Doduo (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Status: Done; awaiting grammar checks, critiques, etc.

    Apologies for not getting this up sooner, my internet was kaput for the last week owing to my clumsiness... still, don't cry over spilt milk.


    Initial Changes:
    • Wrote Mixed LO, Choice and Flail set descriptions
    • Wrote Team Options
    • Wrote Other Options, EVs, Opinion, and Counters sections
    Stamps:

    [​IMG] (Heysup) [​IMG] (Kannon)
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    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/doduo
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>Doduo can perform very well at what it does, being the proud owner of the standard combination of moves granted by both of its types, a useful priority move, and the ability to simply stomp its way through weakened teams with whatever it happens to be running. Sadly for Doduo, its usage is hampered slightly by the presence of Taillow, who can run almost identical movesets but has greater Speed (which in Little Cup can make or break a sweeper), as well as Guts and Facade to compensate for Doduo's slightly higher Attack. Despite the competition, Doduo is undeniably an excellent Pokemon in Little Cup, and is not overshadowed by any means; Doduo's higher Attack and slightly better overall defenses, the ability to use Liechi Berry, Flail, and Roost, as well as freedom from self-inflicted status damage, gives it advantages over Taillow in many situations. Underestimate it at your own peril.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Life Orb
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Naughty / Naive
    evs: 240 Atk / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Doduo boasts decent Speed and Attack, useful STAB moves, and decent coverage, allowing it to function as a fast, physical sweeper. This variant of Doduo aims to sweep, clearing up weakened teams late-game with its powerful STAB moves, while relying on priority to prevent revenge kills by faster foes. Return is the standard Normal-type STAB move, and is a good one at that: with reasonable power, perfect accuracy, and no recoil effects, you will find Doduo using it more than any of its other moves, not only because it has a great deal of neutral coverage, but also because it is Doduo's most reliable attack. Double-Edge is a more powerful but also more risky alternative to Return; it can make the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, but lacks Return's long-term reliability. However, it is illegal alongside Brave Bird, and as Brave Bird does not have as reliable an alternative as Double-Edge has, it is usually the more worthwhile investment. For a secondary STAB option, Brave Bird is Doduo's most powerful choice, and as mentioned previously there are few worthwhile alternatives. Pluck is one, allowing you to steal Oran Berries from walls such as Bronzor and Gligar that come in to make your life difficult. While not as powerful as Brave Bird, it can make your life much easier should you happen to catch them on the switch, not only preventing them from healing, but also healing Doduo in the process.</p>

    <p>Quick Attack allows Doduo to escape the priority death trap from Pokemon such as Croagunk and Machop that may try to bait Doduo into using Brave Bird, and also allows for an assured end to weakened foes that may be carrying priority. STAB Quick Attack from Doduo can really hurt, and can allow Doduo to act as a fairly good revenge killer. Doduo shares the pain of many Normal / Flying Pokemon in that the Steel- and Rock-types that inhabit Little Cup really make its life a trial, since they resist both of its STAB moves while being naturally very defensive, and Doduo has barely anything to hit back at them with. However, given the low Special Defense of most of the Rock-types in Little Cup, Hidden Power Fighting, even off Doduo's pathetic Special Attack stat, does a lot of damage to many of them, most importantly Aron, who 4x resists both of Doduo's STAB moves. Aron is OHKOed and other Pokemon, such as Onix and offensive Rhyhorn, are 2HKOed. On the other hand, Hidden Power Grass OHKOes Onix and Rhydon, as well as almost always OHKOing Omanyte and Kabuto, though it does not do as much to Aron. Hidden Power Ice is also an option if you are worried about Gligar, OHKOing offensive variants and almost always doing the same to defensive ones.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are incredibly straightforward, with simple sweeper EVs for maximum effectiveness at its job, and a defense-lowering nature to avoid spoiling the power of Hidden Power Fighting. Naughty grants greater attacking power, but Naive grants greater Speed, which can make the difference between death and survival, though the choice is really up to personal preference. Ordinarily, 236 EVs would be sufficient to maximize both Attack and Speed on Doduo; however, due to the lowered IVs from using Hidden Power, 240 EVs are given in each stat to ensure that, whatever Hidden Power you decide to use, Doduo's Attack and Speed are always maximized.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock, despite being resisted by most of Doduo's counters, is as useful as ever to break the common Focus Sashes seen around Little Cup. Doduo is frail even without a defense-lowering nature, and taking into account Stealth Rock damage, Life Orb damage, and Brave Bird recoil, Doduo will not be surviving for long against a team that can potentially hit back. Rapid Spin support can help salvage some bulk, allowing Doduo to come in unscathed, and thus giving it more of a lifeline to hang on should it be struck by a weaker attack or require extra turns of Life Orb recoil in which to do damage. This cannot disguise the fact that Doduo is very prone to revenge killing, particularly from Pokemon such as Scarf Gastly or Scarf Cranidos, both of whom do not mind Quick Attack. You should make sure that you can deal with these threats to Doduo, as being unable to do so is often fatal to both Doduo and your team. As for what Doduo cannot take down through sheer force, Pokemon that resist its STAB moves are the main culprits, in particular those Rock- and Steel-types that do not mind Hidden Power Fighting. Bronzor is the best check around, and Doduo does not like being on the receiving end of a Hidden Power Ice or Psychic. To deal with it, you should take advantage of its sole weakness, Fire-type moves; Houndour beats Bronzor that lack Earthquake. Krabby can take any of its attacks and reply in kind with STAB Crabhammer, as well as easily taking on the Rock-types that also plague Doduo. In the case of Magnemite, Diglett can trap and easily OHKO assuming it does not use Magnet Rise on the switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Roost may seem like a waste of a moveslot on Doduo given its lack of bulk, running Roost comes with a lot of bonuses to Doduo that more than make up for the lost coverage. It is an extremely useful move in the right circumstances, as Doduo often accumulates a very large amount of residual damage thanks to Stealth Rock, Life Orb, and recoil from Brave Bird or Double-Edge. Furthermore, Roost removes Doduo's unfortunate weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type moves, and provides it with a non-damaging move to avoid Sucker Punch. For the other three moves, Brave Bird and Double-Edge are very powerful and their recoil effect is negated by Roost, as previously mentioned, although since you can only use one of them as they are illegal together, Pluck and Return are still perfectly viable options.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is the standard max Attack and Speed. The choice of an Adamant or Jolly nature is entirely up to whether you feel the need for more Speed or more Attack. Lastly, if you decide to run a 29 HP IV, Doduo reaches 19 HP, which means that Life Orb will only deduct 1 HP per attack. However, this loss in HP can be critical against Bronzor that invest in Special Attack as well as for taking other neutral hits.</p>

