access to the two.
  • Ice-type are actually quite good offensively (ex: Jynx), but Dewgong lacks the offensive stats to use it to its full potential. With that in mind I wouldn't say Ice-typing isn't welcome, but that it leaves Dewgong with some common weakness.
  • Encore and Perish Song aren't signature moves to Dewgong, he just has access to them.
[SET COMMENTS]
Remove all these:
  • Decent bulk makes it able to take a hit or two
  • A Specially Defensive set is the best set for Dewgong even though Walrein probably does it better
  • Maximum Health investment is put to further increase Dewgong's bulk.
  • Maximum Special Defense investment is to boost Dewgong's already good special bulk further.
Also mention Toxic, and add to the Protect mention that it allow Dewgong to recover health to while scooting.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Please change this:
Toxic Spikes support is recommended to start the stalling immediately when the opponent switches in, as opposed to Dewgong having to waste a turn to Toxic it. The best Toxic Spiker in the tier is Scolipede and it helps take the Grass-type attacks that Dewgong dislikes.
Dewgong using Toxic is never a waster of a turn lol. Agree with Scolipede (you could maybe add Roselia too?) as a good partner though since they both resist Grass-type moves and can easily force them out.

Also remove this:
Great Partners include those who are weak to Ice, as Dewgong has a 8x Ice resist. Some Pokemon that fit this criteria are Torterra, Golurk, Braviary, and more.
Rapid Spin support is absolutely necessary for Dewgong to function. Torkoal and Wartortle are good Spinners that also have decent synergy with Dewgong(fear the turtles!).
Because a Pokemon being weak to Ice-type move doesn't means it will be a great partner for Dewgong. Torterra can actually be a good partner though. Torterra resists Rock-type moves, has access to Stealth Rock, can easily prevent Golem or Seismitoad from setting up Stealth Rock with Bullet Seed, and is also immune to Electric-type moves. Also, most Rapid Spinner in the tier are either a Water-type, or are weak to Rock-type moves and Stealth Rock. With that in mind, Sawk can also be a good partner as it can easily prevent Stealth Rock with Mold Breaker and also can beat Rock-type Pokemon for Dewgong. There's actually one Rapid Spin user worth mentionning, and it would be Torkoal as it resists Grass-type mvoes for Dewgong, can spin away entry hazards and set up its own, and can beat Steel-type for Dewgong too.

[Other Options]

Delete these:
Ice Body can be used but is outclassed by Walrein.
Choice Specs set can be used but Dewgong's poor attacking stats make it less powerful than expected
Blizzard can be used on a Hail team but once again outclassed by Walrein.
There's no Snow Warning Pokemon in the tier, and Choice Specs really looks awful. You should add its access to Fake Out, Aqua Jet, and Ice Shard. It can also use physical move to beat Jynx more easily, like Return, but it doesn't help with anything else and is hard to fit on the set.

[Checks and Counters]
Change :
Setting up Stealth Rock is the first step to reduce Dewgong's walling potential.
to:
Setting up entry hazards can easily wear down Dewgong due to its weakness to Stealth Rock and its lack of reliable recovery.
I wouldn't mention Taunt, since nothing really want to take a Ice Beam (Serperior, Mandibuzz..)
EDIT: 0 SpA Dewgong Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 162-192 (38.29 - 45.39%)
You can actually mention Misdreavus and Mandibuzz can Taunt Dewgong and cripple it with either Will-O-Wisp or Toxic.

Grass-types do not fear Surf and can easily retaliate with super effective attacks.
They fear Ice Beam though, so I would only mention that faster Grass-type such as Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, Victreebel, and Shiftry caan easily OHKO Dewgong if they can switch in safely.

Add Steel-types such as Metang: They are immune to Toxic and take nothing from Dewgong's Surf as it is actually quite weak.
Also add some Electric- and Fighting-types as they can easily OHKO Dewgong.

Implement this Metal Sonic and I will check later!
 
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soulgazer

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#9
Metal Sonic you might need to read my post again: The bulletpoint I made for the overview were comments on what you actually had :x. Also, in AC, Rapid Spinner aren'T absolutely needed, because right now you make it seem you NEED Torkoal or else Dewgong is useless.

