On voting and civil disobedience

[sunny004]

I'm just going to keep this short:

Donald Trump wants to get Bill Gates and a bunch of other guys to "close up the internet." Supposedly for the purpose of preventing radicals from spreading their ideas. An article is below:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/08/technology/donald-trump-internet/

If you believe that CNN may be biased, just google it and you can find other quotes.

Discuss! I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially since we are using the internet by accessing these forums.

 

[Soul Fly]

this should really be on firebot....

 

[Codraroll]

I'm starting to wonder whether that guy is even in the race for the sake of getting into office any more, or if he's just trying to see how much of a literal nazi he can be while still having a significant percentage of the population supporting him. At this point, Trump could quote pretty much any tyrant from history and be met with wild cheers from his supporter base. It's beginning to look like a social experiment to expose the flaws of popular democracy and the media circus it has become.

On the other hand, it's a sign of something systemically wrong that he has become this popular in the first place. The other candidates don't draw the same appeal despite (or because?), well, they're not being that crazy. If politics has become all about who can provide the biggest show, something is seriously flawed somewhere.

 

[X5Dragon]

He should ask China on advice on how to build a "Great Internet Firewall"....oh wait he wants to tax their products to make importing them unprofitable, oops.

Edit: I still think he is the greatest political Trojan horse ever, the Democratics are so gonna win the next election I don't even think they need to bother putting the Republican party on ballot.

 

[Minwu]

Edit: I still think he is the greatest political Trojan horse ever, the Democratics are so gonna win the next election I don't even think they need to bother putting the Republican party on ballot.

If this has to do with his support for Hillary in '08, I think it just goes to show what little being a US Democrat means. The two sides of the presidential run are fascism and peaceful bargaining with fascism.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I mean, honestly, I don't even find what Donald Trump says to be the worst thing. I think the worst thing is that people are actually taking him seriously. I mean shit, he can suggest having Muslims carry around stars of Da - I mean special identification cards - and suggest closing the internet and still lead in polls? It's almost like this is some kind of social experiment to expose how willing GOP voters would be to support fascist policies.

Also, I'd just like to say that evil isn't gonna stop until people stop settling for the lesser of two evils. End first-past-the-post, stop just voting either Democrat or Republican, and get some third parties in Congress (I'd be happy with even just one Libertarian and one Green in the entire House of Representatives.) The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[newtonja]

Donald trump legitimately disgusts me. I really hate what he is doing. At first I liked that he was running just to see what rediculous things he would say but at this point the joke has gotten old and everytime I see him top of the polls I just get really, really disappointed. I just would like you guys know that not all Republicans like him and are brainless.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Well I mean, of course - both of my parents are Republicans and neither supports Donald Trump (my dad supports Kasich and I don't know who my mom supports) but the fact that he's leading in polls says something.

 

[Heatmor]

Donald Trump is taking advantage of the fact that people are scared of terrorism atm, which is the basis of these ridiculous claims he is making.

He wants to "ban all Muslims from the US"
and now he wants "To close the Internet"
He is such an idiot, it isn't funny anymore- it's just worrysome.

 

[DM]

He stopped being amusing a long time ago. He is a dangerous, racist, xenophobic, sexist, fascist demagogue, and the fact that he has so much support is terrifying, because it shows what kind of awfulness we still have lurking in this country in large quantities.

 

[UncleSam]

Did anyone even read the article.

He said he wanted to investigate blocking parts of the internet (ie social media outlets favored by ISIS and other terrorist organizations as recruiting tools) in ISIS-controlled regions. This is an ostensibly good idea in principle - literally the only argument against it is protecting the terrorists' freedom of expression to share their message, which personally I don't give two shits about and I doubt most others do either.

Of course Trump clearly has no idea what he's talking about (A. Such an idea could never work in principle as there would be a million workarounds available to ISIS and other terrorists and B. Bill Gates is not the person you would go to to try to get this done lol), he's probably just repeating what someone smarter than him suggested in as vague and non-committal a manner as possible.