    <p>The most obvious benefit of Roost is negating the residual damage built up on Doduo. While healing with Roost wastes a turn, it allows Doduo to remain a force for much longer in the battle. While it may seem optimistic to the point of foolishness to try to heal a weakened Doduo at any point, it should be noted that Doduo's presence will often force the opponent to switch, usually to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, whom Doduo can do very little against, and thus it is often a better policy to Roost on the switch. Aside from this, Roost can allow Doduo to beat its usual counters, most notably Bronzor, who has a good chance to fail to 2HKO with Gyro Ball, Psychic, or Hidden Power Ice, allowing Doduo to outstall it with Roost and slowly wear it down over time with repeated attacks. Another great advantage gained by using Roost is the ability to evade Sucker Punch, one of the most common forms of priority. While Doduo has priority of its own, it may not always be enough to avoid a revenge kill, especially with Pokemon such as Diglett. Lastly, although by using Roost you remove Doduo's Rock, Ice, and Electric weaknesses, enabling Doduo to occasionally heal on unSTABed attacks of these types from slower Pokemon, this is a rare occurrence and the users of these moves will often have enough power to cause serious injury to the frail Doduo even without a weakness to prey on.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support helps greatly to stop Focus Sash teams from interfering. The biggest difference between this Doduo and most others is the presence of Roost and the absence of a last coverage move. This fact makes Doduo a lot more vulnerable to Pokemon that resist its STAB moves, particularly Rock-type Pokemon such as Geodude and Onix. While these are not commonly seen, it may be wise to accompany Doduo with something that has little trouble against them, such as Staryu or Machop, both of whom can OHKO most Rock-types with their STAB moves.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Doduo is one of those fast but frail sweepers that cannot really afford to take a strong hit. Thus, Stealth Rock is a useful method of supporting Doduo; though it does not severely damage any of Doduo’s usual counters to any great degree, it does help by breaking the Focus Sash on Pokemon such as Abra and Diglett, allowing Doduo to get the kill and live to fight on. Rapid Spin support can be helpful if you are expecting to switch in and out a lot, as Doduo can find itself very short on health very quickly with Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    <p>Bronzor is probably Doduo’s biggest and most common problem, and without a lot of luck, no variant of Doduo can beat it. Although it can be weathered down through repeated assaults, it is best if you include a sound strategy in your team for beating it. Houndour can easily OHKO with its STAB Fire-type moves, and Krabby can pound it with STAB Crabhammer while taking advantage of its excellent natural Defense. If you are not running Hidden Power Fighting, this extends to Aron, Shieldon, Magnemite, and other Steel-types. All of the above can be easily trapped and OHKOed by Diglett; Magnemite can also fare well against them. Diglett and Magnemite can both also switch in on Electric and Rock attacks aimed at Doduo with relative ease. Magnemite in particular makes a good partner for Doduo, as it resists all of Doduo’s weaknesses and can trap and kill Steel-types, while Doduo can switch in on a predicted Earthquake aimed at Magnemite. Aron and Shieldon can both also be taken care of by specially inclined Water-type Pokemon such as Staryu and Chinchou. Water-type Pokemon are also useful to deal with Rock-type Pokemon if you are paranoid about them or if you are not running Steel Wing. Scarf Houndour is also useful, aside from beating Bronzor, in removing Ghost-types that may try to switch in and revenge kill if Doduo is slower or not running a Flying-type attack.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, Doduo is quite frail, and relatively easy to revenge kill for most of Little Cup, especially with Life Orb, Brave Bird, and Stealth Rock damage taken into account. Priority revenge killers such as Croagunk and Houndour have an easy time on Doduo that lack Quick Attack. Pokemon such as Staryu, Abra, and Taillow all outspeed non-Scarf variants and OHKO with their respective STAB moves. For this reason you should always make sure not to leave any gaps in your team that can be taken advantage of by any one revenge killer, as Doduo cannot always rely on Quick Attack to remove its foes. The best way to deal with it is generally to fight fire with fire; for example, Diglett can survive a Sucker Punch or Vacuum Wave from Houndour and Croagunk, respectively, and OHKO both with STAB Earthquake. The majority of priority users with Aqua Jet can be revenge killed by Croagunk or Mantyke, and Ghost-type Pokemon such as Gastly or Duskull can beat Machop if they don't switch in on Payback or Bullet Punch.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Doduo can use Choice items fairly well, something Taillow cannot do, but more often than not getting locked into a Normal-type move is asking for disaster. As previously mentioned, Doduo has little in the way of alternative moves. Drill Peck is an option if you dislike Brave Bird’s recoil and Pluck’s low Base Power, but is quite average compared to them. Steel Wing allows Doduo to hit Rock-types, but its low power coupled with low damage output against common Rock-types means Doduo is usually better off using Hidden Power. Doduo also has Endeavor, which can be used alongside Quick Attack and Focus Sash for a gimmick combination. Lastly, Pursuit can be used to revenge kill Choice-locked Ghosts.</p>

    <p>All you really need to do for Doduo is max out its Attack and Speed, since both stats max out at 236 EVs, and none of its other stats gain a point with the leftover 36 EVs. If you are using Hidden Power Fighting, Doduo loses a point in Speed, so a Naive nature should be used to make up for it. Likewise, if you are using Hidden Power Grass, Doduo loses a point in Attack, so you may want to use a Naughty nature to retain its original Attack. A 29 HP IV allows Doduo to reach 19 HP, letting Doduo take minimum damage from Life Orb, though it does interfere with Hidden Power slightly. If you are using a Substitute + Flail set, 76 EVs in HP gives Doduo a HP stat of 21, allowing it to create four Substitutes with 1 HP remaining.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Far and away the best counters are Steel-types, which resist both of Doduo's STAB moves and usually have naturally high Defense. Bronzor comes to mind as a premier choice, especially considering that it is not bothered by Hidden Power Fighting. Beldum should also be noted as a check, if only for sake of completeness. Magnemite, too, can survive a Hidden Power and OHKO with STAB Thunderbolt. Aron and Shieldon take practically nothing from Doduo's STAB attacks and have their own STAB Rock-type attacks to kill Doduo with, but must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting, as it will OHKO both the majority of the time. Rock-types are next on the list, with naturally great Defense and super effective STAB, though they usually have less than impressive Special Defense stats and must watch out for Hidden Power. Faster Ghosts can come in on Return or Quick Attack and hit Doduo with Thunderbolt, though they need to watch out for Brave Bird or Pluck on the switch. Lastly, Doduo is quite frail and easily revenge killed, and even with Quick Attack taken for granted there are a number of Pokemon faster than it that easily revenge kill it, such as Elekid, Staryu, and Abra. Most Choice Scarf users also outrun it, and priority users such as Houndour and Machop can all come in on a weakened Doduo and revenge kill after it has made a kill, though they must watch out for Quick Attack.</p>

    -------------------------------


    Post-critique changes:
    • Grammar check 1, thanks to CardsOfTheHeart
    • Wrote 3 Attacks + Roost set descriptions
    • Merged SubLiechi and Flail sets
    • Updated with new format changes
    • Removed Misdreavus references
    • Removed SubLiechi and Choice
    • Grammar check 2, thanks to Frizy
    • Grammar check 3, thanks to Aeron Ee1
    • GP Grammar-Prose Check 1, thanks to Fizz
    • GP Grammar-Prose Check 2, thanks to Zystral
    • GP Grammar-Prose Check 3, thanks to Snorlaxe
  2. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    OK although HP Fight takes down Shieldon, I think people would do well to know that SHieldon sees near 0% use, the only reason it popped up was to deal with Murkrow to some extent.
    Id rather you use HP Grass so as to deal with Omanyte and Rhyhorn, or HP Ice to kill the evercommon Gligar

    Also IMO a Sub Liechi Agility set should be included somehow, thats about the only thing it does better than Tailow

    Something like Sub / Agility / Drill Peck / Return. Ofcourse, while using this mention in team options that opposing Rocks and Steels should be removed. Magnemite, Diglett or Gligar as most Rocks cant do anything to it, while it comfortably sets up on them (apart from Rhyhorn Ice Fang, if it gets it)

    Choice Band is as always, horrible in LC, especially where Misdreavus can come in on CB Return, and bronzor can come in on CB Flying move. Flail is hard to pull off thanks to numerous scarf users as well as priority moves.

    Only worthy sets IMO are mixed Life Orb, and Sub Agility
  3. CardsOfTheHeart

    CardsOfTheHeart

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    *copy-pastes into Word and presses F7
    Changed:
    1. American spelling of words (Defense > Defence)
    2. 1 HP > 1HP
    3. Run-on sentence in Team Options changed to semicolon (personal preference)
    4. Mentions of Mismagius (oops!) changed to Misdreavus
    5. Magnemite > Magneton

    The rest looks fine.
  4. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    none of those sets are in this analysis :p

    Can think of some that don't fit that pattern, Togekiss, Noctowl and Charot (Farfy can hardly be called fast) for example. That's almost half the fully evolved fly/normals.

    How about giving some of Doduo's advantages? Slightly better defences all round, no damage from burn/toxic, no need for a status orb letting you use another item. Double Edge could get a slash over Return, that or a bit in OO about it. Actually, Taillow does not have more power than Doduo, Guts Taillow hits 22/24 attack and LO Dodou gets 23/24, though Taillow does have Facade with 38 more BP than Return or 20 more than Double Edge. Taillow's main advantage is that it hits the all important 19 speed, Doduo only gets 18 failing to tie a large number of key threats.

    LO STAB QA from 18 Atk powerful for a priority move, it can be used to take down slightly weakened scarfers and give you a fighting chance against the other Pokemon who outspeed you.

    accumulates is not the right word, and saying "in Little Cup" is a bit odd really.. maybe say "with a LO boost" or something like that?

    This implies that those are always weakened, and I'd like to see some figures for how hard they are actually hit in the analysis.

    Why defence lowering not SpD lowering? Does the point of SpA really make much difference against key opponents?

    double use of potentially and both are not really needed.

    This kind of long term thinking and careful team scouting may be common in OU, but will almost never be workable in LC. If you can bring Dodou in and get the momentum+maybe a KO, its easily worth the risk of your opponent getting a chance to revenge you.

    For Choice:
    Probably best to run some calcs, I I would be very surprised if Steel Wing was at all effective on the non CB set compared to HP Fight against a vast majority of the rock or steel types around. Double Hit is OO at best really, given that many of the most common subbers are Ghost types. HP Grass or Water may be viable to hit the different groups of Rock/Ground, Rock/Steel and Rock/Water for as many SE hits as possible, especially if Fight does not hit the /Grounds hard enough without the LO boost.

    sounds awkward to me.

