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Dialysis

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Jimbon, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    498
    DIALYSIS

    [​IMG]


    Introduction:

    Hello Smogon! I'm back with another RMT of my favourite team I have ever made, sadly though it will not get a lot of usage anymore. With B/W2 recently being released, there are so many more things to prepare for and preparing for these threats would mean making a lot of changes, something I am reluctant to considering how much I enjoy using this team. This team has been a work in progress for a long time, but it's also my most favourite team to use. It's a team I found to have consistent success with on the ladder and against other players, as well as being a fun team to use in general. As for irrelevant ladder peaks, it hit about 1350 before the release of B/W2, which isn't too bad for someone who doesn't ladder a lot. The initial team building process for this team began around 4 or 5 months ago, when a friend brought up the topic of Choice Band Terrakion with Hydreigon as an offensive partner. I was very skeptical to Hydreigon because I initially thought it was outclassed by other Dragons such as Dragonite and Latios, but man was I wrong. I had an idea of what I wanted to use, but everything I tried didn't work. I have tried all different sorts of playstyles and weathers to find something that works well, and for a long time I was stuck on how to make the team work. Every time I would make a change, another problem would occur and it was difficult to find a good medium. A couple months later, I signed up for round 62 of Battling 101 to get some help with the team. The help I recieved was great, it patched up many holes in the team and overall made the team a lot more fun to use. Just from using this team I feel I have gained a much better understanding of the metagame, and as a whole I feel I have become a better player. Since then, I've been constantly changing it to deal with some of its biggest problems, and here I think the team has reached it's maximum potential which is why I am retiring it. From then, the team has adopted many different variations and different options to help support these two Pokemon in particular. Overall, it's really shown me how underrated Hydreigon is/was in the BW1 metagame, and how easily it tears through unprepared teams. The aim of this team is to abuse the offensive combination of Hydreigon / Terrakion, while my other team mates provide support for them. It's surprising how good these two are as a pair, sometimes all you need is Stealth Rock up to grant these beasts the KOs they deserve. Terrakion is a devastating stallbreaker, pretty much 2HKO'ing the most solid stall cores, while Hydreigon forms as a great mon against VoltTurn teams, being able to deal with the ever so common Scizor and Rotom. This is probably the team that took me the longest time to make, which is why I want to share it with other members of the Smogon Community, and get some feedback as to how to make it better.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Team Building Process (open)
    Team Building Process (open)

