Gen 6 Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion [Read Post #63]

[K Legacy]

Most Kyogre spam water spout. I said it CHECKS CHOICED kyogre, meaning by that it needs to be choiced into water spout/hydro pump.
In any case the only viable of the three will be volcanion, whom has multiple niches

What Minority Suspect meant was that if your opponent sees that your only kyogre switch in is volcanion then he will probaly go for thunder, even against a inexperienced player the second time kyogre comes in they will probaly click thunder, and your focrced to make 50/50 predictions on whether you go into volcanion or your electric resist/immunity.

 

[(PFC)nurideen]

What Minority Suspect meant was that if your opponent sees that your only kyogre switch in is volcanion then he will probaly go for thunder, even against a inexperienced player the second time kyogre comes in they will probaly click thunder, and your focrced to make 50/50 predictions on whether you go into volcanion or your electric resist/immunity.

Well at the time I didn't see that as I have already made a hypothetical volcanion team w/zerkrom whom resists both water spout and thunder.
You simply have to take kyogre into deeper consideration when teambuilding. A core of Zerkrom+Volcanion seems good on paper, although they are both weak to ground. Add skarmory to the core there and you have half a volcanion team already.Zerkrom deals with Ho-oh and Kyogre (both are problems for volcanion) Volcanion hits ground types assuming air balloon or scarf w/ a safe switch in?

 

[Thugly Duckling]

What Minority Suspect meant by the Dugtrio+Volcanion core is that a Kyogre user would have to face 50/50s by killing its own check with Thunder, but then facing the deadly consequences of letting Dugtrio boost all the way up to +6 with a Substitute up as well. The fact is that Volcanion will be a great "lure-check" to Kyogre by forcing Kyogre into using Thunder and essentially sacking itself so Dugtrio can sweep with Hone Claws+Substitute (only if Kyogre is Choice locked into Thunder). Splash Plate Kyogre anyone?

 

[Fireburn]

Splash Plate Kyogre anyone?

(Dugtrio sucks anyway)

 

[Inspirited]

Primal-Kyogre actually has no niche as of now. Choice sets will probably still outclass Primal-Kyogre; he'll actually need more than a 100 point SpA stat increase to be stronger than Specs Kyogre.

It could very well have a niche if it gets a significant Speed boost and any kind of Special Attack Boost as well as its new sig move which looks comparable to Psystrike. This is all speculation on a topic the OP doesn't cover though, so I think the primal ogre talk should end here :[

Back to Volcanion though; It looks it might have a small niche in hard walling Fairy walls much like Ho-Oh and punishing whatever will switch in next with Steam Eruption in hopes of burning whatever comes in. Ho-Oh also does this with its typing, bulk, and Sacred Fire, but Steam Eruption has the ability discourage other Fire-types from switching in to try and prevent the burn. This is a tiny niche, but a niche nonetheless but it is mostly (if not fully) overshadowed by Ho-Oh's ability to do this just as well if not better due to its ability to punish Fire-types with Earthquake or Brave Bird. Volcanion can situationally check Choiced Kyogre if it locks into Spout or Surf / Hydro Pump but will hard wall Specially Defensive Kyogre and Calm Mind Rest Talk variants; something Ho-Oh can never do. Unfortunately, it doesn't wall Palkia despite its typing and Water Absorb (Spacial Rend is always a 2HKO after Rocks and without if Palkia is holding Lustrous Orb or Specs; Specially Defensive Kia just uses Toxic). Its lack of recovery also sucks. All in all, it looks like it will fit specific teams, but Ho-Oh + Palkia / water resisting Arceus forme will usually be the superior option.

 

[mikelos]

i am fairly sure primal groudon might need an item to go primal

 

[Fireburn]

Reviving this thread because we got a lot of new info.

We got details on Diancie's Mega Evolution! It has the ability Magic Bounce and a stat spread of 50/160/110/160/110/110. It also gets Earth Power and Heal Bell from ORAS tutors!

Hoopa also has an alternate forme triggered by an unknown Key Item. It's typing changes to Psychic/Dark and its stats get boosted to 80/160/60/170/130/80. Because its an alt forme, it can hold items, and it gets a new signature move:

Hyperspace Fury - Dark Special - 100 BP, never misses, 5 PP.

Hoopa also gets tons of new Tutor moves like Knock Off/Gunk Shot/Elemental Punches/etc.

Discuss! Bear in mind that Hoopa is still not released yet, unlike Diancie.