    Actually, it gets 27/28 Atk compared to Taillow's 22/24, but again the extra base power of Facade makes comparisons less simple.

    There is a massive difference between 19 speed and 25/27. Scarf is not about mimicking Taillow, but about doing something that Taillow is really bad at because it needs the guts boost to do much.

    maybe say why not to use Brave Bird?
    Say if they are 1KOd.

    How much is a lot? and why do you say "often"?

    rarity > considerable lack
    its not game over, but you are almost useless.

    Stunky would be another good example.

    Double-Edge should go in OO, especially if you don't add it to the first set. Double Edge and, depending on calcs, Steel Wing should go here as well. Focus Sash is worth mentioning, as is a non-flail Agility set. Roost could be mentioned, Doduo does not have good defences but they are somewhat passable. Substitute is a reasonably good option, but you have to lose another move for it and passive damage can add up fast.

    "and relatively easily to revenge-kill, " sounds better.

    Gastly only ties speed with it, and Mismagius is not allowed in LC :p You want Misdreavus.

    Not realistic at all, you can't play like this in LC without going to massive lengths, and Doduo far from the best Pokemon to centre a team around.

    EVs section needs a lot more, you need to say about how many points it needs to max out and how to make up for the IV loss that hidden power causes.

    Opinion is a bit short, and lacks much real info other than a quick comparison to Taillow.

    Magnemite
    Calc it and if it 1KOs (it should easily) say that they are KOd. It really helps the reader a lot more.

    Note Scarfers as revenge killers, and priority users to take out the flail set.
  5. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    You seem to have missed one of Doduo's best sets (if not its best).

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move2: Return / Double-Edge
    move3: Quick Attack
    move4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    Roost on Doduo? Am I serious? Actually yes, I am. This set has so many advantages over the Choice set and the mixed set alike, lets start with the most important one though: Beating Bronzor. This doduo can actually beat (yes, beat) Bronzor with Roost and Return. Roost outstall's Bronzor's Gyro Ball, Psychic, and HP Ice, while it also gets a chance to attack when Bronzor uses any sort of support move (such as Reflect, Hypnosis, Light Screen, etc). Bronzor can't even really incapitate Doduo effectively, due to Early Bird.

    Roost is also quite useful to avoid Sucker Punch, a very very popular move in this metagame. Against Diglett who only has Sucker Punch, Earthquake, SR and Protect, this Doduo can easily heal its Health back up from the Stealth Rock damage while Diglett tries to finish Doduo off with Sucker Punch. With Doduo's BB/DE recoil, LO recoil, and SR weakness, it can run out of HP fast, so taking the opportunity to roost is a good plan.

    Doduo also forces switches into Pokemon it can barely dent (such as Bronzor), making Roost a much better option anyway.
  6. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    I've added mentions to the first set and EV sections about alternative Hidden Powers, thanks very much.

    I've used a set rather like that one, and I would tend to agree with you, though I do not believe I used Liechi with it. I'll write up another set, if applicable.

    Also, thank you eric for the vast number of corrections.

    A couple of points I would like to address:

    In regards to 'defence-lowering' I meant that as a general term, as in a nature that lowers a defensive stat, since for Doduo its defences are not so important as its offences, and for ease of explaining the reason for not running Jolly or Adamant. Also, Shieldon and defensive Rhyhorn/Onix are only just OHKOed by HP Fighting and HP Grass respectively; HP Fighting does about 90-110% to Shieldon, OHKOing on average, but with a lower stat total I believe it will fail to OHKO on average. Therefore, defence-lowering nature.

    I meant more in terms of your own team than Doduo, for both of the areas you highlighted; it is advisable to carry a team well-equipped to deal with most revenge-killers should you be carrying Doduo. I did not mean that you should eliminate Doduo's threats through scouting, and I have removed the comments you picked out and replaced them.

    That does look like an interesting set, although I believe 9 SAtk Bronzor's Psychic does more than 50%, and not forgetting Psychic's chance to drop SDef, which will theoretically happen if you try to stall Bronzor out with Roost, after which Doduo is forced out. I also can't see Doduo Roosting off damage as well as Gligar in a metagame that revolves around priority, especially considering that Doduo does not resist Fighting-type attacks. Still, I'll have to try the set out, unless you want to write the descriptions yourself, as it does look like it could work.
  7. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    It's not meant to Roost-Stall, its meant to take the extra turns it might get from Sucker Punch, Opponent's switches (into something too bulky for Doduo to take down), and etc.

    It can Roost stall most Bronzor though, maybe not Psychic variants, but that could always be changed with some EVs.

    But yea, try it out.
  8. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Actually Flail maxes at 200BP, so it's 300BP with STAB.

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/flail

  9. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    In LC, you cannot reach the required 3% HP needed to max at 200, so at 1 HP in LC, Flail maxes at 150. It's a side effect of low level battling.
  10. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Nearly forgot about this, only remembered yesterday. New set:

    3 Attacks + Roost (open)

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Double-Edge / Return
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While it may seem like a wasted moveslot to run Roost on Doduo, given that it is not exactly the most bulky of Pokemon, in fact running Roost comes with a lot of bonuses to Doduo that more than make up for the lost coverage move.</p>

    <p>The first and most obvious benefit is negating the damage built up over time that is usually the death of standard Doduo, built up by Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage alongside Brave Bird or Double-Edge recoil. Healing with Roost, while wasting a turn can occasionally allow Doduo to remain a force for much longer in the battle than it would otherwise. While it may seem optimistic to the point of foolishness to try to heal a weakened Doduo at any point, it should be noted that Doduo's presence will often force the opponent to switch, usually to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, whom Doduo can do very little against, and thus it is often a better policy to Roost on the switch. Aside from this, Roost allows Doduo to beat its usual counters, most notably Bronzor, who has a good chance to fail to 2HKO with Gyro Ball, Psychic or Hidden Power Ice, allowing Doduo to outstall it with Roost, and slowly wear it down over time with repeated attacks. Another great advantage gained by using Roost is the ability to evade Sucker Punch, one of the most common forms of priority. Despite the fact that Doduo has priority of its own, it may not always be enough to avoid a revenge-kill, and especially with Pokemon such as Diglett, if you can predict the Sucker Punch and use Roost, you should have enough HP left to beat the Diglett with, not to mention the fact that Doduo is immune to Arena Trap. Lastly, although by using Roost you remove your Rock, Ice, and Electric weaknesses, enabling you to occasionally heal on unSTABed attacks from slower Pokemon of that nature, this is a rare occurrence and the users of these moves will often have enough power to cause serious injury to the frail Doduo even without a weakness to prey on.</p>

    <p>For the other three moves, Brave Bird and Double-Edge are very powerful and their recoil effect is negated by Roost, as previously mentioned, although Pluck and Return are still perfectly viable options respectively. The EV spread is the standard max Attack and Speed, and unfortunately the leftover EVs have to go to waste. The choicce of an Adamant or Jolly nature is entirely up to you and whether you feel the need for more Speed or more Attack. Lastly, if you decide to run a 29 HP IV, you can get 19 HP, which means that Life Orb will only deduct 1 HP per usage. However, this loss in HP can be critical against Bronzor that invest in Attack as well as for taking other neutral hits.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support helps greatly, again, to stop Focus Sash teams from interfering. The biggest difference between this Doduo and most others is the presence of Roost but the absence of a last coverage move. This fact makes it a lot more susceptible to those that resist its STAB moves, in particular Rock-types such as Geodude and Onix. While these are uncommonly seen, it may be wise to accompany Doduo with something that has little trouble against them, such as Staryu or Machop, both of whom can OHKO most Rock-types with their STAB moves.


    As recommended by HeYsUp. Any edits or grammar checks are appreciated.

    I've also merged the Flail set with SubLiechi (with emphasis on the latter).
  11. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Updated with new format changes.

    EDIT: Misdreavus is banned and removed from this analysis.
  12. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,227
    Bump. Still trying to reactivate these analyses.

    Again, sorry for the triple post.

    As for updates - I removed the SubLiechi set, since apparently there is a C&C-wide rule that SubBerry sets are no longer viable, which is even more true in LC. Secondly, I've removed the Choice set, seeing as I wouldn't want to be locked into either of Doduo's STAB moves, for fear of allowing Gastly or something to utterly wreck your team. Both are now in Optional Changes. I also reworded some sentences here and there.
  13. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    4,759
    Again, like with Kabuto, the removal or adjustment of sets needs to be approved by the LC QC team before this can receive any sanctioned GP checks.
  14. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Done and [​IMG]
  15. Kannon

    Kannon

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
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    needs mentioning that brave bird + double edge is illegal, but it's good enough otherwise.