Fix the OP and I'll comeback later to check!
 
#11
[Overview]
  • Ice-types are actually quite good offensively, for example the infamous Jynx, but Dewgong lacks the offensive stats to use it to its full potential. Hence, the Ice-typing on Dewgong isn't welcome and leaves it with a few common weaknesses.
  • Dewgong has access to Encore, which sets it apart from the rest..
  • Delete these points. The first one is just comparing Dewgong to Jynx, which doesn't make sense since the two serve completely different roles, and the second one is irrelevant because Encore isn't on the main set. (Besides, Walrein gets Encore too anyway :p) Just say how its typing leaves it many common weaknesses and its lack of recovery makes it unable to wall anything for extended periods of time.
[SET]
  • Slash Protect over Surf. The extra Lefties recovery + ability is a lot better considering how weak Dewgong is, and Surf honestly doesn't really cover much that Ice Beam can't already.
[SET COMMENTS]
  • I feel like you should mention Thick Fat somewhere, even though Walrein has it it's a still really cool trait for Dewgong as it allows it to switch into SPECS CHARIZARD FIRE BLAST which is pretty awesome for it.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Add Garbodor to the list of T-Spikes setters just cuz.
Implement this Metal Sonic , and I'll check again later.
 

Arkian

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#16
GP Check Metal Sonic
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[Overview]
(space)
<p>Dewgong is overall a poor Pokemon due to its middling stats, rendering it unable to perform a given role effectively. TheA Water(space)/(space)Ice-(remove hyphen)typing leagives it many common weaknesses and its lack of recovery makes it unable to wall anything for extended periods of time. Additionally, Dewgong faces competition with Walrein and Lapras, whereas the former has Thick Fat and the latter has Perish Song. Dewgong's niche over those two Water(space)/(space)Ice type Pokemon is the fact that it has access to the two. Being outclassed by Walrein in bulk and in stalling, and having poor offensive stats overall, Dewgong struggles to find a spot on a good team.</p>

[SET]
name: dewgonggonggong
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
(space)
<p>Perish Song is Dewgong's only saving grace;,(comma) permitting it to defeat common Pokemon that are do not fall to Toxic, such as Duosion and Heal Bell Musharna. Toxic is an essential move to deal damage to the opponent every turn, and adds up to the damage that Dewgong deals per turn. Thick Fat grants Dewgong very useful type resistances to Fire and Ice, allowing it to survive powerful Fire-type attacks, even a Specs Charizard Fire Blast from Choice Specs Charizard. However, Dewgong is hampered by its lack of access to reliable recovery, severely dampening its viability in the tier. Thankfully, Protect will be good for scouting and stalling out the opponent with Toxic, also enabling Dewgong to recover the health that it needs via Leftovers. Ice Beam and Surf are the obvious attacking moves to damage the opponent, with both getting a STAB boost. Ice Beam is preferred due to its superior offensive coverage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
(space)
<p>Maximum EVs are put into Special Defense in order to maximise special bulk, while 248 HP EVs are given to reduce damage taken from Stealth Rock. (This sentence doesn't tell the user anything specific) Encore is a good move that can be used&mdash;it sets Dewgong apart from the rest&mdash;(remove space) being able to lock the opponent into a move and provide free switch-in opportunities for teammates. Toxic Spikes support is recommended to start the stalling immediately when the opponent switches in, as opposed to Dewgong having leave itself vulnerable that turn when using Toxic. Scolipede, Roselia,(AC) and Garbodor are great Toxic Spikes users to support Dewgong, as they both resist the Grass-type attacks that Dewgong dislikes and can also force those Grass-types out.</p>

<p>Torterra is a great partner for Dewgong as it resists Rock-type moves, has access to Stealth Rock, can easily prevent Seismitoad or Golem from setting up Stealth Rock with Bullet Seed, and is also immune to Electric-type moves, thus having wonderful synergy with Dewgong. Meanwhile, Dewgong can easily handle the Ice-type attacks aimed at Torterra. Sawk is also a good partner for Dewgong as it can easily prevent Stealth Rock with Mold Breaker and also can beat Rock-type Pokemon for Dewgong.</p>

<p>Rapid Spin support is vital for Dewgong to function. Torkoal is the best option to pair with Dewgong as it resists Grass-type moves for Dewgong, can spin away entry hazards and set up its own, and can beat Steel-types for Dewgong tooas well.</p> Please combine the three paragraphs into one; each paragraph's content isn't big enough to warrant a separate paragraph.

