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(Done) Cloyster (Offensive Support)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Sweep, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Sweep

    Sweep
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    [SET]
    name: Offensive Support
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Shell Smash
    move 4: Spikes / Rock Blast / Toxic Spikes
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster provides a reliable way to stave off entry hazards early-game for teams that desperately need their side of the field clear for several turns. It can effectively lead against hazard setters such as Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S and prevent them from laying their entry hazards on the field. Cloyster's ability to function in any weather (apart from possibly sand, which breaks its Focus Sash) makes it a versatile spinner that can fit onto many team archetypes that need a short-term solution to entry hazards. Cloyster can also set up its own entry hazards thanks to its respectable Speed and offensive presence. Unlike Forretress or Excadrill, Cloyster does not possess the typing or bulk to come into the match over and over again, so teams that need consistent spin support throughout the match should look elsewhere.</p>

    <p>Shell Smash is pivotal as it allows Cloyster to outrun Deoxys-S and other entry hazard setters, ensuring that their hazards will be spun away. It also gives Cloyster enough power to OHKO the Giratina formes, preventing them from spinblocking. Icicle Spear is a powerful STAB move that threatens Ground-types such as Groudon and Gliscor even before a boost, allowing Cloyster to lead against them. It can also beat Focus Sash Deoxys-A leads with one use of Icicle Spear, though it should not attempt to set up a Shell Smash on these as they often have Psycho Boost or Superpower, as well as ExtremeSpeed. The last slot is dedicated to an entry hazard, which can be used against foes that Cloyster cannot OHKO after a Shell Smash and doesn't need to worry about spinning against, such as bulky Kyogre. Cloyster will outspeed slower base 90s, which is helpful in allowing it to spin against these threats even without a boost or place at least two entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field. The choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes is up to you. If setting up entry hazards does not appeal to you, you can go with another attacking move. Rock Blast OHKOes Ho-Oh while dealing heavy damage to Kyurem formes and opposing Cloyster. However, Rock Blast is very situational and your team will oftentimes miss the entry hazard support Cloyster can supply.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Explosion is an intriguing option that can OHKO Kyogre after a Shell Smash boost. On offensive sun teams, winning the weather war is often worth losing Cloyster's support abilities, and Cloyster does tend to lure in Kyogre. However, there is significant opportunity cost; like Rock Blast, Explosion is very situational and generally entry hazard support will be more useful. Ice Shard picks off weakened Pokemon and allows Cloyster to beat all Shaymin-S one-on-one so long as Cloyster's Focus Sash is intact. Unfortunately, it has little use outside of that.</p>

    <p>An Adamant nature can be considered over Jolly for the extra power. There are some circumstances in which the extra power will prove beneficial. For example, +2 Jolly Cloyster only has a 6.25% chance to OHKO physically defensive Giratina after a Shell Smash. However, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes it 56.25% of the time, allowing it a much better chance to get a successful spin off whatever comes in after Giratina is gone. Also, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes all variants of Groudon at +2, whereas Jolly can only KO 252/252+ Groudon 62.5% of the time. However, Jolly is usually superior as it gives Cloyster the ability to outrun all threats up to Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Shell Smash, whereas Adamant Cloyster is outrun by base 95 Choice Scarf users and up, such as Kyurem-W. The ability to outrun Deoxys-S after using Shell Smash is a pivotal trait that Jolly Cloyster possesses over Adamant Cloyster.</p>

    <p>Physically defensive Arceus-Ghost with Stealth Rock is troublesome as it can burn Cloyster as it sets up a Shell Smash, set up Stealth Rock, and kill Cloyster with Judgment. Because of this, Darkrai makes a good teammate as it can put Support Arceus-Ghost to sleep without worrying about Judgment or Will-O-Wisp too much. Kyogre gives Cloyster a hard time as Cloyster cannot hit it that hard with any of its moves barring Explosion, so Kyogre checks such as Latias and Palkia pair up well with Cloyster. Lead support Dialga can survive a +2 Icicle Spear, so a teammate that can take it out in one hit, such as Earth Plate Groudon, is greatly appreciated. Finally, all status cripples Cloyster; Darkrai is particularly troublesome because it outruns Cloyster and puts it to sleep with Dark Void. Choice Scarf Sleep Talk users such as Dialga and Terrakion can come in on an expected Dark Void and absorb the sleep. As for other forms of status, Ho-Oh can switch in on Will-O-Wisps and Groudon and Arceus-Ground can come in on Thunder Waves.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Cloyster include Pokemon that can take advantage of Cloyster's support sets. Dangerous sweepers such as Calm Mind and Swords Dance Arceus, Mewtwo, and Terrakion enjoy seeing Spikes on the opponent's side of the field, as they can wear down the opponent's team and allow Cloyster's teammates to clean up. Since Cloyster is too frail to consistently switch in on entry hazard setters throughout the match, teammates that can pressure these entry hazard setters are optimal. Palkia makes a great partner as it threatens Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gliscor, Groudon, and other common entry hazard setters. In return, Cloyster can prevent common entry hazard leads Palkia cannot stop, such as Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A, from setting up. Earth Plate Groudon can kill support Dialga (which beats Cloyster one-on-one) in one hit and sets up the sun that Cloyster generally functions best in.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that are weak to entry hazards appreciate Cloyster's ability to beat most spinblockers and pull off a successful spin. Ho-Oh is the first Pokemon that comes to mind, as it loathes losing half its HP to Stealth Rock every time it switches in. In return, Ho-Oh can kill Forretress that attempt to spin away Cloyster's own entry hazards. Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, and Reshiram also become far more threatening when their side of the field is clear of entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Because support Cloyster generally utilizes entry hazards, a spinblocker often pairs well with it. Substitute Giratina-O with Dragon Tail loves the Spikes that Cloyster provides and can use them to break down stall teams. Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost enjoys both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as the latter can wear down pink blobs, increasing its chances of getting past them late-game. Cloyster also offers the ability to spin away Toxic Spikes that Arceus-Ghost hates. Giratina is susceptible to all three forms of entry hazards and thus appreciates Cloyster's ability to spin them away.</p>



