1. The moderators of this forum are Da Letter El, Blazade, shade, UncleSam, and zorbees.
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Diplomacy Again Winter 1914 - Bass (France) wins!

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Earthworm, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. Earthworm

    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Championis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

    Nov 3, 2007
    Spring 1914


    France: Fleet Adriatic Sea SUPPORT Army Trieste
    France: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Constantinople
    France: Army Albania SUPPORT Army Budapest -> Serbia
    France: Army Belgium HOLD
    France: Army Budapest -> Serbia
    France: Fleet Edinburgh SUPPORT Fleet London -> North Sea
    France: Fleet English Channel SUPPORT Army Belgium
    France: Army Finland -> Norway (*bounce*)
    France: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Turkish Army Bulgaria
    France: Fleet Ionian Sea -> Aegean Sea
    France: Fleet London -> North Sea (*bounce*)
    France: Army Marseilles -> Piedmont
    France: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Venice -> Tyrolia
    France: Army Paris -> Burgundy
    France: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Budapest -> Serbia
    France: Army Venice -> Tyrolia
    France: Fleet Western Mediterranean -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean

    Germany: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Fleet Norway -> North Sea
    Germany: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Vienna -> Budapest
    Germany: Fleet Holland SUPPORT Fleet North Sea -> Belgium
    Germany: Army Kiel -> Ruhr
    Germany: Army Moscow -> Sevastopol
    Germany: Fleet North Sea -> Belgium (*bounce*)
    Germany: Fleet Norway -> North Sea (*bounce*)
    Germany: Army Rumania SUPPORT Army Serbia -> Bulgaria
    Germany: Army Serbia -> Bulgaria (*bounce, destroyed*)
    Germany: Army Sevastopol -> Armenia
    Germany: Army St Petersburg -> Norway (*bounce*)
    Germany: Army Tyrolia -> Munich (*bounce, dislodged*)
    Germany: Army Vienna -> Budapest

    Turkey: Fleet Black Sea HOLD (*no order*)
    Turkey: Army Bulgaria HOLD (*no order*)
    Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean HOLD (*no order*)


    Germany: Army Tyrolia -> Vienna


    Supply Centers
    France: 17
    Germany: 13
    Turkey: 4

    It is now Fall 1914. Fall 1914 will end 16 hours from this edit time if I haven't received all orders by then.
  2. Earthworm

    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Championis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

    Nov 3, 2007
    Fall 1914


    France: Fleet Adriatic Sea SUPPORT Army Trieste
    France: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Smyrna
    France: Army Albania SUPPORT Army Serbia
    France: Army Belgium HOLD
    France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Belgium
    France: Fleet Constantinople SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea -> Smyrna
    France: Fleet Edinburgh SUPPORT Fleet London -> North Sea
    France: Fleet English Channel SUPPORT Army Belgium
    France: Army Finland -> Sweden
    France: Fleet Greece HOLD
    France: Fleet London -> North Sea
    France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> North Atlantic Ocean
    France: Army Munich -> Berlin
    France: Army Piedmont -> Tyrolia
    France: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Trieste
    France: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Serbia
    France: Army Tyrolia -> Munich

    Germany: Army Armenia -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Army Budapest -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Fleet Denmark CONVOY Army Rumania -> North Africa
    Germany: Army Galicia -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Fleet Holland CONVOY Army Ruhr -> North Africa
    Germany: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Armenia -> North Africa (*dislodged*)
    Germany: Fleet Norway CONVOY Army St Petersburg -> North Africa
    Germany: Army Ruhr -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Army Rumania -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Army Sevastopol -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Army St Petersburg -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)
    Germany: Army Vienna -> North Africa via convoy (*no convoy*)

    Turkey: Fleet Black Sea HOLD (*no order*)
    Turkey: Army Bulgaria HOLD (*no order*)
    Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean HOLD (*no order*)


    Germany: Fleet North Sea -> Skagerrak <- I picked the one with the coolest name


    Supply Centers
    France: 21
    Germany: 11
    Turkey: 2

    From France: La Marseillaise
    Allons, enfants de Patrie,
    Le jour de gloire est arrive;
    Contrenous de la tyranne,
    L'etendard sanglant est leve,
    L'etendard sanglant est leve,
    Entendezvous, dans les campagnes,
    Mugir ces feroces soldats?
    Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras,
    Egorger nos fils, nos compagnes.
    Aux armes, citoyens!
    Formez vos bataillons!
    Marchons, marchons!
    Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons!



