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Diplomacy #3 - Postgame

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Bass, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
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    Hello, you are now reading the Diplomacy #3 postgame!

    Final Map (Winter 1912):

    [​IMG]

    1. Mekkah - Germany
    2. askaninjask - England - (Eliminated Spring 1906)
    3. imperfectluck - Austria
    - (Eliminated Fall 1907)
    4. LonelyNess - Italy

    5. Earthworm - Turkey
    6. Outlaw - France (WINNER)
    7. Kannon - Russia - (Eliminated Fall 1909)

    Just like with the previous game, I will now rank each of the players based off of mostly my personal opinion. Again, I don't have a collection of fitting pictures like Outlaw does, so I will use what I think is fitting. Now, let us get on with the actual analysis, shall we?

    (Note: Images are taken from random newscasts from the given player)

    7. Kannon - Russia

    [​IMG]


    Now, I know, Kannon lasted far longer than some of the other players here, however, I felt his play was by far the worst. To be fair, he was one of the least experienced players in this game, but it really showed. The first big mistake he made was trying to wrestle with England over the rights to Norway (and pretty much every experienced Diplomacy player knows that Norway should go to England in 1901). Instead, he should have tried to get Sweden and establish an alliance with England. Because of this, he was eventually overtaken by Germany in Scandinavia. Admittedly, his demise in the south was mostly due to ipl's reckless playing, but I still have to say that you have a lot to learn. You at least went down with pride, though!

    6. askaninjask - England

    [​IMG]

    Oh askaninjask. You were one of the more experienced players, but yet you were destroyed so easily. I partially blame Kannon for blocking you out of Norway in 1901, as you needed another fleet to adequately defend yourself from a combined French and German onslaught. Still, I think you should have at least made more effort to negotiate with Kannon early on. You also didn't put a big enough of a fight to defend yourself from France's landfall, but overall I will still argue that you ended up the way you did due to bad luck more so than bad playing.


    5. crabnebula / imperfectluck - Austria
    [​IMG]

    As Austria, crabnebula played it about as generically as one would expect, and managed to develop quite well thanks to an excellently formed alliance with Italy and Russia against Turkey. However, CN had to leave early on and was replaced by imperfectluck, who lacked experience. Nevertheless, he was set on applying his infamous mafia play-style to Diplomacy. While ipl would eventually become the strongest player in terms of centers midgame, he backstabbed every last one of his allies to do it. ipl's biggest mistake was that he didn't realize that in order to succeed in Diplomacy, you would need a lasting alliance, ESPECIALLY in the case of Austria. Ultimately he was eaten up by a united attack from all of the people he stabbed, and successfully became the single most hated player in the game. Maybe that was what he wanted in the end, though.

    4. porygon3 / LonelyNess - Italy
    :(

    porygon3, although having equivalent experience to Kannon, played about as well as he possibly could while he was still playing. He managed to maintain a long lasting Austrian alliance that really gave him the potential for growth later in the game. However, like CN, he had to take a leave, so he was subbed out for LonelyNess. Thankfully, p3 left him every single game-related IRC log to read. While he was inevitably stabbed by ipl, he still managed to turn the tables on him thanks to a surprising alliance with the battered Turkey, and at one point controlled most of the Mediterranean sea. Unfortunately, this left him vulnerable to the power hungry France in the North, and ultimately shifted the balance of power of his alliance to Turkey, who pretty much controlled his units by the time Italy was completely conquered by France.

    3. Mekkah - Germany
    [​IMG]

    Although Mekkah was new, he ended up outlasting most other players thanks to an alliance with the mighty Outlaw. Honestly, I am not quite sure why he chose to ally himself with Outlaw over askaninjask since he was the strongest player, but nevertheless, he managed to obtain a whopping 10 centers before he was unsurprisingly stabbed. Even though a lot of them resulted form Outlaw's help, it's still a significant accomplishment considering that he was new. However, he lost a lot of potential due to the stab, and even with Earthworm's help, he came to the conclusion that he could not possibly win (The best he could do was stall France until being eventually overtaken by Turkey). So, being tired of fighting, he essentially surrendered his centers to Outlaw. Personally, I think Earthworm was right in that he should have at least made an effort to win (though the odds weren't really in his favor). But overall, I have to commend him for making it as far as he did.