    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Offensive support
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Shell Smash
    move 4: Spikes / Rock Blast / Toxic Spikes
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Jolly/Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]
    -An offensive anti-hazard Pokémon, often a good lead.
    -Niches itself by being able to get past both Giratina-Formes easier than all spinners. Arceus-Ghost can spin block you, but you can Shell Smash on its switch-in, take a Judgment courtesy to the Focus Sash and 2HKO. If you opponent lacks priority after that happens, then you will spin.
    -Focus Sash is the item of choice. Cloyster is VERY frail on the special side, and the item guarantees a layer of Spikes on turn 1 against most things.
    -Plan your strategy, team preview very important.
    -Icicle Spear- STAB, ghostbuster, sash breaker (multi-hit). Higher crit chance since five hits. Just a nice move in general.
    -Rapid Spin self-explainatory.
    -Shell Smash allows Cloyster to bust through all viable spinblockers in the tier. Giratina-O and specially defensive Giratina are OHKOed, Arceus-Ghost 2HKOed and Great Wall Giratina can get OHKOed as well. +2 252 Atk Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 420-510 (83.49 - 101.39%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
    -Spikes generally better. Toxic Spikes are good vs Kyogre, Arceus-Formes and could potentially open up for stuff like Palkia (Toxic Spikes great vs Arceus-Grass). Debatable slash.
    -Rock Blast is useful for teams bothered by Ho-Oh. It also hits Genesect and offensive Kyogre very hard and OHKO's the Kyurems at +2.
    -Use on offensive teams that will appreciate hazard removal, spikes, and offensive presence in one support Pokémon.
    -Lead against Deoxys-S, Deoxys-A, Groudon, Custap Berry Forretress (if your team has no way to OHKO it with Reshiram or Kyurem-W that is).
    -Strategy vs Deoxys-S: Icicle spear first. If it taunted- spin. If it sets hazards- Shell Smash and spin/kill stuff. Vs Deoxys-A- Icicle Spear no matter what.
    -Vs Groudon: Icicle spear first. If it attacks, go for some spikes or KO.
    -Don't lead vs Dialga, Darkrai, they beat you easily (Dialga gets rocks on top of that).
    -Adamant nature for moar POWER, but you fail to outspeed choice scarf Terrakion after a Shell Smash, which will make you unable to pull off the spin.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    -Lum Berry for Darkrai (and nickname your Cloyster "I carry Lum Berry"). No, seriously debatable. I have never used Lum Berry, so idk.
    -Hidden Power Fire, can 2HKO Forretress. 0 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 176-208 (49.71 - 58.75%) -- 67.19% chance to 2HKO
    Does crap to Ferrothorn who can "spinblock" you with Iron Barbs if you get down to Sash…
    -Ice Shard to pick off weakened stuff, Deoxys-S etc. But it's also debatable. Thought I could mention it so we can discuss it.
    -EXPLOSION. No idk, just found it. It might not be worth it but it does some damage to Kyogre, its best counter (but it doesn't stop the primary purpose of Cloyster, spinning). Debate.
    +2 252 Atk Cloyster Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 478-563 (139.76 - 164.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO.



    - Teammates
    -Ho-oh, Groudon, Arceus-Extremekiller, Kyurem-W, Palkia, Reshiram, Kyogre, Arceus-Ghost, Giratina-O are some teammates I found good. One thing that must be emphasized is that team support is very important, especially the ability to threaten hazard setters, since Cloyster is to too frail to do its job indefinitely.
    Brief explanation about teammates (all this might not be in the analysis, mind you):
    Ho-oh- It appreciates the removal of Stealth Rock, and its ability to threaten to threaten common hazard setters with its Life Orb boosted attacks helps Cloyster. A banded set can take the sleep from lead Darkrai- a lead Cloyster hates.
    Groudon- As Cloyster is prone to being set-up on by Extreme-Killer Arceus on turn 1, Groudon provides a check to the God of Pokémon thus being a good team-mate for this reason. Stealth Rock support as well as the ability to OHKO Dialga who beats Cloyster and sets up Stealth Rock in the process+ sun support (Cloyster is best used on this team) makes Groudon an almost non-negotiable teammate.
    Arceus-Extremekiller- As Cloyster can fall to Deoxys-S using special attacks in two hits- Extremekiller steps up and revenge-kills the alien before it gets the chance to get hazards up. As a sweeper, Arceus appreciates spike support, especially when using Lum Berry to combat Darkrai leads.
    Kyurem-W- threatens hazard users. Can OHKO Forretress through sturdy. Appreciates Stealth Rock removal (all hazard removal actually). Water resistance, vital for sun teams, since it can semi check Kyogre.
    Palkia- Awesome with spikes support, and great at threatening hazard users. Toxic Spikes can help it bust through Arceus-Grass. Apprciates hazard removal more than Latias, another common Kyogre check. Because it can threaten Ferrothorn better than Latias- Palkia can often be advantageous to use on a team with Cloyster.
    Reshiram- Almost the as Kyurem-W, but Reshiram is a bit worse in this metagame :(
    Kyogre- As strange as it sounds, since I have preached for this set to be used on sun- however, Choice Specs Kyogre with spike support is deadly and it also appreciates Cloyster's hazard removal to keep Water Spout at high levels. It can also threaten common hazard setters such as Groudon, Forretress, Deoxys-D, Excadrill, Ferrothorn (Choice Specs 2HKOs) etc.
    Arcues-Ghost- To spinblock mainly. It's an awesome Pokémon anyway. Ofc Cloyster can support by removing Toxic Spikes, though.
    Giratina-O- Also spin block. And priority. Sub shuffler with Spikes can break stall.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  2. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo
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    So yeah basically, stuff is mixed up because at the same time Sweep was writing up what hack had left the analysis also became a revamp since he got a cool new spread for the standard LO set. (I haven't had a chance to look at it but it comes from Probs so I have my faith in it) It's really late for me, atm, so I can't really work with him on this like I should. (I'm totally out of it) The trouble is figuring out where we need to backtrack (like we gotta re-approve this seeing as there is a new set to consider) and where we can just move on from what's already up. Maybe we can have a sort of split analysis going on? Work on the write up for the lead set while Sweep sets up a skeleton for the LO set and hopefully we can check both at the same time so that they all catch up? Anyways, thought I should leave you guys a note since this got a bit complicated and I'm not really in the condition to help.

