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Ditto [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Mazz, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    [pimg]132[/pimg]
    Ditto

    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto has always been deemed a gimmick, even since its RBY days. The same went for the start of Generation V, where the same old Ditto was never competetively viable. Then came the shift to BW2, and with it came a new ability for Ditto, a saving grace that would bring it from the lowest depths of NU: Imposter. Imposter transforms Ditto upon switch in, rather than it wasting a turn using Transform. This ability is what launched Ditto from a useless gimmick into a ruthless revenge killer. Ditto is a setup sweeper's worst nightmare, and when equipped with a Choice Scarf, it can outspeed and kill almost everything in UU, provided it can switch in with minimal damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: REVENGE!
    move 1: Transform
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Imposter
    Nature: Sassy
    ivs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Taking revenge on anyone who ever deemed it useless, Ditto takes its new Dream world ability to become a potent revenge killer. Armed with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can come in, outspeed, and kill almost anything, bar Substitute users and Zoroark. Any boosting sweeper must think twice if they see Ditto on the opposing team, because after they grab some boosts and a kill, Ditto can come in and not only pocket a revenge kill, but also steal the boost and turn the sweep around. For example, Ditto can steal boosts from the likes of Dragon Dance Kingdra, Dragon Dance Scrafty, Swords Dance Heracross, Nasty Plot Houndoom, and Nasty Plot Azelf, even after a single kill. Its sweeping potential doesn't stop there — Ditto can switch in and threaten a range of LO attackers. Outside of its great revenge killing capabilities, Ditto can also steal entry hazards and further support moves from the opponent. Ditto can switch into the likes of Bronzong, Gligar, and Roserade, and set up Stealth Rock or Spikes — although this locks Ditto into a hazard move, it can prove to be incredibly useful in the long run. This is obviously the only moveset that Ditto can run, but Ditto doesn't need to worry about its own movepool because it will be using someone else's moves all of the time anyways.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Ditto copies the stats (bar HP) from its opponent, it seems odd to put much thought put into EV and IV spreads. They do have a purpose, however as HP is the only stat not copied when Imposter takes effect, thus EVs are maxed out. The remaining EVs only matter in one situation: Ditto switching in on Zoroark. Although this should never happen, Ditto still wants to have maxed Special Defense in case it needs to take a hit. The only effect of Ditto's IVs after Imposter takes effect is the type of its Hidden Power. This IV spread is chosen because it changes Hidden Power to a Ground-type move. This is useful in UU because there are two main users of Hidden Power: Raikou and Zapdos. Hidden Power Ground is Ditto's only way of getting past Raikou, and Zapdos is hit harder by its own Thunderbolt than any type of Hidden Power. 3 Speed IVs are are given to ensure the Base Power of Hidden Power is 70, while obtaining the lowest Speed possible. This is done for the only situation it could effect, Ditto vs. Ditto. In this situation, the faster Ditto loses because it runs out of PP first. Sassy is the nature of choice because it makes Ditto even slower, and helps Ditto take a hit from Zoroark. As for teammates, Ditto doesn't affect a team’s synergy, thus its team options are extremely varied. Any team that enjoys having a good revenge killer; is having trouble with setup sweepers; and has a free spot synergy wise; Ditto is a good teammate. Also, Ditto's ability to transform into the opponent's Stealth Rock user eliminates the need for a Stealth Rock user of your own. This can be a great help to free up team slots.</p>

    [Other Options]

    </p>Ditto has no other options. The only aspect worth changing would be the IV spread, which helps target different users of Hidden Power on the switch in. Below is a list of Hidden Power users and the best IV spreads for beating them</p>

    <ul>
    <li>Raikou: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ground (51.71 - 61.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO</li>
    <li>Zapdos: N/A, Thunderbolt (66.66 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits for the same damage as HP Ice/Rock)</li>
    <li>Lilligant: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (87.23 - 102.83%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO</li>
    <li>Shaymin: (Air Slash is more common than Hidden Power) 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (48.53 - 57.3%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The above IV Spread for Hidden Power Ice is probably the best alternative if your team is worried about Lilligant and Shaymin. That being said, Raikou is much more commonly seen with Hidden Power than the Grass Duo, so Hidden Power Ground is probably the best way to go. Theoretically, the item on the set could be changed, but it is usually ineffective because Ditto will always be relying on a speed tie, and outright losing to Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Ditto is ever-changing, there is no true counter to it. Scarf users are probably the biggest check because Ditto relies on being faster than the opponent to get a revenge kill; Choice Scarf users will always create a speed tie, only allowing Ditto to do its job 50% of the time. Imposter will fail if the opponent has a substitute, making users of said move are obvious checks; of course, the Substitute must be set up before Ditto switches in. If not, Ditto can just outspeed and attack before the move is used. Ditto is also largely susceptible to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ditto will be switching in and out a lot, and thus taking lots of entry hazard damage. This makes Ditto slightly less effective against teams that stack entry hazards.</p>
  2. Nas

