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Dimensional Repercussion (An Ubers Trick Room Team)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Enroyalle, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    Introduction:

    Hey there Smogon. I'm Enroyalle, and while I have only few posts, I've been around for awhile. I've recently been getting into the Generation 5 Ubers metagame, a very interesting one indeed. The Ubers metagame is a metagame without real balance (as it's supposed to be), with speedy and powerful threats like Psystrike Mewtwo running circles around any competition. With some inspiration from successful Generation 4 Ubers teams, I attempted a different approach to overcome these threats - Trick Room. Without further rambling, let's hit the books.

    Team Buliding Process (open)

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Dialga and Palkia are two Pokémon that can both reliably set up Trick Room and hit hard while it is set up. They also have great typing; Palkia being one of the best switch-ins to Kyogre and Dialga having some of the most useful resistances in the game, including Water, Electric, and Rock, among others.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Bronzong and Cresselia were the next added to the roster, forming a bulky support squad. Bronzong's plethora of resistances allows it to set up Trick Room with great ease, as well as packing a punch with Gyro Ball against the speedy attackers of Ubers, especially Mewtwo. Cresselia is very, very underrated, is incredibly bulky, is a great Trick Room supporter, and hard counters just about every Rayquaza set in the game.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The final two members of my team put on a huge twist - adding an element of sun to Trick Room extravaganza. If you'll all take a stroll down memory lane to a time not too long ago, the 18th of March, 2010. That date may not seem significant to many (if any) of you, but it was actually the release date of Eruption Heatran - Quiet natured Eruption Heatran, I should say. "How will Eruption Heatran ever be viable with a Quiet nature?" was the question of the day. With permanent sun via Drought and Trick Room support, Eruption Heatran becomes a complete hurricane to the current Ubers metagame. With the opponent's Lati@s, Kyogre, or Palkia weakened, Heatran can proceed to rip holes in the opponent's team. As if that weren't enough, Swords Dance Groudon can pick apart anything that survives. Menacing enough for you?


    The Team:

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Dialga @ [B]Lum Berry[/B]
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    - Trick Room
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    You can look at this Dialga like a Rain Dance Kingdra. It sets up for itself and then squishes anything that tries to counter it. Only two Pokémon will ever have a safe switch into this Dialga: Ferrothorn in the rain and Heatran. Heatran likely won't initially switch in due to the threat of Aura Sphere or even Earthquake, and if no weather / the sun is up, Ferrothorn is obliterated by Fire Blast. For these reasons, Dialga is almost guaranteed to inflict some serious damage on the opponent's team before going down. I often lead with Dialga to get some initial damage off on the opponent's team and setting the momentum in my favor with Trick Room.

    Life Orb was changed to Lum Berry do to the presence of Darkrai. This team currently lacks a sleep absorber, so this is my makeshift solution.

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Palkia @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe) / Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe) (?)
    - Trick Room
    - Outrage
    - Brick Break / Draco Meteor (?)
    - Thunder
    Palkia is in the same boat as Dialga in terms of sheer power. Palkia also functions as my primary switch into Kyogre; however, for this reason, I am very much open to switching my current offensive spread to something less offensive with more bulk. I have a few slashes for Quiet and Draco Meteor, as I haven't tested them out but they seem like they would make nice fits. Brick Break was originally put into the set for use against Blissey / Chansey and Ferrothorn, but between Heatran and Dialga, I can usually get the job done. This set likely needs some work and all help is appreciated.


    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room
    Bronzong functions as the primary defensive pivot for my team, as well as my Stealth Rock user. Bronzong's numerous resistances allow it many opportunities to switch in and set up Stealth Rock and/or Trick Room. Gyro Ball's primary use is against Mewtwo, while Earthquake is more or less a filler (although it does help against Dialga and the like). I originally had a more offensive spread, but Ubers threats hit much harder than those of OU, so a defensive variant seems to be the route to take. I do miss the extra bite against Mewtwo, though, so perhaps a compromise may be the most beneficial? Again, insight is much appreciated.


    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
    - Trick Room
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - [B]Lunar Dance[/B]
    Cresselia is a natural fit into this team. It can handle almost every Dragon-type in Ubers (the main exception being Dialga) between Ice Beam and Toxic, and Moonlight's normally shaky recovery style is much benefitted by Groudon's Drought. Cresselia functions as yet another Trick Room user, and while four Trick Room users may seem highly redundant, it's necessary to keep Trick Room up for as many turns as possible, because this team lacks a Choice Scarf user for outside Trick Room. Tyranitar and Scizor, Cresselia's primary counters, are both uncommon in the current Ubers metagame, and should they show up, Groudon and Bronzong can handle them.