    Having used Celebi in some of my other teams, I can attest to how good it is. A number of key resistances, great bulk and Stealth Rock make it a good lead. It also helps me against Rain Teams in situations against Politoed leads.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    With Stealth Rock support up, I already had part of my defensive core ready. I went about looking for a strong physical attacker that would perform well in the current metagame. Gyarados was something that looked promising, with Rain being so common at the time it had an easy time ploughing through teams with a STAB Rain Boosted Waterfall. I opted for a Substitute Dragon Dance set to set up on Defensive threats, and to compensate for Gyarados's sub par speed stat.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    From experience I knew that Gyarados was pretty hard to switch in safely. With a weakness to Stealth Rock and a common Electric weakness, I knew I had to be careful. I chose to add Scizor into the team, it added powerful priority that would make up for the other slow team members. It's U-Turn forces switches from your opponent which was what made it so appealing. It meant I could safely get Gyarados in against Forretress or Tentacruel and start dishing out big hits.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I had used Terrakion previously and I had a lot of success with it. I chose to add Terrakion into the trio; the set in mind was a Choice Banded set, as it takes advantage of Terrakion's great offensive stats and even better STAB options. Terrakion also gels well with the other team members and forms a potent offensive core with Scizor and Gyarados. It makes it very hard for your opponent to switch in, even with Physical Walls such as Forretress and Skarmory, both of which are 2HKO'd by Terrakion after hazards.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It was at this point that I realized that I couldn't rely on my physical attackers to deal with physical walls all the time. Especially with no spinner, it would be hard to continuously switch in Terrakion with potential Spikes / Toxic Spikes up, which would quickly wear down Terrakion. I needed a Special attacker that hit hard and removed the physical walls for Terrakion, Scizor and Gyarados. Latios also synergizes well with Terrakion, taking on eachother's weaknesses.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    At this point, my team was very offensive. I was really lacking a designated physical wall, something to switch into Scizor and Terrakion, both of which who were very threatening to my team. I chose Gliscor for the final slot, to sponge all these hits and heal it all up with Poison Heal. The Toxic support Gliscor had was also very helpful, one turn of Toxic easily put many things into KO range for Terrakion, and coupled with Stealth Rock it was a pretty effective strategy.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I used the team for a little while, but I wasn't satisfied with how it was working. Volt Turn teams were everywhere, and they had a field day with my team. With Latios Choiced, Scizors easily came in to Pursuit, or U-Turn out and gain momentum, something I despised. A friend suggested I try Hydreigon out, as a replacement for Latios. I wasn't familiar with Hydreigon, other than it being over hyped at the release of Black and White. I tried a Choiced set, but it was pretty much just a poor man's Latios. Not satisfied again, I looked at the other viable options, and what Hydreigon could do. Substitute was the set that looked most promising. Hydreigon's decent special bulk means it easily gains Substitutes against Celebi and Rotom, two common members of Volt Turn teams. I tried it out and never looked back, Hydreigon filled a gap which eased the pressure on my other team mates.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gyarados really wasn't pulling it's weight. It had a very hard time setting up, and seemed a little redundant on the team. Even when facing opposing Rain Teams, it was walled so easily and never did anything worth mentioning, the Stealth Rock weakness was horrible too and there wasn't really a place for a Spinner at the time. I swapped out Gyarados for Jellicent, who helped me to check fighting types better, as well as aiding me against defensively inclined teams. With Taunt, and a valuable water resist, Jellicent was a much better choice over Gyarados. The burn support crippled many things, making them much easier to switch in to. It compensated well for the lack of a Rapid Spinner.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The lack of a Spinner was still something that annoyed me. For a team with a pretty offensive playstyle, I had to switch a lot to keep the momentum. Of course, this also meant weakening my other Pokemon every time I switched in. I wanted a Spinner to alleviate this problem, but could also do other things beneficial to my team. The only Spinner I'd had success with before was Tentacruel, I hated how frail Starmie was, and Donphan didn't appeal to me with Rain Teams being so common. Jellicent was quickly replaced by Tentacruel to provide the Rapid Spin support I had wanted for so long. Tentacruel also gave pretty much the same synergy as before, but it made Toxic Spikes less of an issue. Not to mention Tentacruel sports similar defenses to Jellicent, making it a great addition to my team.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It was at this point that Ferrothorn and Scizor became more annoying. Losing Jellicent meant a loss of Taunt / Will-O-Wisp, which crippled both respectively. Scizor would still U-Turn out and it didn't matter what I switched to to take the U-Turn, because the Pokemon sent out would still hit me as hard. I decided to get rid of Scizor, and replace it with Magnezone. Magnezone helped me to trap those annoying Steels, as well as giving me a decent revenge killer.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Although Magnezone helped me to trap Steels, it still wasn't pulling it's weight. The only reason to use it was to trap those Steels, and when I faced a team without them, it was pretty much just fodder. Even as a Scarfer, it wasn't that great. Many +1 Dragons still outsped Magnezone, and among other common Scarfers, it was still relatively slow. It failed to revenge Dragons and lacked the power I needed. In Round 62 of Battling 101, mostwanted suggested a great Jirachi set I could use to revenge those pesky Dragons, as well as still being able to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn hard. It made a great addition to the team, and fixed all the problems I was having.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The final change of the team, and probably the most important. I had a severe weakness to Sun teams, especially those with Volcarona. It could easily set up on Celebi, Tentacruel, Hydreigon and Jirachi. I tried switching Terrakion to a Scarf set, but I really missed the power Choice Band provided. I had much more trouble with Stall Teams, which was arguably a bigger threat to my team than Volcarona. At this point, the Rapid Spin support really wasn't that important. I often found there were matches where I didn't even need to Spin, and often Tentacruel was set up fodder for opponents. I got rid of Tentacruel, and subbed in Heatran, who played the role of a Special Wall, a check to Sun and very helpful phasing support. It also gave me a much better check to Specs Latios, and an ever better answer to CM Latias.


    Under the Microscope:

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SAtk / 12 SDef / 124 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    Although this team does not have a designated lead, Celebi is a great choice to lead with. This Celebi set forms part of the defensive core of my team, it synergizes really well with the other members of my team, while most importantly providing the team with Stealth Rock support which often helps me get important OHKOs or 2HKOs on specific Pokemon. Celebi as a whole is a great matchup against most leads. Rain Teams in particular will usually lead off with Politoed, which pretty much gives me guaranteed Stealth Rock, as even Specs Politoed fails to OHKO Celebi. While having good defences, Celebi also sports some pretty good offensive stats. Given that Celebi's is not one of my main attackers, I can freely spam Leaf Storm, heavily denting possible switch ins to Celebi. Hidden Power [Ice] is my second coverage move of choice, as it allows me to weaken Dragons to put them into KO range for Jirachi, or even straight up OHKO them with Celebi. Combined with the Special Attack investment, Celebi has a chance to OHKO Terrakion in Sand with Leaf Storm, as well as OHKOing 0 HP / 0SDef variants of Salamence with Hidden Power [Ice]. Celebi also has a chance to 2HKO bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite with Hidden Power [Ice], which often deters it from setting up, and puts less pressure on Gliscor to deal with it. The final move of Choice is U-Turn, a great tool for scouting purposes. With the Speed investment, I can ensure I outspeed Specially Defensive Ninetales and Choice Specs Politoed, two common leads. This means I can U-Turn out safely to scout their set, or set up Stealth Rock without fear of being outsped. It's also great in conjunction with Jirachi, as they form a U-Turning combination which is great for racking up hazard damage on your opponent, as well as gaining momentum. Like I said in the Team Building Process, I built this team to help beat common playstyles, Rain in particular. Celebi is a great check against Rain Teams, as it threatens the powerful Special Attackers that enjoy spamming Hydro Pump. Finally the Special Defense EVs are there primarily to help take Volt Switches a little better. I am considering using Recover over U-Turn, so that Celebi's longevity will increase and my defensive core will be a lot more solid.