    Nas Thinking of a master plan...
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    Should be Sassy nature with 0 Spe IV so you win the ditto v ditto matchup (faster one loses)
  3. Friar

    Friar

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    I don't think Ditto beats Bulk Up Scrafty unless you switch in as it Rests and Shed Skin is nice to you. Ditto has less HP, is faster (bad for trading Drain Punches), can't set up more, and can't Rest. You'll probably maim it badly, but Scrafty will come out on top barring crits.

    Also in other Ditto analyses I've seen they've included specific scenarios where you might get good use of Ditto. Like switching into Bronzong or Gligar to get an easy Stealth Rock, or into Grass-types to steal Spikes, Spore, or Aromatherapy depending on the opponent. There's a lot that you could go into, but some more of those scenarios would give this more substance than just revenging set-up sweepers, even if that's Ditto's main purpose.
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Can you elaborate about the bolded part?
  5. TSTEF

    TSTEF

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    It becomes a pp war when 2 Dittos are in on each other, and the faster Ditto will use transform each turn, running out of PP quicker and thus fainting first.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    But when you use Transform against, don't you turn into Ditto, which means that your pps get refreshed?
  7. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    The problems with 0 ivs is that you lose to another already transformed Ditto / opposing scarf pokemon in general (imposter/transform doesnt copy the ivs). Let's say you switch Ditto against Scarf Flygon. If you have 0 speeds ivs, you will be slower than Flygon and you will lose , while if you have 31 speed ivs, you are speed tying.
  8. steviestar

    steviestar

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    IVs should be 31/30/30/31/31/31 for HP ice, it's more important than Ditto vs Ditto. Also 248 HP evs should be used to allow for more SR switch-ins with the rest thrown into defense for Ditto vs Ditto (is there a point to investing special defensively for Zoroark? I'm pretty sure Illusion blocks Transform so you're SOL anyway.)
  9. DestinyUnknown

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    Regarding the Hidden Power thing, the analisys should mention what types of Hidden Power are worth using (and the iv combination) regarding what pokemon usually carry Hidden Power so you can revenge them (think of suicune or shaymin)
  10. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    You probably want Hidden Power Ground on Ditto (30 SpA / 30 SpD / 2 Spe), as Raikou and Zapdos are the only notable users of Hidden Power in the tier and Zapdos is hit harder by Thunderbolt anyway. It's going to be fairly useless vs CM Raikou, but it could come in handy against non-CM versions, I suppose.

    As for EVs, there's no reason to not just run 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (300 is not divisible by 8 and we shouldn't assume SR and Spikes, we we keep 252 HP). This will probably never matter, but I suppose it gives you a better chance to tank a hit from Zoroark or whatever.

    Finally, you definitely wanna do what Friar said and just mention other possible items in OO. You'll always be Speed-tying, but 'whatever'--just make sure you emphasize it's not a very good idea.
  11. TSTEF

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    Just wondering Koko, wont that IV spread have you slower than Scarfers? With 31 Speed IVs, Ditto will still be tying with scarfers and have a 50% chance of a kill/revenge in most cases? I like the idea of carrying HP Ground, as the only threat that uses HP that isnt already hit hard by another mo is Raikou. I feel like having a chance to beat Scarf users is more important than beating Ditto and Raikou.

    Edit: Anyway, Made most of the changes, and talked about some other possible IV spreads to deal with some other HP users. If you guys know of any other HP users in UU, let me know, I cant think of them at the moment if there are any.
  12. steviestar

    steviestar

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    From reading the OU Ditto analysis thread I think this is how it works:

    Imposter copies the opponent's stats exactly, including their IVs, so the 2 spe won't affect speed ties at all. However hidden power is still determined by Ditto's original IVs. So outside of hidden power the 2 speed IV only comes into play if Ditto fails to transform for whatever reason.
  13. TSTEF

    TSTEF

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    Ok, that makes sense. So we want the speed IVs to be as low as possible, while still having HP ground, or another HP. Ill edit the OP accordingly.
  14. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Speed tying with an opposing scarfer is indescribably more important than Ditto v. Ditto matches. Speed IV needs to be 31, no less. The nature should be Sassy / Relaxed with the appropriate EVs in the appropriate stat.
  15. Great Sage

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    This is not relevant. Ditto copies the opponent's exact Speed stat, regardless of its IVs.
  16. kokoloko

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    3 IV in Spe, not 2 or 1 (I made a mistake in my earlier post). We want a 70 BP Hidden Power.