    [​IMG]
  16. Frizy

    Frizy dont change my ct fuckers
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    398
    Blue=Additions Red=Removals (Green)=Comments (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Doduo can perform very well at what it does, being the proud owner of the standard combination of moves granted by both types, a useful priority move, and the ability to simply stamp its way through weakened teams with whatever it happens to be running. Sadly for Doduo, its usage is dampened slightly by the presence of Taillow, who can run almost identical movesets but with greater Speed which, in Little Cup, can make or break a sweeper, not forgetting Guts and Facade to compensate for Doduo's slightly higher Attack. Despite the competition, Doduo is undeniably an excellent Pokemon in Little Cup, and is not overshadowed by any means; Doduo's higher Attack and slightly better overall defenses, the ability to use Liechi Berry, Flail, and Roost, as well as freedom from self-inflicted status damage, gives it an advantage over Taillow in many situations., and is to be uUnderestimated it at your peril.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Life Orb
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Naughty / Naive
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Doduo boasts decent Speed and Attack, with useful STAB moves and decent coverage, and this along with the general pattern for most Normal / Flying Pokemon markings it out as a fast, physical sweeper. This variant of Doduo is a more sweeper-based option, aimed at clearing up weakened teams lategame with its powerful STAB moves, while relying on its priority to steer it away from revenge-kills by faster foes. Return is the standard Normal-type STAB move, and is a good, strong STAB for Doduo to possess,; with reasonable power, perfect accuracy and no recoil effects. You will find yourself using it more than any other of your moves, not only because it has a great deal of neutral coverage, but also because it is your most reliable attack. Double-Edge is a more powerful but also more risky alternative to Return, that can do that little bit more power that can make the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, but without Return's longer-term reliability. However, it is illegal with Brave Bird, and as Brave Bird does not have such a reliable alternative as Return, so Brave Bird is usually the more worthwhile investment. Your secondary STAB option has a bit more choice involved in the selection; Brave Bird is your most powerful option, though coming with the drawback of potentially costly recoil damage, and being of great use to hit some harder than Return where required, though you will mainly be using it against Ghost-types. Pluck is your other option, allowing you to steal Oran Berries from walls such as Bronzor and Gligar that come in to make your life difficult., and wWhile it is not as powerful an option as Brave Bird it can make your life much easier should you happen to catch them on the switch, not only preventing their healing, but also healing yourself as you do so.</p>

    <p>Quick Attack allows you to escape the priority death trap from Pokemon such as Croagunk and Machop that may try to bait you into using Brave Bird, and also allows for an assured end to weakened foes that may be carrying priority. STAB Quick Attack from Doduo can really hurt, and can allow Doduo to act as a fairly good revenge killer in its own right. Doduo shares the pain of many a Normal / Flying Pokemon in that the Steel- and Rock-types that inhabit Little Cup really make its life a trial, since they resist both of its STAB moves, quite apart from also being naturally very defensive, and Doduo has barely anything to hit back at them with. However, given the usually weaker Special Defense of most of the Rock-types in Little Cup that Hidden Power Fighting, that even off its pathetic Special Attack stat, Hidden Power Fighting does a lot of damage to many of them, most importantly Aron, who 4x resists both of its STAB moves. Thus, Aron is OHKOed and other Pokemon, such as Onix and offensive Rhyhorn, are always 2HKOed. Hidden Power Grass OHKOes Onix and Rhydon, as well as almost always OHKOing Omanyte and Kabuto, though it does not do as much to Aron. Hidden Power Ice is also an option if you are worried about Gligar, OHKOing offensive variants and almost always doing the same to defensive ones.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are incredibly straightforward, with simple sweeper EVs for maximum effectiveness at its job, and a defense-lowering nature to avoid spoiling the power of Hidden Power Fighting. Naughty grants greater attacking power, but Naïive (Accented i) allows you greater Speed, which can make the difference between death and survival, though the your choice is really up to personal preference. If you choose to use Hidden Power Fighting, you lose a point in Speed, so it is recommended that you run a Naive nature to restore your Speed, and if you run Hidden Power Grass or Ice you lose a point in Attack, so you should run a Naughty nature for the same reason.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is useful as ever to break the common Focus Sashes seen around Little Cup, despite most of Doduo’s counters resisting it. Doduo is frail even without a defense-lowering nature, and on top of this frailty, Stealth Rock damage, Life Orb damage and Brave Bird recoil, Doduo will not be surviving for long against a team that can potentially hit back. Rapid Spin support can help salvage some bulk, allowing you to come in unscathed, and thus giving you more of a lifeline to hang on, should you be struck by a weaker attack or require extra turns of Life Orb to do damage in. This cannot disguise the fact that Doduo is very weak to revenge-killing, particularly from Pokemon such as Scarf Gastly or Scarf Cranidos, both of whom do not mind Quick Attack. You should make sure that you can remove these threats to Doduo, as being unable to deal with a revenge-killers such as the aforementioned threats is often fatal for both Doduo's sweep and your team, especially when your team is weak to any one Pokemon. As for what Doduo cannot pass through sheer force, those that resist its STAB moves are the main culprits, namely Rock- and Steel-types that do not mind Hidden Power Fighting. Bronzor is the best check around, and Doduo does not like being on the receiving end of a Gyro Ball. To deal with it, you should take advantage of its sole weakness to Fire-type moves; Houndour beats those that lack Earthquake, and Krabby can take any of its attacks and reply in kind with STAB Crabhammer, as well as easily taking on the Rock-types that also plague Doduo. In the case of Magnemite, Diglett can trap and easily OHKO assuming it the former does not use Magnet Rise on the switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While it may seem like a wasted moveslot to run Roost on Doduo, given that it is not exactly the most bulky of Pokemon, in fact running Roost comes with a lot of bonuses to Doduo that more than make up for the lost coverage move. It is an extremely useful move in the right circumstances, as Doduo is often liable to accumulate a very large amount of residual damage thanks to Stealth Rock, Life Orb, and recoil from Brave Bird or Double-Edge, which Roost helps to offset. Furthermore, it also removes its unfortunate weaknesses to Rock, Electric, and Ice, and also provides Doduo with a non-combatitive move to avoid Sucker Punch. For the other three moves, Brave Bird and Double-Edge are very powerful and their recoil effect is negated by Roost, as previously mentioned, although since you can only use one of them as they are illegal together, Pluck and Return are still perfectly viable options respectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is the standard max Attack and Speed, and unfortunately the leftover EVs have to go to waste. The choice of an Adamant or Jolly nature is entirely up to you and whether you feel the need for more Speed or more Attack. Lastly, if you decide to run a 29 HP IV, you can get 19 HP, which means that Life Orb will only deduct 1 HP per usage. However, this loss in HP can be critical against Bronzor that invest in Attack as well as for taking other neutral hits.</p>

