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OU Ditto

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Alter, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] / --
    Ditto | #132

    [BW2 Smogon | Serebii | Bulbapedia]
    Overview
    ########
    By virtue of its Hidden ability, Ditto makes for one of the greatest revenge killers in the game. This ability, Imposter, allows Ditto to instantly transform into the Pokemon it switches into, copying said Pokemon's moves, ability, and typing in addition to every stat except HP. This not only allows Ditto be an excellent revenge killer with a Choice Scarf but also lets it scout movesets for unpredictable Pokemon, such as Deoxys-S and Aegislash. Ditto can also perform well on teams that have a weakness to setup sweepers because it naturally deters the opponent from setting up. Ditto also has the ability to copy an opponent's Mega Pokemon, potentially allowing the use of two Mega Pokemon on a team at once. Outside of these roles, Ditto can do very little, and as a result it is a very one-dimensional Pokemon. Additionally, Ditto's HP stat is pitifully low, something only made worse by its susceptibility to every damaging entry hazard. Ditto also struggles to perform effectively against more defensively inclined teams, making it hard to fit into a team slot.

    Imposter
    ########
    name: Imposter
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    There's little to address when talking about Ditto's moves; Transform is its only legal one. It is used on this set because it is impossible for a Pokemon to have no moves. Its only real use is preventing Ditto from using Struggle immediately if Imposter fails.

    Set Details
    ========
    A Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto, as it ensures that Ditto can outspeed the setup sweepers which it transforms into. No other item can possibly replace the utility provided by a Choice Scarf. The HP stat should be invested into when using a Ditto as much as possible, as HP is the only stat that transfers over upon Imposter activation. 248 EVs in HP makes Ditto hit a Stealth Rock number, which means Ditto will be hurt slightly less by some forms of residual damage. Maximum investment in Defense decreases damage that Ditto takes from a Struggle war with another Ditto. A Relaxed nature is used to obtain the lowest Speed for the possible, albeit rare, Struggle war mentioned previously. Ditto also uses minimum Speed IVs for this reason and to give itself a Hidden Power type of Ice to revenge kill threats such as Thundurus and Landorus.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    As a revenge killer, Ditto is best brought out in response to a Pokemon fainting or from a teammate's successful U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass. It is best only to attempt to revenge kill with Ditto, because if it switches in as a Pokemon sets up, it won't get the stat boosts and is likely to lose the matchup. If one is using Ditto to revenge kill a Pokemon that has not revealed any status moves, it is worth considering if the opponent also has a Choice Scarf. If both Pokemon possess a Choice Scarf, the turn order is based on a coin flip and one might wind up losing their Ditto. Alternatively, you can also use Ditto to scout and check the movesets of opponents so that you know what to expect later in the game. This is particularly useful for Pokemon such as Jirachi, which can run a large variety of movesets. Ditto can also be used to copy an opposing Mega Pokemon that threatens itself and attempt to sweep the opponent, such as Mega Pinsir or Mega Garchomp. Good use of this ability can let you overwhelm your opponent with both a copied Mega Pokemon as well as your own. Ditto is a Pokemon that generally struggles against stall; in spite of this, if against a stall team, one can make use of Ditto to steal or eliminate the opponent's entry hazards.