    Shaymin's the only other notable thing you'd want to hit with it's own Hidden Power in UU, so Ice is also okay I suppose. However, Shaymin commonly carries Air Slash / Psychic over Hidden Power now, so it's barely worth noting.

    Anyway,

    QC Approved 1/3
  17. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone

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    I think HP Ground is by far the most viable since it allows you to revenge CM Raikou, who otherwise walls itself. The OP looks good to go.

    QC Approved 2/3
  18. Ginku

    Ginku Farbenprächtig
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  19. PK Gaming

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    Don't forget to mention that Ditto is susceptible to entry hazards(especially Toxic Spikes). It's going to be switching in and out a LOT, so a little mention in counters & checks of it being slightly less effective against spike stacking teams should be good.
  20. TSTEF

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    Thanks guys, I'll write this up soon. I'll make sure to mention entry hazards as well.
  21. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    [​IMG]
    Copyediting (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto has always been deemed a gimmick. The poor little blob has been around since the RBY days, and he it never was even concidered to be used. The same went for the start of Generation V, and the same old Ditto was still not viable in any tier, not even NU. Then came the shift to BW2, and with it came a new ability for Ditto, a saving grace that would bring him right out from the lowest depths of NU. The new dream world ability Ditto obtained was Imposter, an ability that essentially uses the move tTransform (Transform is a move, so it would be capitalized) upon switch itn, rather than having to take a turn using it. This ability is what took Ditto from a useless gimmick to a ruthless revenge killer. He It is a setup sweeper's worst nightmare, and when equipped with a choice scarf, Ditto can outspeed and kill almost everything in UU, provided that he can switch in with minimal damage. </p>

    [SET]
    name: REVENGE!
    move 1: Transform
    move 2: None
    Move 3: None
    Move 4: None
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Imposter
    Nature: Sassy
    ivs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>ASs if taking revenge on anyone who ever deemed him useless, Ditto takes his its new Dream world ability to become a potent revenge killer. Armed with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can come in, outspeed, and kill almost anything, bar Substitute users and Zoroark. Any boosting sweeper must think twice if they see Ditto on the opposing team, as because after they grab some boosts and a kill, he Ditto can come in and not only pocket a revenge kill, but also steal the boost and turn the sweep right around. Things For example, Pokemon like DD Kingdra, Scarfty (Bboth Bulk Up and DD) SD Heracross, NP Houndoom, and NP Azelf are just a few of the things Pokemon that Ditto can easily steal boosts from after a single kill. His Its killing abilities don't stop there, as Ditto can switch in and murder all kinds of all out LO attackers, or virtually any pPokemon that doesn't have a heavy reliance on thier their item and have a move they can kill themselves with. Also, not only does he Ditto have great revenge killing capabilities, but Ditto it also has a great quality in his its ability to steal hazards from the opponent. He Ditto can come in on the likes of Bronzong, Gligar, Swampert, or even Roserade and lay set up Stealth Rocks or Spikes. Although,Add Comma this does require Ditto to be locked into a hazard move, it can prove to be incredibly useful. This is obviously the only moveset that Ditto can run, as his its movepool is limited to one move. That being said, he Ditto isn't doesn't need to worriedy about his its own movepool, because he Ditto will be using someone else's moves nearly all of the time.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Ditto copies the stats (bar HP) from his the opponent, Iit seems odd to have to have this much thought put into an EV and IV spreads. They do have a purpouse,Add comma however, even if it is small. As HP is the only stat not copied when Imposter takes effect, the EV's in that stat are maxed out. The rest of the EV's really only matters for one situation, Ditto switching in on a Zoroark. Although this will almost never happen, Ditto still wants to have a maxed SpD Special Defense to try and take a hit. However, Iif this does happen, however, Ditto is pretty much out of luck anyway. The only thing Ditto's IV's effect after transformation is the type of his Hidden Power The only effect of Ditto's IVs is the type of its Hidden Power. This IvV spread is chosen because it changes Hidden Power to a Ground-type move. This is useful in UU because there are two main users of Hidden Power, Raikou and Zapdos. HP Ground is Ditto's Add apostrophe only way of getting past Raikou, and Zapdos is hit harder by its own tThunderbolt than any type of Hidden Power. 3 Speed EV's is chosen because it keeps the base power of Hidden Power at 70, while obtaining the lowest speed possible. This is done to be prepared for the only situation it could effect, Ditto vs. Ditto. In this situation, the faster Ditto loses because he it runs out of PP on transform sooner first. Sassy is the natue of choice because it makes Ditto even slower, and tries to help ditto take a hit from Zoroark. As for team options, Ditto really doesn't effect a teams synergy, thus team options are extremely varied. Any team that enjoys having a good revenge killer,; is haveing trouble with setup sweepers,; and has a free spot free synergy wise, Ditto is a good teammate. Also, Ditto'apostrophes ability to transform into the opponent's Stealth Rocker, he it can usually eliminate the need for a Rocker of your own. This can be a great help to free up team slots.</p>