    From Germany: We interrupt this excessively dull speech to announce the following:


    From France (cont.):
    Amour Sacre de la Patrie,
    Conduis, soutiens, nos bras vengeurs.
    Liberte, liberte cherie
    Combats avec tes defenseurs!
    Combats avec tes defenseurs!
    Sous nos drapeaux, que la victoire
    Accours a tes males accents!
    Que tes ennemis expirants
    Volent ton triomphe et notre gloire.
    Aux armes, citoyens!
    Formez vos bataillons!
    Marchons, marchons!
    Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons!

    Nous entrerons dans la carriere
    Quand nos aines n'y seront plus.
    Nous y trouverons leur poussiere
    Et la trace de leurs vertus,
    Et la trace de leurs vertus,
    Bien moins jaloux de leur survivre
    Que de partager leur orguiel
    De les venger ou de les suivre.
    Aux armes, citoyens!
    Formez vos bataillons!
    Marchons, marchons!
    Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons!

    PS, the DKC Soundtrack is nothing special.

    billymills (Germany) has lost.

    Congratulations to Bass (France) on winning Diplomacy Again (Anonymous Edition)!
  3. Earthworm

    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Championis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

    Nov 3, 2007
    Diplomacy Again (Anonymous Edition) Postgame

    Posted literally two seconds after the end of the game!

    Country Assignment

    Some people PMed me with preferences, so I kept randomising until I came up with a set of assignments that looked somewhat like the preferences, and tried to stop people from being countries they had been on Smogon before.

    England: Accent -> Aura Guardian (Fall 1902)
    France: Bass
    Germany: billymills
    Russia: imperfectluck -> tredge (Spring 1905)
    Austria: LonelyNess
    Italy: Outlaw
    Turkey: askaninjask

    Game Summary

    The game opening basically involved Germany taking an immediately hostile stance against France, England playing in self-interest, France playing for an Anglo-French alliance, Russia playing anti-Austria (pro-Italy and pro-Turkey), Turkey playing for a Juggernaut, Italy playing pro-Russia, and Austria playing conservatively and without contacting anyone at all. Austria's opening moves weren't bad, but unfortunately his complete lack of negotiations meant that Austria was wiped out almost immediately by all of its neighbours.

    imperfectluck was in an excellent position early on, but as he learnt from previous games, getting too big too quickly can sometimes become a hindrance rather than a blessing. He chose to betray neither of his allies (strictly speaking) and instead allowed them to fight it out, while being forced back by England and Germany. France expanded quickly and England remained very small early game, while Germany maintained solid growth. All three of Russia, Italy, and Turkey had achieved access to spoils in Austria, and therefore had an impressive size early on.

    Spring 1903 left Russia in a terrible Northern position, both Germany and England being at his doorstep. Bass had made it onto the English home turf with an army, and begun to take it over while remaining in a solid position on its other borders. Italy was beginning to have trouble expanding further due to Russia's neutrality, and Russia's neutrality and failure in the North led to Russia losing some of its impressive initial growth. Russia had basically stopped sending or reading any messages, and had chosen to go with the Juggernaut with Turkey. Meanwhile, the English-German alliance allowed Germany to expand, and France continued to grow.

    England continued to be used by Germany as a method of achieving greater expansion, while France continued to eat at England's back. The juggernaut alliance maintained Southern dominance as Italy begun to take heavy hits in its Austrian supply centers. The game looked like it would turn into Germany versus the Juggernaut if the fighting between Germany and France continued, and so France and Germany came to an agreement to stop their war in 1905, at the same time the new Russia tookover from imperfectluck (tredge).

    Germany and France both took some advantage out of their alliance, and England continued to be used as a tool for their expansion. Bass played it smartly and obeyed billymills' requests early on, seeing that he had the ability to negotiate with Italy having not attacked him yet, and since he would essentially have the South to himself as long as their alliance outlasted the Juggernaut, given Germany's Northern concentration. France and Italy worked together to prevent Turkey's entry into the Ionian Sea, meaning that Turkey was slowed down for an extremely long time. Meanwhile, Russia was fighting a losing battle in the North and was beginning to cop losses near Warsaw.

    France tookover Germany again supply center-wise, and the German-French-English alliance continued to flourish, with England eventually being removed once it was no longer needed. Outlaw suffered a similar, and expected, fate at the hands of Bass once he was in total control of the fight against Turkey. The juggernaut failed to achieve a planned Southern stalemate line, and then continued to be dominated by the French-German alliance until the end.

    France, being a few centers ahead of Germany due to having an easier area to expand into, took the opportunity to stab Germany near the end. billymills couldn't hold off Bass long enough to stop him from overcoming his line of defense, allowing Bass to reach a total of twenty-one centers and win the game. Congratulations Bass (France)!