    <p>The first and most obvious benefit of Roost is negating the damage built up from Life Orb, Stealth Rock, and Brave Bird or Double-Edge recoil over time that is usually the death of standard Doduo, built up by Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage alongside Brave Bird or Double-Edge recoil. While Hhealing with Roost, while wastesing a turn, it can occasionally allows Doduo to remain a force for much longer in the battle than it would otherwise. While it may seem optimistic to the point of foolishness to try to heal a weakened Doduo at any point, it should be noted that Doduo's presence will often force the opponent to switch, usually to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, whom Doduo can do very little against, and thus it is often a better policy to Roost on the switch. Aside from this, Roost can allow Doduo to beat its usual counters, most notably Bronzor, who has a good chance to fail to 2HKO with Gyro Ball, Psychic or Hidden Power Ice, allowing Doduo to outstall it with Roost, and slowly wear it down over time with repeated attacks. Another great advantage gained by using Roost is the ability to evade Sucker Punch, one of the most common forms of priority. Despite the fact that Doduo has priority of its own, it may not always be enough to avoid a revenge-kill, and especially with Pokemon such as Diglett;, if you can predict the Sucker Punch and use Roost, you should have enough HP left to beat the Diglett with, not to mention the fact that Doduo is immune to Arena Trap. Lastly, although by using Roost you remove your Rock, Ice, and Electric weaknesses, enabling you to occasionally heal on unSTABed attacks from slower Pokemon of that nature, this is a rare occurrence and the users of these moves will often have enough power to cause serious injury to the frail Doduo even without a weakness to prey on.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support helps greatly, again, to stop Focus Sash teams from interfering. The biggest difference between this Doduo and most others is the presence of Roost but the absence of a last coverage move. This fact makes it a lot more susceptible to those that resist its STAB moves, in particular Rock-types such as Geodude and Onix. While these are uncommonly seen, it may be wise to accompany Doduo with something that has little trouble against them, such as Staryu or Machop, both of whom can OHKO most Rock-types with their STAB moves.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Doduo is one of those fast but frail sweepers that cannot really afford to take a strong hit if they can help it. As such, Stealth Rock is a useful method of supporting Doduo; though it does not severely damage any of Doduo’s usual counters to any great degree, it does help by breaking the Focus Sash on Pokemon such as Abra and Diglett, hopefully allowing Doduo to get the a kill and live to fight on. Rapid Spin support can be helpful for the Choice sets especially (What Choice set??), as Doduo can find itself very short on health very quickly with Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    <p>Bronzor is probably Doduo’s biggest and most common problem, and without a lot of luck no variant of Doduo can beat it. Although it can be weathered down through repeated assaults, it is best that you include a sound strategy in your team for beating it. Houndour can easily OHKO with its STAB Fire-type moves, and Krabby can pound it with STAB Crabhammer, while taking advantage of its excellent natural Defense. If you are not running Hidden Power Fighting, this extends to Aron, Shieldon, Magnemite, and other Steel-types. All of the above can be easily trapped and OHKOed by Diglett; Magnemite can also fare well against them. Diglett and Magnemite can both also switch in on Electric and Rock attacks aimed at Doduo with relative ease; Magnemite in particular makes a good partner for Doduo in any case, as it resists all of Doduo’s weaknesses, can trap and kill Steel-types, and Doduo can switch in on Earthquakes that Magnemite baits. Aron and Shieldon can both also be taken care of by specially inclined Water-types such as Staryu and Chinchou. Water-types are also useful to deal with Rock-types if you are paranoid about them or if you are not running Steel Wing. Scarf Houndour is also useful, aside from beating Bronzor, to remove Ghost-types that may try to switch in and revenge-kill, if you are slower or for whatever reason not running a Flying-type attack.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, Doduo is quite frail, and relatively easy to revenge kill for most of Little Cup, with Life Orb, Brave Bird and Stealth Rock damage taken into account as well. Priority revenge killers such as Croagunk and Houndour have an easy time on variants without Quick Attack, and Pokemon such as Staryu, Abra and Taillow all outspeed non-Scarf variants and OHKO with their respective STAB moves. For this reason you should always make sure not to leave any gaps in your team that can be taken advantage of by any one revenge killer, as Doduo cannot always rely on Quick Attack to remove its foes. The best way to deal with it is generally to fight fire with fire, for example Diglett can live through a Vacuum Wave or Sucker Punch from Houndour and Croagunk respectively and OHKO both with STAB Earthquake, and still has its own Sucker Punch for other priority-wielders. The majority of those with Aqua Jet can be revenge-killed by Croagunk or Mantyke, and Ghost-types such as Gastly or Duskull can beat Machop and Makuhita, with luck.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Doduo can use Choice items fairly well, something Taillow cannot do, but more often than not getting locked into a Normal-type move is asking for disaster. As previously mentioned, Doduo has little in the way of alternative moves. Drill Peck is an option if you dislike Brave Bird’s recoil and Pluck’s comparatively low power, but is quite average compared to them. Steel Wing allows you to hit Rock-types but its low power coupled with usually low damage output against common Rock-types means you are usually better off using Hidden Power. Doduo also has Endeavor, which can be used alongside Quick Attack and Focus Sash for a gimmick combination;, using Endeavor as your opponent breaks your Focus Sash, then using Quick Attack for the KO, and hopefully weakening another Pokemon as well. Lastly, Pursuit can be used to revenge-kill Choice-locked Ghosts.</p>

    <p>All you really need to do for Doduo is max out its Attack and Speed, since both stats max out at 236 EVs, and none of its other stats gain a point with the leftover 36 EVs. If you are using Hidden Power Fighting, Doduo loses a point in Speed, and so a Naive nature should be used to make up for it. Likewise, if you are using Hidden Power Grass, you lose a point in Attack, so you may want to use a Naughty nature to retain your original Attack. A 29 HP IV allows you to reach 19 HP, allowing you to take minimum damage from Life Orb, though it does interfere with Hidden Power slightly. If you are using a Substitute + Flail set, 76 EVs in HP gives you a HP stat of 21, allowing you to create four Substitutes, leaving you with 1 HP.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Far and away the best counters are Steel-types, who resist both of its STAB moves and usually have naturally high Defense. Bronzor comes to mind as a premier choice, especially considering that it is not bothered by Hidden Power Fighting. Beldum should also be noted as a check, if only for sake of completeness. Magnemite, too, can survive a Hidden Power and OHKO with STAB Thunderbolt. Aron and Shieldon take practically nothing from its STAB attacks and have their own STAB Rock-type attacks to kill Doduo with but must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting, as it will OHKO both the majority of the time. Rock-types are next on the list, with naturally great Defense and super effective STAB, though they usually have less than impressive Special Defense and must watch out for Hidden Power. Faster Ghosts can come in on Choice-locked Return or Quick Attack and hit Doduo with a Thunderbolt, though they need to watch out for Brave Bird or Pluck Drill Peck on the switch. Lastly, Doduo is quite frail and easily revenge-killed, and even with Quick Attack taken for granted there are a number of Pokemon faster than it that easily revenge-kill it, such as Elekid, Staryu, and Abra. Most Choice Scarf-users also outrun it, and priority-wielders such as Houndour and Machop can all come in on weakened Doduo and revenge kill after Doduo has made a kill, though they must watch out for Quick Attack.</p>

    Just a note, revenge kill does not use a hyphen.
  17. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    743
    Additions
    Removals
    omg (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Doduo can perform very well at what it does, being the proud owner of the standard combination of moves granted by both its types, a useful priority move, and the ability to simply stamp its way through weakened teams with whatever it happens to be running. Sadly for Doduo, its usage is dampened slightly by the presence of Taillow, who can run almost identical movesets but with greater Speed which, in Little Cup, can make or break a sweeper, not forgetting Guts and Facade to compensate for Doduo's slightly higher Attack. Despite the competition Doduo is undeniably an excellent Pokemon in Little Cup, and is not overshadowed by any means; Doduo's higher Attack and slightly better overall defenses, the ability to use Liechi Berry, Flail, and Roost, as well as freedom from self-inflicted status damage, gives it an advantage over Taillow in many situations. Underestimate it at your own peril.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Life Orb
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Naughty / Naive
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Doduo boasts decent Speed and Attack, with useful STAB moves and decent coverage, marking it out as a fast, physical sweeper. This variant of Doduo is a more sweeper-based option, aimed at clearing up weakened teams lategame with its powerful STAB moves, while relying on its priority to steer it away from revenge kills by faster foes. Return is the standard Normal-type STAB move, and is a good one at that , strong STAB; with reasonable power, perfect accuracy and no recoil effects. You will find yourself using it more than any other of your moves, not only because it has a great deal of neutral coverage, but also because it is your most reliable attack. Double-Edge is a more powerful but also more risky alternative to Return, that can give the edge do that little bit more power that can could make the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, but without Return's longer-term reliability. However, iIt is also illegal with Brave Bird, and as Brave Bird does not have such a reliable alternative as Return, so Brave Bird it is usually the more worthwhile investment. Your secondary STAB option has a bit more choice involved in the selection; Brave Bird is your most powerful option, though coming with the drawback of potentially costly recoil damage, and being of great use to hit some harder than Return where required, though you will mainly be using it against Ghost-types. Pluck is your another option, allowing you to steal Oran Berries from walls such as Bronzor and Gligar that come in to make your life difficult. While not as powerful as Brave Bird it can make your life much easier should you happen to catch them on the switch, not only preventing their healing, but also healing yourself as you do so.</p>