    <shrang> um
    <shrang> tell him to fix up the format first
    <Melee_Mewtwo> okay and what about the lo set?
    <Melee_Mewtwo> do we just skip skeleton stage?
    <shrang> yeah that's ok
    <Melee_Mewtwo> okay and do we redo qc
    <Melee_Mewtwo> seeing as there is a second set?
    <shrang> yep

    Okay, so basically we just need you to fix up the formatting of the way this is written up. There's a guide here that can help you out with figuring out when to talk about what and where. Hopefully, this should shrink the size of the draft you posted. Also, change the title to Cloyster (Revamp) [QC 0/3] so that it is clear that this became a revamp.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  3. polop

    polop
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    Messages:
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    Fixin the format.
    analysis with a couple of changes but a fixed format (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster has several traits that make it appealing to use in the current Ubers metagame. First of all, it can offer team support in the form of both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Secondly, it is one of the few viable offensive Shell Smashers found in the tier. Finally -- and most importantly -- it has access to the valuable Rapid Spin. Because it can use Shell Smash and Icicle Spear, it is capable of OHKOing Specially Defensive Giratina-A and Giratina-O, while 2HKOing Arceus-Ghost after a smash. Unfortunately, Cloyster is not without its share of faults. Pitiful base 50 HP and 45 Special Defense mean that even resisted special hits will bring Cloyster to its knees. Because of this, Focus Sash is the only viable item on Cloyster to ensure it has a turn to use Shell Smash, spin, or put down a hazard. Cloyster will struggle sweeping even after a smash against Ubers behemoths, as Focus Sash does not increase its power. Cloyster is also vulnerable to all forms of hazards itself, including a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock. The ability to beat spinblockers is the main reason to consider using Cloyster over other spinners such as Forretress and Tentacruel.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Support
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Icicle Spear
    move 3: Rapid Spin
    move 4: Spikes / Rock Blast / Toxic Spikes
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster provides a reliable way to stave off hazards early game for teams that desperately need their side of the field clear for several turns. Cloyster possess enough speed to outrun Deoxys-S after a Shell Smash, repel hazards with Rapid Spin, and kill Deoxys with Icicle Spear. It can also beat sash Deoxys-A leads with one use of Icicle Spear, though it should not attempt to set up a Smash on these as they often possess both Psycho Boost/Superpower and Extremespeed. Cloyster can also defeat other Stealth Rock setters such as Gliscor and Support Groudon, though it must be wary Thunder Wave from the latter as paralysis may prevent it from spinning. Beating Gliscor, which can be a pain for sun teams to handle, is a boon for Cloyster. Unlike Forretress or Excadrill, Cloyster does not possess the typing or bulk to come into the match over and over again, so teams that need consistent spin support throughout the match should look elsewhere.</p>

    <p>The last slot is dedicated to a hazard, which can be used against foes that Cloyster cannot OHKO after a Smash and doesn’t need to worry about spinning against, such as Bulky Kyogre and Tyranitar. As Cloyster can get off two hazards against slower opponents thanks to Focus Sash, it makes for a surprisingly effective hazards setter. The choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes is up to you, though Smash Pass teams Cloyster is frequently found on generally prefer Spikes support to help Smash receivers nab OHKO’s. If setting up hazards does not appeal to you, one can go with another attack move. Rock Blast OHKO’s Ho-Oh while dealing heavy damage to Kyurem formes and opposing Cloyster. However, Rock Blast is very situational and oftentimes your team will miss the hazard support Cloyster can supply your team. If your team is weak to Ho-Oh or already has Spikes support, Rock Blast becomes much more appealing.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster has a few moves that aren't listed that it can use well. Explosion is an intriguing option that can OHKO Kyogre after a Smash. On offensive Sun teams, winning the weather war is often worth losing Cloyster’s support abilities, and Cloyster does tend to lure in Kyogre. However, there is significant opportunity cost; like Rock Blast, Explosion is very situational and generally hazard support will be more useful. Finally, Ice Shard picks off weakened Pokémon and allows Cloyster to beat all Shaymin-S 1-1 so long Cloyster’s sash is intact. Unfortunately, it has little use outside of that.</p>