If you want to be worried about Donald Trump there are tons of terrible/vitriolic ideas he is spewing on a regular basis. An example not too dissimilar from this topic's is that Donald Trump wants to end net neutrality because it is 'another top down power grab'. Countless other examples of his idiocy and clownishness abound.

This just isn't one of them, and this entire topic is a gross misrepresentation of what is actually a pretty good idea.

 

[internet]

I personally believe we should close Donald Trump

 

[faint]

I'm starting to wonder whether that guy is even in the race for the sake of getting into office any more, or if he's just trying to see how much of a literal nazi he can be while still having a significant percentage of the population supporting him. At this point, Trump could quote pretty much any tyrant from history and be met with wild cheers from his supporter base. It's beginning to look like a social experiment to expose the flaws of popular democracy and the media circus it has become.

On the other hand, it's a sign of something systemically wrong that he has become this popular in the first place. The other candidates don't draw the same appeal despite (or because?), well, they're not being that crazy. If politics has become all about who can provide the biggest show, something is seriously flawed somewhere.

Trump is secretly an ITS JUST A PRANK youtuber

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Did anyone even read the article.

He said he wanted to investigate blocking parts of the internet (ie social media outlets favored by ISIS and other terrorist organizations as recruiting tools) in ISIS-controlled regions. This is an ostensibly good idea in principle - literally the only argument against it is protecting the terrorists' freedom of expression to share their message, which personally I don't give two shits about and I doubt most others do either.

Of course Trump clearly has no idea what he's talking about (A. Such an idea could never work in principle as there would be a million workarounds available to ISIS and other terrorists and B. Bill Gates is not the person you would go to to try to get this done lol), he's probably just repeating what someone smarter than him suggested in as vague and non-committal a manner as possible.

If you want to be worried about Donald Trump there are tons of terrible/vitriolic ideas he is spewing on a regular basis. An example not too dissimilar from this topic's is that Donald Trump wants to end net neutrality because it is 'another top down power grab'. Countless other examples of his idiocy and clownishness abound.

This just isn't one of them, and this entire topic is a gross misrepresentation of what is actually a pretty good idea.

No it isn't. I'll apply the same argument against closing Backpage or other sites used as prostitution hubs against this. This is one of the scenarios where I think the slippery slope argument is a valid argument because if you block one part of the internet used by ISIS as a recruiting hub, they'll just find a new place to do it. Maybe it'll start off by blocking small services like Telegram, but eventually it'll get to Facebook (don't act as though there are no ISIS-affiliated people on Facebook,) Twitter, Skype, all of it is gonna have to go down.

Time for an analogy. 46 people died after jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in 2013 and there have been over 1,600 deaths from suicides off the bridge since 1937, when the bridge opened in the first place. Surely you could reduce suicides by just tearing the Golden Gate Bridge down, right? No, that's stupid, because all of those people would just find a new bridge to jump off of. And besides, why would you shut down a bridge thousands of people use just because a few people use it as a means to kill themselves? Why not give these people the help they need so as to not kill themselves in the first place?

Same thing here. Why would you block entire social media outlets just because of the actions of a few users? How about actually fucking go after ISIS? That might, I don't know, do something? Burning down bridges isn't gonna stop people from killing themselves and blocking social media outlets isn't gonna stop terrorists from getting their message across (and even you admit this would never work)

Regardless of Donald Trump's intentions with the idea, it's still fascism.

 

[Minwu]

Blocking social media outlets in "ISIS-controlled areas" would do little but obscure the truth. I personally would trust a Syrian citizen over the state of affairs in Syria, a Palestinian on what's going on in Palestine and so on over any news source. You already acknowledged how little a block would matter to any group with resources.

I'd like to reiterate that Trump has pretty much no good ideas for the world.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I still don't think Donald Trump is racist. I think it's just people blowing it up.
Oh, being against Muslim is not racist because Muslim is not a race, it is a religion. It's still not nice though.

I think it's pretty normal for people to not want illegal immigrants. Seriously, ILLEGAL immigrants, not all immigrants.
Elitist immigrants are welcomed everywhere, so it's not a race problem.
Illegal immigrants are usually the scums from their country-- they are not doing well in their own country, that's why they want change and come here.
I don't think being against illegal immigrants should be labelled racist-- you need some control.
Look, if you can choose and pick the best people to get into your country, ie: you have the power to do so, why not do so?