    --

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Specially Defensive Heatran forms part two of my defensive core. It does so many things for this team, making it an irreplaceable member. It helps me to check Sun teams, those carrying Volcarona in particular. Heatran buffers the Sun boosted hits and can status enemies with ease. Heatran does a very important role on the team as my special tank. Heatran is a great switch in to Dragons with Air Balloon intact, as you can check Dragonite without Waterfall, Salamence, Latias and Latios. All of which will not appreciate a Toxic, potential burn from Lava Plume or being phased out by Roar, stopping them from repeatedly using Dragon Dance / Calm Mind and sweeping through my team. Heatran's typing in general makes it a great addition for any team, with so many resistances you easily find opportunities to switch in safely and get a free Toxic on something. Heatran sporting naturally good bulk has no problem taking hits, meaning you can very easily Toxic / Protect to quickly rack up damage on your opponent. This is very useful when wearing down opposing walls, putting them into KO range for Terrakion or Hydreigon. Even bulky waters cannot really do a whole lot to Heatran. Slowbro and Jellicent are both poisoned to stop their walling capabilities, while they barely 3HKO Heatran with Scald. The crux of this set is the Air Balloon, keeping it intact gives Heatran a free switch or a free turn more than it should have. It means that you can dispose of Dugtrio, who does threaten my team a lot.

    --

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - Iron Head

    A very underrated set from DPP makes a return on this team. Jirachi is slowly becoming one of my favourite Pokemon, mainly because of this set. Suggested by mostwanted, Choice Scarf Jirachi does a lot of things for my team. It provides me with a revenge killer with great bulk, which is important for switching in against things such as Latios who prefer to hit and run. Jirachi also provides the team with momentum via U-Turn; which is helpful when trying to get free switches into Terrakion and Hydreigon. I have tried other scarfers, but none do it better than Jirachi does. The bulk, the typing, the versatility in moves all make it fantastic. Jirachi's movepool itself is amazing, Ice Punch in particular makes it a great answer to Dragons at +1, which leads me onto the EV spread. Max attack is essential otherwise Jirachi really does lack offensive power, 148 Speed means Jirachi hits 300 speed, enough to outspeed Adamant +1 Salamence, Adamant Scarf MoxieMence, +1 Jolly Dragonite, Specs Latios, CM Latias, +1 Adamant Haxorus, Adamant Scarf Haxorus and Jolly Terrakion -- as a revenge killer, this is very useful. Jirachi already has the necessary bulk to switch in, and none will appreciate an Iron Head, Ice Punch or a U-Turn out into Terrakion who can deal heavy damage to all of the aforementioned Dragons. As for the other moves, Fire Punch allows me to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Forretress, while OHKOing Scizor. This is important because without a Spinner, I cannot afford to allow my opponent to get hazards up. With Terrakion being Choiced, it means I will have to switch a lot, something I do not need to do if necessary. Jirachi's offensive coverage goes hand in hand with Terrakion and Hydreigon, making a great offensive trio.

    --

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Probably the hardest hitter in the BW OU Metagame, Terrakion makes an appearance on this team. When looking for physical attackers to use, there are few better than Terrakion. When equipped with a Choice Band, you gain the ability to 2HKO pretty much everything in OU. Terrakion's dual STAB is only commonly resisted by Toxicroak, who is still outsped and 2HKO'd. This really does make Terrakion a force to be reckoned with, as it can fare really well against full stall teams. As soon as Terrakion is sent out, you really can't afford to switch into something else in fear of being 2HKO'd, arguably the best way to get past Terrakion is to get Toxic Spikes up, or use a revenge killer such as Latios or Scizor, who are both dealt with by Heatran. Terrakion also pairs up with Hydreigon to make a great offensive partnership, both dealing with eachother's counters. Hydreigon nails Gliscor and Skarmory, while Terrakion destroys Blissey and Chansey. Terrakion takes full advantage of Jirachi's U-Turns, giving Terrakion free switches without taking a hit. From here, Terrakion can proceed to hit stuff hard, with little drawback. As for the other moves, X-Scissor is to hit CM Reuniclus who is not 2HKO'd by Stone Edge, while Quick Attack is useful for revenging other sweepers such as Latios and Haxorus at ~20%, which can mean the difference between getting swept, and sweeping yourself.