    Individual Player Ratings

    #7: LonelyNess - Austria

    I've already said a bit about LonelyNess' play. He talked to nobody in Spring 1901 and his only message was 'I'm going to win', for which he received every neighbour short of Germany surrounding him and absolutely crushing him in Fall. By the time he tried to negotiate (read: threaten) his assailants, they had already made agreements in Spring 1901 to split him up piece by piece. It's probably worthy of note that imperfectluck succeeded in provoking him into a self-detrimental series of moves in Fall. LonelyNess did poorly in this game.

    #6: Accent / Aura Guardian - England

    England played almost solely with self-interest early on, while Accent was playing. He kept his options open but his indecisiveness led to a slow start, and it never picked up. He soon ran out of time for the game, and Aura Guardian subbed into a three center England, which never got any bigger. Aura Guardian did do quite a lot of negotiation and tried to pull all the smaller powers together against the bigger ones, which succeeded to an extent, but never resulted in self-growth. Instead, it resulted in growth for Germany and France, and England's eventual demise once his use had run out. Overall, England was not successful even though the play was half-decent.

    #5: Outlaw - Italy

    Outlaw had an impressive opening which resulted in a 5 center Italy at the conclusion of 1901, and he looked set for further expansion and an eventual attack on France. However, his efforts were to little avail since his ally Russia chose to turn on him in favour of assisting Turkey to a Juggernaut. I did accidentally reveal the identity of Outlaw to imperfectluck when imperfectluck said something like 'So has Outlaw something something' to me and I replied 'yeah Outlaw something something', so I'm sorry about that, though I don't think it changed anything. Bass came to Italy's aid, but Bass eventually extinguished the last of Outlaw's troops to continue his growth once Turkey was under control. Overall, I think Outlaw played well and did what he could, but it doesn't show in the result.

    #4: askaninjask - Turkey

    askaninjask also had an impressive opening, becoming a large Turkey early on. He decided to trust Russia and allowed him into the Black Sea, something he didn't ever regret. He managed to convince Italy not to perform a Lepanto opening, only to stab him later (though he had few expansion options). However, Turkey's expansion was stopped cold at the Ionian Sea, where he could not stop the French and Italian fleets from blocking his access to the Italian centers. This meant that other countries expanded while askaninjask didn't, and he was eventually forced back and forfeited. askaninjask perhaps should have encouraged Russia to attack Germany and Italy earlier to allow the invasion of Italy earlier, but overall, his play was not bad.

    #3: imperfectluck / tredge - Russia

    imperfectluck was yet another effective opener, and he quickly became an 8 center power early on, forming agreements with Italy and Turkey with regard to splitting up Austria, and taking Norway from England early on. He then chose to cease his expansion in favour of waiting until he had an ally to expand with, which I assume was to prevent everyone from ganging up on him in the case that he became too large too early. Unfortunately, he soon lost ground in the North after a very bad turn, and this led to him being crippled for the remainder of the game after he lost StP to Germany and England. He chose to go with Turkey against Italy, but Turkey was slow to expand, and with troubles in the North, Russia was not in control anymore. tredge took over in 1905 and tried to continue the Juggernaut alliance, but it got nowhere in the face of the German-French alliance, which, after a long period of stalling, led to Russia losing his last home centers before the conclusion of the game. An amazing early game turned to an unimpressive midgame, and an unimpressive lategame, unfortunately for Russia. Overall, I think with the successful opening that Russia could have been a dominating force, but this wasn't achieved by the players.

    #2: billymills - Germany

    billymills had one of the least convincing openings success-wise (the others being Austria and England), though he quickly recovered from his failed attempt to take out France and formed a solid base around which to expand. He did succeed in negotiating with Accent, and so Accent opened to the English Channel, however their agreements did not land them much success besides control over who got Belgium (which Germany managed to negotiate eventual access to, after a deal with France). Germany continued to take advantage of the weak England and used him to expand further into St. Petersburg, and launched surprise attacks using the Baltic Sea as a convoy route directly against Russia. Germany also executed a successful invasion into France (though later than he originally planned), but by this point, the Juggernaut alliance was beginning to look too strong for Germany to risk going for a solo. billymills and Bass manipulated each other into helping each other out and billymills managed to get the French army on the English mainland into Scandinavia and used it as insurance against France reaching 18 centers at any point in the future. He allowed Bass to take Paris back after some negotiations, and their alliance flourished against the Juggernaut, with Bass being more successful in expanding than billymills, partially due to him being slowed down for a long time trying to invade Warsaw and Moscow. The ineffective expansion was costly, and Bass took the opportunity to stab billymills to take the victory at the end after the Juggernaut had been eliminated.

