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Ditto (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Amarillo, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto, branded as a useless whore for the last four generations, returns as a sassy pimp in all its pink and purple glory in an attempt to dominate the Pokemon world. Its new Dream World ability, Imposter, allows Ditto to turn into the opponent bar item choice and HP without wasting a turn. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto will almost always be faster than the opponent, and functions as the best revenge killer there ever was. If that doesn't sound perfect enough, Ditto is also an all-star scout—the moment it transforms into the opponent, Ditto can reveal its opponent's entire moveset. Ditto can also switch into a myriad of Pokemon immune to their own primary STAB, or steal opposing utility moves ranging from Aromatherapy to Whirlwind.</p>

    <p>However, Ditto is far from perfect. How so, you ask? Ironically, Ditto is only as strong as its opponent, and this flaw allows Ditto to be at its worst in the weakest metagame. Most importantly, NU mainly lacks Speed-boosting setup Pokemon that Ditto can take advantage of. Calm Mind is perhaps the most common boosting move in NU, and Ditto can do little to prevent Calm Mind sweepers such as Musharna from rampaging through your team. Other setup sweepers, especially Absol, are also hard to revenge kill without exceptional prediction skills. Still, Ditto can easily revenge kill prominent threats such as Cinccino and Gorebyss, and acts as a reliable "panic button" of sorts. Most importantly, Ditto is an incredibly fun Pokemon to use, and can provide you—and your Pokemon—with some good old-fashioned fun.</p>

    [SET]
    name: The Best Set Ever
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Imposter
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 30 HP / 30 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is no doubt Ditto's best set. Imposter functions as a free Transform, immediately copying all base stats bar HP, all stat changes, and the target's exact moveset. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto turns into a monstrous revenge killer, as it can outspeed the opponent no matter what. Of course, Ditto will Speed tie with opposing Choice Scarf users, but it can revenge kill set-up sweepers such as Shell Smash Gorebyss and Belly Drum Linoone, as well as weather sweepers such as Growth Victreebel. With proper prediction, Ditto can also revenge kill the likes of Cinccino and Emboar, who are incredibly hard to switch into. Additionally, Ditto can take advantage of an opponent's immunities in order to switch into threats such as Choice Scarf Zebstrika. In a similar fashion, Ditto can also switch into Sap Sipper Sawsbuck, though not without considerable risk. Keep in mind that Ditto is so frail thanks to its low base HP that it is rather difficult to bring it in on anything other than weak resisted hits such as Choice Scarf Sawk's Stone Edge. Take note that if you need Ditto for revenge killing duties, it might be better to avoid taking such risks. Furthermore, Ditto can function as a scout as it can copy each of the opponent's moves, revealing any surprise coverage options. If necessary, Ditto can even act as a lead, and steal the ability to lay entry hazards from opposing Cacturne or Garbodor. Ditto plays as a revenge killer, scout, and late-game cleaner all in one; however, as Ditto lacks any surprise moves or spreads, remember that Ditto will be only as good as how you play it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ditto's HP is almost maximized, as HP is the only stat that carries over after transforming with Impostor. The remaining EVs do not matter, except in rare cases when Imposter fails. The given IVs let Ditto revenge kill Gorebyss with Hidden Power Grass, perhaps the most common threat that carries Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>An important point to note is the fact that Ditto does not fully copy the opponent. While this might seem like an unimportant issue, Ditto has trouble revenge killing Guts sweepers such as Swellow and Zangoose because Ditto will most likely not be poisoned. When revenge killing these threats, remember that an unboosted Swellow's Brave Bird is shamefully weak, while an unboosted Zangoose's Facade is not strong enough to take down enemy Zangoose. Similarly, Ditto is unable to revenge kill Unburden + Acrobatics Drifblim, ironically because of its own Choice Scarf. Another difference is that Ditto keeps its Hidden Power type, but Hidden Power is a rare sight in NU bar some specific Psychic-types and Gorebyss.</p>

    <p>The subtleties of playing with Ditto do not end there. On a double switch, the faster Pokemon will switch out first. While this rarely matters, this is crucial for Ditto, as Ditto copies the active opposing Pokemon the moment it is sent out. You can take advantage of this to lure double switches for non-mirror matchups using Ditto. For example, if you have an Emboar out against an opposing Amoonguss and you predict a switch to an opposing Alomomola, switching in Ditto will make it transform into the Amoonguss instead of the Alomomola, because Emboar will switch out first. This is incredibly unexpected, especially if Ditto's target is not currently on your team. This also guarantees that Ditto can transform into a slow opponent, if so desired. While transforming into a slow opponent is usually a bad idea because Ditto is not bulky enough to consistently take hits, you can switch Ditto into opposing Amoonguss relatively easily if Sleep Clause is already activated, after which you can effectively take one of your opponent's Pokemon out of the match with your own Spore.</p>

