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dirty south

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by q p, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. q p

    q p horrible person
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    64
    - dirty south -
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hii, Smogon. ~
    After missing out on the last suspect round I took the recent ladder reset as an incentive to play a little more actively again. Naturally I needed a new team. Somehow it ended up performing rather well, but I still feel like it is missing… something and could easily be improved.

    While it is once again neither the most elaborate nor original team and chances are you have seen something similar before it excels at applying constant pressure to its opponents and apparently is quite hard to play against. The team at hand follows a rather simple concept. Pick a Pokemon, find a few 2 'mon cores it works well on, throw them all together and see if it works.

    The Pokemon I chose was one I greatly enjoyed using in the past and one I admittedly have a hard time building teams without nowadays, Keldeo. We all know that Keldeo works amazingly well when paired with Choice Band Tyranitar. We all know that the combination of the two musketeers Keldeo and Terrakion is extremely hard to play against. We all know that Keldeo and Landorus have great synergy and fairly similar counters. But what happens if you use all of these cores on the same team?
    Peaks & such (open)
    Namesake alt 'dirty south' and ladder alt 'Skittehz'.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Team building (open)
    If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Choice Scarf Keldeo had worked incredibly well for me in the past so I decided to build around it again. While it certainly isn't the underrated threat it was just a few months ago anymore it still works like a charm.
    [​IMG]

    In the past I had already used Keldeo with rain support multiple times as well as shoehorning it into various hyperoffensive teams. The one popular strategy I had yet to try out was pairing it with a Pursuit trapper able to remove its main counters. Thus Choice Band Tyranitar became the second member of my team.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Some people argue that the combination of Keldeo and Terrakion is absurdly hard to play around. Frankly, they are right. It's a core I never liked to face simply because of how much pressure it can put on your team. Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Seeing how I was essentially just stacking huge threats already throwing in one more seemed like it wouldn't hurt. From my attempt at the Outsiders Challenge I learned that Keldeo and Landorus-T make a great core. This time however I went with Landorus-I instead since it synergizes extremely well with both Keldeo and Terrakion by softening up or downright knocking out most of their counters.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point the team looked like it would be able to overwhelm most defensive setups with relative ease. But at the same time just about any offensive threat would've been able to plow through it with relative ease. It also lacked the ever-so-important entry hazard support any offensive core should have. Not wanting to go full-on hyperoffense I threw in one of the safest walls in the metagame, Skarmory.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Soon thereafter the team's sixth slot was taken by what is often considered a “band aid” Pokemon. A rather fitting description. Rotom-W patches up a plethora of weaknesses. Apart from Keldeo it is the only thing that stands between my team and rain offense… or any special attacker to be perfectly honest. Furthermore its slow Volt Switch is extremely helpful when it comes to keeping momentum and switching any of my sweepers into a favorable matchup without risking to lose them.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Changes in bold
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Tail
    Choice Band Tyranitar is a complete monster. When it comes in something will go down. Simple as that. Its primary role is of course to punch holes into the opposing team to allow other members to sweep, but it actually brings a lot more to the table than just trapping problematic Pokemon with Pursuit.

    Most of the time I will use the team preview to determine which opposing Pokemon need to be removed or weakened to allow either Keldeo or Landorus to sweep. The usual suspects are the likes of Latias, Latios, Celebi, Jellicent, at times even Amoonguss or a pink blob. Once I manage to bring in Tyranitar against either of them getting rid of them can be as easy as pressing Pursuit. Tyranitar's other moves serve a rather trivial purpose, hitting as many things as possible as hard as possible. Stone Edge and Crunch are generic STAB moves and shouldn't need any further explanation. Tyranitar's fourth move used to be Superpower, but since it was rarely ever used I replaced it with Aqua Tail. Unlike Superpower, Aqua Tail is a rather safe move to be locked into and provides some neat coverage that doesn't require much prediction. Being able to hit the likes of Gliscor, Hippowdon or the newly popular Nyandorus hard should they dare to switch in against Tyranitar has proven to be rather helpful. The last major asset Tyranitar adds to the team is Sand Stream. While only Tyranitar itself and Terrakion benefit directly from Sandstorm the team as a whole greatly benefits from situations where the Pokemon in play are in a wounded state due to its offensive nature. Effectively disabling Leftovers recovery or even dealing residual damage to them greatly helps to wear down a bunch of problematic Pokemon such as the aforementioned Lati-twins.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Aqua pony is best pony. Choice Scarf Keldeo is one of the best, if not the best, revenge killers and lategame sweepers in the current metagame. Base 129 Special Attack coupled with a blazing base 108 Speed make it a force to be reckoned with.

