Donphan (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,527
    This is possibly the last OU Pokemon analysis ever. Um. Hopefully.

    Status: Done

    QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (wilson46) (Seven Deadly Sins)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (Oglemi) (elDino)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    [​IMG]

    Donphan


    [Overview]

    <p>The mere availability of other utility Pokemon, particularly Hippowdon in the OU metagame, leaves the premier physical tank of UU unnoticed and untouched by players a lot of the time. Don't be fooled by Donphan's current placement in UU, however, as it has quite a few perks to support its team and differentiate itself from the competition. Before you consider Donphan among others, keep in mind that your team will have to play to its main attributes, and be wary of its weaknesses to strong special attacks and several Ghost-type Pokemon (especially Jellicent).</p>

    <p>Donphan's main function is to eliminate entry hazards with Rapid Spin, and thanks to its fantastic physical bulk and Ground typing, it will most likely achieve this goal with little cost. Donphan also sports a base 120 Attack stat, which, paired with STAB Earthquake, makes it a durable, hard-to-ignore offensive tank. As a nice side bonus, its ability, Sturdy, has been improved so it survives attacks at full health, aiding in its survival against powerful OU attackers. Donphan, ideally, should be played with diversity in mind, since it can function well as a utility Pokemon while standing up toe to toe with major threats, unlike its competition. Overall, if you need a defensive buffer not named Skarmory, Ferrothorn, or Forretress, Donphan can be counted on to reliably utilize Rapid Spin and sponge strong physical attacks for its team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: OU Defensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Roar / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As previously stated, Donphan is a fantastic user of Rapid Spin due to its Ground typing, good physical bulk, Sturdy, and ability to stand up against many threats with gusto. After Ghost-type threats have been removed (which is easily executable thanks to Team Preview and the use of a Pursuit user), you are virtually guaranteed to be able to use Rapid Spin whenever you feel the need to do so. Donphan also fares well against other hazard users because it typically takes little damage from them, while completely retracting them from their usual duties.</p>

    <p>If entry hazards have been successfully removed, and Donphan is healthy enough, it's looking at a few more options; Stealth Rock is always helpful for providing passive damage if your team needs it, while Earthquake is useful for battering foes, such as Terrakion and Excadrill, before going down. In the last slot, Toxic is listed primarily to cripple any wall or Ghost-type, especially Jellicent, that might get in Donphan's way. With Toxic, the likes of Hippowdon and Tyranitar are unable to do anything useful while being deteriorated by poison, Earthquake, and Rapid Spin (if they so happen to pack Stealth Rock). Roar is available to phaze out troublesome threats, and finally, Knock Off is a lesser option that ensures item-reliant Pokemon are sufficiently crippled, including holders of Leftovers and Eviolite.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Donphan won't gain too much outside of maximizing its HP and Defense with an Impish nature, but its naturally high Attack shouldn't be ignored either. Ideally, a benchmark spread of 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def enables Donphan to always 2HKO Haxorus with Earthquake after Stealth Rock damage. Meanwhile, Donphan sacrifices about 5% in overall defensiveness, which isn't exactly a significant difference. Ice Shard is another attacking option, notable for stopping specific threats such as Dragonite and Landorus. Otherwise, Donphan is better off crippling or shuffling the opposing team with its last two moveslots.</p>

    <p>Defensively speaking, Donphan appreciates being paired with specially defensive Pokemon that have resistances to Grass- and Water-type moves. For starters, Blissey and Jirachi are good teammates to consider due to their access to Wish (amongst other helpful support options). Celebi should also be noted for its ability to fend off Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Jellicent, three standard Donphan counters. Because Donphan is often easily set up on, Whimsicott, with priority Stun Spore and Encore at its disposal, provides invaluable insurance against cocky set up threats.</p>

    <p>As a special mention, Donphan performs wonderfully when used in sunlight, being able to remove entry hazards for sun abusers and stand up against common threats in sandstorm. Additionally, Donphan's Water-type weakness is removed, though it shouldn't push its luck against predicted Surfs and Scalds. In return, its Grass- or Fire-type teammates can switch into Will-O-Wisp (and weakened Scalds to an extent) and wreak havoc with colossally powerful attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: OU Offensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge / Head Smash / Fire Fang
    move 4: Ice Shard / Stealth Rock
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a more offensive approach, taking advantage of Donphan's often forgotten, yet undeniably impressive Attack stat. Even with the set's slant towards offense, Donphan retains most of its defense, and the decrease in bulk (albeit a moderate one) is somewhat redeemed by its Stealth Rock resistance and Sturdy. Donphan's function, however, remains unchanged; using Rapid Spin should still be its main priority if entry hazards are present.</p>