    <p>Cloyster’s access to Icicle Spear, in conjunction with Shell Smash and a very reasonable base 95 Attack stat make spinblocking it a nightmare. In particular, Specially Defensive Giratina-A and all variants of Giratina-O are OHKOed by a +2 Icicle Spear, whereas Arceus-Ghost is 2HKO’ed and therefore cannot safely switch in. Cloyster’s added perk as an offensive Rapid Spinner is not being reliant on weather. The only other Pokémon with Rapid Spin that can threaten all three spinblockers in any weather is Mold Breaker Excadrill, and unlike Cloyster, Excadrill cannot hit two of the three for super-effective damage. Cloyster’s ability to function in any weather (apart from possibly sand, which breaks Cloyster’s sash) makes it a versatile spinner that can fit onto many team archetypes needing a short-term solution to hazards.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Cloyster include Pokémon that can take advantage of Cloyster’s hazards and ability to spin quickly thanks to its ability to kill spin blockers. Dangerous sweepers such as Ho-Oh, Calm Mind and Swords Dance Arceus, Mewtwo, Terrakion, and others enjoy seeing Spikes on the opponent’s side of the field, as they can wear down the opponent’s team and allow Cloyster’s teammates to clean. Since Cloyster is too frail to consistently switch in on hazard setters throughout the match, having teammates that can pressure these hazard setters is optimal. Palkia makes a great partner as it threatens Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gliscor, Groudon, and other common entry hazard setters. In return, Cloyster can prevent common hazard leads Palkia cannot stop, such as Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A, from setting up hazards. Doing so maximizes Palkia’s ability to check Kyogre multiple times throughout the match. As Cloyster despises lead Darkrai, which can put it to sleep, so using a Sleep Talk user with Cloyster is also recommended. Scarf Dialga is a good option for dealing with lead Darkrai, as it can absorb Dark Void while making Trick useless. It can also bring Darkrai down to its Sash with Draco Meteor or Aura Sphere. Sleep Talk Ho-Oh and Terrakion are also great options for lead Darkrai, though the latter must be wary of Focus Blast. Earth Plate Groudon can kill support Dialga (which beats Cloyster 1-1) in one hit, and sets up sun that Cloyster generally functions best in.</p>

    <p>Pokémon that are weak to hazards appreciate Cloyster’s ability to beat most spinblockers and pull off a successful spin. Ho-Oh is the first Pokémon that comes to mind, as it loathes losing half its HP to Stealth Rock every time it switches in. In return, Ho-Oh can kill Forretress that attempt to spin away Cloyster’s own hazards. Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, and Reshiram become far more threatening when their side of the field is clear of hazards.</p>

    <p>Because support Cloyster generally utilizes hazards, a spinblockers often pairs well with it. Substitute Giratina-O with Dragon Tail loves the Spikes that Cloyster provides and can use them to break stall. Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost enjoys both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as the latter can wear out pink blobs, increasing its chances of getting past them late game. Cloyster also offers the ability to spin away Toxic Spikes, which Arceus-Ghost hates. Giratina-A is susceptible to all three forms of entry hazards and thus appreciates Cloyster’s ability to spin them away.</p>

    <p>An Adamant nature can be considered over Jolly for the extra power. There are some circumstances in which the extra power will prove beneficial. For example, +2 Jolly Cloyster only has a 6.25% chance to OHKO Physically Defensive Giratina after a Shell Smash. However, Adamant Cloyster OHKO’s it 56.25% of the time, allowing it a much better chance to get a successful spin off whatever comes in after Giratina is gone. Also, Adamant Cloyster OHKO’s all variants of Groudon at +2, whereas Jolly can only KO 252/252 Impish Groudon 62.5% of the time. However, Jolly is usually superior due to the ability to outrun all threats up to Scarf Terrakion after a Smash, whereas Adamant Cloyster is outrun by base 95 Scarfers and up such as Kyurem-W. The ability to outrun Deoxys-S after using Shell Smash is a pivotal trait that Jolly Cloyster possesses that Adamant Cloyster does not. Deoxys-S carrying Psycho Boost can easily kill Adamant Cloyster before it gets a chance to strike, whereas Jolly Cloyster can outrun and kill Deoxys-S with Icicle Spear. As Cloyster can potentially sweep late-game if its sash is preserved throughout the match due to its good power after a smash, the speed edge Jolly gives Cloyster over fast Scarfers such as Palkia and Terrakion can be crucial.</p>

    <p>Support Arceus-Ghost troubles Cloyster moreso than any other viable spinblocker. Physically Defensive Ghostceus with Stealth Rock are especially troublesome as they can burn Cloyster as it sets up a Smash, set up Stealth Rock, and kill Cloyster with Judgment. Because of this, Darkrai makes a good teammate as it can put Support Arceus-Ghost to sleep without worrying about Judgment or Will-O-Wisp too much. Kyogre also gives Cloyster a hard time as Cloyster cannot hit it that hard with any of its moves, so Kyogre checks like Latias and Palkia also pair up well with Cloyster. Finally, support Pokémon carrying Thunder Wave such as Groudon and Dialga can annoy Cloyster somewhat, so a Pokémon that can remove these threats in one hit, such as Specs Kyurem-W, is appreciated. Try to scout for these support Pokémon in Team Preview before sending in Cloyster, as the bivalve hates being paralyzed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Uber Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Icicle Spear
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Rock Blast
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Naive
    evs: 232 Atk / 32 SpA / 244 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster becomes incredibly difficult to wall after a Shell Smash, since it is capable of OHKOing many premier Ubers walls, such as Groudon, Lugia, and Giratina, thanks to its powerful Ice-type STAB. Icicle Spear is the crux of the set, because with Skill Link it effectively has a Base Power of 125. With rain support from Kyogre, a +2 Hydro Pump can KO many Steel-types who would normally wall Cloyster. Rock Blast obtains an immediate OHKO on Ho-Oh, and is Cloyster's strongest attack against opposing Kyogre.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is absolutely crucial due to the power it provides. A Naive nature with the given Speed EVs guarantees that Cloyster outspeeds Jolly Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Shell Smash. 32 SpA EVs guarantee that a +2 Hydro Pump in the rain will OHKO Steel Arceus after one layer of Spikes. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack.</p>