    [Other Options]

    </p>Ditto basically has no other options other than the above set. The only thing that is even aspect worth changing could be the IV spread, and this only helps to target different users of Hidden Power on the switch in. Below is a list of Hidden Power users and the best IV spreads for beating them:

    -Raikou: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ground (51.71 - 61.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    -Zapdos: N/A, Thunderbolt (66.66 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits for the same Damage as HP Ice/Rock)

    -Lilligant: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (87.23 - 102.83%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

    -Shaymin: (Air Slash is more common that Hidden Power) 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (48.53 - 57.3%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO

    Therefore, Add comma the above IV Spread for HP Ice is probably the best alternative to use, if you team is more worried about revenge killing Lilligant and Shaymin than Raikou. That being said, Raikou is much more commonly seen with HP thatan the Grass Duo, so HP Ground is probably the best way to go. Theoretically, the item on the set could be changed, but it is usually largely innefective ineffective as Ditto will always be relying on a speed tie, and outright losing to Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Ditto is ever-changing, there is really no true counter to him it. Scarf users are probably the biggest check because of the fact that Ditto relys on outspeeding the opponent to get a revenge kill, and Choice Scarf users will always create a speed tie, only allowing ditto to do his its job 50% of the time. As Imposter will not work if the opponent has a substitute up, users of said move are obvious checks, but only if the Substitute was set up before Ditto switches in. If not, he Ditto ambiguous 'it' can just outspeed and attack before the move is used. Ditto is also largely succeptable to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ditto will be switching in and out alot, and thus taking lots of entry hazard damage. This makes Ditto slightly less effective against Spikestacking teams.</p>



    C/P (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto has always been deemed a gimmick. The poor little blob has been around since RBY, and it never was used. The same went for the start of Generation V, and the same old Ditto was still not viable in any tier, not even NU. Then came the shift to BW2, and with it came a new ability for Ditto, a saving grace that would bring him right out from the lowest depths of NU. Ditto obtained Imposter, an ability that essentially uses the move Transform upon switch in, rather than having to take a turn using it. This ability is what took Ditto from a useless gimmick to a ruthless revenge killer. It is a setup sweeper's worst nightmare, and when equipped with a choice scarf, Ditto can outspeed and kill almost everything in UU, provided that he can switch in with minimal damage. </p>