    <p>Quick Attack allows you to escape the priority death trap from Pokemon such as Croagunk and Machop that may try to bait you into using Brave Bird, and also allows for an assured end to weakened foes that may be carrying priority. STAB Quick Attack from Doduo can really hurt, and can allow Doduo to act as a fairly good revenge killer in its own right. Doduo shares the pain of many a Normal / Flying Pokemon in that the Steel- and Rock-types that inhabit Little Cup really make its life a trial, since they resist both of its STAB moves, quite apart from also being naturally very defensive, and Doduo has barely anything to hit back at them with. However, given the weak Special Defense of most of the Rock-types in Little Cup, Hidden Power Fighting, even off its pathetic Special Attack stat, does a lot of damage to many of them, most importantly Aron, who 4x resists both of its STAB moves. Thus, Aron is OHKOed and other Pokemon, such as Onix and offensive Rhyhorn, are always 2HKOed. Hidden Power Grass OHKOes Onix and Rhydon, as well as almost always OHKOing Omanyte and Kabuto, though it does not do as much to Aron. Hidden Power Ice is also an option if you are worried about Gligar, OHKOing offensive variants and almost always doing the same to defensive ones.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are incredibly straightforward, with simple sweeper EVs for maximum effectiveness at its job, and a defense-lowering nature to avoid spoiling the power of Hidden Power Fighting. Naughty grants greater attacking power, but Naïve allows you greater Speed, which can make the difference between death and survival, though the choice is really up to personal preference. If you choose to use Hidden Power Fighting, you lose a point in Speed, so it is recommended that you run a Naive nature to restore your Speed, and if you run Hidden Power Grass or Ice you lose a point in Attack, so you should run a Naughty nature for the same reason.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is as useful as ever to break the common Focus Sashes seen around Little Cup, despite most of Doduo’s counters resisting it. Doduo is frail even without a defense-lowering nature, and on top of this frailty, Stealth Rock damage, Life Orb damage and Brave Bird recoil, Doduo will not be surviving for long against a team that can potentially hit back. Rapid Spin support can help salvage some bulk, allowing you to come in unscathed, and thus giving you more of a lifeline to hang on, should you be struck by a weaker attack or require extra turns of Life Orb to do damage in. This cannot disguise the fact that Doduo is very weak to revenge killing, particularly from Pokemon such as Scarf Gastly or Scarf Cranidos, both of whom do not mind Quick Attack. You should make sure that you can deal with these threats to Doduo, as being unable to deal with revenge killers such as the aforementioned is often fatal for both Doduo and your team. As for what Doduo cannot pass through sheer force, those that resist its STAB moves are the main culprits, namely Rock- and Steel-types that do not mind Hidden Power Fighting. Bronzor is the best check around, and Doduo does not like being on the receiving end of a Gyro Ball. To deal with it, you should take advantage of its sole weakness to Fire-type moves; Houndour beats those that lack Earthquake, and Krabby can take any of its attacks and reply in kind with STAB Crabhammer, as well as easily taking on the Rock-types that also plague Doduo. In the case of Magnemite, Diglett can trap and easily OHKO assuming it does not use Magnet Rise on the switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While it may seem like a wasted moveslot to run Roost on Doduo, given that it is not exactly the most bulky of Pokemon, in fact running Roost comes with a lot of bonuses to Doduo that more than make up for the lost coverage move. It is an extremely useful move in the right circumstances, as Doduo is often liable to accumulate a very large amount of residual damage thanks to Stealth Rock, Life Orb, and recoil from Brave Bird or Double-Edge, which Roost helps to offset. Furthermore it also removes its unfortunate weaknesses to Rock, Electric, and Ice, and provides Doduo with a non-combatitive move to avoid Sucker Punch. For the other three moves, Brave Bird and Double-Edge are very powerful and their recoil effect is negated by Roost, as previously mentioned, although since you can only use one of them as they are illegal together, Pluck and Return are still perfectly viable options respectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is the standard max Attack and Speed, and unfortunately the leftover EVs have to go to waste. The choice of an Adamant or Jolly nature is entirely up to you and whether you feel the need for more Speed or more Attack. Lastly, if you decide to run a 29 HP IV, you can get 19 HP, which means that Life Orb will only deduct 1 HP per usage. However, this loss in HP can be critical against Bronzor that invest in Attack as well as for taking other neutral hits.</p>

    <p>The first and most obvious benefit of Roost is negating the residual damage built up from Life Orb, Stealth Rock, and Brave Bird or Double-Edge recoil that is usually the death of standard on Doduo. While healing with Roost wastes a turn, it allows Doduo to remain a force for much longer in the battle than it would otherwise. While it may seem optimistic to the point of foolishness to try to heal a weakened Doduo at any point, it should be noted that Doduo's presence will often force the opponent to switch, usually to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, whom Doduo can do very little against, and thus it is often a better policy to Roost on the switch. Aside from this, Roost can allow Doduo to beat its usual counters, most notably Bronzor, who has a good chance to fail to 2HKO with Gyro Ball, Psychic or Hidden Power Ice, allowing Doduo to outstall it with Roost, and slowly wear it down over time with repeated attacks. Another great advantage gained by using Roost is the ability to evade Sucker Punch, one of the most common forms of priority. Despite the fact that Doduo has priority of its own, it may not always be enough to avoid a revenge kill, and especially with Pokemon such as Diglett, if you can predict the Sucker Punch and use Roost, you should have enough HP left to beat the Diglett with, not to mention the fact that Doduo is immune to Arena Trap. Lastly, although by using Roost you remove your Rock, Ice, and Electric weaknesses, enabling you to occasionally heal on unSTABed attacks from slower Pokemon of that nature, this is a rare occurrence and the users of these moves will often have enough power to cause serious injury to the frail Doduo even without a weakness to prey on.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support helps greatly, again, to stop Focus Sash teams from interfering. The biggest difference between this Doduo and most others is the presence of Roost but the absence of a last coverage move. This fact makes it a lot more susceptible to those that resist its STAB moves, in particular Rock-types such as Geodude and Onix. While these are uncommonly seen, it may be wise to accompany Doduo with something that has little trouble against them, such as Staryu or Machop, both of whom can OHKO most Rock-types with their STAB moves.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Doduo is one of those fast but frail sweepers that cannot really afford to take a strong hit if they can help it. As such, Stealth Rock is a useful method of supporting Doduo; though it does not severely damage any of Doduo’s usual counters to any great degree, it does help by breaking the Focus Sash on Pokemon such as Abra and Diglett, hopefully allowing Doduo to get the kill and live to fight on. Rapid Spin support can be helpful if you are expecting to switch in and out a lot, as Doduo can find itself very short on health very quickly with Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    <p>Bronzor is probably Doduo’s biggest and most common problem, and without a lot of luck, no variant of Doduo can beat it. Although it can be weathered down through repeated assaults, it is best that you include a sound strategy in your team for beating it. Houndour can easily OHKO with its STAB Fire-type moves, and Krabby can pound it with STAB Crabhammer, while taking advantage of its excellent natural Defense. If you are not running Hidden Power Fighting, this extends to Aron, Shieldon, Magnemite, and other Steel-types. All of the above can be easily trapped and OHKOed by Diglett; Magnemite can also fare well against them. Diglett and Magnemite can both also switch in on Electric and Rock attacks aimed at Doduo with relative ease; Magnemite in particular makes a good partner for Doduo in any case, as it resists all of Doduo’s weaknesses, can trap and kill Steel-types, and Doduo can switch in on Earthquakes that Magnemite baits. Aron and Shieldon can both also be taken care of by specially inclined Water-types such as Staryu and Chinchou. Water-types are also useful to deal with Rock-types if you are paranoid about them or if you are not running Steel Wing. Scarf Houndour is also useful, aside from beating Bronzor, to remove Ghost-types that may try to switch in and revenge kill, if you are slower or for whatever reason not running a Flying-type attack.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, Doduo is quite frail, and relatively easy to revenge kill for most of Little Cup, especially with Life Orb, Brave Bird and Stealth Rock damage taken into account as well. Priority revenge killers such as Croagunk and Houndour have an easy time on variants without Quick Attack, and Pokemon such as Staryu, Abra and Taillow all outspeed non-Scarf variants and OHKO with their respective STAB moves. For this reason you should always make sure not to leave any gaps in your team that can be taken advantage of by any one revenge killer, as Doduo cannot always rely on Quick Attack to remove its foes. The best way to deal with it is generally to fight fire with fire, for example Diglett can live through a Vacuum Wave or Sucker Punch from Houndour and Croagunk respectively and OHKO both with STAB Earthquake, and still has its own Sucker Punch for other priority-wielders. The majority of those with Aqua Jet can be revenge killed by Croagunk or Mantyke, and Ghost-types such as Gastly or Duskull can beat Machop and Makuhita, with luck.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Doduo can use Choice items fairly well, something Taillow cannot do, but more often than not getting locked into a Normal-type move is asking for disaster. As previously mentioned, Doduo has little in the way of alternative moves. Drill Peck is an option if you dislike Brave Bird’s recoil and Pluck’s comparatively low power, but is quite average compared to them. Steel Wing allows you to hit Rock-types but its low power coupled with usually low damage output against common Rock-types means you are usually better off using Hidden Power. Doduo also has Endeavor, which can be used alongside Quick Attack and Focus Sash for a gimmick combination, using Endeavor as your opponent breaks your Focus Sash, then using Quick Attack for the KO, and hopefully weakening another Pokemon as well. Lastly, Pursuit can be used to revenge kill Choice-locked Ghosts.</p>