    <p>The following damage calculations give an idea of the raw power Cloyster wields after a Shell Smash:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/252 Impish Groudon: 121.5% - 143.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/252 Impish Giratina: 109% - 131%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 4/0 Palkia: 130.5% - 155.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 4/0 Dialga: 105.5% - 125.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/4 Dialga: 89% - 106.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/4 Ferrothorn: 95% - 112%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/176 Impish Lugia: 125% - 151.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Icicle Spear vs. 252/252 Bold Arceus: 62% - 74.5%</li>
    <li>+0 Icicle Spear vs. 0/0 Giratina-O: 97.5% - 118%</li>
    <li>+2 Hydro Pump in Rain vs 248/0 Steel Arceus: 88% - 103.6%</li>
    <li>+2 Rock Blast vs. 4/0 Kyogre: 90.5% - 108%</li>
    <li>+2 Rock Blast vs. 252/252 Bold Kyogre: 54.5% - 64.5%</li>
    <li>+2 Rock Blast vs. 252/0 Manaphy: 69.5% - 83%</li>
    <li>+0 Rock Blast vs. 248/0 Ho-Oh: 149.5% - 178.5%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Rapid Spin is an option over Rock Blast or Hydro Pump, allowing Cloyster to clear entry hazards if necessary. It helps that the best spinblocker in Ubers, Giratina-O, cannot switch safely into Cloyster. Another option is Ice Shard, which can be used to revenge kill a +1 Rayquaza or Shaymin-S. Razor Shell is an option over Hydro Pump, but it misses some noticeable KOs.</p>

    <p>Because Cloyster is so specially frail, it is almost mandatory to have either dual screen support or Wobbuffet as a teammate. A layer of Spikes is also crucial for some KOs. Deoxys-S can reliably provide both dual screens and a layer of Spikes. Arceus can provide both screens reliably, and can also burn physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp, easing setup for Cloyster. Latios can set up screens and then further weaken the opponent with Memento, giving Cloyster a free switch in, and likely a safe opportunity to use Shell Smash. Ferrothorn and Forretress can both supply Spikes as well, with the latter being able to spin away Stealth Rock, which otherwise severely hampers Cloyster. Ferrothorn is also valuable for its ability to threaten and wear down bulky Water-types, especially Kingdra, which are some of the best answers to Cloyster. Rain support is also required for Hydro Pump to pick up some KOs, so Kyogre should be paired with Cloyster.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cloyster doesn’t have many other options to choose from that haven’t already been discussed. Toxic is an option on the Support set to cripple bulky Arceus, in particular the dreaded Support Arceus-Ghost, but Cloyster’s severe case of the four moveslot syndrome makes Toxic a subpar option. Substitute eases prediction, but Cloyster’s low Speed makes it difficult to set up. Finally, Refresh is a gimmicky option on either set to relieve support Cloyster of status. For example, if support Groudon attempts to Thunder Wave Cloyster, the bivalve can use Refresh to alleviate the paralysis and begin sweeping or spinning. It also helps against burns. Beware, as Cloyster’s horrid bulk makes using Refresh difficult, especially against special attackers.</p>

    <p>In terms of moves, Life Orb Cloyster could use Surf over Hydro Pump, but the power drops hurts as you can no longer OHKO Arceus-Steel after one layer of Spikes. Cloyster can use King’s Rock in conjunction with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast to flinch the opponent 41% of the time. However, this item prevents Cloyster from securing the crucial KO’s at +2 that Life Orb allows (such as Jirachi in Rain). If you don’t want Cloyster to suffer from Life Orb recoil, the sweeper set can afford to run Expert Belt as Cloyster’s moves hit a wide variety of Pokémon for super effective damage. Unfortunately, the power loss against types Cloyster cannot hit super effectively is significant. Lum Berry can cure Cloyster of status, but due to LO Cloyster's lack of bulk, the item will often be useless as your opponent will usually opt to attack Cloyster directly. Finally, Nevermeltice and Icicle Plate can be used to give a 20% boost to Icicle Spear, but the damage output of its other moves will suffer.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Cloyster’s checks and counters depend on what set it is running. Lead Rapid Spin Cloyster is incredibly hard to stop from doing its job, which is to temporarily hold off all hazards. However, Physically Defensive Arceus-Ghost can burn it with Will-O-Wisp, laugh at Cloyster’s attempts to hurt it with Icicle Spear while setting up Stealth Rock, and finally killing it with Judgment. Cloyster can set up its own hazards on Arceus-Ghost however. Any support Arceus with Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock can stop Cloyster from spinning so long it isn’t weak to Icicle Spear. Arceus-Steel is particularly good at this. Again, there is nothing support Arceus can do about Cloyster if it chooses to set up its own hazards, so Cloyster isn’t necessarily worthless against them. Physically Defensive Dialga with Thunder Wave is another good answer to lead Cloyster, as it can paralyze Cloyster, set up Stealth Rock while taking 57-68% damage from a +2 Icicle Spear, and bring it down to 1% HP with Dragon Pulse before getting killed. Dialga can reset Stealth Rock if Cloyster chooses to Rapid Spin at any point as Dialga easily outpaces a paralyzed Cloyster.</p>


    I have a few changes that I wanted to say but I can't do it right now because I have to go so I'll edit it in later.