    <p>It is rather difficult to recommend teammates for Ditto, mainly because Ditto will almost always be a different Pokemon. Still, Ditto mainly thrives against offensive teams that usually cannot take an attack from themselves. Conversely, Ditto struggles against bulky Pokemon such as Musharna and Alomomola, as Ditto will be without any boosts most of the time. In general, hard-hitters such as Choice Band Emboar can break down opposing defensive cores so that Ditto can wreak havoc. If you happen to rely on Ditto to take care of opposing stat-boosting sweepers, remember that Calm Mind users can bypass Ditto relatively easily. As a result, Ditto needs a teammate such as Skuntank or Absol to handle opposing Calm Mind users. Cinccino is a great teammate for breaking through possible Substitute users that restrict Ditto. Finally, Spikes users such as Cacturne are great teammates because Ditto tends to be slightly weaker than the opponent thanks to its lack of a boosting item such as Life Orb, and Spikes can weaken foes enough for Ditto to revenge kill them.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ditto has few other options. It can choose a different Hidden Power type, but very few Pokemon in NU use Hidden Power as a main attacking option. Moreover, those that do, such as Duosion, generally beat Ditto anyway. Ditto can use something other than Choice Scarf, but Ditto will always face Speed ties without it, and loses its largest niche as a reliable revenge killer. Really, unless you have an unsavory mind or a fifth-grader's imagination, there's very little else Ditto can do.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is hard, if not impossible, to name a single Ditto counter in a traditional sense; Ditto is not your average Pokemon, after all. The most natural thing to do would be to try and check whatever Ditto is at the moment. In fact, you know all of its moves, so you can rest easy that there are no surprises waiting for you. Additionally, Ditto will almost always be holding a Choice Scarf, so if you can switch in a Pokemon that resists its chosen attack, Ditto will certainly lose its momentum. Furthermore, Ditto lacks a Life Orb or Choice Band, which further increases the number of Pokemon that can take an attack and hit back. Unless those Pokemon are worn down first, Ditto will have a hard time being effective.</p>

    <p>Nonetheless, there are some things that Ditto will nearly always have trouble with. Substitute, which prevents Imposter from taking effect, makes Ditto essentially useless; Ditto will hence find it impossible to revenge kill setup sweepers such as Substitute + Shell Smash Gorebyss and Substitute Klang. In addition, Ditto takes damage from all entry hazards, and will be affected by Toxic Spikes even if it turns into a Poison- or Steel-type.</p>

    <p>By far the best way to check Ditto, though, is a little thought. When building your team, make sure that you can take advantage of opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon. If you have a Pokemon that, when given +1 Speed, can beat your whole team, do not allow Ditto to copy that Pokemon. When you see Ditto in Team Preview, hold on to your Swords Dance Sawsbuck and Shell Smash Gorebyss, unless you are confident that you can revenge kill or somehow neuter the opposing Ditto. Finally, be careful not to give Ditto entry hazards or sleep-inducing moves, as they tend to be an incredible nuisance to face.</p>

    Show Hide
    [Overview]
    • DW ability Imposter is now released! Ditto becomes viable
      Sadly, Ditto is at its worst in the NU metagame
    • 'just as good as the opponent'
    • Why is Ditto not that good in NU? The setup move of choice in NU is Calm Mind. Against Swords Dance + Sucker Punch users like Absol, you'll encounter problems trying to revenge, anyways.
    • Substitute is really common, so that sucks too
    • Bulk Up / Coil is rarer but used. NP is almost never used.
    • Speed boosters? Dragon Dancers, and of course the mighty Klang. You lose to Klang anyways because it has substitute.
    • So basically, only thing ditto can steal boosts and sweep are like, Samurott, Sawsbuck, Altaria, and Gorebyss
    • Great 'Scout' because Imposter tells you all the opposing Pokemon's moves. Too bad it doesn't tell opposing Hidden Power
    • OK Revenge killer as well.
    • Not exactly the most reliable thing to use… Because it's hard to steal boosts, you are relying on your opponent to have a good choice scarf material, in essence. Still, NU is incredibly offensive which means Ditto is still strong.

    [SET]
    name: The Best Set Ever
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Imposter
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • The best set ever!!!
    • Insert humorous comments
    • So basically, other than those select setup sweepers, you can outspeed and kill things like weakened CB emboar, Cinccino, etc. so everything that can OHKO itself.
    • Things that have immunity to its main STAB. Think Zebstrika, etc. It's fun to switch in on Scarf Zeb's Volt Switch, etc. though it requires much prediction in case like Sawsbuck and its Grass immunity.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • HP is the only thing that carries over so yeah
    • So I want some guideline on the nature and evs because they matter so little? I boosted attack first for 'struggle to hit harder' =/
    • Choice Scarf is always useful, allows you to revenge things reliably,
    • Lefties is unreliable and if you're copying defensive mons you are doing it wrong because Ditto has low HP
    • I guess Hidden Power needs adjusting but the only thing that uses Hidden Power is really Calm Minding Psychic-types. Ditto has no business with them.
    • teammates: uhhhh
    • Hard to say because, well, Ditto isn't Ditto 99.9999% of the time
    • Ditto fits well in offensive teams, matches well against offensive teams. So standard offensive mons like Cinccino, etc.