    <p>As always, Earthquake is a staple for putting a dent in anything that doesn't resist it. Even Jellicent, one of Donphan's initial counters, is 2HKOed with prior damage. Besides Earthquake and Rapid Spin, Donphan has room for more coverage or support options in the last slots. Stone Edge, paired with Earthquake, provides near-perfect coverage, the two being resisted by only a few choice threats such as Bronzong. A more powerful, yet recoil-inducing alternative is Head Smash, which allows Donphan to check and KO threats it couldn't with Stone Edge, such as Gengar and Bulky DD Dragonite. Fire Fang is an acceptable replacement, even if just for threatening certain Steel-types, particularly Scizor and Ferrothorn. The aforementioned two, both of which are popular threats in OU, are enough of a reason to utilize Fire Fang, especially Ferrothorn, which can threaten Donphan with Power Whip. In the last slot, Ice Shard should be used to revenge kill weakened threats and targets with weaknesses to Ice-type attacks, especially Dragonite and Haxorus. If your team is lacking entry hazards, Donphan is certainly bulky enough to utilize Stealth Rock in place of Ice Shard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Just maximizing Donphan's HP and Attack with an Adamant nature ensures that it stays bulky while hitting hard, fulfilling the purpose of this set. You may also consider placing some EVs from HP into Speed so Donphan can outrun specific threats such as Blissey, although doing so squanders Donphan's bulk quite a bit in return. For other coverage moves, Seed Bomb deserves mention simply for fending off Quagsire and Gastrodon.</p>

    <p>Simply put, Donphan isn't as bulky as it is with defensive investment, so when placing it in your team, don't expect it to weather too many enormous hits (e.g. Choice Band Haxorus's Outrage). Despite this, and the fact that Donphan still has trouble with certain special attacks and Ghost-types, it should pull through long enough (with defensive planning in mind) to use Rapid Spin and inflict damage to soften up an enemy for another teammate. Victini, for example, appreciates the removal of all entry hazards, and can return the favor by utilizing an incredibly powerful V-create to badly injure the opponent. Even moreso, both can be utilized with Drought Ninetales and Chlorophyll Venusaur to deal catastrophic damage together.</p>

    <p>Paralysis support is another option to consider, as it allows Donphan to outspeed and 2HKO its normal checks and counters without fainting beforehand. Defensively-speaking, Celebi, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi can easily spread paralysis while maintaining some offensive presence against Donphan's counters. Celebi is the preferred choice out of the three, as the latter two are crippled by burns from Will-O-Wisp or Scald from Rotom-W and Jellicent.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of Rapid Spin sets, Donphan shouldn't venture much further in the offensive department. Choice Band, nevertheless, is worth considering because of the power behind Earthquake and other moves when holding it. Donphan can even run Rapid Spin on the same set to maintain its usual niche. Regarding attacks, Assurance, Seed Bomb, Head Smash, and the other elemental fangs can be used for coverage or power, though Donphan typically won't use anything outside of Earthquake and the other moves mentioned above. However, Superpower is most notable on either set over Stealth Rock, as it allows Donphan to reliably counter certain Dark-types and Balloon users, such as Scrafty and Excadrill.</p>

    <p>Counter is also an odd, but creditable option on Donphan. Thanks to its Ground typing, high Defense, and Sturdy, it often weathers enormously powerful physical attacks, such as Choice Band Haxorus's Outrage. Such opportunities are ideal for Counter, enabling Donphan to take out troublesome physical threats before they can touch the rest of its teammates. Counter generally does require some prediction to use effectively, so be prepared to face the consequences if the target attempts to play around it with support moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Technically, not much can stop Donphan from fulfilling its main duty: eliminating entry hazards. Even Skarmory and Hippowdon, in spite of walling Donphan otherwise, can't do anything to stop it outside of a weak attack or phazing. However, like all Rapid Spin users, Donphan's job is delayed if the opposing team's Ghost-type Pokemon has not yet fainted. Most defensive Ghost-types Donphan will meet have Will-O-Wisp (or Scald in Jellicent's case) at their disposal, although they have to stay clear of the occasional Toxic or Knock Off. If Donphan lacks multiple coverage moves, it will be unable to damage SubDisable Gengar as well. Generally, unless it has the appropriate tool for the appropriate Ghost-type, don't expect Donphan to retaliate too effectively.</p>