    While Keldeo was originally intended to be a dedicated lategame sweeper it has been the most valuable as a revenge killer in practice. I usually have to bring it in multiple times over the course of a match to stop any given sweeper. Luckily Keldeo's great speed stat allows it to outrun virtually all relevant setup sweepers in the tier as well as at least tying with most common Choice Scarf users. I personally believe that anything short of base 105 speed just doesn't cut it as a team's sole scarfer anymore, but as long as other players disagree with this sentiment Keldeo will be able to outrun a bunch of teams completely. Not that I'm gonna complain, it's one of Keldeo's major selling points after all. Apart from protecting the team from blazingly fast threats and cleaning up late in the game once the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened Keldeo is also reasonably bulky. Should my primary checks fail it can act as a fallback check to various threats such as Lucario or Rock Polish Landorus. Alongside Rotom, Keldeo also happens to be a rather solid answer to most rain teams. Keldeo works well enough in the sand, but saying it doesn't appreciate rain would be flat out lying. Knowing how well it performs in the rain and that I can always fall back on it if worst comes to worst makes playing weather wars against Politoed a whole lot easier.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    It's Terrakion. It hits things. Hard. In a way it is a lot like Tyranitar. An offensive behemoth in its own right with the potential to easily wipe out unprepared teams, but ultimately not meant to sweep. Instead of downright wiping out teams Terrakion's main purpose is to further soften them up so Keldeo or Landorus can go to town.

    With that said it may seem counter-intuitive to not use Choice Band Terrakion for its insane wallbreaking prowess, but the versatility SubSD brings to the table is simply too valuable to give up. First and foremost it assures that Terrakion itself stays a threat, but it also helps to play around certain problematic Pokemon. Should Tyranitar fail to get rid of them for some reason Terrakion is usually my best bet at breaking through the likes of Jellicent or Amoonguss. While I certainly don't like switching Terrakion in against them it's fairly bulky provided that I manage to keep Sandstorm up and should usually be able to beat them one on one. This is, however, a contingency plan and I'd much rather just let Tyranitar handle them so Terrakion is free to just rip holes into whatever it hits. Terrakion's moves are bog-standard and shouldn't need much explanation. I originally used a Rock Gem on Terrakion to maintain some of a Choice Band set's wallbreaking prowess, but as multiple raters have pointed out a Salac Berry makes Terrakion much more versatile and assures it can be used as a win condition if need be.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Landorus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Rock Polish
    Keldeo's partner in crime. Landorus and Keldeo make an amazingly strong offensive core. Not only do they have near flawless defensive synergy, but they also happen to share a lot of checks and counters very few of which have any chance to take on both of them in succession. Unlike Tyranitar and Terrakion and despite my initial intentions Landorus should not be seen as some sort of support Pokemon for Keldeo. It's a sweeper, plain and simple.