    I didn't do much aside from fixing the format. I reordered the AC paragraphs a bit but nothing content wise, you can c/p this into the analysis.
    long edit (open)


    EDIT: Ok so the stuff I wanted you to change was the overview and C&C. Your overview and counters only mention things that can beat spiker cloyster, not smash sweeper. Mention in overview how smash sweeper is another way cloyster can go, and its very strong, OHKOing even 252 HP support arceus after smash given rocks are up. The only true mons that can stand up to Cloyster after a smash are actually Water Arceus and physically defensive Kyogre, the physically bulkier of support arceus can stand up to Cloyster but in rain they're gonna get OHKOed by Hydro Pump. Priority snipes Cloyster after a smash (think espeed / Bullet Punch / Shadow Sneak). Anti-lead Ghost Arc (judgment + Espeed) stops both cloy pretty well too (smash sweeper cloy cannot have smashed yet).

    While cloyster is super fast after smash, Scarf Skymin / Darkrai / Mewtwo can outspeed and OHKO variants (skymin gets OHKOed by shard tho). Whimiscott + Thundy-i can para hax it and go down letting it be revenged by something else. Groudon, while it can't take any moves, weakens Hydro Pump to the point where any steel barring excadrill and Dialga can tank a move and OHKO. Even Forry beats cloy now, OHKOing it after stealth rock with Volt Switch and it can do that since it now is not OHKOed by Hydro Pump.

    Mons with Taunt sorta annoy support cloyster. Cloyster can't really touch Stall Two, and is defeated by Darkrai. Forry > offensive support cloyster, spins away hazards and can deal plenty of damage to cloyster with gyro ball or volt switch if it smashes.


    EDIT: PROBLEMS HAS NO SPREAD.
    "[10:50:29 PM] PROBLEMS: idr ever using a cloyster"
    QC 1/3 the only thing that remains is concision of AC, but since you've got all the content I'm giving you the stamp.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo
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    Okay so when polop told you to replace the standard Lo set with what Tobes had he didn't see the second hide tag. Luckily, I still had that pastebin of yours and we looked at the spread. Turns out there isn't anything that extra special attack really does seeing as the max attack was already enough to OHKO the physical walls Hydro Pump was designed to OHKO. Seeing as there is nothing wrong with what Tobes had written nor out of date (since Cloyster is still the same shit it was in early BW, even if saying stuff like Tina-o is the best blocker bothers me) there is no need for a revamp. Just go back to what hack had (except with your write up) of the set with set comments and additional comments. (and QC 2/3) The checks and counters doesn't really need to change since you can quickly mention whatever can botch the support the lead set is supposed to give and references to this set can be scms'd into the overview. (also go ahead and take this out of the hide tags)
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  5. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo
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    Okay this checks out so QC Approved 3/3
  6. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    yeah the first part of set comments needs some tweaking/ reorganization imo - put all the 'how to play cloyster in general' information in one paragraph (discussing its role as early game hazard control / its versatility weather-wise / its drawbacks as an inconsistent spinner / it can also lay hazard due to speed etc (this last one can also go under moves paragraph, if you so wish)) and stick to pure discussion of moves in the other. hope that was useful; feel free to vm if you'd like more clarification

    couple of more general gp-related things you might find handy to keep in mind writing future analyses: don't accent the e in Pokemon, and watch out to change all your curly apostrophes to straight ones (this thread might help)

    gp 1/2
  7. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Thanks, I incorporated the grammar changes while reorganizing the set comments (I decided to just get rid of the second mention of Darkrai as a threat to Cloyster, helped shorten the additional comments section a bit too).
  8. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    Amateur check, hope this helps!

    Additions
    Removals
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    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Support
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Shell Smash
    move 4: Spikes / Rock Blast / Toxic Spikes
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster provides a reliable way to stave off hazards early-game for teams that desperately need their side of the field clear for several turns. It can effectively anti-lead against hazard setters such as Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S and prevent them from keeping their hazards on the field. Cloyster's ability to function in any weather (apart from possibly sand, which breaks its Focus Sash) makes it a versatile spinner that can fit onto many team archetypes that need a short-term solution to hazards. Cloyster can also set up its own hazards thanks to its respectable speed and offensive presence. Unlike Forretress or Excadrill, Cloyster does not possess the typing or bulk to come into the match over and over again, so teams that need consistent spin support throughout the match should look elsewhere.</p>