[Other Options]
(space)
<p>Dewgong has access to great priority moves in Fake Out, Aqua Jet,(AC) and Ice Shard. However, their damage output is low and they rely on Dewgong's Attack stat, making it hard to fit onto the set. Physical moves like Return can sometimes be used to beat Jynx more easily, but once again doesn't help with anything else and isare difficult to integrate. Blizzard can be used for more power, but it is inaccurate and outclassed by Walrein in this aspect. Hydration + Rest is a good idea, but Dewgong is easily forced out due to its poor defensive typing and thus will rarely stay in to abusutilize the Rrain turns.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
(space)
<p>Setting up entry hazards can easily wear down Dewgong due to its weakness to Stealth Rock and its lack of reliable recovery. Due to Furthe ease of which it isrmore, Dewgong is easily forced out, this will ensureensuring that Dewgongit will not remain alive for long if hazards are up. Faster Grass-types such as Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, Victreebel, and Shiftry can easily OHKO Dewgong if they can switch in safely; while m.(period) Most Electric- and Fighting-types with decent offensive presence can easily OHKO Dewgong, as well;(semi) some Pokemon includinge Electabuzz, Sawk, Ampharos, Gurdurr,(AC) and more. Additionally, Steel-types,(RC) such as Metang,(RC) can wall Dewgong to high heavens as they are immune to Toxic and take nothing from Dewgong's weak Surf. Finally, Taunt users, particularly Mandibuzz and Misdreavus, can temporarily halt Dewgong's usage of support moves and also cripple Dewgongit with either Will-O-Wisp or Toxic.</p>


Not many Pokegrammar errors this time around; great job Metal Sonic ^.^

GP Approved 1/2
 
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#17
Additions
Subtractions
Comments

amcheck
[Overview]
<p>Dewgong is overall a poor Pokemon due to its middling stats,rendering which render it unable to perform a given role effectively. A Water / Ice typing gives it many common weaknesses and its lack of recovery makes it unable to wall anything for extended periods of time. Additionally, Dewgong faces competition with Walrein and Lapras, as the former has Thick Fat and the latter has Perish Song. Dewgong's niche over those two Water / Ice type Pokemon is the fact that it has access to the two both. Being outclassed by Walrein in bulk and stalling by virtue of bulk and stalling capabilities, and having poor offensive stats overall, Dewgong struggles to find a spot on a good team.</p>

[SET]
name:
d Dewgonggonggong(here, all names are supposed to be capitalized)
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Protect / Surf
item: Leftovers
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Perish Song is Dewgong's only saving grace, permitting it to as it lets Dewgong defeat common Pokemon that do not fall to are not affected by Toxic, such as Duosion and Heal Bell Musharna. Toxic is an essential move to deal which deals damage to the opponent every turn, and adds up to the damage that Dewgong deals per turn(you said the same thing in the first part of the sentence -_-). Thick Fat grants Dewgong very useful type resistances to Fire and Ice, allowing it to survive take hits from powerful Fire-type attacks, even such as a Fire Blast from Choice Specs Charizard. However, Dewgong is hampered by its lack of reliable recovery, severely dampening its viability in the tier. Thankfully, Protect will be good lets Dewgong gain extra Leftovers recovery, somewhat compensating for the lack of reliable recovery. It is also good for scouting and stalling out the opponent with Toxic, also enabling Dewgong to recover the health that it needs via Leftovers. Ice Beam and Surf are obvious attacking moves to that damage the opponent, with both getting a STAB boost. Ice Beam is preferred due to its superior offensive coverage(Ice Beam isn't slashed with Protect ?_?).</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Encore is a good move that can be used&mdash;it sets Dewgong apart from the rest&mdash;being able to lock the opponent into a move and provide free switch-in opportunities for teammates. Toxic Spikes support is recommended to start the stalling immediately when the opponent switches in, as opposed to Dewgong having leave itself vulnerable that turn when using Toxic. Scolipede, Roselia, and Garbodor are great Toxic Spikes users to that support Dewgong, as they both resist the Grass-type attacks that Dewgong dislikes and can also force those Grass-types out.</p>