    2. Earthworm - Turkey

    [​IMG]

    The Comeback kid, sort of. Like Outlaw, Earthworm has won a diplomacy game on this site in the past. However, his neighbors quickly ganged up on him and almost eliminated him early. Not to give up, however, he lingered on, waiting for an opportunity to make a comeback, and it came once imperfectluck became the center of attention. He would then engineer the united assault against him, dividing up most of ipl's centers between him and Italy, his new and permanent ally. When Outlaw was on the verge of winning, he would lead a united alliance once again, coming up with the orders for both Italy and Germany. Had Mekkah continued to cooperate, Earthworm would have probably been the victor after MANY turns later. Indeed, the game would have been more interesting this way, but in reality it would have a taken a very long time, and a lot of patience.

    1. Outlaw - France

    [​IMG]

    After begging me to be France or England, Outlaw got his wish granted. Being the most experienced player, Outlaw quickly established "alliances" with England and Germany, he ultimately feared that askaninjask would be a threat if he wasn't eliminated quickly, and thanks to German support (and Russian interference), he succeeded. Outlaw knew that Mekkah wouldn't keep a blind eye to his increasing power, so he smartly made several concessions to Germany in order to keep his trust (appeasement if you will). However, Outlaw had to stab him eventually, and had a difficult time deciding when. Once Germany achieved 10 centers, Outlaw believed that he had no choice but to stab him there and then, or else it would have been too difficult otherwise. However, as Outlaw feared, he was eventually stalled, and even pushed back, by an alliance of the three remaining powers, led by Earthworm. Indeed, he might have lost if Earthworm was successful, but Germany ultimately gave up in the end, securing him his victory. Needless to say, I wasn't surprised by his victory.

    Awards:

    Best Newscasts: Outlaw (for referencing Pierre Escargot, Stephen Colbert, AND the Spy from TF2)

    Biggest Comeback: Earthworm (for reasons explained above)

    Biggest Backstabber: imperfectluck

    Most Determined Player: Kannon

    Commentary:

    Overall, I am glad that this was the first Diplomacy game on this site to actually reach a conclusion. As I intended, nobody forfeited (not even LonelyNess) or formed a permanent alliance. However, there were several bumps along the way which I wasn't proud of, such as incorrect orders in my updates, and bad images (though this was mostly due to imageshack sucking). I never expected to host one of these games myself since unlike Outlaw or Earthworm (the previous hosts), I am not really a stellar Diplomacy player myself.

    And that's about all I have left to say, I guess!
  2. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Earthworm is likely furious at me for staying with Outlaw for so long, but the truth is that I much preferred working with someone who I knew would keep promises as long as it was a two way street than forge multiple long term alliances and wait to be backstabbed. Also, protip to Earthworm, if you want me to cooperate don't say things like "your orders aren't very good" and "your position sucks =("...even if I would listen to you at the moment I am likely not to favor you if I am forced in a position like this lategame!

    I did not expect Outlaw to rape me the turn he did because he had no competitive reason to. I was glad he did though, because it gave me a reason to return fire...I didn't really want to throw the first stone myself.

    Before that, I agreed with CN and p3 to leave the lands between us empty. I don't think I promised aska much, we just steamrolled him. Me and Outlaw had a threeway agreement with Kannon about the division of England, Scandinavia and northern Europe, but since I needed some place to expand I ended up waltzing over Scandinavia.

    I'll be fair and admit that throughout pretty much the entire game, I let Outlaw (and at the end Earthworm for a bit) come up with the orders. They both have a better grasp of what you can and can't do on the map, though this obviously has the disadvantage that you become dependent on other players. I envisioned the endgame to become a race between Outlaw and me for the last few centers, but it seems nobody else wanted it like that!

    What else is there to say? ipl played infuriatingly and got what was coming to him. Outlaw's newscasts were awesome but so were mine. :(

    I probably won't play the next game. I don't have any experience at all, but I think it comes down too much to kingmaker positions (like I was in - either let Outlaw or Earthworm win, no real option for myself to win)...that or what the previous games had, an alliance stomping all over the game with a tie in the end, or one of the players eating everyone else with ease.