    <p>Shell Smash is pivotal as it allows Cloyster to outrun Deoxys-S and other hazard setters, ensuring that their hazards will be spun away. It also gives Cloyster enough power to OHKO the Giratina formes, preventing them from spinblocking. Icicle Spear is a powerful STAB move that threatens ground types Ground-types such as Groudon and Gliscor even before a boost, allowing Cloyster to anti-lead against them. It can also beat Focus Sash Deoxys-A leads with one use of Icicle Spear, though it should not attempt to set up a Shell Smash on these as they often have Psycho Boost or Superpower, as well as ExtremeSpeed. The last slot is dedicated to a hazard, which can be used against foes that Cloyster cannot OHKO after a Shell Smash and doesn't need to worry about spinning against, such as Bulky Kyogre. Cloyster will outspeed slower base 90'(remove apostrophe)s, which is helpful in allowing it to spin against these threats even without a boost or place at least two entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field. The choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes is up to you. If setting up hazards does not appeal to you, you can go with another attack move. Rock Blast OHKOes Ho-Oh while dealing heavy damage to Kyurem formes and opposing Cloyster. However, Rock Blast is very situational and your team will oftentimes miss the hazard support Cloyster can supply to it.</p>
    (line break)
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Explosion is an intriguing option that can OHKO Kyogre after a Shell Smash boost. On offensive Sun teams, winning the weather war is often worth losing Cloyster's support abilities, and Cloyster does tend to lure in Kyogre. However, there is
    a significant opportunity cost; like Rock Blast, Explosion is very situational and generally hazard support will be more useful. Ice Shard picks off weakened Pokemon and allows Cloyster to beat all Shaymin-S one-on-one so long as Cloyster's Focus Sash is intact. Unfortunately, it has little use outside of that.</p>
    (line break)
    <p>An Adamant nature can be considered over Jolly for the extra power. There are some circumstances in which the extra power will prove beneficial. For example, +2 Jolly Cloyster only has a 6.25% chance to OHKO physically defensive Giratina after a Shell Smash. However, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes it 56.25% of the time, allowing it a much better chance to get a successful spin off whatever comes in after Giratina is gone. Also, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes all variants of Groudon at +2, whereas Jolly can only KO 252/252+ Groudon 62.5% of the time. However, Jolly is usually superior as it gives Cloyster the ability to outrun all threats up to Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Shell Smash, whereas Adamant Cloyster is outrun by base 95 Choice Scarf users and up, such as Kyurem-W. The ability to outrun Deoxys-S after using Shell Smash is a pivotal trait that Jolly Cloyster possesses over Adamant Cloyster.</p>

    <p>Physically defensive Arceus-Ghost with Stealth Rock is troublesome as it can burn Cloyster as it sets up a Shell Smash, set up Stealth Rock, and kill Cloyster with Judgment. Because of this, Darkrai makes a good teammate as it can put Support Arceus-Ghost to sleep without worrying about Judgment or Will-O-Wisp too much. Kyogre gives Cloyster a hard time as Cloyster cannot hit it that hard with any of its moves bar
    ring Explosion, so Kyogre checks such as Latias and Palkia pair up well with Cloyster. Lead Support Dialga can survive a +2 Icicle Spear, so a teammate that can take it out in one hit, such as Earth Plate Groudon, is greatly appreciated. Finally, all status cripples Cloyster; Darkrai is particularly troublesome because it outruns Cloyster and puts it to sleep with Dark Void. Choice Scarf Sleep Talk users such as Dialga and Terrakion can come in on an expected Dark Void and absorb the sleep. As for other forms of status, Ho-Oh can switch in on Will-O-Wisps and Groudon and Arceus-Ground can come in on Thunder Waves.</p>
    <p>Good teammates for Cloyster include Pokemon that can take advantage of Cloyster's support sets. Dangerous sweepers such as Calm Mind and Swords Dance Arceus, Mewtwo, and Terrakion enjoy seeing Spikes on the opponent's side of the field, as they can wear down the opponent's team and allow Cloyster's teammates to clean. Since Cloyster is too frail to consistently switch in on hazard setters throughout the match, teammates that can pressure these hazard setters are optimal. Palkia makes a great partner as it threatens Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gliscor, Groudon, and other common entry hazard setters. In return, Cloyster can prevent common hazard leads Palkia cannot stop, such as Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A, from setting up hazards. Earth Plate Groudon can kill support Dialga (which beats Cloyster one-on-one) in one hit, and sets up the sun that Cloyster generally functions best in.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that are weak to hazards appreciate Cloyster's ability to beat most spinblockers and pull off a successful spin. Ho-Oh is the first Pokemon that comes to mind, as it loathes losing half its HP to Stealth Rock every time it switches in. In return, Ho-Oh can kill Forretress that attempt to spin away Cloyster's own hazards. Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, and Reshiram also become far more threatening when their side of the field is clear of hazards.</p>

    <p>Because support Cloyster generally utilizes hazards, a spinblockers(remove "s") often pairs well with it. Substitute Giratina-O with Dragon Tail loves the Spikes that Cloyster provides and can use them to break stall. Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost enjoys both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as the latter can wear down pink blobs, increasing its chances of getting past them late-game. Cloyster also offers the ability to spin away Toxic Spikes, which Arceus-Ghost hates. Giratina is susceptible to all three forms of entry hazards and thus appreciates Cloyster's ability to spin them away.</p>


    wow this is like the least i've ever marked, good job
  9. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Made the changes, thank you.
  10. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego xXFaze GatoXx
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    Sweep

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Support
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Shell Smash
    move 4: Spikes / Rock Blast / Toxic Spikes
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster provides a reliable way to stave off entry hazards early-game for teams that desperately need their side of the field clear for several turns. It can effectively anti-lead against entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S and prevent them from keeping laying their entry hazards on the field. Cloyster's ability to function in any weather (apart from possibly sand, which breaks its Focus Sash) makes it a versatile spinner that can fit onto many team archetypes that need a short-term solution to entry hazards. Cloyster can also set up its own entry hazards thanks to its respectable Speed and offensive presence. Unlike Forretress or Excadrill, Cloyster does not possess the typing or bulk to come into the match over and over again, so teams that need consistent spin support throughout the match should look elsewhere.</p>

