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Die and go to Hail!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by BreloomMaster99, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. BreloomMaster99

    BreloomMaster99

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Okay, so this is actually my first ever Smogon post. But I have been a long time visitor for about a year now and I have a pretty good idea of the current OU metagame. I really have a certain love for Grass and Ice types, specifically Breloom and Abomasnow. So with that in mind, I went out to try to make a new OU team in the BW2 metagame using Hail. I climbed up to a rank of almost 1800 on the PS Server on my first night! It's a great team, so I decided I have to share it.

    Team Building Process:

    The first member of my team is of course, Obamasnow. He's on campaign right now to be elected President of Snow! And since he's the only auto-hail inducer, he's an automatic to a hail team.
    [​IMG]
    So then the next thought was obviousely who are the best abusers of hail in the current metagame. I had many ideas, Kyurem, Froslass, Mamoswine, Weavile, etc. I decided that Mamoswine and Froslass fit on the team, AND make use of the hail.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Okay so now I have my hail abusers and core, I really have to patch up the weaknesses. I wanted to make sure I had a good F/W/G core, especially since Mamoswine can take out the majority of dragons himself. So as my spinner, I decided to add Starmie, a Water/Psychic type.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Next, I needed to patch up the Fire weakness more, and have a good phazer at the same time. I wanted to complete the F/W/G core, and really there is only 1 good defensive Fire type, and he fits well on a hail team, Heatran!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The last pokemon was the hardest to choose. I was trying to make sure I outsped important threats like Genesect and Terrakion, giving me a chance to revenge/suprise Scarfers that really threaten my team. Thats when I decided a Latios fits the team!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now for the breakdown!

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (SamIam)
    248 HP 4 Def 252 SpD 4 Spe
    Snow Warning
    Calm Nature (+Spd, -Att)
    Leftovers
    Blizzard
    Leech Seed
    Substitute
    Protect
    Abomasnow is actually a very good special wall. This set is particularly effective against stall and rain teams. It helps keep Abomasnow, and therefore Hail in the battle longer. It's everything Abomasnow does best. Blizzard is because Abomasnow is the only pokemon who can summon and attack w/perfect Blizzard in one turn. Blizzard gives amazing coverage and has the small freeze chance. Leech Seed is really one of the best moves in the game, and even Abomasnow can use it to great effect, especially with Protect. Substitute so you can stall w/Hail and Leech Seed, and even scout a possible switch. Finally, Protect gives you scouting ability which is deadly important in some cases (Jirachi, Genesect, Terrakion, etc) so you know their held item.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine (Piggywhocould)
    252 Att 252 Spe 4 HP
    Thick Fat
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    Life Orb
    Ice Shard
    Earthquake
    Superpower
    Icicle Crash
    He'll huff, and puff, and sweep your whole team if you aren't careful! Mamoswine is an emerging OU Pokemon, who just keeps getting better and more important. He stops dragons, nabs important steels, hits hard and doesn't take prisoners. I used Thick Fat because I prefer the extra resistances instead of a 'maybe' 20% chance. Plus, it works as a suprise factor occasionally when someone uses HP Fire on Mamo (like on Magnezone). He really does a lot of work, him and Latios nab most of the kills.
    [​IMG]
    Froslass (Frosshax)
    248 HP, 8 SpD, 252 Spe
    Snow Cloak
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    Choice Scarf
    Substitute
    Spikes
    Blizzard
    Trick
    Froslass is a really underrated spiker, but put her in hail, and she'll amaze you. This set's primary purpose is to suprise and trick your choice scarf on their wall or potential sweeper (like volcarona) where they can be walled afterwards. Then shes free to Sub up, abuse Snow Cloak and lay those spikes! Blizzard for obvious STAB and Hail abuse. I often lead with Froslass to Trick something from the start and save her later for important kills or spikes. She has extra bulk so she can survive a hit after she's tricked something. It also makes a lot of OHKOs into 2HKOs, giving her more chances to sub up and abuse Snow Cloak.
    [​IMG]
    Heatran (Tranny)
    252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe

    Flash Fire
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    Air Balloon
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Roar
    Stealth Rock
    Heatran, the most dependable, longest lasting Truck on the Road. He'll lay Stealth Rocks so easily, there is no way I'd make Mamo do it. He forces tons of switches, so not only does he lay SR, he roars away scared mons, and potential calm mind sweepers. This set combines his specially defensive Roar/SR with his Offensive Fire Blast and Earth Power. This is important because my team needed a phazer, but stopping key pokemon like Scizor and Jirachi is an important job for Heatran.
    Starmie (Suck Me)
    [​IMG]
    Starmie (Suck Me)
    252 HP, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
    Natural Cure
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    Leftovers
    Scald
    Psyshock
    Recover
    Rapid Spin
    Starmie, always and forever the best Rapid Spinner. This pokemon does it all. If you haven't noticed by now, this team focused on positive speed natures. That's because in a fast-paced OU game, I need to be sure that my pokemon will attack first. Thanks to Emeral, I've made some changes to Starmie! This new bulky set is really what my team needed. It helps destroy bulky waters such as Tentacruel, Politoed, and Jelli that I was having trouble with before, and enabling Starmie to stay in the battle longer with Recover. Starmie also can take neutral hits better now, and can even take one unboosted Genesect u-turn!
    [​IMG]
    Latios (Laters)
    252 Sp A, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
    Levitate
    Timid Nature, (+Spe, - Att)
    Choice Scarf
    Draco Meteor
    Hp Fire
    Surf
    Psyshock
    Latios is my ace in the hole. This pokemon has many important resistances, especially grass/water/fire. When I need power and speed, I called upon the Demon of the Sky who says Laters! and ends your short life. Latios is great because as a scarfer, he has power AND speed. Draco Meteor is for when you just need to wall break. HP Fire, for those annoying Steel/Bug, Steel/Fire types, Surf 'cause aboosing Rain is fun too, ans Psyshock to catch Calm Minders and Terrakions with their pants down.

    All in all, a great team. There are some weaknesses, like a lack of resistance to Rock attacks, but there are ways are that (like Snow Cloak + poor accuracy). This is not a beginner's team, but it does work very well. Hail does much better in this meta then most people think, and there are 3 pokemon who use Blizzard on this team, and even two who use Water attacks against Rain users, and Latios uses HP Fire against Sun Teams. I've had a tougher time against Sand Teams and Sun Teams in general, but smart switches and getting up SR early is important.I will post the list of relevant OU threats and counters/check later!
  2. BreloomMaster99