    While Landorus does an admirable job at supporting Keldeo it is perfectly capable of sweeping on its own given the possibility. Sometimes all it takes for it to wipe out a team is some residual damage and a single turn of setup. After Rock Polish Landorus easily outruns every Pokemon in the entire metagame. In fact my game plan against offensive teams oftentimes boils down to forcing an opportunity for Landorus to set up to downright sweep them. It should also be noted that Landorus can still be used as the wallbreaker it was meant to be at some point in time. If it manages to remove an opposing Pokemon along the lines of Skarmory, Gliscor or Nyandorus it instantly makes the rest of my sweepers a whole lot more threatening. Seeing how granting Landorus a single free turn can have catastrophic results opponents simply sacrificing their walls to it aren't exactly a rare sight. Landorus' moves are rather self-explanatory. Rock Polish is a given, Earth Power is its go-to move to hit things hard and Focus Blast and Hidden Power add some coverage against things Earth Power doesn't hit. The choice between Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Flying is a tricky one. While both are rarely ever used more than once or twice per match they both have their own different niches uses. Hidden Power Ice arguably grants better coverage overall, cleanly OHKOs Gliscor and Nyandorus. Furthermore it allows Landorus to break through Latias and Latios provided they have taken some previous damage. Hidden Power Flying on the other hand allows it to beat Celebi and Amoonguss and a second STAB move is always nice to have.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    Skarmory has two jobs on this team. Set up Stealth Rock and keep a bunch of setup sweepers and Choice Scarf users from walking all over my team. Without Skarmory facing even a single scarfed Terrakion could potentially end in catastrophic failure.

    The way Skarmory is played largely depends on the opponent's team. At times it can be the single most important member of my team and win matches virtually on its own. At other times it ends up being largely useless and doesn't do much outside of maybe putting some dents into a frail sweeper after hanging on with Sturdy. Speaking of Sturdy, it may sound silly, but as long as I can keep Sturdy up Skarmory is actually a rather solid fallback check against… well, everything. Sometimes Skarmory can even take on Pokemon that supposedly counter it with ease thanks to its deceptively powerful Brave Bird. Skarmory also provides the team with the Stealth Rock support any good offensive team should have. It's really just a rock-solid Pokemon, does exactly what it's supposed to do and you all know how it works.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest
    Rotom-W, the band aid Pokemon. Weak to rain? Scared of your own Landorus? Getting styled on by any generic special attacker? Just add Rotom-W! Rotom is here to patch up a few of the teams glaring weaknesses. First and foremost it is meant to stop offensive rain teams from destroying my team completely, but it also has a lot of other amazing qualities.

    While Tyranitar can trap a bunch of potentially problematic special attackers there are some, like Gengar or Alakazam, it simply can't handle. Even when not facing any of those threats there are still times where I prefer to keep Tyranitar healthy. This is where Rotom comes in. Between its amazing defensive typing and great special bulk Rotom is able to take on a good amount of special attackers with relative ease. But its usefulness extends far beyond being able to not faint from random attacks. Rotom's Volt Switch is invaluable for the team seeing how some of its members need nothing but a safe switch to wreak havoc. Whenever I find myself in a matchup where Tyranitar needs stay healthy for some reason I tend to use Rotom as a pivot to bring it in if at all possible. Rotom also serves as the team's status absorber. While most of its members don't mind Toxic all that much having the wrong Pokemon paralyzed or burned can easily cost me the match and Rotom greatly helps to circumvent this issue. This is the reason I choose Rest and Chesto Berry instead of Leftovers and Pain Split. While the lack of Leftovers and reusable recovery can certainly hurt at time the way I tend to play Rotom pretty much guarantees that it will be burned or poisoned at some point in most matches. It should also be noted that the lack of Leftovers can at times allow me to bluff a Choice Scarf set. Sadly this works nowhere near as good as it used to since ChestoRest Rotom-W seems to be quite common nowadays, but if nothing else it can still make for some rather funny matches. Hydro Pump is a generic STAB move and allows Rotom to dish out some damage if need be. Even more so should my opponent be so kind to provide it with some rain. Rotom's last move, Will-O-Wisp, serves not only to cripple physical attackers, but also to wear down some problematic Pokemon. At times getting an early burn in on the likes of Jellicent or Amoonguss can be game-changing.