    <p>In terms of attacking though, Donphan can be easily stopped by physical walls if it doesn't pack Toxic or invest significantly in Attack. Its initial attacking power is somewhat hampered by a lack of effective coverage outside of Earthquake and Stone Edge, so some bulky foes with a set up move will have little problem taking advantage of this. A strong special attack, such as Heatran's Fire Blast or Latias's Dragon Pulse, will typically 2HKO Donphan thanks to its low Special Defense. If Donphan's Sturdy ability remains intact, however, most attacking foes can expect to take a lot of damage or be crippled before the elephant goes down.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Donphan receives Sand Veil as its Dream World ability, which isn't bad at all, considering it is one of the reasons behind Garchomp's ban. Outside of sandstorm teams, however, Donphan does require Sturdy to survive attacks it couldn't survive otherwise in order to successfully use Rapid Spin or set up Stealth Rock. Unless Donphan's team can handle opposing weathers, Swords Dance Gliscor should prove to be a more fruitful choice.</p>
  2. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    463
    For the Defensive Rapid Spin set, I don't think a Specially Defensive spread should be suggested. Donphan has a poor Special Defense stat and no resistances to any common Special move, and it does better taking physical hits anyway. Also, I believe that Fire Fang should get a greater mention, as it allows Donphan to deal with Bronzong and Skarmory effectively, who could otherwise set up and wall Donphan easily (especially Bronzong with HP Ice). Plus, Head Smash could be listed as an alternative to Stone Edge on the Offensive Rapid Spin, although it lessens Donphan's survivability and neutralizes Sturdy. Other than that, good luck.

    EDIT: When I said Bronzong and Skarmory wall Donphan, I mean that you can't get rid of them and they can discourage Donphan's main task...
  3. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,436
    I'd like to see Knock Off and Head Smash in OO.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,318
    Assurance is an option on Rapid Spin sets. If you have SR up beforehand, you can hit the Ghost-type for 200 damage when it switches in, which hits 33% harder than STAB EQ. Gengar is OHKOed, and Jellicent loses about half its health. You can even give it Toxic to further wear Jellicent down.

    Earthquake | Assurance | Rapid Spin | Stealth Rock / Toxic
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def, Adamant / Impish

    Alternatively, you can make Donphan choiced so that Assurance would even take out Jellicent. With SR set by another Pokemon, Donphan can take out Jellicent at 90% health with Assurance.

    Earthquake | Assurance | Rapid Spin | Stone-Edge / Ice Shard @ CB, Adamant nature.

    Stone-Edge for overall coverage, but Ice Shard is good for priority and for hitting Gliscor / Landorus. With Choice Band, Ice Shard actually hits hard.

    If it has Sun support or Donphan goes specially defensive, it can easily shrug off Jellicent's Scald and Rapid Spin with Odor Sleuth. Donphan may get burned in the process, so this is more of a last resort when Donphan needs to get the hazards off.

    Earthquake | Odor Sleuth | Rapid Spin | Stone-Edge / Knock Off / Roar
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef, Careful

    As far as physical tank goes, Counter + Roar is a good combination. You Roar set-up Sweepers who think they can set-up on Donphan, such as Gyarados. If they learned their lesson and attack the second time, Donphan can Counter it. It's also a more reliable way of dispatching monsters that Donphan cannot kill with QuakeEdge, such as Haxorus, Dragonite, and Air Balloon Excadrill / Terrakion. You can replace Roar with SR or Rapid Spin, if you prefer those utilities.

    Earthquake | Stone-Edge | Counter | Roar
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def, Impish
  5. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,970
    On the defensive set, I don't think fire fang is worth a slash, keep it to AC. Also I think stone edge should be there in AC with it.