    [SET]
    name: REVENGE!
    move 1: Transform
    move 2: None
    Move 3: None
    Move 4: None
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Imposter
    Nature: Sassy
    ivs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As if taking revenge on anyone who ever deemed him useless, Ditto takes its new Dream world ability to become a potent revenge killer. Armed with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can come in, outspeed, and kill almost anything, bar Substitute users and Zoroark. Any boosting sweeper must think twice if they see Ditto on the opposing team, because after they grab some boosts and a kill, Ditto can come in and not only pocket a revenge kill, but also steal the boost and turn the sweep around. For example, Pokemon like DD Kingdra, Scarfty (both Bulk Up and DD) SD Heracross, NP Houndoom, and NP Azelf are just a few of the Pokemon that Ditto can easily steal boosts from after a single kill. Its killing abilities don't stop there, as Ditto can switch in and murder all kinds of LO attackers, or virtually any Pokemon that doesn't have a heavy reliance on their item and a move they can kill themselves with. Also, not only does Ditto have great revenge killing capabilities, but it also has a great quality in its ability to steal hazards from the opponent. Ditto can come in on the likes of Bronzong, Gligar, Swampert, or even Roserade and set up Stealth Rocks or Spikes. Although, this does require Ditto to be locked into a hazard move, it can prove to be incredibly useful. This is obviously the only moveset that Ditto can run, as its movepool is limited to one move. That being said, Ditto doesn't need to worry about its own movepool because Ditto will be using someone else's moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Ditto copies the stats (bar HP) from the opponent, it seems odd to have this much thought put into EV and IV spreads. They do have a purpose, however, even if it is small. As HP is the only stat not copied when Imposter takes effect, the EV's in that stat are maxed out. The rest of the EV's only matters for one situation, Ditto switching in on Zoroark. Although this will never happen, Ditto still wants to have a maxed Special Defense to try and take a hit. However, if this does happen, Ditto is pretty much out of luck. The only effect of Ditto's IVs is the type of its Hidden Power. This IV spread is chosen because it changes Hidden Power to a Ground-type move. This is useful in UU because there are two main users of Hidden Power, Raikou and Zapdos. HP Ground is Ditto's only way of getting past Raikou, and Zapdos is hit harder by its own Thunderbolt than any type of Hidden Power. 3 Speed EV's is chosen because it keeps the base power of Hidden Power at 70, while obtaining the lowest speed possible. This is done for the only situation it could effect, Ditto vs. Ditto. In this situation, the faster Ditto loses because it runs out of PP first. Sassy is the natue of choice because it makes Ditto even slower, and tries to help ditto take a hit from Zoroark. As for team options, Ditto doesn't effect a teams synergy, thus team options are extremely varied. Any team that enjoys having a good revenge killer; is having trouble with setup sweepers; and has a free spot synergy wise, Ditto is a good teammate. Also, Ditto's ability to transform into the opponent's Stealth Rocker, it can usually eliminate the need for a Rocker of your own. This can be a great help to free up team slots.</p>

    [Other Options]

    </p>Ditto basically has no other options other than the above set. The only aspect worth changing could be the IV spread, and helps to target different users of Hidden Power on the switch in. Below is a list of Hidden Power users and the best IV spreads for beating them:

    -Raikou: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ground (51.71 - 61.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    -Zapdos: N/A, Thunderbolt (66.66 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits for the same Damage as HP Ice/Rock)

    -Lilligant: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (87.23 - 102.83%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

    -Shaymin: (Air Slash is more common that Hidden Power) 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (48.53 - 57.3%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO

    Therefore, the above IV Spread for HP Ice is probably the best alternative to use, if you team is more worried about revenge killing Lilligant and Shaymin than Raikou. That being said, Raikou is much more commonly seen with HP than the Grass Duo, so HP Ground is probably the best way to go. Theoretically, the item on the set could be changed, but it is usually ineffective as Ditto will always be relying on a speed tie, and outright losing to Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Ditto is ever-changing, there is no true counter to it. Scarf users are probably the biggest check because of the fact that Ditto relys on outspeeding the opponent to get a revenge kill, and Choice Scarf users will always create a speed tie, only allowing ditto to do its job 50% of the time. As Imposter will not work if the opponent has a substitute, users of said move are obvious checks, but only if the Substitute was set before Ditto switches in. If not, Ditto can just outspeed and attack before the move is used. Ditto is also largely succeptable to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ditto will be switching in and out alot, and thus taking lots of entry hazard damage. This makes Ditto slightly less effective against Spikestacking teams.</p>




    Just a few things to say:

    -If possible always use the neutered form (it) rather than s/he, unless the object is always fe/male. ie: Nidoqueen and Nidoking
    -There were some spelling mistakes, so in the future I'd advise using Word first then Copy + pasting here.
    -I c/p'ed the fixes I made

    Nice job writing this! ^_^
  22. TSTEF

    TSTEF

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    Thanks Yonko!
  23. Friar

    Friar

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    The part about Ditto beating Bulk Up Scrafty is still in there, have you actually beat a Bulk Up Scrafty with Ditto? I can't see it working.