    McBawse suggested to use Lunar Dance over Moonlight in order to give Heatran or Groudon a second chance at a sweep. It has worked out tremendously well!

    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    
    Groudon's sun isn't its only use. Groudon is a potent sweeper under Trick Room conditions, with Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake. Stone Edge is my best bet at beating Lugia with Groudon, although normally I'll just switch out to Bronzong, Heatran, or Cresselia. Sun-boosted Fire Punch beats Ferrothorn and Skarmory, although again, I have Heatran for them. For these reasons, I am considering an alternate set for Groudon, because I rarely get to set up a Swords Dance, anyway. Suggestions?


    [​IMG]
    Code:
    Heatran (M) @ Charcoal
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - [B]Hidden Power [Rock][/B]
    
    The sweeper. The star. The boss. The big kahuna. Whatever you want to call it, Heatran is makes this team what it is. Charcoal seems like an odd choice for an item, but in my book, a Choice item on a Trick Room team just causes unnecessary switching to burn Trick Room turns. I would use Life Orb, but obviously that would interfere with Eruption's power. With the Fire, Ground, and Ice types, Heatran can hit most of the Ubers metagame very, very hard. Heatran's biggest problems are Kyogre (handled by Palkia, for the most part) and opposing Palkia. But with those threats weakened or down, Heatran has little problem ripping the opponent's team to shreds with Trick Room up.

    Nubagator suggested using Hidden Power [Rock] over Ice due to Ho-Oh's dominance over my previous set. Although Hidden Power isn't used too often with either type, using Rock seems to be the better choice.

    A Final Glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Conclusion:
    Thanks for taking the time to read this. This teams needs some tweaking, so all rates and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Significant Threats (open)
    Palkia - Even the simple Choice Scarf sets can give me trouble. I lack a good switch-in. My best bet is playing smart between Bronzong, Dialga, my own Palkia. Getting it on the switch is my best bet.


    Importable (open)
    Dialga @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room

    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch

    Heatran (M) @ Charcoal
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Palkia @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Outrage
    - Brick Break
    - Thunder

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Moonlight
  2. I Am Doz

    I Am Doz

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    187
    Wise Glasses for Heatran? Boosts Special Attacking moves by 20%
  3. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    Actually, it's only 10%. Charcoal is a 20% boost to Fire-type moves, so it'll power up Eruption more than Wise Glasses would.
  4. Metal Bagon

    Metal Bagon

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,677
    OK, here is my proposal for your team.

    #1: Give Dialga or Palkia foucs sash. Both of those pokemon are very offensive meaning they are not bulky enough to take a big hit. Giving one a focus sash would ensure one of them getting trick room up. I'd recommend giving that to Dialga because he looks like your lead.

    #2: Give Dialga Stealth Rocks. If he is infact for lead, after setting up your trick room you should be fast enough to have the ability to set up rocks.

    #3: Give Palkia Draco Meteor over Thunder: Use Palkia's only Special attack for a big hit, then go with Outrage and Brick for close-to-perfect coverage. Leave Trcik Room on Palkia though.

    #3: Switch Stealth rocks off Bronzong for Hyponisis. Since Dialga should now have Rocks you don't need it on 'zong unless you are extremely scared of a rapid spinner (which are rare in ubers). For that matter, change Brozong entirely to the offensive trick room variant in its analyis.

    #4 Cresselia's wall set in her uber analyis could be better fitting for you team since you already have 3 pokemon with trick room, that should be enough. You can get reflect up to wall common offensive threats even more. Ice Beam is for damage (you already carry ice beam) and moonlight, which you also already have, can be used for recovery. I'd recommend that the filler should be either toxic (so you can tox stall) or MaThunder Wave (for parahax). However, since you have max sp.defence and HP magic coat wouldn't be doing too much to your opponents.


    Other than that your team looks really good. With orginal Heatran sets and an effective Heatran set. The only thing I'd worry about is not having a choiced item user but they are not compulsery on teams. Although I do like using one on each of my teams.
  5. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    @Metal Bagon

    1. Despite running offensive sets, both Palkia and Dialga are Ubers for more than just their offensive stats - Dialga carries 100 / 120 / 100 defensive stats, and Palkia 90 / 100 / 120. Both also have great defensive typing. It's not worth using a Focus Sash, both can take a hit.