    BreloomMaster99

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    OU Threats
    Levels of Threat
    Low Level Threat
    Normal Threat
    High Threat
    Extremely Large Threat
    [​IMG] Tyranitar: ​
    • Choice Band - Mamoswine is a check, otherwise careful switching and hits by Latios, Abomasnow, and Starmie. Especially if Starmie gets a scald burn.
    • Choice Scarf - Starmie, Mamoswine, and even Heatran can keep this Ttar in check. Abomasnow can come in and change the weather.
    • Dragon Dance - Mamoswine needs to hit him before he dances, otherwise, this TTar is a pretty big threat. Starmie is going to have to hope for a Scald burn + Heatran can probably get a Roar off.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Abomasnow comfortably comes in on Rotom and changes the weather. He can subseed and even if tricked and leech seed and switch to latios who walls Rotom.
    • Support - Latios and Abomasnow have an easy time with this Rotom, esp Aboma since the Subseed set really stops this Rotom cold.
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - Heatran can come in bar anything but Superpower and respond with a Fire Blast, Latios can use HP Fire, Starmie can scald. But the other 3 mons are really Scizor weak.
    • Swords Dance - This set wrecks my team. Especially if it has Superpower. If it has Roost, then Heatran can stop this set cold. Latios has a small chance at 100% health to come in on 1 SD and HP Fire the Scizor and kill it. He'll usually live with 5% Health.
    • Bulky Swords Dance - Not as dangerous, but still scary. Heatran stops this set though.
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band - Heatran does a great job walling if Air Baloon is intact, Mamo can Ice Shard, Latios can Draco Meteor.
    • Dragon Dance - Mamoswine can still beat it, given he's at a good health (over 60%). Latios can still Draco Meteor. Starmie and Abomasnow have chances at beating him too.
    • Mixed - Latios and Mamoswine are again the best bet. Starmie's scald helps a lot, Heatran can Roar him away.
    • Parashuffler - Easily stopped, this team doesn't mind Paralysis either.
    • Rain Abuse - With Abomasnow, Rain is rare, and this mon isn't a threat.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Only Focus Blast is a threat, and only if it hits. Otherwise Abomasnow can come in on whatever, absorb it, and Leech Seed. Latios and Starmie can also take a hit and Recover/Retaliate.
    • 3 Attacks - This one is tougher, he likes to use Ice Beam/Scald/Toxic, which hurts Aboma considerably. However, Abomasnow, Latios, and Rotom can play around him too, especially since he doesnt hit hard.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard - Starmie can Scald and use Recover to knock him down, and can also Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. Latios can Surf if HP is below 40-50%
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - Very tough set. Heatran can Roar out, Froslass can Trick his Choice Scarf, or better yet, Mamo can EQ.
    • Expert Belt - Really up to Starmie getting a Scald + Heatran using Fire Blast.
    • Choice Scarf - Starmie can come in on almost everything, and switch to counter.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - My Latios outspeeds + Draco Meteor. Heatran can wall it and Roar it out. Froslass can outspeed + Blizzard.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latios can try to win Speed Tie, Aboma can live a hit and Blizzard, provided they dont have HP Fire. Froslass can try to win Speed Tie also.
    • Calm Mind - Just scary. Relying on Froslass and Latios here.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind - Mamo can Icicle Crash + Earthquake. Just keep hitting it hard.
    • Offensive Trick Room - Can really do a number. Basically have to stall out Trick Room. Mamoswine and Abomasnow can really hurt Reuni, and Froslass can Trick it.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Double Dance -
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot -
    • Choice Specs -
    • Special Attacker -
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up -
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks -
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper -
    • Tinkerbell -
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance -
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    • Substitute + Swords Dance -
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance -
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split -
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb -
    • Rapid Spin -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance -
    • Choice Scarf -
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker -
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster -
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance -
    • Bulky Quiver Dance -
    • Chesto Rest -
    • Substitute -
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute -
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind -
    • Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer -
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Mixed -
    • Defensive -
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive -
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -
    • Substitute -
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Bulk Up -
    • Sub Seed -
    • Sub Punch -
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind -
    • Offensive Tank -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance -
    • Bulk Up -
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance -
    • Nasty Plot -
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind -
    • Swords Dance -
    • Dual Screens -
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Bulk Up -
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth -
    • Mixed Growth -
    • SubSeed -
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock -
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    • Agility -
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker -
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash -
    • Utility -
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker -
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor -
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Rain Abuser -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf -
    • SubSeed -
    • Mixed Attacker -
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    • Offensive Calm Mind -
    • Focus Sash -
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Dual Screens -
    • Lead -
    • Nasty Plot -
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker -
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash -
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass -
    • Shell Smash Sweeper -
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Rain Dance -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice -
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf -
    • Physical Attacker -
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Baton Pass -
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost -
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs -
    • Support -
    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance -
    • Substitute + Protect -
    • AcroBat -
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker -
    • Specially Defensive Spiker -
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive -
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker -
    • Specially Defensive Spiker -
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk -
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter -
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes -
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens -
    • Baton Pass -
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support -
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank -
    • Dual Screens -
    [​IMG] Swampert:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker -
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse -
    • Specially Defensive -
    • Physically Defensive -
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support -
    • Dual Screens -
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Bulky Spiker -
    • Toxic Staller -
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank -
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard -
    • Dual Screens -
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky -
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    • Prankster -
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Physically Defensive -
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster -
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support -

    Please give any suggestions and rates please!
  3. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,195
    Hey man nice hail team hail is an awesome but sometimes hard style of team to make so props for that!

    Firstly regarding your Froslass set Trick is an awesome move to suprise your opponents but may not be the perfect move for Froslass. Froslass has alot of weaknesses to common types like Steel, Fire, and Rock. After Tricking its Scarf you will often be at a low hp number so you can't get a Substitute. While you probally won't use Trick when your opponent is going for an attacking move a much safer way to be able to cripple sweepers is using Thunderwave>Trick This lets you still cripple sweepers but lets you pull of some serious hax with Substitute and Snowcloak. Without Trick Leftovers>Choice Scarf would be pretty obvious.