    I did have fun though. Outlaw is great to work with. Kinda wish I didn't have such a central position on the map for my first game.

    Thanks for hosting Bass!
  3. porygon3

    porygon3

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    Italy is the worst country ever :(

    Mekkah imo you weren't that bad but Outlaw pretty much had this game won by like 1902 mostly because of your alliance with him and I knew you were not likely to stab him. The way the board ended up at the end of 1901 (weak England and allied Germany) France is probably going to win or at least come close because nobody can touch him for a while. I really wanted to convince you to attack him early on but I didn't think you would, and would probably just tell him I said that and then kill me.

    I think if I had known you two were going to ally against England I might have moved to Piedmont in Spring 1901 (askaninjask asked me to do that), but without knowing that it wouldn't be a good idea. Outlaw was in a pretty good position (good job) there was really no way for anyone to stop him except for what you all tried to do near the end.

    Also sorry Earthworm I couldn't really do much while I was alive besides attacking you, Italy is pretty useless :(

    I wish CN didn't sub out, me him and Kannon had a pretty good alliance imo. We could have gone awhile without needing to stab each other because even after killing Turkey we can all go in different directions

    Anyway thanks for hosting Bass and everyone else for playing
  4. Earthworm

    Earthworm
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    I'm not really sure why I have earned the image of being sneaky or untrustworthy in Diplomacy! Maybe it's just the 'mocking' smileys and stuff I use that make people feel I'm not trustworthy or not serious or whatever.

    Well, thanks to being pressured by imperfectluck who was only out for himself at every point in the game (he didn't bother with real alliances, everything he did was purely for his own benefit) I ended up really small at the beginning while ipl didn't listen to me at all beyond one thing (which just neutralised Kannon for 'my' benefit) and just went for maximum expansion as early as he could, which led to every person in the game attacking him except like askaninjask since he was already doomed. I think if he had gone for a slower and more defensively solid expansion we would have clashed with Outlaw and Mekkah at a later point and we probably could have overcome them with some correct predictions.

    Obviously that wasn't going to happen with imperfectluck's attitude and I ended up severely crippled. I stabbed imperfectluck back as hard as I could, and with help from LonelyNess who had subbed in for p3, I managed to regain some of what I had lost. Due to him later being assaulted by Outlaw, I grew again as I was the only one of us able to build. The alliance between Mekkah and Outlaw then led to an alliance between Kannon, LonelyNess, and myself to hold off Mekkah and Outlaw until they (hopefully) stabbed each other. This went very well since Outlaw did eventually stab, and even better it was at the point where Mekkah and possibly broken through at one point where we were kind of hopeful that we'd be able to hit back. Also, honourable mention to Outlaw for not taking imperfectluck's free victory thing where he wanted to 'end the game as fast as possible'.

    At this point, an alliance between Mekkah, LN, and I formed against Outlaw to stop him from winning, but it turned out this was fairly pointless since Mekkah gave up due to being sandwiched even though I offered him an alliance until Outlaw had been completely vanquished (which I didn't intend to break!) and just moved West, giving Outlaw an unstoppable chance at victory, which he gladly took.

    I was intending to attack Mekkah within the next couple of years (until he made the initial stab back on me, at which point I saw that my only chance was to make a semi-permanent agreement with him), probably when I had gotten back part of Italy, which would have made the final duel between Mekkah + Outlaw (presumably) and LonelyNess + I much more interesting than it was in 1912.

    Nevertheless, congratulations to Outlaw! It was fun playing against you and all the others (including Mekkah, the newcast was [mostly] a joke) despite me getting stabbed repeatedly and whining about it! Thanks to Bass for being a good host, as you were around very often and handled everything appropriately. Outlaw made a mistake in his game (the F Picardy thing) and didn't even bother fixing it!
  5. Outlaw

    Outlaw

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    Well lets see here, I suppose I should just go through everyone to start with..

    CN: I was really quite unaware of him pressuring p3 to go after me even though it could have been disastrous if p3 had listened because then I would have to split my forces. Thats all about him I have to say really, since he left so early and since I didn't really have anything to do with his hemisphere except making sure he kept ew subdued.