    [Other Options]

    • LOL
    • Other Items, basically. Choice Scarf is the most reliable, but...

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Hard to name a Ditto counter in a traditional sense… you're switching into a 'something other than ditto' every time.
    • Check whatever ditto is at the moment
    • Substitute trolls Imposter pretty hard
    • Essentially, anything that can take an attack from itself will beat Ditto, if ditto switches in to revenge it. This is made easier because of no Choice Band / Life Orb boosting damage output.
    • Ditto generally can't switch in on anything
    • So just be smart, which means:
    • Put thought in offensive teambuilding, make sure you have your own stuff checked
    • Don't allow it to copy a mon that beats you scarfed
    • Don't set up Dragon Dance or SD Sawsbuck or something when opponent has ditto and you can’t wall a set up [Insert Pokemon name]
    • Don't give Ditto hazard moves or sleep inducing moves
  2. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Okay, Ditto is obviously a special case when it comes to writing analyses because it literally becomes the opponent. For this reason, I think the set comments shouldn't just be a throw-away, but should discuss scenarios where Ditto should be used, which specific pokemon it likes switching into and dealing with, and how it fits onto teams with various different playstyles. For example, you should say that it does well against SD Samurott, switching in once it's boosted and breaking through with a +2 Megahorn. Likewise, you can break through -1 Shell Smash Gorebyss with a +2 Surf and just straight-up sweep from there.
  3. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    Ditto will definitely not have a traditional analysis. I'd imagine that the set comments really should just explain how Ditto should be played (ie as a scout, revenge killer, etc) and then move onto the scenarios where Ditto is useful and where it isn't, like erisia said. Don't feel strictly limited to set-up sweepers, either; if Ditto gets in on a weakened CB Emboar, your opponent is going to have a hell of a time a) figuring out what move it's going to use and b) dealing with a +1 Emboar, which still packs plenty of power. The same goes with stuff like Cinccino, which most people just rely on having priority or a faster Pokemon to beat.

    I feel like we can experiment a little more with the choice of Ditto's item in NU, since we have quite a few sweepers with priority (Absol, Samurott) that could possibly be used with another item... idk, but might be worth looking into.

    I think that when you're discussing checks & counters, you should explain that Ditto forces more thought when putting together an offensive team, since you basically have to be able to keep your own threats in check to prevent Ditto from getting out of hand. Also mention that it's absolutely dead weight against defensive teams, since it's basically useless unless you're planning on nabbing some health back by stealing Regenerator from something like Alomomola. And don't even consider trying Wish... This is probably going to be a super weird analysis but yeah.
  4. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Don't mention Leftovers. Or any item besides Choice Scarf; otherwise, Ditto fails at its revenging role.

    Mention Cinccino in AC. You mention that Ditto hates Substitute users and Cinccino gets rid of them. Cinccino + Ditto can act as an anti-offense core of sorts.
  5. breh

    breh
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    @DTC: Leftovers seems ok in OO at least.

    Ditto actually does fit well on stall teams. Against opposing offensive teams, it provides a deterrent to setup; even against stall teams, you can sometimes "steal" your opponent's spinner (if they have one) or spiker, which is neat and can give you a serious advantage.

    Suggesting the name "The Bestest Set Ever".

    I feel like you should be running Defense (or Special Defense) instead of attack; I don't think anything really runs Sub + Taunt and it could be more useful in the odd event that your opponent is poisoned and under a sub.
  6. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    OK so yeah added those

    Not like that makes much of a difference... If you have ditto out as a ditto you're kind of screwed as is. I'll change that, though. All other tier's analyses seem to have that as the main option.

    I'm pretty sure this is its best set? LOL. I'll get started on the writing.
  7. Django

    Django
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    Ditto is fun...

    QC Approved 1/3
  8. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  9. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    QC Approved 3/3
  10. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    OK Wrote ditto out

    Because of the nature of this write-up, can someone check the content of the writing as well, so we make sure I didn't forget anything?
  11. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Very nice analysis. I would've liked if you'd cited the fact that Ditto can revenge Linoone as well. Otherwise, pretty much.
  12. melvni

    melvni
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    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto, branded as the useless whore that it is for the last three generations, returns as a sassy pimp in all its pink and purple glory [in] an attempt to dominate the Pokemon world. Imposter allows Ditto to turn into the opponent bar item choice and HP without wasting a single turn, bar Ditto's item choice and its own HP. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto will almost always be faster than the opponent, and functions as the best revenge killer there ever was. Does that not sound perfect enough? Ditto is also an all-star scout—the moment it Transforms into the opponent, Ditto can reveal its entire moveset. Ditto can also switch into myriad Pokemon immune to its their own primary STAB, or steal opposing utility moves ranging from Aromatherapy to Whirlwind.</p>