    2. Using Stealth Rock on Dialga would use up a valuable move slot - all three attacking moves on Dialga are necessary for its function as a mixed wallbreaker.

    3. I've been considering Draco Meteor on Palkia, but moreso over Brick Break. Thunder allows me to check Kyogre much more efficiently.

    3 (the second one). Hypnosis is very, very unreliable, with a shaky 60% accuracy. Bronzong makes a better user of Stealth Rock due to its bulk and great defensive typing.

    4. Four 'mons with Trick Room may seem redundant, but it allows me to have Trick Room up almost all of the time. Cresselia's Trick Room acts a bit like a failsafe; due to its immense bulk, it can take almost any unboosted hit and set up a last-ditch Trick Room if necessary. Cresselia carrying Trick Room also allows me to play offensively with Dialga and Palkia, so I won't have to worry too much about keeping them alive solely for using Trick Room.

    In my opinion, it's inadvisable to use a Choice user (bar a Choice Scarfer if you're using it as an attacker outside of Trick Room) on a Trick Room team, because Choice users switch out very frequently, wasting valuable Trick Room turns.

    Nevertheless, thanks for the rate, I really appreciate it. I'll probably try Draco Meteor over Thunder on Palkia just to see how it fairs.
  6. whitesocks

    whitesocks

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    48
    Knowing little about ubers this gen. Enroyalle have you thought of Lunar dance on Cressy so Heatran can come in twice and use full powered eruptions?

    lawl.
  7. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    lol whitesocks taking McBawse's idea.

    It's a good one though. I'll be sure to test it out, along with Nubagator's suggestion of running HP Rock on Heatran for Ho-Oh.
  8. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Hi there, just a small nitpick: You may want to give hp rock on tran a try. I haven't calced against Ho-oh but it's a OHKO after rocks for sure. If you feel Rayquaza and chomp are that big an issue then meh, but both are handled fairly well by TR and Cress. It would make HO-Oh slightly less of a pain in general.
  9. whitesocks

    whitesocks

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    48
    Hey, he gave me permission... kind of.
    :D
  10. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
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    Made some changes after a bit of testing.
    Keep the rates coming!
  11. BKC

    BKC
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    Hi Rain,

    this is a pretty sweet team but CM + Taunt Mewtwo looks like a pain in the ass, since it stops Trick Room setup while simultaneously boosting and hitting hard. Another pretty nasty weakness is Nasty Plot Darkrai; if it comes in on Cresselia and Trick Room isn't up, it can grab +2 on the switch to Bronzong and unless you're above 70% (not likely since Zong has no recovery and it's switching into the likes of Groudon and Arceus), you're swept.

    I'd give SpDef Jirachi a shot over Zong. Their typing is identical and Rachi still learns Trick Room, so your synergy remains the same (minus one ground immunity but you've got Cress so it's no big deal), but Rachi has recovery and can counter both of these threats. By dropping Zong you lose your Stealth Rocker, but you can make Groudon a bulkier support set to make up for that. Anyways, here's the Rachi -

    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Sassy | 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Wish | Trick Room | Body Slam | Iron Head


    gl!
  12. Enroyalle

    Enroyalle

    Joined:
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    Will give it a try Kevin, thanks for the rate!

    I'll update this later with the results.
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Cool team, Enroyalle.

    If you don't seem to be making use of Swords Dance on Groudon, go with either Shadow Claw or Substitute. Shadow Claw lets you hit Giratina-O for super effective damage, while also hitting Lugia if it happens to switch in. Another option is Substitute - if the opponent is stalling out TR, Substitute would force them to keep in a mon to break the Substitute.

    I also find Bronzong rather underwhelming. I'd go with specially-defensive Jirachi that BKC has suggested. Otherwise, I'd possibly give Bronzong Choice Band and Trick > SR / EQ. With Choice Band, it will be denting Mewtwos, and Trick can ruin special sweepers.

    I'd suggest Aura Sphere on Palkia to prevent it from becoming Ferrothorn bait, while not being walled by Heatran; Outrage already does plenty of damage to Chansey, so Brick Break is an overall inferior option.

    Draco Meteor does come in handy against Groudon, however, so test either option.

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