    P3: Like I did with everyone else I bordered, I asked him if he would keep piedmont a DMZ. He did, much to my happiness. That was about it really, he was gone before I could make an intial stab against him. Truth be told, I was going to stab Mekkah before I stabbed him simply because Italy is so tough to crack and me and Kannon had earlier gossiped about pinching Germany between ourselves. But it was not meant to be.

    Askaninjask:
    Ah Aska..we could have been best of buds! But no, because the tune of your reply to my pm wasn't as warm as I had hoped I had to forgo three builds just to block you. Which made me quite upset =( Fortunately, I convinced Mekkah that you wouldn't let him build fleets and would be the far bigger threat than myself with armies on the mainland and fleets at his major sea entrance. So you got the short straw and ended up being the member of our hemisphere that would be the odd man out. (Which strangely didn't happen on the other side of the board..)

    IPL: The most unpredictable player on the board. I was none to pleased when you joined the game. And I was right for having those feelings since you let ew out of his cage and crippled Kannon so that I could not use him further like I had planned. Nevertheless, once you were outright destroyed you did help me quickly dismantle the Italian home centers and offered to give me the easy win. I don't know why you didn't try to back stab me too but I was happy you didn't.

    LN: Oy vey, another hitch in the plan that I had not expect. Well you were the bigger threat so I had to stab you before I stabbed Mekkah. If I recall correctly, I pretty much stabbed you just as you got a hold in Austrian soil which was good timing for me. IPL used his wayward fleet to help me quickly dismantle your unprotected centers. I was worried when ew didn't outright regain everything you had taken on your way to Austria but in the end it didn't matter. Hopefully if we ever play again I won't be next to you cause I know you will do all that you can to destroy me.

    Kannon:
    Man what happened to you? D: We had plans! I must thank you for stalling Aska though, really made that campaign all the more easier. Other than that you made some poor move choices which really hampered yourself. Once ew got onto your land I pretty much stopped talking to you because I knew you couldn't really help me any further until the end where I unfortunately gave you wrong orders. I should have had you block ew, but I didn't know he would go for such a all out moveset that could have netted him nothing.I really wish you had survived so that you and I could have divided Germany. (Before I devoured you myself ;P)

    Earthworm:
    How fitting you were opposite me on the board. From the beginning I talked to everyone surrounding you to keep you in check. I did not want you to break free of your initial three centers and at best I wanted you to be the first one eliminated from your hemisphere. And it would've worked too if it wasn't for IPL! You were the person I feared the most, and for good reason. Once LN came to your aid, I knew you were going to be a thorn in my side once more. Although, I was surprised that you resisted to urge to capitalize on LNs folly campaign against me and Kannons own weakness to reinforce your own ranks until the very end. I was secretly hoping you would take his centers and weaken him inadvertently for me by that point but you were far to wily for that. If Mekkah hadn't of sided with me at the end I would have had to endure a long and boring game until you could eventually break into ION. You were a great opponent.

    Mekkah:
    Comrade! I really didn't want to keep you around as long as I was forced too, but LN entering the mixed made me rethink my initial choice. We did work well together though I must say. I was thinking you would stab me first in those early years once we had destroyed England. I was never going to give up Lon/Lvp (I forget which) though =P You should know, I really didn't want to stab you when I did, unfortunately if I went through with the orders I originally told you, I would be three steps behind when the time came and you probably would have been able to foresee it and plan accordingly with whoever was left. Very unfortunate timing on both parts. If only those moves against ew/ln had worked. I wouldn't have had to put up with you walling me and each of us playing musical chairs with your centers + NTH. I did have a fail safe in 2 unneeded armies though just in case. And I did have to cash them in. Fortunately you decided I should win and I am forever indebted to you for that.

    As for my overall plan, I was going to eliminate aska first regardless if he allied with me or not. I was hoping to have him and Mekkah at each others throats. But eh oh well. I was going to save Italy for my last stretch of centers too but that didn't work out either. Neither did my plan to have Italy/Austria/Russia destroy and or contain Turkey. None of my plans ever finished to their conclusion! In fact, if ew hadn't have been weak for so long I probably would not have won!

    Lastly, I thank Bass for hosting this wonderful game. I hope to see more Diplomacys in the future with new fresh meat to lie to.

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