    <p>However, Ditto is far from perfect. How so, you ask? Ironically, Ditto is only as strong as its opponent, and this flaw allows Ditto to be at its worst in the weakest metagame. Most importantly, NU mainly lacks Speed-boosting setup Pokemon that Ditto can take advantage of. Calm Mind is perhaps the most common boosting move of in NU, and Ditto can do so little to prevent Calm Mind sweepers like Musharna from rampaging through your team. Other setup sweepers like Absol are also hard to revenge without exceptional prediction skills. Still, Ditto can easily revenge prominent threats such as Cinccino and Gorebyss, and acts as a reliable 'panic button' of sorts. But most importantly, Ditto is an incredibly fun Pokemon to use, and can provide you—and your Pokemon (I'm a bit confused by what you mean here; what do you mean by Ditto provides your Pokemon with fun? Because I don't really understand what that means)—with some good old-fashioned fun.</p>

    [SET]
    name: The Best Set Ever
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Imposter
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>No doubt, this is Ditto's best set. Imposter functions as a free Transform, immediately copying all base stats bar HP, all stat changes, and the target's exact moveset. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto turns into a monster revenge killer, as it can outspeed the opponent no matter what. Of course, Ditto will Speed tie against opposing Choice Scarf users, but Ditto can revenge set-up sweepers such as Shell Smash Gorebyss, or weather sweepers such as Growth Victreebel. Ditto can also revenge Pokemon like Cinccino and Emboar; since they are incredibly hard to switch into, Ditto can easily net a kill with proper prediction. Remember that Ditto is so frail, and that it is nearly impossible to switch it in (I'm not sure I fully agree with this; sure you aren't going to be tanking strong neutral or super effective hits, but the equivalent of 80 uninvested HP is enough to switch in on some weaker resisted moves at least). Still, Ditto can use the opposing immunity opponents' immunities in order to switch into threats like Choice Scarf Zebstrika. In a similar fashion, Ditto can switch into Sap Sipper Sawsbuck, but that is a rather risky move. Especially if you need Ditto for revenge killing duties, it may be better not to take such risks. For additional scouting, Ditto copies all four moves of the opponent, and can reveal any surprise coverage options from the opponent. If necessary, Ditto can even act as a lead, and steal an opposing entry hazard user. Ditto plays as a revenge killer, scout, and late-game cleaner all in one; because Ditto lacks any surprise moves or spreads, remember that Ditto will be only as good as how you play it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ditto's HP is maximized, since HP is the only stat that carries over after Transform. The remaining EVs does donot matter, unless except in rare cases that Ditto stays as a Ditto where Imposter fails. However, one of the things to really be careful of is the fact that Ditto does not fully copy the opponent. While this seems like an unimportant issue, Ditto has trouble revenging Swellow and other Guts sweepers like Zangoose (Zangoose doesn't have Guts as its ability, it has Toxic Boost) because Ditto will most likely not be poisoned. When revenging these threats, remember that an unboosted Swellow Brave Bird is shamefully weak, while an unboosted Zangoose Facade is not strong enough for a mirror match Zangoose. Similarly, Ditto is unable to revenge Unburden + Acrobat Drifblim, ironically because of its own Choice Scarf. Another difference is that Ditto keeps its Hidden Power type, but Hidden Power is a rare sight in NU, bar some specific Psychic-types and Gorebyss. Because Ditto does not stand a chance against the these Psychic-types, IVs corresponding to Hidden Power Grass are recommended in order to revenge kill opposing White Herb Gorebyss. Really, other than Gorebyss, there are few frail offensive Pokemon that uses use Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>The subtleties of playing with Ditto do not stop there. On a double switch, the faster Pokemon will switch out first. While this rarely matters, this is a crucial for Ditto, as Ditto copies the active opposing Pokemon the moment it is sent out. Using this, you can create lure double switches for non-mirror matchups using Ditto. This is incredibly unexpected, especially if Ditto's transformation target is not currently in (do you mean on?) your team. This also guarantees that Ditto can guarantee to will transform into a slow opponent. Usually, transforming into a slow opponent is a bad idea because Ditto only has 300 HP and is not bulky enough for most purposes. Still, you can switch Ditto into opposing Amoonguss relatively easily, if sleep clause is already active, and make sure that you can Spore an opponent and take it out of the match.</p>

    <p>It is rather difficult to recommend teammates for Ditto, mainly because Ditto will almost always be a different Pokemon. Still, Ditto mainly thrives against offensive teams that usually cannot take an attack from themselves. On the contrary Conversely, Ditto struggles against an overall bulky Pokemon like Musharna or Alomomola, as Ditto will be without any boosts most of the time. In general, hard-hitters such as Choice Band Emboar may break down opposing defensive cores so that Ditto can wreak havoc. If you happen to rely on Ditto to take care of opposing boosters, remember that Calm Mind users can bypass Ditto relatively easily. As a result, Ditto needs a teammate like Skuntank or Absol to handle opposing Calm Mind users. Cinccino is a great teammate for breaking possible Substitute users that restrict Ditto. Finally, Spikes users such as Cacturne are a great teammate, because Ditto tends to be slightly weaker than the opponent thanks to no Life Orb or other boosting items.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ditto has little few other options. It can choose a different Hidden Power type, but very few Pokemon in NU at the moment uses use Hidden Power as its their main option. For Moreover, those that do, like Duosion, Ditto has no reason to go up against generally beat Ditto anyway. Ditto can use something other than Choice Scarf, but without it Ditto will always face Speed ties, losing its most significant largest niche as a reliable revenge killer. Really, unless you have an unsavory mind or a fifth-grader imagination, there's very little else Ditto can do.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is hard, if not impossible, to name a single Ditto counter in a traditional sense—Ditto is not your average Pokemon, after all. The most natural thing would be trying to check whatever Ditto is at the moment. In fact, you know all of its moves, so you can rest easy that there are no surprises waiting for you. Not to mention, Ditto will almost always be holding a Choice Scarf, so if you can switch into a resistance, Ditto will certainly lose its momentum. Also, Ditto has no Life Orb or Choice Band, so there are a significant number of Pokemon that can take a single attack from itself themselves and hit back. Unless those Pokemon are worn down first, Ditto will have a hard time being effective.</p>