    #1: Bass - France

    Bass didn't have the best ever early game, but it was solid and achieved what it needed to. He took the right risks and hung in there diplomacy-wise even while being invaded by Germany. Bass managed to negotiate his way to a six center France despite the openings of both England and Germany being somewhat anti-French through his negotiations involving Belgium, though he lost this to the English-German alliance that then formed. Luckily, the force on the other side of the board played to his favour, and he managed to alert billymills to the danger of attempting to solo, creating an alliance out of enemies. He then expanded out through Italy and finished off England with help from Germany. Bass' endgame was very effective, and Bass remained out in front with the supply center count, partially thanks to Germany getting stuck trying to take the Russian home centers. Bass saw he had an opportunity now that he had pulled a significant lead and that Turkey seemed to have given up the ghost, meaning there couldn't be an alliance to stop him from winning. Bass confirmed this with askaninjask and stabbed on the same turn that Turkey forfeited, and although the stab was partially anticipated by billymills, the precautions taken weren't enough to stop Bass from then making the required predictions to seal his victory. Well done, Bass! Congratulations!


    Overall, I'd say this game had a higher quality of play than each of the previous games on Smogon so far. I was quite pleased with how the game progressed, though having to sub two people out wasn't so great. Thanks for playing, everyone! I hope you all had as much fun playing as I did hosting.

    Anyone looking on at the Diplomacy games here wanting to try their hand should keep an eye out for yet another Diplomacy game here in Circus Maximus, coming soon!
  4. Accent


    Jul 8, 2009
    Congrats Bass (I'm proud of you) and also sorry again EW for subbing out.

    It should be noted however that I was aiming for an alliance with France from the start, I never intended to stay alone for my first game... I don't know how it would have turned out.

    I think the anonymous aspect of the game doesn't make it better, it just slows it.
  5. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    Yeah, since Earthworm pretty much effectively summed up how the game went, I am going to just summarize my relations with each of the individual powers / players:

    Austria: I don't have too much to say about you, LonelyNess. I never talked to you once while you were still in the game, however once you were eliminated, you complained quite a bit about Aura Guardian's negative comments about you in our mafia channel. For me it was rather funny to watch, because I was in a similar position as Austria (where you were the one who attacked me!) in an earlier game though I managed to survive because I put an effort to negotiate. I am surprised you didn't even think that the same fate could happen to you, but maybe I am missing something. Still, at least you were spot on about the juggernaut and Italy's loss (though that was made obvious by aska's opening).

    England: Even though you were weak the whole game, I have quite a bit to say about both Accent and Aura Guardian. Despite the rather negative bias most written articles seem to have against an Anglo-French alliance, I was initially set on doing it in Spring 1901 for two reasons: Firstly, since 2 out of the 3 previous games had Franco-German alliances, I wanted to mix it up a bit. Secondly, I had already sent Germany and England many messages. England (as Accent) responded somewhat enthusiastically to my proposal, but Germany didn't respond at all. Not to mention, Russia's initial messages were asking both Germany and I to help him destroy England, and I was later informed that Germany turned down the proposal. So, I made my opening more anti-German than anti-English, but when I saw that England moved to the Channel, I was rather confused. The postgame seems to give more insight about this (billymills asked him to), but unless your intent was to nab Belgium for yourself or attack me (These two things are not mutually exclusive anyway), you hurt yourself pretty badly with this move, as Russia had a much easier time dominating the early game because of it. Because of this, I decided to change my mind about allying with you and instead tried to woo billymills (who still had anti-French ambitions anyway). With my newly built fleet in Brest, Aura Guardian, who was soon subbed in, seemed to know that my stab was coming and managed to put aside his differences with billy and began a joint attack on me. It was successful at least for Germany, but you left your defenses wide open, which allowed me to survive despite billy's success. And then when we were in our alliance against the juggernaut, I thought your last minute attempt to have everyone stab me was hilarious when we were actually going to stab you. It was an interesting ride, and although both billy and I agreed you were rather annoying to talk to, you certainly have some potential. It would be interesting to play you again in the future!