    <p>All you really need to do for Doduo is max out its Attack and Speed, since both stats max out at 236 EVs, and none of its other stats gain a point with the leftover 36 EVs. If you are using Hidden Power Fighting, Doduo loses a point in Speed, and so a Naive nature should be used to make up for it. Likewise, if you are using Hidden Power Grass, you lose a point in Attack, so you may want to use a Naughty nature to retain your original Attack. A 29 HP IV allows you to reach 19 HP, allowing you to take minimum damage from Life Orb, though it does interfere with Hidden Power slightly. If you are using a Substitute + Flail set, 76 EVs in HP gives you a HP stat of 21, allowing you to create four Substitutes, leaving you with 1 HP.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Far and away the best counters are Steel-types, who resist both of its STAB moves and usually have naturally high Defense. Bronzor comes to mind as a premier choice, especially considering that it is not bothered by Hidden Power Fighting. Beldum should also be noted as a check, if only for sake of completeness. Magnemite, too, can survive a Hidden Power and OHKO with STAB Thunderbolt. Aron and Shieldon take practically nothing from its STAB attacks and have their own STAB Rock-type attacks to kill Doduo with but must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting, as it will OHKO both the majority of the time. Rock-types are next on the list, with naturally great Defense and super effective STAB, though they usually have less than impressive Special Defense and must watch out for Hidden Power. Faster Ghosts can come in on Return or Quick Attack and hit Doduo with a Thunderbolt, though they need to watch out for Brave Bird or Pluck on the switch. Lastly, Doduo is quite frail and easily revenge killed, and even with Quick Attack taken for granted there are a number of Pokemon faster than it that easily revenge kill it, such as Elekid, Staryu, and Abra. Most Choice Scarf users also outrun it, and priority-wielders such as Houndour and Machop can all come in on weakened Doduo and revenge kill after Doduo has made a kill, though they must watch out for Quick Attack.</p>
  18. Fizz

    Fizz

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    878
    GP Check 1/2

    Changes
    [Notes]
    Removals
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    [Overview]

    <p>Doduo can perform very well at what it does, being the proud owner of the standard combination of moves granted by
    both of its types, a useful priority move, and the ability to simply stamp [stomp?] its way through weakened teams with whatever it happens to be running. Sadly for Doduo, its usage is dampened slightly by the presence of Taillow, who can run almost identical movesets but with greater Speed (which, in Little Cup, can make or break a sweeper) and Guts and Facade to compensate for Doduo's slightly higher Attack. Despite the competition Doduo is undeniably an excellent Pokemon in Little Cup, and is not overshadowed by any means; Doduo's higher Attack and slightly better overall defenses, the ability to use Liechi Berry, Flail, and Roost, as well as freedom from self-inflicted status damage, gives it an advantages over Taillow in many situations. Underestimate it at your own peril.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Life Orb
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Naughty / Naive
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Doduo boasts decent Speed and Attack, useful STAB moves, and decent coverage, marking it out as a fast, physical sweeper. This variant of Doduo aims to sweep,
    clearing up weakened teams late-game with its powerful STAB moves, while relying on priority to prevent revenge kills by faster foes. Return is the standard Normal-type STAB move, and is a good one at that: with reasonable power, perfect accuracy, and no recoil effects, you will find yourself using it more than any of your other moves, not only because it has a great deal of neutral coverage, but also because it is your most reliable attack. Double-Edge is a more powerful but also more risky alternative to Return; it can make the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, but lacks Return's longer-term reliability. However, it is illegal with Brave Bird, and as Brave Bird does not have as reliable an alternative as Double-Edge has, it is usually the more worthwhile investment. Your secondary STAB option has a bit more choice involved in the selection [The preceding sentence should be clarified]; Brave Bird is your most powerful option, though coming with the drawback of potentially costly recoil damage, and is of great use to hit some Pokemon harder than Return where required; though you will mainly be using it against Ghost-types. Pluck is another option, allowing you to steal Oran Berries from walls such as Bronzor and Gligar that come in to make your life difficult. While not as powerful as Brave Bird it can make your life much easier should you happen to catch them on the switch, not only preventing them from healing, but also healing Doduo in the process.</p>

    <p>Quick Attack allows you to escape the priority death trap from Pokemon such as Croagunk and Machop that may try to bait you into using Brave Bird, and also allows for an assured end to weakened foes that may be carrying priority. STAB Quick Attack from Doduo can really hurt, and can allow Doduo to act as a fairly good revenge killer in its own right. Doduo shares the pain of many a Normal / Flying-type Pokemon in that the Steel- and Rock-types that inhabit Little Cup really make its life a trial, since they resist both of its STAB moves, while being naturally very defensive, and Doduo has barely anything to hit back at them with. However, given the low Special Defense of most of the Rock-types in Little Cup, Hidden Power Fighting, even off Doduo's pathetic Special Attack stat, does a lot of damage to many of them, most importantly Aron, who 4x resists both of Doduo's STAB moves. Thus, Aron is OHKOed and other Pokemon, such as Onix and offensive Rhyhorn, are always 2HKOed. Hidden Power Grass OHKOes Onix and Rhydon, as well as almost always OHKOing Omanyte and Kabuto, though it does not do as much to Aron. Hidden Power Ice is also an option if you are worried about Gligar, OHKOing offensive variants and almost always doing the same to defensive ones.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are incredibly straightforward, with simple sweeper EVs for maximum effectiveness at its job, and a defense-lowering nature to avoid spoiling the power of Hidden Power Fighting. Naughty grants greater attacking power, but Naïve allows you greater Speed, which can make the difference between death and survival, though the choice is really up to personal preference. If you choose to use Hidden Power Fighting, you lose a point in Speed, so it is recommended that you run a Naive nature to restore your Speed, and if you run Hidden Power Grass or Ice you lose a point in Attack, so you should run a Naughty nature for the same reason.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock, despite being resisted by most of Doduo's counters, is as useful as ever to break the common Focus Sashes seen around Little Cup, despite most of Doduo’s counters resisting it. Doduo is frail even without a defense-lowering nature, and taking into account Stealth Rock damage, Life Orb damage and Brave Bird recoil, Doduo will not be surviving for long against a team that can potentially hit back. Rapid Spin support can help salvage some bulk, allowing you to come in unscathed, and thus giving you more of a lifeline to hang on, should you be struck by a weaker attack or require extra turns of Life Orb recoil in which to do damage. This cannot disguise the fact that Doduo is very weak to revenge kills, particularly from Pokemon such as Scarf Gastly or Scarf Cranidos, both of whom do not mind Quick Attack. You should make sure that you can deal with these threats to Doduo, as being unable to do so is often fatal to both Doduo and your team. As for what Doduo cannot take down through sheer force, those that resist its STAB moves are the main culprits, in particular Rock- and Steel-types that do not mind Hidden Power Fighting. Bronzor is the best check around, and Doduo does not like being on the receiving end of a Gyro Ball. To deal with it, you should take advantage of its sole weakness to Fire-type moves; Houndour beats those that lack Earthquake. Krabby can take any of its attacks and reply in kind with STAB Crabhammer, as well as easily taking on the Rock-types that also plague Doduo. In the case of Magnemite, Diglett can trap and easily OHKO assuming it does not use Magnet Rise on the switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks + Roost
    move 1: Brave Bird / Pluck
    move 2: Return / Double-Edge
    move 3: Quick Attack
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Roost may seem like a waste of a moveslot on Doduo given Doduo's lack of bulk, running Roost comes with a lot of bonuses to Doduo that more than make up for the lost coverage. It is an extremely useful move in the right circumstances, as Doduo often accumulates a very large amount of residual damage thanks to Stealth Rock, Life Orb, and recoil from Brave Bird or Double-Edge, which Roost helps to offset. Furthermore, Roost also removes its unfortunate weaknesses to Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type moves, and provides Doduo with a non-damaging move to avoid Sucker Punch. For the other three moves, Brave Bird and Double-Edge are very powerful and their recoil effect is negated by Roost, as previously mentioned, although since you can only use one of them as they are illegal together, Pluck and Return are still perfectly viable options respectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is the standard max Attack and Speed, and unfortunately the leftover EVs have to go to waste. The choice of an Adamant or Jolly nature is entirely up to you and whether you feel the need for more Speed or more Attack. Lastly, if you decide to run a 29 HP IV, you reach 19 HP, which means that Life Orb will only deduct 1 HP
    per use. However, this loss in HP can be critical against Bronzor that invest in Attack as well as for taking other neutral hits.</p>