    <p>However, there are some things that Ditto will nearly always have trouble with. Substitute prevents Imposter from taking effect, making Ditto essentially useless. So, setup sweepers such as Substitute + Shell Smash Gorebyss or Substitute Klang are impossible to revenge with Ditto. Ditto takes damage from all hazards, and will be affected by Toxic Spikes even if it turns into a Poison- or Steel-type. By far the best way to check Ditto is a little thought. In your teambuilding, make sure that you can take advantage of opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon. If you have a Pokemon that beats your whole team with +1 Speed, do not allow Ditto to copy that Pokemon. When you see Ditto in Team Preview, hold on to your setup sweepers like Swords Dance Sawsbuck and Shell Smash Gorebyss, unless you are confident that you can revenge or somehow neuter the opposing Ditto. Also, be careful not to give Ditto entry hazards or sleep inducing moves, as they tend to be an incredible nuisance to face.</p>





    Just some grammar and a few writing recommendations. Recommended additions are in bold, recommended subtractions are struck through, and a couple comments I had are in italic. A few are probably subjective, so feel free to ignore any or all that you don't agree with. Also, I'd recommend considering running 248 HP EVs over 252 since you can switch in to stealth rock one more time with 299 HP than with 300.
  13. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Wow, I made a lot of agreement mistakes. And a ton of other things. What I get for not writing in a while. =/

    Read & Implemented
  14. melvni

    melvni
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    So I messed up and thought for some reason that 300/8 was a whole number (might have mixed up how any number that ends in 00 is divisible by 4 and how any number that ends in 000 is divisible by 8). You can run 248 to switch in four times if three layers of spikes are up or six times if two layers are up (versus three or five with 252), but I'm not sure if that's a common enough occurence to merit not running the extra four evs.
  15. sirndpt

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    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto, branded as a useless whore for the last (four?) generations, returns as a sassy pimp in all its pink and purple glory in an attempt to dominate the Pokemon world. Imposter allows Ditto to turn into the opponent bar item choice and HP without wasting a turn. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto will almost always be faster than the opponent, and functions as the best revenge killer there ever was. Does that not sound perfect enough? Ditto is also an all-star scout—the moment it transforms into the opponent, Ditto can reveal its entire moveset. Ditto can also switch into myriad Pokemon immune to their own primary STAB, or steal opposing utility moves ranging from Aromatherapy to Whirlwind.</p>

    <p>However, Ditto is far from perfect. How so, you ask? Ironically, Ditto is only as strong as its opponent, and this flaw allows Ditto to be at its worst in the weakest metagame. Most importantly, NU mainly lacks Speed-boosting setup Pokemon that Ditto can take advantage of. Calm Mind is perhaps the most common boosting move in NU, and Ditto can do little to prevent Calm Mind sweepers such as Musharna from rampaging through your team. Other setup sweepers, especially Absol, are also hard to revenge kill without exceptional prediction skills. Still, Ditto can easily revenge kill prominent threats such as Cinccino and Gorebyss, and acts as a reliable "panic button" of sorts. Most importantly, Ditto is an incredibly fun Pokemon to use,and can provide you—and your Pokemon—with some good old-fashioned fun.</p>

    [SET]
    name: The Best Set Ever
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Imposter
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is no doubt Ditto's best set. Imposter functions as a free Transform, immediately copying all base stats bar HP, all stat changes, and the target's exact moveset. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto turns into a monstrous revenge killer, as it can outspeed the opponent no matter what. Of course, Ditto will Speed tie with opposing Choice Scarf users, but it can revenge set-up sweepers such as Shell Smash Gorebyss and Belly Drum Linoone, as well as weather sweepers such as Growth Victreebel. With proper prediction, Ditto can also revenge kill the likes of Cinccino and Emboar, who are incredibly hard to switch into. Ditto can also use opponents' immunities in order to switch into threats like Choice Scarf Zebstrika. In a similar fashion, Ditto can switch into Sap Sipper Sawsbuck, though not without considerable risk. Keep in mind that Ditto is so frail that it is rather difficult to switch in outside of weak resisted hits such as Choice Scarf Sawk's Stone Edge. Especially if you need Ditto for revenge killing duties, it might be better to avoid such risks.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, Ditto can function as a scout as it can copy all the opponent's four moves, and can reveal any surprise coverage options. If necessary, Ditto can even act as a lead, and steal the ability to lay hazards from opposing (give some examples). Ditto plays as a revenge killer, scout, and late-game cleaner all in one; however, as Ditto lacks any surprise moves or spreads, remember that Ditto will be only as good as how you play it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ditto's HP is almost maximized, as HP is the only stat that carries over after transforming with Impostor; the 248 EVs allow Ditto to switch into Stealth Rock one more time. The remaining EVs do not matter, except in rare cases that Imposter fails.</p>