    Italy: Outlaw, I think your play was somewhat good considering that you were Italy, but your situation was indeed tough. You focused on the east early on and maintained a DMZ in Piedmont, as one would expect. Indeed, things seemed ideal for you in the beginning with an alliance with Russia and a weak Austria (though I guess a strong France frightened you), but I am not so sure if it was the best decision, since the juggernaut seemed obvious by aska's opening. Then again, ipl partially masked it with his move to the Black Sea, so I can understand it being a difficult decision. I knew that you would attack me as soon as you were done with Austria, so I made appropriate preparations to thwart it, and succeeded (though at the expense of losing some centers to Germany). I then waited for the juggernaut to grow in strength so that you two would have no choice but to accept my help, and in doing so, I was the one able to gobble you up instead of Turkey, which you made clear to me that you were aware of that. Your identity was also one of the most obvious out of the other players - after just one conversation with you, you made your vast knowledge of the game readily apparent. Thankfully, I guessed right and managed to give you a fitting goodbye upon finishing you off. I think that moment in particular was probably one of the most satisfying for me in the entire game, because of what happened in our first game together.

    Turkey: I didn't pay too much attention to you at first, but our relations were still of some interest. When Outlaw tried to attack me, I was very happy when you and Russia were making gains against him in Austria, which forced him to retreat. When Trieste finally fell, we got into some negotiations about how to divide Italy between us, since both of us wanted some of the spoils. I told you that I would be satisfied with Tunis and that he could take the rest, but of course, it wouldn't be in my interest to fully honor that, since that would leave my centers open to you once Italy would fall, and when I finally got billymills to call off his attack against me, I moved all of my forces next to the Ionian Sea and blocked you. I commented on IRC that I should apologize to you for stealing your chance at revenge against Outlaw for previous games, but I just want to make it clear here. I must also thank you for the forfeit, without it I am not sure if I would have succeeded against Germany despite my advantage in numbers.

    Russia: As I already mentioned in the England section, you made your anti-English ambitions public, but you also didn't seem to take the game too seriously, imperfectluck. You continued to troll about ending the game early with a draw, but I still was afraid of you the most early in the game. However, your indifference and fast growth worked in my favor, as I was able to feed you orders for a few turns (and even when tredge subbed in), which was key in getting billymills to stop attacking me! It made me sad when I followed along with Germany's plan to stab you.

    Germany: Oh man, there is far too much I have to say about you, billymills. We both figured out each other's identities early thanks to our distinct styles of conversation, so I think that was fairly influential in our relations. I knew that you didn't intend to be friends with me early on, so I employed the "by the books" Maginot Opening, which successfully slowed you down. However, the negotiations about Belgium were tricky. I asked you to support me in, but I didn't trust you so I also asked England. As it turned out, both of you lived up to your end of the bargain so I ended up with 3 builds. However, I wasn't all too happy about this, since it gave me unnecessary attention, and I am sure England was concerned as well. Unfortunately, you managed to capitalize on this and got the newly subbed in Aura Guardian to help you take Belgium. I had the disadvantage at first, but when I finally ordered Russia to move all his units towards you, I knew you wouldn't try to fight a suicidal two front war, so I was very happy that you *finally* tried to begin a lasting alliance with me against the juggernaut. I then managed to regain my advantage in numbers and put up a necessary defense on my borders to prevent you from stabbing me. You weren't too happy about this, but by the time you made this clear to me, I was just about ready to stab you. In the end, I those last few moves were down to the wire, but it was over once I took Munich. Keep up the good work with those projecteuler problems though!

    Australia: Earthworm, thank you for hosting this game. I know that I nagged you quite a bit, even during the end, but I am happy that this is all over now. You were mostly an attentive host, and I am indeed grateful for your wormbot script which made the anonymous communication go by faster. It was a very fun game overall!

    And to everyone else: I might host another game myself again. Expect it to come fairly soon.
  6. Outlaw


    Jul 20, 2008
    What did I ever do to you Aska?

    Oh and you were dumb to not align with me Tredge. We could have destroyed Germany and France! And never have to talk to each other!
  7. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

    Dec 25, 2009
    I should have trusted Bass that turn I was destroyed. However, I thought he was threatening me. As for my alliance with Germany: I saw opportunity to survive, and I took it. If Bass had put off the attack by one turn, I might have been able to recover (it was in my plans). After that, I decided to play kingmaker. If Lonelyness hadn't forfeited, he could have held off Aska for another turn or two, maybe more. If Aska hadn't forfeited, then he might have annoyed France to the point of loss (I'm not a fan of forfeiting, let's just say.)

    Anyway, I look forward to the next game.
  8. askaninjask

    askaninjask [FLAIL ARMS]
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Mar 2, 2009
    Naval Turkey is always loads more interesting than land-based Turkey. You happened to be in the middle of the mediterranean with one or two fleets.

    At the end of the game I didn't care who won and I knew I wasn't surviving, so don't judge thanks

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)