    Team Options
    ========
    Even though Ditto is generally a Pokemon that glues together a team rather than being built around, there are a few distinct Pokemon that it works well with. Primarily, due to Ditto's susceptibility to entry hazards, a Pokemon with Defog or Rapid Spin can be an excellent teammate. Forretress is a Pokemon which can spin away entry hazards, and in return, Ditto deters any Pokemon from using Forretress as setup fodder. Similarly, any grounded Poison-type is also useful for Toxic Spikes absorption. Examples of this include Tentacruel and Dragalge. For more offensive options, Scizor and Ditto can partner up to form a potent scouting and revenge killing core. Noivern is also capable of fulfilling this role due to its ability, Frisk, which allows it to scout opposing sets more effectively than Scizor.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ditto's other options are extremely limited because there are so few things that can be changed. However, one aspect of Ditto that one can alter is its Hidden Power type. Setting Ditto's IVs to 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe achieves a Hidden Power type of Fire, and is an option which gives Ditto the ability to outspeed and finish off weakened Magnezone. While having a Choice Scarf is very important, one could potentially opt to use a Focus Sash Ditto instead. This would make Ditto be able to survive a hit from a Pokemon it copies, but faces the risk of being broken by entry hazards. In a similar vein, a Red Card could be used to switch into resisted hits of a sweeper and phaze it out. However, this, of course, is unreliable due to the possibility that Ditto will have to switch out and waste the boosts that it steals.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Ditto has no real universal counters because what counters it will depend on what Pokemon it transforms into. However, Ditto does have some exploitable flaws:

    **Substitute / Illusion**: Due to Transform's mechanics, a Pokemon with an intact Illusion or behind a Substitute will not be copyable with Imposter. This means Zoroark along with any Pokemon equipped with a Substitute will be able to deny Ditto of the ability to transform.

    **Calm Mind / Quiver Dance**: Some Calm Mind and Quiver Dance sweepers are capable of beating Ditto in a one-on-one scenario, as they will be able to continue boosting or healing while Ditto will be locked into a move. For instance, a bulky Volcarona variant can continue boosting on Ditto, while Ditto will be locked into its Fire-type STAB.

    **Revenge Killers**: After Ditto has already transformed, many Pokemon are able to retaliate, but as already mentioned, which ones will almost always depend on what it has transformed into. Most of the time, Wobbuffet makes for an excellent revenge killer because Ditto will virtually always be using a Choice Scarf. However, Wobbuffet cannot trap Ditto if the latter has transformed into a Ghost-type or a different Pokemon with Shadow Tag.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  2. Namso

    Namso
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    Make sure to list the pros and cons together when you write it up (you have them mixed).

    I wouldn't mention Life Orb, that's really bad on Ditto. Focus Sash is fine.

    This thing is stupid and I don't know what else to say so,

    QC 1/3
  3. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    Actually, Ditto is completely immune to sticky web as it copies the opponent's stat changes, so it isnt susceptible to every hazard. You can actually mention that sticky web on the opponent's side of hte field might mess with your own ditto because they can bring in something not grounded after you score a revenge kill on something that is grounded, and outpace you.
  4. Alter

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    Thanks porky. I shall implement the points you have mentioned when I get a chance.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Mention Red Card in Other Options, since that allows you to still copy the opposing sweeper, and that when played smartly, Ditto can switch into a resisted hit (like, say, a Fire Punch from a Dragonite that's boosted too many times, or Bug Buzz from Volcarona), force the opposing sweeper out, and go ahead and sweep on its own. This, of course, is unreliable due to the possibility that Ditto will have to switch out and waste those boosts, which is why it's in Other Options!

    Once you implement that, it's
    [​IMG]
    KABOOM APPROVED 2/3
  6. Alter

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    Interesting suggestion, AG. I'll implement this into the Other Options and begin writing.

    Edit: Completed writing.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  7. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    QC APPROVED 3/3
  8. melvni

    melvni
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    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    Overview
    ########
    By virtue of its Dream World ability, Ditto makes for one of the greatest revenge killers in the game with a unique ability in being able to copy stat boosts. This ability, Imposter, allows Ditto to instantly transform into the Pokemon it switches into, copying said Pokemon's moves, ability (add comma) and typing, (remove comma) in addition to every stat bar HP. Not This not only does this allow allows Ditto be an excellent revenge killer with a Choice Scarf, (remove comma) but also lets it scout movesets for unpredictable Pokemon, such as Deoxys-S and Genesect. As a result of Substitute's nerf, Ditto will find itself being able to steal boosts more often than ever before (could you clarify why nerfing Sub caused this? do you mean because less things run Substitute? I'd also suggest maybe removing this sentence or reworking where you include this information in the Overview; right now it seems a little clunky with the rest of the paragraph). Ditto can also perform well on teams which that have a weakness to set up setup sweepers because it naturally deters the opponent from setting up. Outside However outside of these roles, Ditto can do very little, and, (remove comma) as a result, it is a very one-dimensional Pokemon. Additionally, Ditto's weakness of a pitifully low HP stat is only worsened is pitifully low, something only made worse by its susceptibility to every damaging entry hazard. Ditto also struggles to perform effectively against more defensively-inclined defensively inclined teams, making it hard to fit into a team slot.