    <p>An important point to note is the fact that Ditto does not fully copy the opponent. While this might seem like an unimportant issue, Ditto has trouble revenge killing Guts sweepers such as Swellow and Zangoose because Ditto will most likely not be poisoned. When revenge killing these threats, remember that an unboosted Swellow's Brave Bird is shamefully weak, while an unboosted Zangoose's Facade is not strong enough to take down enemy Zangoose. Similarly, Ditto is unable to revenge Unburden + Acrobatics Drifblim, ironically because of its own Choice Scarf. Another difference is that Ditto keeps its Hidden Power type, but Hidden Power is a rare sight in NU bar some specific Psychic-types and Gorebyss. As Ditto does not stand a chance against these Psychic-types either way, IVs corresponding to Hidden Power Grass are recommended in order to revenge kill opposing White Herb Gorebyss. (should this be listed on the main set then?)</p>

    <p>The subtleties of playing with Ditto do not end there. On a double switch, the faster Pokemon will switch out first. While this rarely matters, this is crucial for Ditto, as Ditto copies the active opposing Pokemon the moment it is sent out. You can take advantage of this to lure double switches for non-mirror matchups using Ditto. This is incredibly unexpected, especially if Ditto's target is not currently on your team (i think you need to elaborate on this more or rephrase it? i don't really get it atm :x). This also guarantees that Ditto can transform into a slow opponent, if so desired. While transforming into a slow opponent is usually a bad idea because Ditto only has 300 HP and is not bulky enough for most purposes, you can switch Ditto into opposing Amoonguss relatively easily if Sleep Clause is already activated, and taken an opponent out of the match with Spore.</p>

    <p>It is rather difficult to recommend teammates for Ditto, mainly because Ditto will almost always be a different Pokemon. Still, Ditto mainly thrives against offensive teams that usually cannot take an attack from themselves. Conversely, Ditto struggles against bulky Pokemon such as Musharna and Alomomola, as Ditto will be without any boosts most of the time. In general, hard-hitters such as Choice Band Emboar can break down opposing defensive cores so that Ditto can wreak havoc. If you happen to rely on Ditto to take care of opposing stat-boosting sweepers, remember that Calm Mind users can bypass Ditto relatively easily. As a result, Ditto needs a teammate such as Skuntank or Absol to handle opposing Calm Mind users. Cinccino is a great teammate for breaking possible Substitute users that restrict Ditto. Finally, Spikes users such as Cacturne are great teammates because Ditto tends to be slightly weaker than the opponent thanks to its lack of a boosting item such as Life Orb.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ditto has few other options. It can choose a different Hidden Power type, but very few Pokemon in NU use Hidden Power as a main attacking option. Moreover, those that do, such as Duosion, generally beat Ditto anyway. Ditto can use something other than Choice Scarf, but Ditto will always face Speed ties without it, and loses its largest niche as a reliable revenge killer. Really, unless you have an unsavory mind or a fifth-grader's imagination, there's very little else Ditto can do.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is hard, if not impossible, to name a single Ditto counter in a traditional sense; Ditto is not your average Pokemon, after all. The most natural thing to do would be to try and check whatever Ditto is at the moment. In fact, you know all of its moves, so you can rest easy that there are no surprises waiting for you. Additionally, Ditto will almost always be holding a Choice Scarf, so if you can switch in a Pokemon that resists its chosen attack, Ditto will certainly lose its momentum. Furthermore, Ditto lacks a Life Orb or Choice Band, which further increases the number of Pokemon that can take an attack and hit back. Unless those Pokemon are worn down first, Ditto will have a hard time being effective.</p>

    <p>Nonetheless, there are some things that Ditto will nearly always have trouble with. Substitute, which prevents Imposter from taking effect, makes Ditto essentially useless; Ditto will hence find it impossible to revenge kill setup sweepers such as Substitute + Shell Smash Gorebyss and Substitute Klang. In addition, Ditto takes damage from all hazards, and will be affected by Toxic Spikes even if it turns into a Poison- or Steel-type.</p>

    <p>By far the best way to check Ditto, though, is a little thought. When building your team, make sure that you can take advantage of opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon. If you have a Pokemon that, when given +1 Speed, can beat your whole team, do not allow Ditto to copy that Pokemon. When you see Ditto in Team Preview, hold on to your Swords Dance Sawsbuck and Shell Smash Gorebyss, unless you are confident that you can revenge kill or somehow neuter the opposing Ditto. Finally, be careful not to give Ditto entry hazards or sleep-inducing moves, as they tend to be an incredible nuisance to face.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  16. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Hi I stopped being lazy and updated sirn's check.