    Importable (open)
    dirty south (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Tail

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance

    Landorus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Rock Polish

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest

    Threats & known problems (open)
    [​IMG]- Breloom
    Skarmory walls it completely, but I need to sleep fodder something first. Seeing how Breloom can potentially OHKO any other Pokemon on my team this can be quite tricky at times. My team also slightly weak to Fighting type attacks in general and a simple +X Mach Punch can be extremely hard to play around.
    [​IMG]- Celebi
    Among all the Pokemon that check Keldeo and Landorus Celebi stands out. Unlike other problematic Pokemon it can actually take on Tyranitar with relative ease provided it runs the right set. I have yet to run into any sets with Baton Pass, but truth be told I simply wouldn't know what to do against those.
    [​IMG]- Lucario & setup sweepers in general
    If, for some ungodly reason, Lucario ever manages to set up against my team and I have taken minimal prior damage on Skarmory and Keldeo I just lose. The same is true for a few more setup sweepers, but Lucario stands out so I chose it to represent them. My usual course of action against these threats is…. not giving them any chance to set up…?
    [​IMG]- Gengar & other particular special sweepers
    Once again I chose a single Pokemon to represent a group of threats. Fast special attackers that can break through Tyranitar and aren't knocked out by one of Keldeo's reliable moves can be extremely problematic. Should I misplay Tyranitar or if my opponent simply has too many of them for it to handle fast special sweepers in general can become a huge problem.
    I am aware that I essentially just said that the team is weak to... everything, but most of the threats can usually be played around somehow. In fact some of the things I listed are rather manageable on their own and only turn into a serious problem when combined with other threatening Pokemon.

    So, that's my latest team. Thank you for reading! I'm looking forward to any feedback, rates, questions, criticism or concerns you may have.
    Feel free to use the team if you like it. Test it, fix it, tear it apart, do whatever you want with it.~

    Pokemon sprites from Pokecheck. Item sprites from Serebii.
    Shout-out to HungryMoth for helping me to write this up, proof-reading and turning it into slightly less of a grammatical clusterfuck. :3
    Posted this at 4 AM, if anything is blatantly wrong with it please let me know.

    Bedschibaer likes this.
  2. Volty

    Volty

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    362
    First off great team! Lately i have been getting into sand alot more. Now for the rate, keep in mind im still not that good with rating teams but i'll try to help all that i can!

    One thing that i see is that Terrakion set, if you want it to be a secondary reliable win condition and sweep late game which he exells at replace Rock Gem for Salac berry. Once you substitute on a switch you can swords dance, then keep on subing untill you get that speed boost to sweep! (I can see choice band being very good here also to put a dent in the team for landurus to sweep)

    I would also like to point out a weakness to strong fighting types like Terrakion who can slice through this team easily given the chance. Something like Life orb Latias will greatly help this by taking the hits very nicely and returning with a Draco meteor or psyshock.(I'll post the set down below)
    This will rid you of stealth rocks however

    If you go the route you wont have any stealth rocks as Skarmory is replaced, to fix this use the standard Tyranitar in place of your current one. This one can last longer to help you win that dreaded weather war!

    So i had alot of fun rating this and i hope i helped alot here are the sets :D
    *Edit forgot that you can keep tyranitar banded if you use the lead sash Terrakion set ill post it aswell*

    [​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 Spd / 184 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover


    [​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat



    [​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower



    To sum it all up!

    Show Hide
    Salac berry --> Rock gem
    Band Terrakion --> Band Tyranitar
    *Optional Lead Terrakion
    Latias --> Skarmory


    I hoped i helped and i strongly feel that these changes would be for the beter of your team!
  3. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,263
    Hello.

    Nice team, q p, I really like the usage of today's common threats such as Choice Scarf Keldeo and Rock Polish Landorus, so I'd like to give you props on that. I see some flaws that can be ironed out in this team, so I'll try my best to help this team out. Alright, first of all, I would recommend using a spread of 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe over your current one. The aftermantioned EV spread allows Tyranitar to outpace base 70 Speed Pokemon, while the Attack EV's are obvious, and the rest is thrown into HP to give him more bulk. Moving on, I would like to suggest using a Salac Berry on Terrakion in place of Rock Gem. Salac Berry gives you a one level speed boost, and despite it trades Power for Speed, I think that you should try it out. Well, I'm out of suggestons here, as this is an excellent team, and very well presented, if I do say so myself. I hope my suggestions helped you just a little bit. Once again, excellent team and good luck in your future endeavours!