    Also, amateur grammar check:

    bold for changes because I'm an unhelpful motherfucker (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto has always been deemed a gimmick. The poor little blob has been around since RBY, and it was never used. The same went for the start of Generation V, and the same old Ditto was still not viable in any tier, not even NU. Then came the shift to BW2, and with it came a new ability for Ditto, a saving grace that would bring him right out from the lowest depths of NU. Ditto obtained Imposter, an ability that essentially uses the move Transform upon switch in, rather than having to take a turn using it. This ability is what took Ditto from a useless gimmick to a ruthless revenge killer. It is a setup sweeper's worst nightmare, and when equipped with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can outspeed and kill almost everything in UU, provided that it can switch in with minimal damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: REVENGE!
    move 1: Transform
    move 2: None
    Move 3: None
    Move 4: None
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Imposter
    Nature: Sassy
    ivs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As if taking revenge on anyone who ever deemed him useless, Ditto takes its new Dream world ability to become a potent revenge killer. Armed with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can come in, outspeed, and kill almost anything, bar Substitute users and Zoroark. Any boosting sweeper must think twice if they see Ditto on the opposing team, because after they grab some boosts and a kill, Ditto can come in and not only pocket a revenge kill, but also steal the boost and turn the sweep around. For example, Pokemon like DD Kingdra, Scrafty (both Bulk Up and DD) SD Heracross, NP Houndoom, and NP Azelf are just a few of the Pokemon that Ditto can easily steal boosts from after a single kill. Its killing abilities don't stop there, as Ditto can switch in and murder all kinds of LO attackers, or virtually any Pokemon that doesn't have a heavy reliance on their item and a move they can kill themselves with. (remove “Also,”) Not only does Ditto have great revenge killing capabilities, but it also has the ability to steal hazards from the opponent. Ditto can come in on the likes of Bronzong, Gligar, Swampert, or even Roserade and set up Stealth Rock (remove the “s”) or Spikes. Although (no comma) this requires Ditto to be locked into a hazard move, it can prove to be incredibly useful. This is obviously the only moveset that Ditto can run, as its movepool is limited to one move. That being said, Ditto doesn't need to worry about its own movepool because Ditto will be using someone else's moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Ditto copies the stats (bar HP) from the opponent, it seems odd to have this much thought put into EV and IV spreads. They do have a purpose, however, even if it is small. As HP is the only stat not copied when Imposter takes effect, the EVs (no apostrophe) in that stat are maxed out. The rest of the EVs only matters for one situation, Ditto switching in on Zoroark. Although this should never happen, Ditto still wants to have (remove “a”) maxed Special Defense to try and take a hit. However, if this does happen, Ditto is pretty much out of luck. The only effect of Ditto's IVs is the type of its Hidden Power. This IV spread is chosen because it changes Hidden Power to a Ground-type move. This is useful in UU because there are two main users of Hidden Power, Raikou and Zapdos. HP Ground is Ditto's only way of getting past Raikou, and Zapdos is hit harder by its own Thunderbolt than any type of Hidden Power. 3 Speed EVs are chosen because it keeps the base power of Hidden Power at 70, while obtaining the lowest speed possible. This is done for the only situation it could effect, Ditto vs. Ditto. In this situation, the faster Ditto loses because it runs out of PP first. Sassy is the nature of choice because it makes Ditto even slower, and helps Ditto take a hit from Zoroark. As for team options, Ditto doesn't effect a team’s synergy, thus team options are extremely varied. Any team that enjoys having a good revenge killer; is having trouble with setup sweepers; and has a free spot synergy wise, Ditto is a good teammate. Also, because of Ditto's ability to transform into the opponent's Stealth Rocker, it can usually eliminate the need for a Rocker of your own. This can be a great help to free up team slots.</p>

    [Other Options]

    </p>Ditto basically has no other options other than the above set. The only aspect worth changing could be the IV spread, which helps to target different users of Hidden Power on the switch in. Below is a list of Hidden Power users and the best IV spreads for beating them:

    -Raikou: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ground (51.71 - 61.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    -Zapdos: N/A, Thunderbolt (66.66 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits for the same damage as HP Ice/Rock)

    -Lilligant: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (87.23 - 102.83%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

    -Shaymin: (Air Slash is more common than Hidden Power) 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (48.53 - 57.3%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO

    Therefore, the above IV Spread for HP Ice is probably the best alternative to use (no comma) if your team is more worried about revenge killing Lilligant and Shaymin than Raikou. That being said, Raikou is much more commonly seen with Hidden Power than the Grass Duo, so HP Ground is probably the best way to go. Theoretically, the item on the set could be changed, but it is usually ineffective to do so because Ditto will always be relying on a speed tie, and outright losing to Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Ditto is ever-changing, there is no true counter to it. Scarf users are probably the biggest check because (remove "of the fast that") Ditto relies on being faster than the opponent to get a revenge kill, and Choice Scarf users will always create a speed tie, only allowing Ditto to do its job 50% of the time. As Imposter will not work if the opponent has a substitute, users of said move are obvious checks, but only if the substitute was set before Ditto switches in. If not, Ditto can just outspeed and attack before the move is used. Ditto is also largely susceptible to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ditto will be switching in and out a lot, and thus taking lots of entry hazard damage. This makes Ditto slightly less effective against teams that stack entry hazards.</p>