    Now regarding your Heatran set with no way of recovery and a more offensivly based ev spread he doesn't really make a good user of Roar. This can be changed by using Calm 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def>Timid 252 SpA / 4 Sp Def / 252 A more defensive set will let him abuse your entry hazards with Roar much easier. In this set i dropped Air Baloon for Leftovers because in hail whilst using roar you really need some sort of recovery. Lava Plume is also used instead of Fire Blast because of it's 30% burn rate. Alot of pokemon have a 4x weakness to fire so you really don't miss out on anything using Heatran.

    Also your team really needs a rock resist your team also seems weak to sand teams seeing as Tyranitar changes the weather from hail instantly, can threaten your team with rock type attacks and Pursuit-Trap Starmie and Latios. That is why Keldeo>Latios is a great change. Scarf Keldeo is an often overlooked revenge killer but he fits into this team perfectly. He provides a Rock-Type resist and he can threaten Tyranitar with Secret Sword and he also helps you combat rain and sand teams because of the power boost in Hydro Pump for rain whilst Hydro Pump in generall helps against sand teams. You don't lose to much without Latios as Keldeo stil provides a scarfer and a strong special attacker.

    Good Luck with the team i hope i helped.

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf | Justified
    Timid| 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hydro Pump| Secret Sword| Icy Wind| Hidden Power [Ghost] or [Electric]


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Froslass
    .Thunderwave--->Trick
    .Leftovers--->Choice Scarf

    Heatran
    . Calm 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def---> Timid 252 SpA / 4 Sp Def / 252 Spe
    .Lefotvers--->Air Baloon
    .Lava Plume--->Fire Blast

    Keldeo--->Latios



    ~Superpowerdude
  4. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    Hail team ! :O have to rate it !
    Your team looks pretty solids and I very like the using of Frosslass, this pokemon has a good speed and can be very annoying in the actual metagame due to its great ice type. Hail is unfortunatly underrated, but it is very effective once you get the hang of it. Your team is pretty standard for a hail team excepted Frosslass which gives to your team a special twist.

    Stealth rocks and spikes are the certainly the weak point of every hail team and it's why they always need a rapin spinner. Using Starmie as rapid spinner is a great choice but when I see your moveset, I wonder if this starmie can do this job very well cause of the lack of bulk and recovery move. I know this starmie allows you to beat Jellicent or do hudge dammage with Blizzard + Hail but I think that you could try a bulkiest version instead of this offensive moveset to remove with greater ease the SR/spikes. This Starmie will also gives you a more reliable check to Heatran mainly and bulky water that abomasnow can't handle very well because of Scald. Concerning its moves, Scald is the preferred Water-type STAB move on this Starmie, as it has a very useful chance of burning many prominent physically attacking Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar. Psyshock is the most usefull move for your team because it allows you to hit Fighting- and Poison-types such as Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Toxicroak, and Tentacruel which can be little problematic for your team. The HP EVs give Starmie as much overall bulk as possible, while the small Special Attack investment ensures that Starmie is able to OHKO Gengar.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin


    have fun and good luck with your team ! :)
  5. BreloomMaster99

    BreloomMaster99

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    I really like the suggestion of adding Thunder Wave to Froslass. I've use this set in the past. However, in this case I wanted something special to throw off my opponent, because nobody expects the trick/scarf. Same thing with my Heatran, there are a few threats he needs to outspeed so I have to have the Timid variation along with Roar. I do find his lack of recovery saddening sometimes, but I often pass Leech Seed from Aboma as a way to help.

    However your suggestion of Keldeo for Latios looks really good except for the lack of a dragon type move (my main reason for using Latios). I will test it out and see how that works, because a rock resist can be really useful in this meta. Ty superpowerdude!

    Finally, I will also test out your bulky Starmie, I think its exactly the fix I was looking for on my team. You are entirely right about my Starmie, I'm currently finding him not doing his job and often being the first to die on my team which is a big problem if I lose my spinner. So I will test out your bulky variation Emeral! Thanks!
  6. BreloomMaster99

    BreloomMaster99

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    So the Starmie is definitely on the team now, I'm planning on trying out the Heatran and Keldeo suggestions. Help me guys I need more rates! I want to know how this team can be improved :)

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