    I would pair Donphan also with specialy bulky pokemon, Snorlax, Blissey, and Jirachi are all good examples. Celebi deserves a special note for countering Jellicent and Rotom-W.
  6. Camisado

    Camisado

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    134
    Choice Band set, but the only thing Donphan has on other similar users of the Band is Rapid Spin and Ice Shard. Major competition with Landorus and Excadrill.

    Have you ever seen how many different types of attacks Donphan has in his movepool?
    Earthquake, Thunder Fang, Fire Fang, Superpower, Stone Edge/Head Smash, Seed Bomb, Ice Shard, Gyro Ball, Bounce, Return/Double Edge even Gunk Shot and Assurance.
  7. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,970
    I don't think its slow enough to abuse gyro ball, but I could be wrong.
  8. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,107
    Even if it were, the coverage is the problem. Earthquake, Stone Edge/Head Smash, Superpower/Fire Fang, Ice Shard, and Rapid spin are all much more useful on a CB set and I dont see any hope of it fitting in another set.
  9. PandorasBox

    PandorasBox

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    44
    I would add Skarmory to Checks & Counters but to watch out if Donphan runs Fire Fang.
  10. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,436
    What in the hell will a Donphan Fire Fang actually do to a Skarmory? I agree with ScarfWynaut, though. An uninvested Fire Fang is weak as shit and shouldn't be slashed. Likewise, an uninvested Ice Shard is weak as shit. I really think the only options in that slot should be Roar or Knock Off with Fire Fang and Ice Shard in AC. Honestly, Knock Off is incredible.
  11. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,107
    The point of Fire Fang isn't to kill Skarmory, its for Ferrothorn that can effectively spin block you otherwise. In the sun Donphan really lays the hurt on it.
  12. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,527
    Alright, tested out Donphan today, and few things, especially with the Defensive set:


    • Yeah, I'm not having a good time with specially defensive spreads. I feel that enduring a 3HKO from certain physical hits is more important than trying to be fancy and survive a Gengar's Shadow Ball. If anybody else can attest to specially defensive Donphan's usefulness with evidence, I'll attempt to implement it in the analysis.
    • Ice Shard's off the defensive set because of low power output (and general uselessness)
    • Fire Fang, moreorless, is actually useful on the defensive set,despite little investment. The number of Scizor and Ferrothorn that attempt to face Donphan is many, and having a weapon against Power Whip Ferrothorn has been handy for the team in those instances. Fire Fang will have a last slash.
    • Alright, Knock Off gets the slash.
    In response to certain suggestions:

    • Counter + Roar sounds situational. Counter is a good move by itself on paper (being able to kill Outrage users reliably), however, so if it suits Donphan well, I might mention it in AC of Defensive.
    • You can eliminate Ghosts using team support, so Odor Sleuth can prove to be a waste of time in practicality.
    • I'd like some opinions on Assurance.
    • I'll try out Choice Band in the future, but it has competition. No matter what kind of movepool it has, it's still got competition.
    By the way, hurting Skarmory with Fire Fang should never be kept in mind unless you have sunlight support. Just saying (it's okay against Bronzong, though)
  13. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,436
    The set comments for the defensive set don't include mentions of knock off but still talk about ice shard.
  14. PandorasBox

    PandorasBox

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    44
    Okay since Fire Fang does NOTHING to Skarmory why isn't it in Checks & Counters as it can phaze, attack or set-up on Donphan.
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,527
    Donphan detracts Skamory from its original duty: setting up entry hazards. As a result, we can expect Skamory to switch out to another counter with the threat of having it's hazards spun away, or do pathetic damage with Brave Bird. That isn't to say that they both are good matchups against each other; Skarmory faces the risk of Earthquake when Roosting, while Donphan can be stopped simply by walling Fire Fang and using Taunt or Whirlwind. It will have a mention in Checks and Counters at best.