    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  4. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Hey, nice team here, it's using pretty classic yet powerful stuff.
    But if I'm here, it's because I believe that I could help you somehow to improve this team.


    Here I go for the weaknesses :

    - You mentionned some, Breloom is indeed a big fat threat. You explained it very well.

    - The special attackers not afraid of Rotom-W. For instance, even if you have Ttar, Lati@s can pretty much annoy your team. They have the power to break through Ttar most of the time if they pack Surf for instance, and you don't want to lose your Tyranitar too easily anyway because it would open your team to a lot of weather threats. By the way, once Ttar is down, your team can have big issues with stuff like CM Latias that could just end the rest of your team on his own.

    - Did I talk about weather war ? Well Venusaur should be in the top of your threat list. It does outspeed everything and potentially OHKO everything or almost. If you add to the mix Sleep powder, you'll be in a bad position against the Suns (especially when we know that Dugtrio can trap and kill Terrakion and Tyranitar).


    Okay, I could list some other threats, but the main issues are here. So I'll focus my advices on that.


    First, Skarmory is the weak link in your defense :

    Sadly, I'm afraid that your Rotom-W will be pressured more than you want to. Moreover, it's a pokemon that slows the tempo of your team pretty badly. It opens your team to a lot of Special threats by the way.
    Since you don't mind about having a generic team, I'm gonna advice you to try Jirachi instead, in order to boost your tempo and revenge kill stuff like Breloom. Indeed, I want to give Jirachi a Scarf, this way your team will be more offensive but also less prone to set-up sweepers.
    Jirachi also switches in pretty easily on the Lati@s softening the pressure on Ttar's shoulders.


    Now, I changed a part of your defensive core, I should offer you another partner instead of Rotom-W :

    Given the last weaknesses I mentionned, I see a pretty easily way to still maintain the offensive pressure, and the defensive power.
    Latias allows you to fight Sun teams easier, and you also get a potential special sweeper. His speed, allows you to outspeed almost every unboosted pokemon in OU meaning that few pokemons can set-up for free on Latias.
    Moreover, Latias totally walls and kill Breloom, you still have to sleep fodder someone but well, it's usually the case with Breloom. You team does not let many rooms for him to come anyway now, since both Latias and Jirachi are faster than him.


    Since I want to Scarf Jirachi :

    I advice you to play a different Keldeo that you should like to play. Indeed, Ttar really unlocks the power of a specific set, which is the Sub/CM one. Indeed, you can set up really easily on the usual Rain teams (for instance Ferrothorn without Whip or Tentacruel, or SpD Jirachi, Defensiv Toed without PSong ...). This set will make your match-up easier because you're still somehow weak to some Rain archetypes.



    I hope I helped, these changes are not so deep as they might look. In fact, it is just about few improvements making your team more classic but also more solid.

    I also agree with everything that Ciele said, so I won't repeat the changes but you should give them a try in my opinion.


    Here are the sets :

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Serene Grace
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-Turn / Healing Wish

    Healing Wish is something you could try, that's why I slash it. However, U-Turn is far more classic and easier to play with.

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Levitate
    88 HP / 176 SpA / 244 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Psychock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    This set allows you to live a +2 Extreme Speed + SR from Lucario. He can indeed set-up on a locked Ttar so in fact it's no surprise that he comes as a threat.
    If you want to play something else instead of HP Fire, put back EVs in Speed to hit the maximum.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Leftovers
    Justified
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Surf / Scald
    - Secret Sword
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute

    Classic, I slashed Scald in case you want to try it. You could also go for a bulkier spread with EVs in HP and less EVs in SpA.



    TL;DR :


    Show Hide
    Scarf Achi > Skarm
    Latias > Rotom-W
    CM Keldeo > Scarf Keldeo




    EDIT : I forgot a nitpick, change Landorus spread to 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe since you don't need more speed after a RP and you still outspeed the stuff you need to outspeed. The extra HP can be useful.
  5. q p

    q p horrible person
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    64
    Hi TeraVoltage, thanks for you rate.