    edit: ok I made a copy/paste (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Ditto has always been deemed a gimmick. The poor little blob has been around since RBY, and it was never used. The same went for the start of Generation V, and the same old Ditto was still not viable in any tier, not even NU. Then came the shift to BW2, and with it came a new ability for Ditto, a saving grace that would bring him right out from the lowest depths of NU. Ditto obtained Imposter, an ability that essentially uses the move Transform upon switch in, rather than having to take a turn using it. This ability is what took Ditto from a useless gimmick to a ruthless revenge killer. It is a setup sweeper's worst nightmare, and when equipped with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can outspeed and kill almost everything in UU, provided that it can switch in with minimal damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: REVENGE!
    move 1: Transform
    move 2: None
    Move 3: None
    Move 4: None
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Imposter
    Nature: Sassy
    ivs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As if taking revenge on anyone who ever deemed him useless, Ditto takes its new Dream world ability to become a potent revenge killer. Armed with a Choice Scarf, Ditto can come in, outspeed, and kill almost anything, bar Substitute users and Zoroark. Any boosting sweeper must think twice if they see Ditto on the opposing team, because after they grab some boosts and a kill, Ditto can come in and not only pocket a revenge kill, but also steal the boost and turn the sweep around. For example, Pokemon like DD Kingdra, Scrafty (both Bulk Up and DD) SD Heracross, NP Houndoom, and NP Azelf are just a few of the Pokemon that Ditto can easily steal boosts from after a single kill. Its killing abilities don't stop there, as Ditto can switch in and murder all kinds of LO attackers, or virtually any Pokemon that doesn't have a heavy reliance on their item and a move they can kill themselves with. Not only does Ditto have great revenge killing capabilities, but it also has the ability to steal hazards from the opponent. Ditto can come in on the likes of Bronzong, Gligar, Swampert, or even Roserade and set up Stealth Rock or Spikes. Although this requires Ditto to be locked into a hazard move, it can prove to be incredibly useful. This is obviously the only moveset that Ditto can run, as its movepool is limited to one move. That being said, Ditto doesn't need to worry about its own movepool because Ditto will be using someone else's moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Ditto copies the stats (bar HP) from the opponent, it seems odd to have this much thought put into EV and IV spreads. They do have a purpose, however, even if it is small. As HP is the only stat not copied when Imposter takes effect, the EVs in that stat are maxed out. The rest of the EVs only matters for one situation, Ditto switching in on Zoroark. Although this should never happen, Ditto still wants to have maxed Special Defense to try and take a hit. However, if this does happen, Ditto is pretty much out of luck. The only effect of Ditto's IVs is the type of its Hidden Power. This IV spread is chosen because it changes Hidden Power to a Ground-type move. This is useful in UU because there are two main users of Hidden Power, Raikou and Zapdos. HP Ground is Ditto's only way of getting past Raikou, and Zapdos is hit harder by its own Thunderbolt than any type of Hidden Power. 3 Speed EVs are chosen because it keeps the base power of Hidden Power at 70, while obtaining the lowest speed possible. This is done for the only situation it could effect, Ditto vs. Ditto. In this situation, the faster Ditto loses because it runs out of PP first. Sassy is the nature of choice because it makes Ditto even slower, and helps Ditto take a hit from Zoroark. As for team options, Ditto doesn't effect a team’s synergy, thus team options are extremely varied. Any team that enjoys having a good revenge killer; is having trouble with setup sweepers; and has a free spot synergy wise, Ditto is a good teammate. Also, because of Ditto's ability to transform into the opponent's Stealth Rocker, it can usually eliminate the need for a Rocker of your own. This can be a great help to free up team slots.</p>

    [Other Options]

    </p>Ditto basically has no other options other than the above set. The only aspect worth changing could be the IV spread, which helps to target different users of Hidden Power on the switch in. Below is a list of Hidden Power users and the best IV spreads for beating them:

    -Raikou: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 3 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ground (51.71 - 61.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    -Zapdos: N/A, Thunderbolt (66.66 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits for the same damage as HP Ice/Rock)

    -Lilligant: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (87.23 - 102.83%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

    -Shaymin: (Air Slash is more common than Hidden Power) 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpA / 31 SpD / 2 Spe [Lowest Speed Possible w/ Base 70] HP Ice (48.53 - 57.3%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO

    Therefore, the above IV Spread for HP Ice is probably the best alternative to use if your team is more worried about revenge killing Lilligant and Shaymin than Raikou. That being said, Raikou is much more commonly seen with Hidden Power than the Grass Duo, so HP Ground is probably the best way to go. Theoretically, the item on the set could be changed, but it is usually ineffective to do so because Ditto will always be relying on a speed tie, and outright losing to Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Ditto is ever-changing, there is no true counter to it. Scarf users are probably the biggest check because Ditto relies on being faster than the opponent to get a revenge kill, and Choice Scarf users will always create a speed tie, only allowing Ditto to do its job 50% of the time. As Imposter will not work if the opponent has a substitute, users of said move are obvious checks, but only if the substitute was set before Ditto switches in. If not, Ditto can just out speed and attack before the move is used. Ditto is also largely susceptible to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ditto will be switching in and out a lot, and thus taking lots of entry hazard damage. This makes Ditto slightly less effective against teams that stack entry hazards.</p>
  24. TSTEF

    TSTEF

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Ditto's Drain Punch vs. Scrafty: 134-158 (40.11 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HK0

    Scrafty's Drain Punch vs. Ditto: 134-158 (44.66 - 52.66%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Both moves 3HKO after any amount of bulk ups that Ditto switches into, so without switching into a Bulk Up, Ditto Wins because of speed. This Means Ditto can revenge kill BU Scrafty. As for switching in on a Bulk Up:

    +0 Ditto's Drain Punch vs. +1 Scrafty: 90-108 (27.77 - 33.33%) -- possible 4HKO

    +1 Scrafty's Drain Punch vs. +0 Ditto: 200-236 (66.66 - 78.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So yeah, Ditto can revenge Scrafty, but it cant come in on a bulk up and get the kill. Youre right about that part, but Ill keep BU Scrafty in there because ditto can revenge it and steal its BU boosts.

    Oh, and thanks for the Grammar check
  25. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    Situation: Scrafty has killed something. Ditto switches in and copies all stats except HP. We will assume that both Pokemon are at equal boosts, full HP (not outlandish because Scrafty has Drain Punch), and are trading Drain Punches doing average damage based off your calcs. Ditto holds Choice Scarf and Scrafty holds Leftovers

    1st turn -
    Ditto used Drain Punch!
    Scrafty lost 146 HP!
    Scrafty used Drain Punch!
    Ditto lost 146 HP!
    Scrafty healed 73 HP!
    Scrafty heals 20 HP with Leftovers!

    End of first turn - Scrafty has 281 HP, Ditto has 154 HP (because Ditto is faster, it will never have more than 166 HP against Scrafty after the first turn)

    2nd turn-
    Ditto hits Drain punch, dealing 146 damage, healing 73 (Scrafty at 135, Ditto at 227)
    Scrafty hits Drain Punch, dealing 146, heal 73 (Scrafty at 208, Ditto at 81)
    Scrafty heals 20 HP with Leftovers
    End of second turn (Scrafty at 228, Ditto at 81)

    3rd turn-
    End of Ditto's Drain Punch leaves Scrafty with 82 and Ditto with 154
    Scrafty Drain Punch leaves Scrafty with 155 and Ditto with 8
    Scrafty heals with Leftovers
    End of turn - Scrafty at 175, Ditto with 8

    4th turn -
    Ditto hits DP - Scrafty to 29, Ditto to 81
    Scrafty hits Drain Punch - Ditto dies, heals 40 to 69
    Scrafty heals with Leftovers to 89

    So, Ditto knocks it down to about 25% health and dies in the process. I guess that's easily revenge kill area, so it for sure won't sweep you. Plus, if Scrafty has lost 29 HP before Ditto comes in it won't survive the 4th Drain Punch based on average damage.

    ---

    Same scenario, but Scrafty uses Bulk Up turn 1

    End of Turn 1 - Scrafty has 208 HP, Ditto has 334 Hp

    Turn 2 - Scrafty knocked to 104 HP, Then deals 218 to knock Ditto to 82, healing 109 to 217
    Leftovers
    End of turn 2 - Scrafty at 237, Ditto at 82

    Turn 3 - Scrafty hit to 133, Ditto heals to 134
    Scrafty Drain Punches for the kill, healing 67 to 200
    Leftovers
    End of turn - Scrafty has 220 HP, Ditto is dead

    By Bulking up turn 1 against Ditto, Scrafty will only lose about a third of its health and have another boost to take on the rest of the team with

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