    Imposter
    ########
    name: Imposter
    move 1: Transform
    move 2:
    move 3:
    move 4:

    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    There's little to address when talking about Ditto's moves; Transform is its only legal one. It is used on this set rather than no move so that Ditto does not use Struggle immediately, but instead wastes all of its PP first because it is impossible for a Pokemon to have no moves. Its only real use is preventing Ditto from Struggling immediately if Imposter fails.

    Set Details
    ========
    A Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto, as it ensures that it Ditto can outspeed the setup sweepers which that it transforms into. Almost no No other item can possibly replace the utility which is provided by a Choice Scarf. The HP stat should be invested into when using a Ditto as much as possible, as HP is the only stat which that transfers over upon Imposter activation. 248 EVs in HP makes Ditto hit a Stealth Rock number, which means Ditto will be hurt slightly less by some forms of residual damage. Maximum investment in Defense decreases damage that Ditto takes from a Struggle war (add 'with another Ditto' if this is what you're referring to) and the remaining EVs are placed into Special Defense (you don't need to say this because they're on the set). A Relaxed nature is used to obtain the lowest Speed for the aforementioned possible, albeit rare (add comma) Struggle war possibility mentioned earlier. Ditto also uses minimum Speed IVs for this reason, which also gives Ditto and to give itself a Hidden Power type of Ice to revenge kill threats such as Thundurus and Landorus.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    As a revenge killer, Ditto is best brought out in response to a Pokemon fainting or from a teammate's successful U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass. It is best only to attempt to revenge kill with Ditto, because if it switches in as a Pokemon sets up, it won't get the stat boosts and is likely to lose the match-up. If one is using Ditto to revenge kill a Pokemon which that has not revealed any status moves, it is worth considering if the opponent also has a Choice Scarf. If both Pokemon possess a Choice Scarf, the turn order is based on a coin flip and one may might wind up losing their one's Ditto. Alternatively, you can also use Ditto to scout and check the movesets of opponents so that you know what to expect later in the game. This is particularly useful for Pokemon such as Genesect, which can run a large variety of movesets. Ditto is a Pokemon which that generally struggles against stall; in spite of this, if versing a stall team, one can make use of Ditto to steal or eliminate the opponent's entry hazards.

    Team Options
    ========
    Even though Ditto is generally a Pokemon that glues together a team rather than being built around, there are a few distinct Pokemon that it works well with. Primarily, due to Ditto's susceptibility to entry hazards, a Pokemon with Defog or Rapid Spin can be an excellent teammate. Forretress is a Pokemon which can spin away entry hazards, and, (remove comma) in return, Ditto deters any Pokemon from using Forretress as set up setup fodder. Similarly, any grounded Poison-type is also useful for Toxic Spikes absorption. Examples of this include Tentacruel and Dragalge. For more offensive options, Genesect and Ditto can partner up to form a potent scouting and revenge killing core. Noivern is also capable of fulfilling this role due to its ability, Frisk, which allows it to scout opposing sets more effectively than Genesect.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ditto's other options are extremely limited because there are so few things to be changed on the set that can be changed. However, one aspect of Ditto which that one can alter is its Hidden Power type. Setting Ditto's IVs to 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe achieve achieves a Hidden Power Type of Fire (add comma) and is an option which gives Ditto the ability to outspeed and finish off weakened Magnezone. While having a Choice Scarf is very important, one could potentially opt to use a Focus Sash Ditto instead. This would Focus Sash could make Ditto be able to survive a hit from a Pokemon it copies, but faces the risk of being broken by entry hazards. In a similar vein, a Red Card could be used to switch into resisted hits of using moves it resists a sweeper and phaze them it out. This However, this, of course, is unreliable due to the possibility that Ditto will have to switch out and waste the boosts that it steals.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Ditto has no real universal counters because what counters it will depend on what Pokemon it transforms into. However, Ditto does have some exploitable flaws. (change to colon)