    As a testament to how good Choice Band Terrakion is, here are some calcs. None of these can switch into Terrakion after Stealth Rock.
    Terrakion Calcs (open)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 49.7% - 58.68% (2HKO after SR)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Chansey (+Def) : 109.94% - 129.55% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Scizor: 103.55% - 122.34% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 112 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 102.6% - 120.82% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 72.28% - 85.4% (2HKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/144 Def Forretress (+Def) : 50.28% - 59.6% (2HKO after SR)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Politoed (+Def) : (2HKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252 HP/240 Def Tentacruel: 70.05% - 82.42% (2HKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs 248 HP/216 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 56.58% - 66.5% (2HKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs 248 HP/252 Def Gyarados (+Def) : 103.82% - 122.9% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    • 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs 248 HP/24 Def Starmie: 83.9% - 98.76% (Potential OHKO after SR / 2HKO)


    --

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Flamethrower

    Here we are, the MVP, the star of the show. Hydreigon is amazing in the current state of the metagame. It easily sets up Substitutes against Defensive Threats and can proceed to hit said threats with it's great coverage. Hydreigon is my answer to Volt Turn teams, as they can be quite annoying otherwise. It can outspeed and OHKO Scizor, while only being 2HKO'd by Bullet Punch. Choice Rotom can only hit Hydreigon with Hidden Power [Ice], Substitute blocks Trick, while both Volt Switch and Hydro Pump fail to break Hydreigon's Substitute. Hydreigon also outspeeds bulky Rotom, to avoid Will-O-Wisp too. You should never let Hydreigon get a free Sub up, ever. It can hit so many things with it's great coverage, and behind a Sub it still 2HKOs a lot of defensive threats. Tyranitar is mauled by Focus Blast, while also hitting Terrakion and Heatran. Dragon Pulse beats opposing Dragons, while Flamethrower stops Ferrothorn / Forretress setting up hazards, while Hydreigon can still get easy Substitutes up against these threats. Hydreigon is the main reason I am considering Roserade > Celebi, as with Toxic Spikes support, Hydreigon beats Chansey / Blissey without Heal Bell, Jellicent, and pretty much any other wall with recovery and isn't immune to poison. Once Hydreigon gets a Substitute up, it is deadly to face. In combination with Terrakion, this pretty much murders Stall Teams. Hydreigon completes part 2 of the offensive pair, I can't stress how good these are together, very very few things can switch in and the ones that can, Hydreigon sets up on. The EVs are straightforward, max speed and special attack to maximize offensive capabilities. Hydreigon already has pretty decent defences to start with, so it has no problem getting a free Substitute up. While Hydreigon isn't as fast as other Dragons, it more than makes up for it in bulk and offensive power. No other Dragon does this as well as Hydreigon does.

    --

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 120 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Protect / Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Substitute

    Part 3 of my defensive core, Gliscor. Gliscor completes the defensive partnership, synergizing very well with Celebi and Heatran. Gliscor forms as the team's physical wall, being able to buffer hits from common physical threats such as Terrakion and Scizor, and heal off the damage with Poison Heal. This is my own take on the Substitute Toxic Gliscor set, designed to beat some of the things that are threatening to my team, most notably SD Lucario and DD Gyarados. Lucario is OHKO'd by Earthquake with the 60 Atk EVs, as well as 2HKOing Specially Defensive Jirachi meaning it will have a harder time passing Wishes to other team mates. DD Gyarados running 204 Spe EVs will be outsped by Gliscor with 76 Spe EVs, meaning I can Toxic it before it Substitutes / Dragon Dances. This means I can continuously Substitute / Protect until it wears itself down, giving it a much harder time setting up. Max HP is self explanatory, while the rest goes into Defence to aid against the aforementioned physical attackers. Just like Heatran, Gliscor provides very helpful Toxic support. This helps to limit the longevity of mons that seem trouble for Hydreigon or Terrakion, and often can mean the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO. Gliscor itself does a pretty good job of outstalling a lot of mons. CM Latias and bulky Rotom both get poisoned and outstalled by Gliscor, should Latias not carry Substitute. This is especially helpful in the situation of Rotom vs Gliscor as it warrants easier switching in for Heatran and Terrakion.

    Threat List:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] (Hyper Offensive Teams) - Hyper Offensive Teams are problematic to face. With no Spinner, and no real good match up against a Deoxys-D lead, my opponent can pretty easily get all his hazards up. From there, Rotom-W / Scizor can repeat their Volt Turn chain, building up hazards. If I switch Hydreigon in, it's likely they switch their scarfer in, so I have to switch racking up even more hazard damage. In the case of a dual screen lead, it's annoying too. Celebi, Gliscor and Heatran all become set up fodder for things such as Sub SD Terrakion, Lum DD Dragonite and Lum DD Haxorus.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] (Sun Teams) - While you might think Sun Teams are easy to face when I have Heatran, ones running Dugtrio and Volcarona together are dangerous. If Ninetales gets prior damage on Heatran it can break the Balloon, and send in Dugtrio. Usually it's pretty easy to predict when Dugtrio is coming in by double switching, but you can't always predict that. When you get it wrong, you get trapped, and Volcarona can easily set up on a lot of my team.