    As for Ice Shard/Knock Off, I fixed the issue.
  16. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,107
    You may want to look into speed creep on the offensive set, list enough to outrun minimum speed Jellicent with the option of going higher. HP EVs aren't as necessary as you aren't trying to be a dedicated tank anyway and can only tank the most powerful physical attacks (Excadrill, Landorus, Terrakion etc.) via Sturdy with max attack anyway. It may be more useful to outrun and 2HKO the Jellicent coming in.
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,527
    Even if Pokemon analyses did accept the implementation of Speed Creep, it would take a lot of effort and EVs to simply outrun threats with base 60-65 Speed. It's something when you require so much just to outrun Scizor, let alone Jellicent. I'll actually try running Speed EVs soon.
  18. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,527
    Okay, here's the deal:

    • I find that running Speed EVs has been proven to be an almost useless effort. If anything else, I'll just mention Speed EVs in the offensive set to outrun Blissey, but that's it.
    • Alright, Toxic gets the nod. Being able to poison Jellicent and opposing physical walls is almost too useful to me, especially when I can use Iron Head / Substitute Jirachi to stall them out even more.
    • Yeah, the other three options for Defensive Rapid Spin are all nice. Not sure what to deslash and what not to, though, so I'll need input on that.
    • I can't find myself using Assurance when I know Scald or Will-o-Wisp from Jellicent is pretty inevitable anyways.
    • Invest some Attack in Defensive?
  19. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,132
    Yeah max defense is pretty overkill, especially since you have sturdy; 80 or so EVs in attack should be fine. It also makes sense to place those 80 EVs in special defense to take things like Tar's Ice Beam better.

    252 HP / 176 + is usually a good baseline for any dedicated wall, unless it desperately needs max defense/special defense to live a specific hit. Even the lightest amount of special defense investment goes a long way on pokes with physically defensive skewed base stats (like Skarm, Tangrowth, Donphan, etc), and vice versa.
  20. Eternal

    Eternal
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,537
    Stone Edge doesn't really help much of anything for Donphan when it already has priority Ice Shards. Etealth Rocks is a much more viable move for Donhpan. Its ability to set up rocks and spin is the main reason to have a Donphan on your OU team.
  21. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,912
    ^ it's kind of odd to not see Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Shard on the same set together.
  22. pie cream

    pie cream

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    241
    Why not just make one set then mention the other ev spread in AC?
  23. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,970
    I don't have any calcs to disprove this, but as a former Donphan player I can assure you there is more then apple reason to run max defense. I have seen myself that some stronger offensive moves will do around 52%, and leftovers will barely bring me over the edge for to survive the next attack. Now if I run 80 less defense evs, then I might just be flat out be 2HKOed.

    I might post some calculations later, but its 1 in the morning now.
  24. Deinosaur

    Deinosaur GO GOOMY
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    I think we definitely need some calcs on this to show its worth. It doesn't seem super impressive but i may be wrong.
  25. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,970
    Overall, its not a big diference, only about a 5% diference in defensiveness. Some calculations for those that wanted them, its only 3, but it shows the point well enough.

    (Choice Band) Terrakion using Close Combat:

    252 / 252: 48.4% - 57.0%
    252 / 176: 51.0% - 60.4%

    Factoring in leftovers recovery, that gives Donphan about a 87.5% chance of being 3HKOed by close combat. With the 252 / 176 spread, that’s only 44.44% of the time.

    (Life Orb) Terrakion using close combat after a swords dance:

    252 / 252: 83.85% - 98.68%
    252 / 176: 88.28% - 104.17%

    With spikes support, the max defense set has a 28.07% chance of being 1HKOed, while the mix defense spread has a 65.57% chance of being 1HKOed.

    For those interested: (open)


    2 Layers of Spikes:

    252 / 252: 75.44%
    252 / 176: 100%

    Both sets are 1KOed after 3 layers.


    (Jolly and Life Orb) Excadrill using earthquake after a swords dance:

    252 / 252: 79.69% - 93.75%
    252 / 176: 83.85% - 98.70%

    But with spikes support, it brings it over the edge. So with the max defense set has only a 1.85% of being 1HKOed with a single layer of spikes. While the 252 / 176 set has a one third chance of being flat out 1HKOed with one layer of spikes.

    If those interested: (open)


    2 layers of spikes:

    252 / 252: 44.44%
    252 / 176: 75.44%

    3 Layers of Spikes:

    252 / 252: 88.89%
    252 / 176: 100%


    I am completely open to special calculations against this. Perhaps both are viable options, but I still think max defense should be the one slashed.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)