    **Substitute / Illusion**: Due to Transform's mechanics, a Pokemon with an intact Illusion or behind a Substitute will not be copyable with Imposter. This means Zoroark along with any Pokemon equipped with a Substitute will be able to deny Ditto of the ability to transform.

    **Calm Mind / Quiver Dance**: Some Calm Mind or and Quiver Dance sweepers are capable of beating Ditto in a one-on-one scenario, as they will be able to continue boosting or healing while Ditto will be locked into a move. For instance, a bulky Volcarona variant can continue boosting on a Ditto with the ability to change its moves, while Ditto will be locked into its Fire-type STAB.

    **Revenge Killers**: After Ditto has already transformed, many Pokemon are able to retaliating retaliate, but, (remove comma) as already mentioned, this which ones will almost always depend on what it has transformed into. As a general Pokemon Most of the time, Wobbuffet makes for an excellent revenge killer because Ditto will virtually always be using a Choice Scarf. However, Wobbuffet cannot trap Ditto if the latter has transformed into a Ghost-type or a different Pokemon with Shadow Tag.


    GP: 1/2
  9. Alter

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    Thanks melvni. I've implemented your GP check and this is now ready for a second one.
  10. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are here
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    Labyrinthine

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    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########
    By virtue of its Dream World ability, Ditto makes for one of the greatest revenge killers in the game. This ability, Imposter, allows Ditto to instantly transform into the Pokemon it switches into, copying said Pokemon's moves, ability, and typing in addition to every stat bar except HP. This not only allows Ditto be an excellent revenge killer with a Choice Scarf but also lets it scout movesets for unpredictable Pokemon, such as Deoxys-S and Genesect. Ditto can also perform well on teams that have a weakness to setup sweepers because it naturally deters the opponent from setting up. Outside of these roles, Ditto can do very little, and as a result, (RC) it is a very one-dimensional Pokemon. Additionally, Ditto's HP stat is pitifully low, something only made worse by its susceptibility to every damaging entry hazard. Ditto also struggles to perform effectively against more defensively-inclined defensively inclined teams, making it hard to fit into a team slot.

    Imposter
    ########
    name: Imposter
    move 1: Transform
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    There's little to address when talking about Ditto's moves; Transform is its only legal one. It is used on this set because it is impossible for a Pokemon to have no moves. Its only real use is preventing Ditto from using Struggle immediately if Imposter fails.

    Set Details
    ========
    A Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto, as it ensures that Ditto can outspeed the setup sweepers which it transforms into. No other item can possibly replace the utility provided by a Choice Scarf. The HP stat should be invested into when using a Ditto as much as possible, as HP is the only stat that transfers over upon Imposter activation. 248 EVs in HP makes Ditto hit a Stealth Rock number, which means Ditto will be hurt slightly less by some forms of residual damage. Maximum investment in Defense decreases damage that Ditto takes from a Struggle war with another Ditto. A Relaxed nature is used to obtain the lowest Speed for the possible, albeit rare, Struggle war mentioned previously. Ditto also uses minimum Speed IVs for this reason and to give itself a Hidden Power type of Ice to revenge kill threats such as Thundurus and Landorus.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    As a revenge killer, Ditto is best brought out in response to a Pokemon fainting or from a teammate's successful U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass. It is best only to attempt to revenge kill with Ditto, because if it switches in as a Pokemon sets up, it won't get the stat boosts and is likely to lose the matchup. If one is using Ditto to revenge kill a Pokemon that has not revealed any status moves, it is worth considering if the opponent also has a Choice Scarf. If both Pokemon possess a Choice Scarf, the turn order is based on a coin flip and one might wind up losing their Ditto. Alternatively, you can also use Ditto to scout and check the movesets of opponents so that you know what to expect later in the game. This is particularly useful for Pokemon such as Genesect, which can run a large variety of movesets. Ditto is a Pokemon that generally struggles against stall; in spite of this, if versing a stall team, one can make use of Ditto to steal or eliminate the opponent's entry hazards.