    Hope that elaboration on the double switch was clear enough.
  17. melvni

    melvni
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    I noticed you left in the mention of Stealth Rock as a reason not to run absolutely maximum HP. As I tried to say in my earlier post, that was actually my mistake because for some reason I thought 300 was divisible by 8 and was thus a HP total to avoid for Stealth Rock. 300 is divisible by 4 and 6 however, so running the one less point of HP can be helpful for Spikes, but (as I mentioned above) I'm not sure how useful that is overall.

    Also, the set you currently have has 512 EVs.
  18. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Uh I used the spread with 1 less HP, mainly because that was the only HP Grass IV spread that I could find (PS Why no options for other HP spreads). If there's something else out there, I could probably change that.

    edit: yeah I know what you mean. Someone could change that, but then I'd have a 2-sentence paragraph?
  19. melvni

    melvni
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    I was referring to this line, which I think is left over from my incorrect suggestion.
  20. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Yeah I knew what that was about. I've 'fixed' it.

    Now that some time's passed may I remind GP people for a second check so that this gets up in time before the tier update etc.
  21. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    Amateur GP check, go!

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    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto, branded as a useless whore for the last four generations, returns as a sassy pimp in all its pink and purple glory in an attempt to dominate the Pokemon world. Its new Dream World ability, Imposter, allows Ditto to turn into the opponent bar item choice and HP without wasting a turn. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto will almost always be faster than the opponent, and functions as the best revenge killer there ever was. Does If that not didn't already sound perfect enough?, Ditto is also an all-star scout—the moment it transforms into the opponent, Ditto can reveal its opponent's entire moveset. Ditto can also switch into a myriad of (myriad normally means 10,000, but with "a" and "of" added it means "large or unspecified amount," which makes more sense) Pokemon immune to their own primary STAB, or steal opposing utility moves ranging from Aromatherapy to Whirlwind.</p>

    <p>However, Ditto is far from perfect. How so, you ask? Ironically, Ditto is only as strong as its opponent, and this flaw allows Ditto to be at its worst in the weakest metagame. Most importantly, NU mainly lacks Speed-boosting setup Pokemon that Ditto can take advantage of. Calm Mind is perhaps the most common boosting move in NU, and Ditto can do little to prevent Calm Mind sweepers such as Musharna from rampaging through your team. Other setup sweepers, especially Absol, are also hard to revenge kill without exceptional prediction skills. Still, Ditto can easily revenge kill prominent threats such as Cinccino and Gorebyss, and acts as a reliable "panic button" of sorts. Most importantly, Ditto is an incredibly fun Pokemon to use,(the comma and the "and" weren't separated by a space) and can provide you—and your Pokemon—with some good old-fashioned fun.</p>

    [SET]
    name: The Best Set Ever
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Imposter
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 30 HP / 30 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is no doubt Ditto's best set. Imposter functions as a free Transform, immediately copying all base stats bar HP, all stat changes, and the target's exact moveset. With a Choice Scarf, Ditto turns into a monstrous revenge killer, as it can outspeed the opponent no matter what. Of course, Ditto will Speed tie with opposing Choice Scarf users, but it can revenge set-up sweepers such as Shell Smash Gorebyss and Belly Drum Linoone, as well as weather sweepers such as Growth Victreebel. With proper prediction, Ditto can also revenge kill the likes of Cinccino and Emboar, who are incredibly hard to switch into. Additionally, Ditto can also use take advantage of an opponent's' immunities in order to switch into threats like Choice Scarf Zebstrika. In a similar fashion, Ditto can also switch into Sap Sipper Sawsbuck, though not without considerable risk. Keep in mind that Ditto is so frail that it is rather difficult to switch in outside of bring it in on anything other than weak resisted hits such as Choice Scarf Sawk's Stone Edge. (I really just couldn't stand to read the words "switch in" anymore) Especially Keep in mind that if you need Ditto for revenge killing duties, it might be better to avoid such risks.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, Ditto can function as a scout as it can copy all the opponent's four moves each of the opponent's moves, and can reveal any surprise coverage options. If necessary, Ditto can even act as a lead, and steal the ability to lay hazards from opposing Cacturne or Garbodor. Ditto plays as a revenge killer, scout, and late-game cleaner all in one; however, as Ditto lacks any surprise moves or spreads, remember that Ditto will be only as good as how you play it. (Honestly, I'm not sure how necessary this entire paragraph really is. Most of what you say here has already been stated in the overview, and any additional info could easily just go into the previous paragraph.)</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ditto's HP is almost maximized, as HP is the only stat that carries over after transforming with Impostor. The remaining EVs do not matter, except in rare cases that Imposter fails. The IVs let Ditto revenge kill Gorebyss with Hidden Power Grass, perhaps the most common threat that carries Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>An important point to note is the fact that Ditto does not fully copy the opponent. While this might seem like an unimportant issue, Ditto has trouble revenge killing Guts sweepers such as Swellow and Zangoose because Ditto will most likely not be poisoned. When revenge killing these threats, remember that an unboosted Swellow's Brave Bird is shamefully weak, while an unboosted Zangoose's Facade is not strong enough to take down enemy Zangoose. Similarly, Ditto is unable to revenge Unburden + Acrobatics Drifblim, ironically because of its own Choice Scarf. Another difference is that Ditto keeps its Hidden Power type, but Hidden Power is a rare sight in NU bar some specific Psychic-types and Gorebyss.</p>