    Looking back running Rock Gem on Terrakion might've just been an attempt at doing way too many different things with only a single set. Seeing how everyone so far has suggested SubSalac that's what I'll be trying first, but Choice Band and Sash lead certainly are interesting ideas as well.

    I'll definitely give Latias a try as well, it's a Pokemon I enjoy using and seems to fit nicely on the team. No idea why I didn't think of it myself.

    Specially defensive Tyranitar on the other hand is a Pokemon I never really warmed up to, for some reason it just never really seemed to be doing much for my teams. Since Choice Band Tyranitar has been doing amazingly well so far and I believe it is part of what makes the team work in the first place it's something I'd like to keep if at all possible.

    Hey there and thanks for your rate.

    100 Speed EVs allow Tyranitar to outspeed Skarmory's on site analysis sets. Maybe I'm just being paranoid here, but it seems like people aim to outspeed that thing with the most random stuff (hell, I've done it with defensive Politoed before myself) so it seemed like a nice amount of speed to aim for. The 8 additional EVs are really just speed creep. I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference the additional bulk would make, but somehow I just wouldn't feel comfortable with less than 100 Speed EVs.
    This brings up another interesting point though, I doubt I actually need any Speed EVs on my own Skarmory.

    As for the Salac Berry on Terrakion, yup, definitely trying that.

    Hey Remedy,

    your revamp of the team's defensive backbone looks pretty cool. Patches up some holes and still provides more offensive pressure on its own than my current one. Oh, and CM Keldeo is a cool set as well. The only possible issues I can see are that unlike Rotom-W Jirachi doesn't bait things I want to trap with Tyranitar and the fact that I always feel a little uncomfortable when playing with base <108 scarfers. I'll definitely give it a try though.

    As for Landorus EV spread, yup, makes sense, gonna make that change.

    Thanks for your rate, much appreciated.
  6. Eranu

    Eranu

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    382
    Hey, cool team.


    You indeed have some trouble getting past Celebi, and Gengar looks annoying too.
    You can solve this by changing Skarmory to a Specially defensive set, and giving Tyranitar a Chople Berry. Skarmory can wall any non Nasty Plot HP Fire Celebi set, and threaten it out with Brave Bird doing around half, forcing it to Recover every turn. Tyranitar having a Chople Berry allows you to vary between Crunch and Pursuit, bluffing the Choice Band. Celebi can't stay in on this set either, Recovering of Crunches, which allows you, as long as you predict the switch, to finish it off with Pursuit. Specially defensive Skarmory should aid in dealing with Gengar too, in case Tyranitar is weakened. I don't really see how Breloom and Lucario are that big of problems since Luke has, as you said, a hard time setting up versus your team, while Terrakion (unless bp set), Keldeo and Landorus can all live a hit and KO back, and Skarmory walls Breloom as long as you sleep fodder something. I don't think you really need Aqua Tail, so you might be better off changing Aqua tail to Stealth Rocks on Tyranitar so you can put Spikes on Skarmory instead of Stealth Rocks, making sweeping with all three of your sweepers easier. As for its EV spread, you can keep it the same or run some more Sp Def evs so it can tank hits from Lati@s better.

    All in all, I wouldn't change the team too much since it's basically standard sand and most changes will rather open you up to more things than fix things. Hope I helped, good luck !
  7. q p

    q p horrible person
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Dec 1, 2012
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    Hi Eranu.

    As much as I hate giving up Choice Band Tyranitar's amazing immediate power you suggestions seem to fix a lot of problems and I'll definitely give them a try. You're right that Aqua Tail is essentially a filler move and I'll definitely try to roll with Stealth Rock on Tyranitar and Spikes on Skarm for a bit. The one thing I'm a little wary about is that, between trapping things and everything else it needs to do, Tyranitar might not have the time or health to reliably set up Stealth Rock. I'll just test how it works out in practice.

    Thanks for the rate, much appreciated. :)


    EDIT: Whoops, hit reply too soon. I also played a few matches with a Salac Berry on Terrakion. While it is probably too early to pass a final judgement it has been working rather well so far and helped a lot more than a Rock Gem would have in most matches.

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