    [​IMG] (Calm Mind Reuniclus) - Calm Mind Reuniclus is probably my biggest weakness. Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus is 2HKOd by Terrakion's Stone Edge whereas Calm Mind isn't. This means Reuniclus can easily fish for a Stone Edge by Recovering and then can keep setting up. X-Scissor may 2HKO Reuniclus, but I never use X-Scissor, only for Reuniclus. Therefore I'd have to predict the switch to 2HKO it, it hasn't been much of a problem because I haven't faced many. When I do face it, I have a very difficult time and usually ends in sacking 1 or 2 team members to beat it.

    Importable:
    Importable (open)
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SAtk / 12 SDef / 124 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - Iron Head

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Flamethrower

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 120 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Protect / Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,731
    Hi

    This is truly an amazing team. I really like it a lot. If you have troubles with Calm Mind Reuniclus, you should probably try giving up Fire Punch for Trick on Jirachi. Jirachi is bulky enough to tank any hit from +1 Reuniclus so you can Trick it your Choice Scarf, removing its ability to sweep your team. If it has used Focus Blast, you can stall it out somewhat easily by getting Gliscor or Celebi in, even though it'll probably hurt Gliscor a lot. If it uses Calm Mind or Recover, it's locked into a non-attacking move, and if its uses Psychic/Psyshock, Hydreigon can take it. Obviously, this isn't that good of a check but it certainly helps you. If you're worried about Forretress and Ferrothorn setting up hazards on you without Fire Punch though, you could always use Hidden Power Fire instead of Hidden Power Ice on Celebi. Ferrothorn and Forretress tend to like to switch into Celebi's Grass attacks to set up their Spikes and Spin your Rocks away in Forre's case and since not all Celebis carry Hidden Power Fire they are often safe. It also gives you an other check to Scizor + Rotom-W Volturn chains as you don't seem to be satisfied enough by Hydreigon. Losing the ability to beat Dragonite trying to set up on you sucks but you can still U-turn out of it and go to your own Choice Scarf Jirachi and Ice Punch it. You also have Air Balloon SpD Heatran which is a great check to this kind of Dragons.

    I don't have anything other to say other than I luvdisc'd it. Good luck!
  3. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,510
    Hey Jimbon,

    This is a great team that has very few weaknesses, so good job building it. Since you have troubles with Volturn teams, you could try using Hidden Power Fire on Celebi, as you will be able to switch on a Volt Switch and take down the incoming Scizor.

    To help with Sun teams, you could use Recover on Celebi (Celebi can handle most Chlorophyll users with it) over Stealth Rock, while using Stealth Rock on Heatran instead, foregoing Protect (you dont have leftovers so it isnt a big lose) I also support Jirachi's suggestion of using Trick on Jirachi since it seems the best way of keeping Reuniclus in check without doing major changes, and you don't really need Fire Punch that much since Lucario and CM Jirachi can be beaten by the rest of the team without much trouble already.
  4. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    @ Jirachi: Trick on Jirachi does seem like a good way to deal with CM Reuniclus, losing Fire Punch doesn't really seem like such a drawback when I have Heatran to deal with Forretress / Ferrothorn. Running Hidden Power [Fire] on Celebi does compensate for the loss of Fire Punch, and Trick is arguably more important. It also helps against Volt Turn like you said, when coupled with Deoxys-D can be difficult to face.

    @ DestinyUnknown: Yeah Hidden Power [Fire] on Celebi does look like a good change to help deal with Scizor. Recover over Stealth Rock is a great idea, it helps keep Celebi alive for longer meaning I can switch into Rotom-W / Politoed a lot easier.

    Thanks for the rates guys, keep them coming!
  5. snarfboywonder

    snarfboywonder

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    Amazing team. I've noticed a few uncommon weaknesses. Infernape can straight up OHKO your entire team, with your only answers being Jirachi(who can't OHKO him) and Terrakion, who has to take a chance on a speed tie. Sawsbuck can also give you trouble if your Gliscor goes down. He OHKOs Terrakion and Hydreigon, potentially OHKOing Heatran(if the balloon is popped) and 2HKOing Celebi, Jirachi and Heatran(with the balloon intact). Luckily, Infernape and Sawsbuck aren't really common enough to warrant a huge change in the team.

    EDIT: I don't think Close Combat actually OHKOs Heatran, so he is probably your best bet against Nape
  6. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

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    Hey man,

    Really nice team, Jimbon! I find that Sun offense is a nightmare to face, especially when Heatran goes down due to Dugtrio, a member Sun teams often carry. If Volcarona sets up a few Quiver Dance, it pretty much sweeps your team. With Fire Blast, Jirachi and Gliscor go down, while Bug Buzz wrecks Celebi and Hydreigon. Variants using Hidden Power Ground easily defeat your Terrakion. To help patch this weakness, I'd definitely opt for a Choice Scarf Terrakion over your current variant. Thanks to its boosted speed, it can revenge-kill +1 Volcarona and +2 Dragonite. Also, you may want Earthquake over Quick Attack in order to hit Toxicroak, who resists all of Terrakion's other moves. It also hits stuff like Jirachi and Tentacruel. As Jirachi mentioned, you may want Trick to help patch your CM Reuniclus problems. Losing Fire Punch isn't too bad, as you already have Terrakion to check Ferrothorn. I find Celebi wants Hidden Power Fire, as it would allow her to deal with Scizor with more ease, helping you deal with VoltTurn. I don't have much else to add - cool team, man, and good luck!
    Choice Scarf Terrakion (open)