    <p>The subtleties of playing with Ditto do not end there. On a double switch, the faster Pokemon will switch out first. While this rarely matters, this is crucial for Ditto, as Ditto copies the active opposing Pokemon the moment it is sent out. You can take advantage of this to lure double switches for non-mirror matchups using Ditto. For example, if you have an Emboar out against an opposing Amoonguss and you predict a switch to an opposing Alomomola, switching in Ditto will make it transform into the Amoonguss, instead of the Alomomola, because Emboar will switch out first. This is incredibly unexpected, especially if Ditto's target is not currently on your team. (I'm not sure if you worded that correctly, but I can't really tell) This also guarantees that Ditto can transform into a slow opponent, if so desired. While transforming into a slow opponent is usually a bad idea because Ditto only has 300 HP and is not bulky enough for most purposes to consistently take hits, you can switch Ditto into opposing Amoonguss relatively easily if Sleep Clause is already activated, and taken an after which you can effectively take one of your opponent's Pokemon out of the match with your own Spore.</p>

    <p>It is rather difficult to recommend teammates for Ditto, mainly because Ditto will almost always be a different Pokemon. Still, Ditto mainly thrives against offensive teams that usually cannot take an attack from themselves. Conversely, Ditto struggles against bulky Pokemon such as Musharna and Alomomola, as Ditto will be without any boosts most of the time. In general, hard-hitters such as Choice Band Emboar can break down opposing defensive cores so that Ditto can wreak havoc. If you happen to rely on Ditto to take care of opposing stat-boosting sweepers, remember that Calm Mind users can bypass Ditto relatively easily. As a result, Ditto needs a teammate such as Skuntank or Absol to handle opposing Calm Mind users. Cinccino is a great teammate for breaking possible Substitute users that restrict Ditto. Finally, Spikes users such as Cacturne are great teammates because Ditto tends to be slightly weaker than the opponent thanks to its lack of a boosting item such as Life Orb.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ditto has few other options. It can choose a different Hidden Power type, but very few Pokemon in NU use Hidden Power as a main attacking option. Moreover, those that do, such as Duosion, generally beat Ditto anyway. Ditto can use something other than Choice Scarf, but Ditto will always face Speed ties without it, and loses its largest niche as a reliable revenge killer. Really, unless you have an unsavory mind or a fifth-grader's imagination, there's very little else Ditto can do.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It is hard, if not impossible, to name a single Ditto counter in a traditional sense; Ditto is not your average Pokemon, after all. The most natural thing to do would be to try and check whatever Ditto is at the moment. In fact, you know all of its moves, so you can rest easy that there are no surprises waiting for you. Additionally, Ditto will almost always be holding a Choice Scarf, so if you can switch in a Pokemon that resists its chosen attack, Ditto will certainly lose its momentum. Furthermore, Ditto lacks a Life Orb or Choice Band, which further increases the number of Pokemon that can take an attack and hit back. Unless those Pokemon are worn down first, Ditto will have a hard time being effective.</p>

    <p>Nonetheless, there are some things that Ditto will nearly always have trouble with. Substitute, which prevents Imposter from taking effect, makes Ditto essentially useless; Ditto will hence find it impossible to revenge kill setup sweepers such as Substitute + Shell Smash Gorebyss and Substitute Klang. In addition, Ditto takes damage from all hazards, and will be affected by Toxic Spikes even if it turns into a Poison- or Steel-type.</p>

    <p>By far the best way to check Ditto, though, is a little thought. When building your team, make sure that you can take advantage of opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon. If you have a Pokemon that, when given +1 Speed, can beat your whole team, do not allow Ditto to copy that Pokemon. When you see Ditto in Team Preview, hold on to your Swords Dance Sawsbuck and Shell Smash Gorebyss, unless you are confident that you can revenge kill or somehow neuter the opposing Ditto. Finally, be careful not to give Ditto entry hazards or sleep-inducing moves, as they tend to be an incredible nuisance to face.(I couldn't find anything else wrong after checking the Additional Comments section. Good analysis! Well written and provided me with plenty of laughs.)</p>
  22. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Just a quick thing to add, you might want to mention that Imposter fails against Substitutes, so people know that important part about the ability. Just saying...
  23. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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  24. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    My mistake. Missed it in the section. Carry on.
  25. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    I was gone and didn't know this got a check. Updated.

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