 

[Destiny Device]

i'm in no spot to talk about Trump's policies because i don't live in the US, but on its sphere of influence, which means all the info i get about him is very likely heavily biased. i doubt Trump wants to "get mexican aliens into concentration camps" like i once read and i reeeeeeally doubt he is in any way similar to Hitler, however.
anyway, countries with big social/economical issues tend to accept "far-right" ideals better because they think it will solve their problems (and hell, it usually does, except things get ugly later on) or just because they think the current government is not giving issues the attention or treatment they deserve. this wouldn't be the first time, and it will probably happen in some other countries in due time. i wouldn't say he is a fascist though, that's a strong term. he's probably just a nationalist, and nationalism has been generally frowned upon politically on the last few decades and associated to nazism and fascism in general.
is Trump actually leading republican polls though? what are the odds he wins the whole thing at this rate?

 

[Martin]

Trump leafing the polls is less a sign of twisted voters and more a display of the stupidity of mankind.

While trump getting in doesn't direcly affect me, the collateral damage he could deal to countries like the UK is incredibly worrying. When there is a legitimate petition going on to ban Donald Trump from the UK (not that anyone in parliament will take any notice lol), you know the situation is bad. Really what scares me is that, due to his power in the world of business, he may even be able to do all of this even if he fails his political campaign. This man worries me greatly and the effect he could have outside of the US is nothing to take lightly.

 

[thdhted]

To me, the problem is that both leading Candidates are idiots and essentially opposite sides of a coin.

Trump's a morally bankrupt businessman, his main basis is that he wants to fix the economy, and that's what 44% of voters want right now.(taken from a news site) His social policies are garbage, and he has no real clue as to how to navigate the Political River. That's why people love him, is the fact that he's not an established politician. He's an arsehole that gets attention for being exactly that.

Sanders has great social policies, but apparently has no idea how an established economy works. I'm sorry and don't intend to offend any democrats here, but a 15$ minimum wage is a terrible idea. At best, we'll have a recession while the economy adjusts, and at worst the entire economy will crash. Yes, I know he wants to steadily adjust it over a few years, but the problem is that artificially increasing the minimum wage causes either a large amount of layoffs for businesses that can't afford to start suddenly paying their minimum wage workers 10$ an hour or, inflation will set in to make up for the increased wages. Taxing the crap out of those who are successful in life is also a poor idea, seeing as how that results in said well-to-do moving somewhere where they DON'T have a massive tax levied on them, resulting in job losses for those who own businesses as well as hurting the upper-middle class, ie. the intelligent people who have made smart choices in investments and getting their education in a well paying field.



This is the problem right here. Both of the "popular" candidates are not the "smart" candidates. They both aren't really considering the results of their policies.

 

[DM]

I still don't think Donald Trump is racist. I think it's just people blowing it up.

The rest of your post is so ill-informed I won't bother dissecting it, but you do realize he has been SUED for racism on MULTIPLE occasions pertaining to being a landlord, right?

 

[Rugi]

You guys laughed when we had Tony Abbott so now you get the Trump. Karma is a bitch huh?

 

[Gerudo Flygon]

This is completely stupid and it will never work. Trump just needs to go. I'm always hearing his B.S ideas, and it always makes me lose faith in society. This is definitely his worst idea yet. If he becomes president, I will have no faith in America whatsoever and I will force my parents to move us to Canada.

Edit: Sorry for that huge reaction, I thought you meant all internet, not just in the Middle Eastern areas. Sorry about that.

 

[Heatmor]

Trump is going to get us into WWIII at this rate

 

[DM]

Trump is going to get us into WWIII at this rate

depending on your political affiliation, this post could be read as either upset or excited

 

[Heatmor]

Did anyone even read the article.

Technically that is a good idea, but it isn't. Bill Gates doesn't even have the power to close the internet, and I doubt Internet Providers like Verizon and ATTTT & T will not like having to cut their customers off.

He actually is on to something, but he's going about it wrong.