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf | Justified
    Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ X-Scissor
    ~ Earthquake
  7. StormFangGamer

    StormFangGamer

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
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    Yeah, I agree with Expert Physics. If you do not revenge kill with Scarfed Terrakion, your team is at risk of being swept.
  8. DaRkRaii

    DaRkRaii

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    If you have a problem facing HO, with Deoxys-D, Banded Scizor would probably be your best bet. It will either force a switch from a good player or massively dent Deo D so you can some in with something else and KO it.
  9. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Im glad someone is not running rain and still doing a decent team during this days (seriously, fuck off politoed, tornadus, etc). However, i see a bit of a problem at taking water attacks, being 3 out of 6 of your pokes weak to them, and 2 resisting them. Celebi is by far your best answer to rain, so i reccomend you switching it to a more defensive support set:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Perish Song
    - U-turn/Thunder Wave

    This set can switch much more easily into in-coming hydro pumps or surfs, and it will always beat CM reuniculus. U-turn synergizes well with perish song, but t-wave is for tornadus trying to get momentum or hitting something in your team hard with LO hurricane. I would also reccomend u putting Stealth Rock on Heatran over the move you think you need the least.

    Overall i think this is a great team, however yeah reuniculus sweeps you hard.
  10. Griff

    Griff

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    Omg.. that Gliscor set. It's so good, but no one I see uses it.
    Anyways I saw all the previous suggestions and I know that some people don't want two scarfers but both your scarfers have quite different coverage so it sort of works out. They also fulfill different roles. You are very weak to volt turn so I think HP Fire on Celebi will be nice. HP Ice won't even KO Dnite due to Multiscale anyways. I see that post where he said that Infernape KOs your whole team well, it isn't even used that much and if you change to scarf Terrakion you won't have to risk a speed tie and you can check it with CC. Just a thought, have you ever considered putting a Spinner on this team? I love that fact that on Hydreigon if they break your sub and they are choiced, you have things to switch into that can force more switches. That's pretty much my rate.
  11. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    @ Snarfboywonder: Now that I look at it, Infernape is very threatening. Most Infernapes I see are usually Scarf variants, so I have yet to had trouble with it. I do agree that it causes me some trouble however. Sawsbuck on the other hand is something I've never had a problem with. If Heatran still has the Air Balloon intact, it can't OHKO me with Nature Power, while Jump Kick can only 2HKO. It needs an Swords Dance up before it can beat Gliscor, and I'm pretty sure Jirachi can live a +0 Nature Power and Fire Punch it. Thanks for pointing out those weaknesses I didn't see!

    @ Expert Physics: While Volcarona is a threat, I play pretty aggressive with Heatran, meaning I can usually get up Stealth Rock. As long as Heatran is alive, Volcarona is not a threat. On the other hand, if Heatran goes down, Volc does have an easy time with my time, but usually I can play around it. Dugtrio is pretty easy to predict when it is going to come in, especially when their lead Ninetales goes for Energy Ball against Heatran. As for the Choice Scarf Terrakion change, it would be something I am reluctant to do, while it does help me against Volcarona and Dragonite, it opens up an even bigger stall problem and exposes my weakness to CM Reuniclus even further. I do agree that Hidden Power [Fire] Celebi is probably the best change to help deal with Volt Turn and Hyper Offense Teams, so I'll try that out. Thanks for the rate man!

    @ StormFangGamer: Like I said to Expert Physics, Scarf Terrakion does open up a weakness to stall, as CB Terrakion can deal with many defensive threats pretty easily. 2 Scarfers also does seem kind of redundant too, especially when they pretty much do the same thing as revenge killers.

    @ DaRkRaii: I tried Scizor in an earlier version of my team over Jirachi, but I do lose my revenge killer for Dragons.

    @ Stone RG: That Celebi set does look very interesting. I might mess around with the EVs, as Heatran is already a very good special wall and does the job arguably better than Celebi. Perish Song is very intriguing though, it helps against CM Reuniclus and QD Volcarona. If I did go with this, then Stealth Rock on Heatran would be better. Thanks for the rate!

    @ Griff: Like I said to others, Terrakion is my main wall breaker, and changing it to scarf does open up some of my other weaknesses, most notably stall and CM Reuniclus. While it does help against Volcarona, it's only a problem when Heatran is gone, which is rarely a problem with smart switching. The Celebi set I listed was to 2HKO Bulky DD Dragonite, to stop it setting up. Hidden Power [Fire] on Celebi does look like the best change on Celebi, as others have stated. As for a Spinner, I used to have Tentacruel over Heatran for Spin support, but it made me even weaker to Sun and Volcarona. Thanks for the rate!
  12. dadoux

    dadoux

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    Hi jim, nice team !