    Team Options
    ========
    Even though Ditto is generally a Pokemon that glues together a team rather than being built around, there are a few distinct Pokemon that it works well with. Primarily, due to Ditto's susceptibility to entry hazards, a Pokemon with Defog or Rapid Spin can be an excellent teammate. Forretress is a Pokemon which can spin away entry hazards, and in return, Ditto deters any Pokemon from using Forretress as setup fodder. Similarly, any grounded Poison-type is also useful for Toxic Spikes absorption. Examples of this include Tentacruel and Dragalge. For more offensive options, Genesect and Ditto can partner up to form a potent scouting and revenge killing core. Noivern is also capable of fulfilling this role due to its ability, Frisk, which allows it to scout opposing sets more effectively than Genesect.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ditto's other options are extremely limited because there are so few things that can be changed. However, one aspect of Ditto that one can alter is its Hidden Power type. Setting Ditto's IVs to 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe achieves a Hidden Power type of Fire, and is an option which gives Ditto the ability to outspeed and finish off weakened Magnezone. While having a Choice Scarf is very important, one could potentially opt to use a Focus Sash Ditto instead. This would make Ditto be able to survive a hit from a Pokemon it copies, but faces the risk of being broken by entry hazards. In a similar vein, a Red Card could be used to switch into resisted hits of a sweeper and phaze it out. However, this, of course, is unreliable due to the possibility that Ditto will have to switch out and waste the boosts that it steals.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Ditto has no real universal counters because what counters it will depend on what Pokemon it transforms into. However, Ditto does have some exploitable flaws:

    **Substitute / Illusion**: Due to Transform's mechanics, a Pokemon with an intact Illusion or behind a Substitute will not be copyable with Imposter. This means Zoroark along with any Pokemon equipped with a Substitute will be able to deny Ditto of the ability to transform.

    **Calm Mind / Quiver Dance**: Some Calm Mind and Quiver Dance sweepers are capable of beating Ditto in a one-on-one scenario, as they will be able to continue boosting or healing while Ditto will be locked into a move. For instance, a bulky Volcarona variant can continue boosting on Ditto, while Ditto will be locked into its Fire-type STAB.

    **Revenge Killers**: After Ditto has already transformed, many Pokemon are able to retaliate, but as already mentioned, which ones will almost always depend on what it has transformed into. Most of the time, Wobbuffet makes for an excellent revenge killer because Ditto will virtually always be using a Choice Scarf. However, Wobbuffet cannot trap Ditto if the latter has transformed into a Ghost-type or a different Pokemon with Shadow Tag.


    [​IMG]
    2/2
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  11. Alter

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    GatoDelFuego: I've implemented your GP check. You can now add this to the completed analyses index. Cheers. :toast:
    To everyone else:
  12. MagikaripIsOP

    MagikaripIsOP

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    For struggle wars shouldn't you have 8 atk?
  13. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    If it hasn't transformed Ditto is doing more damage back to itself than it ever will do with struggle.
    MagikaripIsOP likes this.
  14. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Wouldn't it be better to call it "Hidden ability", as Dream World doesn't exist anymore and that's the official term used for this kind of ability?

    Besides, Ditto didn't even get Imposter from Dream World (it could only be found in BW2 Hidden Grottos), so there's that.
  15. thedeafelectrician

    thedeafelectrician

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    Name: The Best Set Ever
  16. Alter

    Alter boats against the current
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    Mario With Lasers likes this.

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