<p>Torterra is a great partner for Dewgong as it resists Rock-type moves, has access to Stealth Rock, can easily prevent Seismitoad or Golem from setting up Stealth Rock with by using Bullet Seed, and is immune to Electric-type moves, thus having wonderful synergy with Dewgong. Meanwhile, Dewgong can easily handle the Ice-type attacks aimed at Torterra. Sawk is also a good partner for Dewgong as it can easily prevent Stealth Rock with Mold Breaker and beat Rock-type Pokemon for Dewgong. Rapid Spin support is vital for Dewgong to function. Torkoal is the best option spinner to pair with Dewgong as it resists Grass-type moves, can spin away entry hazards and set up its own, and can beat Steel-types for Dewgong as well.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Dewgong has access to great priority moves in Fake Out, Aqua Jet, and Ice Shard. However, their damage output is low and they rely on Dewgong's Attack stat, making it hard to fit onto the set them rather useless(the sentence makes more sense this way imo). Physical moves like such as Return can sometimes be used to beat Jynx more easily, but don't help with anything else and are difficult to integrate fit onto the set. Blizzard can be used for more power, but it is inaccurate and outclassed by Walrein in this aspect Dewgong is outclassed by Walrein as a user of it. Hydration + Rest is seems like a good idea, but Dewgong is easily forced out due to its poor defensive typing and thus will rarely stay in to utilise utilize the rain turns.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Setting up e Entry hazards can easily wear down Dewgong due to its weakness to Stealth Rock and lack of reliable recovery. Furthermore, Dewgong is easily forced out, ensuring meaning that it will not remain alive for long if hazards are up. Faster Grass-types such as Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, Victreebel, and Shiftry can easily OHKO Dewgong if they can switch in safely. Most Electric- and Fighting-types with decent offensive presence can easily OHKO Dewgong as well; some of these Pokemon include Electabuzz, Sawk, Ampharos, Gurdurr, and more. Additionally, Steel-types such as Metang can wall Dewgong to high heavens as they are immune to Toxic and take nothing from Dewgong's weak Surf. Finally, Taunt users, particularly Mandibuzz and Misdreavus, can temporarily halt Dewgong's usage of support moves and also cripple it with either Will-O-Wisp or Toxic Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, respectively.</p>

while i would provide a c/p, there's some qc stuff you should look at, plus set capitalization and stuff
also use american grammar
that>to in situations mentioned in check
most stuff imo should be obvious
 
#18
I haven't used Dewgong, so I chose not to qc it, but I have one thing I want you to mention Metal Sonic (it goes with the comment from Kingler12345 actually). I want you to mention the specific reasons why Ice Beam is chosen as the main offensive move (being able to hit most Poison-types hard, especially Grass / Poison Pokemon). Since Surf isn't even the first slash, it shouldn't be lumped together with Ice Beam. I'd explain that Surf provides helpful coverage against Steel-types who are also immune to Toxic.
 

GatoDelFuego

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#19
I like this check; please add these two additional changes not in bold.

<p>Encore is a good move that can be used&mdash;it sets Dewgong apart from the rest&mdash;being able to lock the opponent into a move and provide free switch-in opportunities for teammates. Toxic Spikes support is recommended to start the stalling immediately when the opponent switches in, as opposed to Dewgong having Dewgong leave itself vulnerable that turn when using Toxic. Scolipede, Roselia, and Garbodor are great Toxic Spikes users to that support Dewgong, as they both resist the Grass-type attacks that Dewgong dislikes and can also force those Grass-types out.</p>

Furthermore, Dewgong is easily forced out, ensuring meaning (ensuring is correct in this case w/ my change) that it will take plenty of damage from entry hazards on each switch-in. not remain alive for long if hazards are up.

2/2