    I don't really know how you can reduce the t.list more than that, Trick > Fire punch on Jirachi seems to be a good deal against Bulky user like Latias CM recover, Volcarona ( even tho he can outspeed you at +1 and just murder Rachi ) and Reuniclus. Scarf Terrakion can be useful against suns but you already have Jirachi, and they both can RK pretty much the same mons ( Gyarados without sub, DD nite and stuff... ) so it won't be that useful.
    Luke@Ice punch can be really troublesome too if you use Jirachi@Trick, the idea of Hp fire on Celebi can solve this problem. If you try Scarf Terrakion, maybe changing Heatran to an offensive Air baloon set and Jirachi to a spD+ set would be the way to go, you can use SR on Rachi / Tran with these changes, to free up a move for Celebi.
    Nothing much to say, gg again for the team and gl for the future ! :)
    + Luvdisc'd

    ( Btw in the txt Heatran is @Leftovers, not Air baloon )
  13. Friar

    Friar

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    My suggestion is to drop one of your coverage moves for Taunt on Hydreigon. This change would help you quite a lot against Stall, as Jellicent, blobs, and other walls can't recover their health. I would say that Flamethrower is the move to drop, especially if you do end up changing to the HP Fire Celebi that was suggested to be even better against Voltturn teams than Hydreigon was. This change also allows you to keep your current lineup intact, as by running Taunt you don't especially need Roserade over Celebi for TSpikes support. Good team!
  14. blunder

    blunder

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    Wow, I have a team, EXTREMELY similar to this one with the Terrakion and Hydreigon core, but I run different sets like Sp def Celebi, Scarf Jirachi and I run Scarf Rak. I also don't use Gliscor, I run Slowbro for a physical wall. This is a really nice team Jimbon and really works well. Luvdisc'd
  15. Nate Dog

    Nate Dog

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    Jun 27, 2012
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    Landorus-T can cause you some pretty big problems, switching in on a choiced move by Jirachi or Terra after they get a kill, set up a sub then it has a move for every mon you've got. Especially if heatran's balloon is popped. HP ice is SE for half your team while EQ for the other half. I'm fairly new to competitive battling so I don't have a good suggestion for you, just thought I'd make you aware of this weakness
  16. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    @ Morpheus: As I said said earlier, Trick probably is the best option for dealing with CM Reuniclus without messing up other aspects of the team. As for Scarf Terrakion, I'm really not satisfied with it's power output. Choice Band pretty much 2HKOs all the defensive threats I have trouble with, losing the extra power makes Stall that much harder to play against, which is arguably a bigger problem than being able to beat Volcarona. As for Lucario, it doesn't really pose much of a threat to my team. Jirachi outspeeds and revenges, as does Terrakion. If it carries Bullet Punch for Terrakion, odds are it doesn't carry Crunch meaning Celebi can check it aswell. Gliscor also is not OHKO'd by Adamant Life Orb Lucario's Ice Punch, while I Earthquake it for a guaranteed OHKO. As for Offensive Heatran, there is really no need. With an offensive set, I expose a weakness to Latios and some other Dragons, while failing to beat Volcarona and Latias. There's really no need to go Offensive with Heatran when Hydreigon does the job a lot better. Good suggestions though, thanks for the rate and the luvdisc!

    @ Friar: That seems like a very good suggestion, as the only things that can switch into Hydreigon are things such as Chansey and Jellicent who are shut down by Taunt and are helpless against it. Thanks for the rate man, great suggestion!

    @ ThunderBlunder: Yeah, Terrakion and Hydreigon make a really good Offensive core together, beating eachother's counters with ease. Thanks for the compliment and the luvdisc, glad you like the team!

    @ Nate Dog: This team was not intended for use in B/W2, it was made before it was released.

    Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I will be taking them into account and definitely trying to make the team work in a similar fashion for B/W2.
  17. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    Hey Jimbon,
    this looks like a solid team, I really like the use of sub toxic gliscor and Hydreigon. The first thing I noticed when looking at the team is that your offensive core is incredibly slow even you scarfer dosen't have max speed lol, Giving Celebi Thunder Wave over Recover letting Hydreigon wreak Havoc even more effectively, it also forms a para flinch combo with Jirachi's Iron Head, not only that but if you can catch infernape with thunder wave on the switch it will greatly decrease it's threat level.

    With no attack investment you do (98.22% - 116.01%) to Lucario, although it's not an OHKO you're slower than Lucario anyway and it will take Life Orb damage and be in Guarenteed OHKO range. You may want to consider this spread on Gliscor: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spd this lets Gliscor outspeed Neutral Rotom-W's and Neutral Lucario's enabling you to PP Stall all of Rotom-W's Hydro Pump's without losing a shred of health. Not only that but when you're up against Gliscor 1v1 you will generally have taken less damage by the time Lucario is dead because you kill it before it can Ice Punch you. Overall you lose a slight amount of defensive prowess and you cant 2HKO Jirachi, but being able to outspeed so much more of the metagame and PP / Toxic stall them out is very beneficial.