    <p>The first and most obvious benefit of Roost is negating the residual damage built up on Doduo. While healing with Roost wastes a turn, it allows Doduo to remain a force for much longer in the battle than it would otherwise. While it may seem optimistic to the point of foolishness to try to heal a weakened Doduo at any point, it should be noted that Doduo's presence will often force the opponent to switch, usually to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, whom Doduo can do very little against, and thus it is often a better policy to Roost on the switch. Aside from this, Roost can allow Doduo to beat its usual counters, most notably Bronzor, who has a good chance to fail to 2HKO with Gyro Ball, Psychic or Hidden Power Ice, allowing Doduo to outstall it with Roost, and slowly wear it down over time with repeated attacks. Another great advantage gained by using Roost is the ability to evade Sucker Punch, one of the most common forms of priority. While Doduo has priority of its own, it may not always be enough to avoid a revenge kill, and especially with Pokemon such as Diglett, if you can predict the Sucker Punch and use Roost, you should have enough HP left with which to beat Diglett, while Doduo is immune to Arena Trap. Lastly, although by using Roost you remove your Rock, Ice, and Electric weaknesses, enabling you to occasionally heal on unSTABed attacks of these types from slower Pokemon of that nature, this is a rare occurrence and the users of these moves will often have enough power to cause serious injury to the frail Doduo even without a weakness to prey on.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support helps greatly, again, to stop Focus Sash teams from interfering. The biggest difference between this Doduo and most others is the presence of Roost but the absence of a last coverage move. This fact makes it a lot more vulnerable to Pokemon that resist its STAB moves, in particular Rock-types Pokemon such as Geodude and Onix. While these are not commonly seen, it may be wise to accompany Doduo with something that has little trouble against them, such as Staryu or Machop, both of whom can OHKO most Rock-types with their STAB moves.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Doduo is one of those fast but frail sweepers that cannot really afford to take a strong hit if they can help it. Thus, Stealth Rock is a useful method of supporting Doduo; though it does not severely damage any of Doduo’s usual counters to any great degree, it does help by breaking the Focus Sash on Pokemon such as Abra and Diglett, hopefully allowing Doduo to get the kill and live to fight on. Rapid Spin support can be helpful if you are expecting to switch in and out a lot, as Doduo can find itself very short on health very quickly with Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    <p>Bronzor is probably Doduo’s biggest and most common problem, and without a lot of luck, no variant of Doduo can beat it. Although it can be weathered down through repeated assaults, it is best that you include a sound strategy in your team for beating it. Houndour can easily OHKO with its STAB Fire-type moves, and Krabby can pound it with STAB Crabhammer, while taking advantage of its excellent natural Defense. If you are not running Hidden Power Fighting, this extends to Aron, Shieldon, Magnemite, and other Steel-types. All of the above can be easily trapped and OHKOed by Diglett; Magnemite can also fare well against them. Diglett and Magnemite can both also switch in on Electric and Rock attacks aimed at Doduo with relative ease. Magnemite in particular makes a good partner for Doduo in any case, as it resists all of Doduo’s weaknesses, and can trap and kill Steel-types, while Doduo can switch in on Earthquakes that Magnemite baits. Aron and Shieldon can both also be taken care of by specially-inclined Water-types Pokemon such as Staryu and Chinchou.
    Water-types Pokemon are also useful to deal with Rock-types Pokemon if you are paranoid about them or if you are not running Steel Wing. Scarf Houndour is also useful, aside from beating Bronzor, in removing Ghost-types that may try to switch in and revenge kill, if you are slower or for whatever reason not running a Flying-type attack.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, Doduo is quite frail, and relatively easy to revenge kill for most of Little Cup, especially with Life Orb, Brave Bird and Stealth Rock damage taken into account. Priority revenge killers such as Croagunk and Houndour have an easy time on variants without Quick Attack, and Pokemon such as Staryu, Abra and Taillow all outspeed non-Scarf variants and OHKO with their respective STAB moves. For this reason you should always make sure not to leave any gaps in your team that can be taken advantage of by any one revenge killer, as Doduo cannot always rely on Quick Attack to remove its foes. The best way to deal with it is generally to fight fire with fire; for example, Diglett can survive a Sucker Punch or Vacuum Wave from Houndour and Croagunk respectively and OHKO both with STAB Earthquake, and still has its own Sucker Punch for other wielders of priority attacks. The majority of those with Aqua Jet can be revenge killed by Croagunk or Mantyke, and Ghost-types Pokemon such as Gastly or Duskull can beat Machop and Makuhita, with luck.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Doduo can use Choice items fairly well, something Taillow cannot do, but more often than not getting locked into a Normal-type move is asking for disaster. As previously mentioned, Doduo has little in the way of alternative moves. Drill Peck is an option if you dislike Brave Bird’s recoil and Pluck’s comparatively low power, but is quite average compared to them. Steel Wing allows you to hit Rock-types but its low power coupled with usually low damage output against common Rock-types means you are usually better off using Hidden Power. Doduo also has Endeavor, which can be used alongside Quick Attack and Focus Sash for a gimmick combination, using Endeavor as your opponent breaks your Focus Sash, then using Quick Attack for the KO, and hopefully weakening another Pokemon as well. Lastly, Pursuit can be used to revenge kill Choice-locked Ghosts.</p>

    <p>All you really need to do for Doduo is max out its Attack and Speed, since both stats max out at 236 EVs, and none of its other stats gain a point with the leftover 36 EVs. If you are using Hidden Power Fighting, Doduo loses a point in Speed, and so a Naive nature should be used to make up for it. Likewise, if you are using Hidden Power Grass, you lose a point in Attack, so you may want to use a Naughty nature to retain your original Attack. A 29 HP IV allows you to reach 19 HP, allowing you to take minimum damage from Life Orb, though it does interfere with Hidden Power slightly. If you are using a Substitute + Flail set, 76 EVs in HP gives you a HP stat of 21, allowing you to create four Substitutes, leaving you with 1 HP.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Far and away the best counters are Steel-types, who resist both of its STAB moves and usually have naturally high Defense. Bronzor comes to mind as a premier choice, especially considering that it is not bothered by Hidden Power Fighting. Beldum should also be noted as a check, if only for sake of completeness. Magnemite, too, can survive a Hidden Power and OHKO with STAB Thunderbolt. Aron and Shieldon take practically nothing from Doduo's STAB attacks and have their own STAB Rock-type attacks to kill Doduo with but must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting, as it will OHKO both the majority of the time. Rock-types are next on the list, with naturally great Defense and super effective STAB, though they usually have less than impressive Special Defense and must watch out for Hidden Power. Faster Ghosts can come in on Return or Quick Attack and hit Doduo with a Thunderbolt, though they need to watch out for Brave Bird or Pluck on the switch. Lastly, Doduo is quite frail and easily revenge killed, and even with Quick Attack taken for granted there are a number of Pokemon faster than it that easily revenge kill it, such as Elekid, Staryu, and Abra. Most Choice Scarf users also outrun it, and wielders of priority moves, such as Houndour and Machop, can all come in on weakened Doduo and revenge kill after Doduo has made a kill, though they must watch out for Quick Attack.</p>


    [​IMG]
  19. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,614
    Somehow, I am either extremely tired, or this is perfect.

    However, to be on the safe side, I think this should have a third grammar check. Sorry about that. I'm also going to hesitate stamping this until I can check it later when I am less tired, in case there are other mistakes I missed.
  20. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,232
    GP CHECK 3/3

    pink is grammar edits
    blue is prose edits

    honestly i have no idea what analysis zystral was proofreading when he grammar checked this. the analysis was riddled with incorrect commas and run-on sentences, not to mention tons and tons of superflous information. also, you often used "you" when referring to doduo, so those all had to be fixed as well. sorry if i sound harsh, but considering there has already been TWO gp checks on this, i was literally shocked at the number of problems i encountered throughout the analysis -.- once you make these changes this should be good to go, however!

    [​IMG]
  21. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Thanks Snorlaxe, much appreciated.

    As for your comments - well what can I say, I was young and naive back when I wrote this and if I'm quite honest, my writing wasn't actually that good (hasn't really changed since but w/e)

    Oh, and I also want to blame the grammar standards 1 year ago when I wrote this, which were slightly more flexible - hence the large number of oxford comma omissions and continually referring to Doduo as 'you'.

    Oh well, finished now. Thanks to all those who contributed towards the analysis.
  22. Flora

    Flora Yep, that tasted purple!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Ah, wait, this isn't finished yet. =P

    First set should be 236 Atk / 240 Spe instead of 236 Spe due to Hidden Power Fighting being the main option. This compensates for the lost of Speed. If this happens, then a little rewording in Additional Comments first paragraph would be needed.

    edit: actually, would using 240 Atk / 240 Spe be a bad thing? By doing this, you don't have to worry about HP Grass as well.

    edit for below: i'm personally fine with it.
  23. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Damn those Little Cup EVs. Thanks Flora, I've edited the changes in. If anybody wants to check the new sentence:

    ...feel free to do so, as knowing me there's probably a mistake in there somewhere :)
  24. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Boxing
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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