    <p>Shell Smash is pivotal as it allows Cloyster to outrun Deoxys-S and other hazard setters, ensuring that their entry hazards will be spun away. It also gives Cloyster enough power to OHKO the Giratina formes, preventing them from spinblocking. Icicle Spear is a powerful STAB move that threatens Ground-types such as Groudon and Gliscor even before a boost, allowing Cloyster to anti-lead against them. It can also beat Focus Sash Deoxys-A leads with one use of Icicle Spear, though it should not attempt to set up a Shell Smash on these as they often have Psycho Boost or Superpower, (RC) as well as ExtremeSpeed. The last slot is dedicated to an entry hazard, which can be used against foes that Cloyster cannot OHKO after a Shell Smash and doesn't need to worry about spinning against, such as bulky Kyogre. Cloyster will outspeed slower base 90s, which is helpful in allowing it to spin against these threats even without a boost or place at least two entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field. The choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes is up to you. If setting up entry hazards does not appeal to you, you can go with another attacking move. Rock Blast OHKOes Ho-Oh while dealing heavy damage to Kyurem formes and opposing Cloyster. However, Rock Blast is very situational and your team will oftentimes miss the entry hazard support Cloyster can supply.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Explosion is an intriguing option that can OHKO Kyogre after a Shell Smash boost. On offensive sun teams, winning the weather war is often worth losing Cloyster's support abilities, and Cloyster does tend to lure in Kyogre. However, there is significant opportunity cost; like Rock Blast, Explosion is very situational and generally entry hazard support will be more useful. Ice Shard picks off weakened Pokemon and allows Cloyster to beat all Shaymin-S one-on-one so long as Cloyster's Focus Sash is intact. Unfortunately, it has little use outside of that.</p>
    REMOVE SPACE
    <p>An Adamant nature can be considered over Jolly for the extra power. There are some circumstances in which the extra power will prove beneficial. For example, +2 Jolly Cloyster only has a 6.25% chance to OHKO physically defensive Giratina after a Shell Smash. However, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes it 56.25% of the time, allowing it a much better chance to get a successful spin off whatever comes in after Giratina is gone. Also, Adamant Cloyster OHKOes all variants of Groudon at +2, whereas Jolly can only KO 252/252+ Groudon 62.5% of the time. However, Jolly is usually superior as it gives Cloyster the ability to outrun all threats up to Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Shell Smash, whereas Adamant Cloyster is outrun by base 95 Choice Scarf users and up, such as Kyurem-W. The ability to outrun Deoxys-S after using Shell Smash is a pivotal trait that Jolly Cloyster possesses over Adamant Cloyster.</p>

    <p>Physically defensive Arceus-Ghost with Stealth Rock is troublesome as it can burn Cloyster as it sets up a Shell Smash, set up Stealth Rock, and kill Cloyster with Judgment. Because of this, Darkrai makes a good teammate as it can put Support Arceus-Ghost to sleep without worrying about Judgment or Will-O-Wisp too much. Kyogre gives Cloyster a hard time as Cloyster cannot hit it that hard with any of its moves barring Explosion, so Kyogre checks such as Latias and Palkia pair up well with Cloyster. Lead support Dialga can survive a +2 Icicle Spear, so a teammate that can take it out in one hit, such as Earth Plate Groudon, is greatly appreciated. Finally, all status cripples Cloyster; Darkrai is particularly troublesome because it outruns Cloyster and puts it to sleep with Dark Void. Choice Scarf Sleep Talk users such as Dialga and Terrakion can come in on an expected Dark Void and absorb the sleep. As for other forms of status, Ho-Oh can switch in on Will-O-Wisps and Groudon and Arceus-Ground can come in on Thunder Waves.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Cloyster include Pokemon that can take advantage of Cloyster's support sets. Dangerous sweepers such as Calm Mind and Swords Dance Arceus, Mewtwo, and Terrakion enjoy seeing Spikes on the opponent's side of the field, as they can wear down the opponent's team and allow Cloyster's teammates to clean up. Since Cloyster is too frail to consistently switch in on entry hazard setters throughout the match, teammates that can pressure these entry hazard setters are optimal. Palkia makes a great partner as it threatens Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gliscor, Groudon, and other common entry hazard setters. In return, Cloyster can prevent common entry hazard leads Palkia cannot stop, such as Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A, from setting up hazards. Earth Plate Groudon can kill support Dialga (which beats Cloyster one-on-one) in one hit, (RC) and sets up the sun that Cloyster generally functions best in.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that are weak to entry hazards appreciate Cloyster's ability to beat most spinblockers and pull off a successful spin. Ho-Oh is the first Pokemon that comes to mind, as it loathes losing half its HP to Stealth Rock every time it switches in. In return, Ho-Oh can kill Forretress that attempt to spin away Cloyster's own entry hazards. Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, and Reshiram also become far more threatening when their side of the field is clear of entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Because support Cloyster generally utilizes entry hazards, a spinblocker often pairs well with it. Substitute Giratina-O with Dragon Tail loves the Spikes that Cloyster provides and can use them to break down stall teams. Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost enjoys both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as the latter can wear down pink blobs, increasing its chances of getting past them late-game. Cloyster also offers the ability to spin away Toxic Spikes, which that Arceus-Ghost hates. Giratina is susceptible to all three forms of entry hazards and thus appreciates Cloyster's ability to spin them away.</p>

    2/2
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  11. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Thanks, I have made the changes.
  12. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Change title to (Done) Cloyster (Offensive Support) then :)
    Sweep likes this.
  13. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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