    There's not really much else to say other than GL with the team, I hope this rate helped, Luvdisc'd.
  18. Griff

    Griff

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    your team is really weak to infernape
  19. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

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    Amazing team. Luvdisc'd. Anyways, as stated, your team has a huge weakness to Infernape, but luckily they aren't that common. One suggestion I have is trying out Fire Blast over Flamethrower on Hydreigon. The reason for this is because with Flamethrower, you would normally need to 3HKO Specially Defensive Jirachi after SR damage. With Fire Blast, however, it is only a 2HKO after SR damage. This can definitely be helpful if you have a Substitute up and fail to KO with Flamethrower. Fire Blast's increased damage is also helpful in general. It can potentially help you counter Sun teams, who you mentioned is a threat, due to it's bigger base power than Flamethrower.
  20. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude is an official Custom Title Rater
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor

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    Hey Jimbon nice team!

    There isnt really much to rate on this team tbh but every one seems to be pointing out your Infernape Weakness and if Gliscor goes down your team also opens its self up to Terakion. If Hydriegon has a Substitute up it can take on both these pokemon with Earthpower>Focus Blast Without Focus Blast you dont really miss out on to much coverage wise as Flamethrower takes out Steels anyway. The only steel that gets taken care of better with Flamethrower then it does with Focus Blast is Heatran and he gets destroyed by Earthpower. Also Earthpower has a nice 100% accuracy to go with it. Just something to look into :)

    Anyway good luck with this team the use of Hydriegon is great!

    tl:dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Hydriegon
    .Earthpower--->Focus Blast


    ~Superpowerdude
  21. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    @ The Great Mighty Doom: The Thunder Wave suggestion looks very good, as common scarfers who switch into Celebi will be crippled, most importantly Infernape and Terrakion who can then be outsped by Hydreigon / Terrakion. As for the Gliscor set, I really don't need to be outspeeding Lucario. Jirachi and Terrakion outspeed, while Gliscor is never OHKO'd by a +0 Life Orb Ice Punch. The only way it can beat Gliscor one on one is after a Swords Dance, and it really doesn't have any opportunities to set up a Swords Dance. Heatran Lava Plumes while Celebi U-Turns out into Jirachi to revenge it. Gliscor also outspeeds bulky Rotom-W, while outspeeding more offensive sets is really not necessary, as Celebi checks it very nicely.

    @ Shining Latios: Yeah, Infernape is a problem, luckily though I haven't really had too much trouble with it. As for the Fire Blast suggestion, that does seem like a very good change. The 2HKO on Jirachi is nice as it spreads paralysis around my team pretty easily, which is annoying. I'll definitely try it out on a similar team I've made for B/W2. Thanks for the rate and the luvdisc man!

    @ Superpowerdude: Thanks for the kind words man, as I have said to others, Infernape is annoying to play around, but as of yet it surprisingly hasn't caused a lot of problems. I'll definitely try out your Earth Power suggestion, Focus Blast was nice for hitting Tyranitar as it switches in, but honestly Terrakion and Gliscor take care of Tyranitar easily enough. Thanks for the rate!
  22. KnivesNPistols

    KnivesNPistols

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    Excellent team, great work! Just a couple tips.

    I would suggest Recover on Celebi over U-Turn to improve its walling capabilities and improve your chance to preserve him until late game as he does seem to be pretty important defensively. If you do like scouting on him though, U-Turn should at least be replaced with Baton Pass. Baton Pass might not inflict damage (Celebi's U-Turn is pretty weak anyway) but it enables you to escape from Pursuit users, namely Scizor, TTar and Metagross among others. BTW how useful is HP Ice to you?

    On Terrakion move 4 HP EVs to SpD. This prevents the newly released Genesect to obtain his boost in SpA. It also gives you an extra point in SpD when you receive your 50% boost in Sandstorm.

    I don't think that those 60 Atk EVs on Gliscor are the best investment. Gliscor is one of the best counters in the game to SpD Rachi (as long as your Toxic Orb is activated) and Rachi probably won't stay in and let you KO it anyway. Luke is countered well by Terrakion, barring the extremly rare Bullet Punch variant that won't carry Ice Punch and thus won't be able to touch Gliscor anyway. Those extra 60 EVs in Def could prove useful against fighting types, including Infernape to a certain extent. But if you want to be extra careful against Luke, current spread works fine too.

    I am not so sure about other possible changes. I found Scarfed Latios excellent against Sun Teams as it can for example outspeed and OHKO Venusaur in the Sun and generally has a pretty good typing to back it up against Sun threats. As an added bonus it can also revenge Stoutland in Sand as well as +2 Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados with SR support. Trick can be run to mess up CM Reuniclus. A VERY impressive revenge killer from my experience, but I can't really find a place for Latios on your team sadly.

    Deo-D is very annoying to face. Spinners are great to pack against those teams. How much does X-Scissor from Terrakion do to him?

    GL with the team!

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