Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Uh, how'd you know the spread he was using? (unless he told you of course lol) If he didn't, however, he could have just as easily be running an all-round equal EV spread, especially since he was running SPECIAL METAGROSS.

If you know the spread of the mon that was hit with attack, you can go straight to the calculator and punch in EVs until you can estimate the spread. You don't need your opponent to say a word and it's a good way to figure out that something has a Choice Band / Choice Specs mid-battle. Also, no spread justifies the use of all-special Mega Metagross, so I really don't see why this a concern at all. Of course, we really shouldn't be bumping this with sets whose moves don't even show up in the 1500 move set stats.

 

[Martin]

Not arguing with you that Aerial Ace or Dragon Pulse Zard X is bad (heck, I've seen a Fly Zard X, talk about bad). However, Aerial Ace on Bisharp and Scizor has it's uses since it can lure in and KO Keldeo and Chesnaught, both of which are hard checks to the two.

Just making a note that, on non-mega Scizor, Acrobatics is better just in case you eat a knock off, while 5 BP isn't a notable drop in power anyway.

So that this isn't a shitty 1-liner, I'm just going to bring up something that people often use even though they shouldn't. BTW, I'm not saying that either of these are common, but I'm just saying that for whatever reason you see people using this even though it is bad. Sorry if this has already been done, but its not in the archive so...

Don't use this:

Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compoundeyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

or this:

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Spore / Dark Void
- Magic Coat

Why they're bad: Sticky Web isn't very good in the first place, but using an inferior setter just turns "not great" into "bad". While I get that they are the two fastest setters yada yada yada it doesn't mean sh*t if I am losing my only setter of the thing that means my team isn't at a disadvantage on turn 2. Seriously: hazards are easier than ever to get rid of, so being able to re-lay Sticky Web is a necessity on a webs team. Therefore, Galvantula and Smeargle simply doesn't fit the bill due their extreme frailty.

Instead, use this:

Shuckle @ Mental Herb / Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Infestation / Toxic / Knock Off

Why it's better: Shuckle's bulk allows it to lay hazards multiple times per match as opposed to as a suicide lead. It is very capable of being problematic for your opponent too, with access to Encore to prevent it from being set up on, dual hazards, Toxic and Infestation for passive damage and Knock Off for utility. It is just better at what it does than all other setters are, and as such it is the only one that should ever be used in OU.

 

[Karxrida]

I personally wouldn't run Acro on Scizor, since it's not as good of a Knock Off absorber as Gliscor due to less physical bulk and lacking the Poison Heal recovery. Also, the 5 BP does matter a bit more due to Technecian.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Just making a note that, on non-mega Scizor, Acrobatics is better just in case you eat a knock off, while 5 BP isn't a notable drop in power anyway.

So that this isn't a shitty 1-liner, I'm just going to bring up something that people often use even though they shouldn't. BTW, I'm not saying that either of these are common, but I'm just saying that for whatever reason you see people using this even though it is bad. Sorry if this has already been done, but its not in the archive so...

Don't use this:

Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compoundeyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

or this:

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Spore / Dark Void
- Magic Coat

Why they're bad: Sticky Web isn't very good in the first place, but using an inferior setter just turns "not great" into "bad". While I get that they are the two fastest setters yada yada yada it doesn't mean sh*t if I am losing my only setter of the thing that means my team isn't at a disadvantage on turn 2. Seriously: hazards are easier than ever to get rid of, so being able to re-lay Sticky Web is a necessity on a webs team. Therefore, Galvantula and Smeargle simply doesn't fit the bill due their extreme frailty.

Instead, use this:

Shuckle @ Mental Herb / Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Infestation / Toxic / Knock Off

Why it's better: Shuckle's bulk allows it to lay hazards multiple times per match as opposed to as a suicide lead. It is very capable of being problematic for your opponent too, with access to Encore to prevent it from being set up on, dual hazards, Toxic and Infestation for passive damage and Knock Off for utility. It is just better at what it does than all other setters are, and as such it is the only one that should ever be used in OU.

Someone did this a while back. You should have made added geopass in the instead use this if you want to use smeargle as it's lead set is godawful.

Don't use this:

Why it's bad:
One of my favourite Gen 5 'mon has been seeing quite a bit of use on the ladder lately -- #115 in usage -- and it's easy to see why. It seems to have this niche of being the one and only offensive Sticky Web user; with a nice speed tier of 108, and while 97 special attack isn't bad Compoundeyes STAB thunder seems to make up for it. However, that's where the pros end. Sticky Web on it's own is generally a sub-par hazard as it doesn't cause any chip damage to the opposing Pokémon; Stealth Rock is a solid hazard because it's guaranteed to have an effect on everything except those with Magic Guard. Sticky Web doesn't affect flying-types or levitators, which becomes a big problem when those are the most common defoggers in the tier (Lati@s, Mandibuzz, Skarmory, etc). There are also a lot of slow teams with Pokémon like Sableye and Slowbro who frankly don't care about getting their speed lowered, Trick Room teams and Gyro Ball users who love getting webbed, and finally Serperior and the oh so common Bisharp who will absolutely destroy you if they switch into a web. Sticky Web has gotten worse and worse as Gen 6 has moved along, and it on it's own is a completely unreliable and unsatisfactory hazard. This is why you'd want a secondary entry hazard alongside Web; and running two suicide leads on a team is generally very limiting and not a good idea. Galvantula on itself isn't great either; it's beaten by a lot of common SR leads such as Mamoswine, while entry hazard controller Mega Sableye just ruins it's day. The one thing it really has to it's name is having STAB on two types that beat common defoggers such as Latios and Skarmory, but that's not quite enough to save it from being unviable, especially with it's 97 base special attack is holding it back:
252 SpA Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 192-228 (60.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 276-326 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 222-264 (74.2 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Use this instead:

Why it's better:
Yes, Shuckle. While arguably it's gotten worse with the rise of Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, it still holds the niche in being the only Pokémon - aside from Smeargle - to get both Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, making it the only viable user of Sticky Web. It's stupidly high 230 defences are of course the reason you should use it over Smeargle, and while it has the offensive presence of a feather, it has a better use in Encore and Infestation, which allow it to do one of two things to an incoming defogger or rapid spinner -- it can trap them with infestation so you can switch out to a counter, or it can encore them so you can either safely set up your second hazard (usually set up rocks before web), or switch out to a set-up Pokémon to take complete advantage of them.

 

[Martin]

Someone did this a while back. You should have made added geopass in the instead use this if you want to use smeargle as it's lead set is godawful.

Geopass is also god-awful and cancerous tho, so that'd be counterproductive. Also, I said "sorry if someone has already made this post" just in case, but u didn't say whether u saw it so wutever :) thanks for pointing it out tho - i just couldn't be f*cked to look through 18 pages to find it XD

 

[Kurona]

Geopass is also god-awful and cancerous tho, so that'd be counterproductive. Also, I said "sorry if someone has already made this post" just in case, but u didn't say whether u saw it so wutever :) thanks for pointing it out tho - i just couldn't be f*cked to look through 18 pages to find it XD

Geopass is actually (unfortunately) extremely effective, so while arguably a playstyle that we don't want to promote, it would still fit under the 'this is better and viable' title.

 

[serperioriscool]

I saw this while ladding today.
For the love of gawd

Don't EVER use this:

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Rock Polish
- Flash Cannon
- Grass Knot

Why it's bad:
Mega Metagross may seem like a decent Special Attacker not but its more inclined to using Physical Attacks and Grass Knot as the ONLY Special Coverage move you should use. The reason to go physical is because Mega Metagross has a Special Attack stat of 105 which is decent by all means, but its Attack is at 145 and it has the ability Tough Claws meaning you're Physical moves get boosted as if by a Life Orb far surpasses 105.

Instead use this:

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Meteor Mash
- Grass Knot

Why its better:
This set takes full advantage of Mega Metagross's full potential. Zen Heabutt, Meteor Mash, Hammer Arm, AND Grass Knot all make contact meaning they get the Tough claws boost as well as, except Grass Knot, benefit from its higher Attack Stat.

Or use these

Why they're better?
All these Pokemon are far better Special Attackers than Metagross and have movesets that support their Special Attack stat which for the most part is higher than Mega Metagross's.

I sorta disagree with the Bolded part.
While it's a strange and pretty unheard of move on megagross I love using hp fire on mega gross to lure in megazor and do major damage to it.
Also.
Don't run jolly with grass knot,run naive instead

 

[Talpr0ne]

Jolly still nets the 2hko on every realistic target of the move(Hippowdon, Slowbro, Starmie, Quagsire, Rhyperior etc.), so running Naive or Hasty just undermines the ability of Metagross to switch into things.

 

[Miridy]

Jolly still nets the 2hko on every realistic target of the move(Hippowdon, Slowbro, Starmie, Quagsire, Rhyperior etc.) with Jolly, so running Naive or Hasty just undermines the ability of Metagross to switch into things.

I respectfully disagree on that, Naive Grass Knot will 2hko 248/84+/176 Mega Slowbro, which is one of the most common spread for him, with a Jolly Nature however the possibility is only a 22%, making the presence of Stealth Rocks pretty much required.

The nature choice also helps against Special Defensive Hippowdon, with a jolly nature gknot only has a 2% chance to 2hko Hippo (42% with Stealth Rocks) while with a Naive nature it has a 82% chance to 2hko it without Stealth Rocks support, and obviously a clean 2hko with Stealth Rocks.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Jolly is actually preferred most of the time as it lets Mega Metagross switch into special attackers such as Clefable and Latios better. A lot of Slowbros actually run more Special Defense investment in order to avoid the 2HKO from Naive Grass Knot anyway. Naive is certainly viable for stuff like Hippowdon and 24 SpD Slowbro but the inability to switch into Fairy- and Dragon-types is detrimental.

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 128-152 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 114-136 (37.8 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 129-152 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 144-169 (47.8 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Analytic]

Jolly is actually preferred most of the time as it lets Mega Metagross switch into special attackers such as Clefable and Latios better. A lot of Slowbros actually run more Special Defense investment in order to avoid the 2HKO from Naive Grass Knot anyway. Naive is certainly viable for stuff like Hippowdon and 24 SpD Slowbro but the inability to switch into Fairy- and Dragon-types is detrimental.

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 128-152 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 114-136 (37.8 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 129-152 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 144-169 (47.8 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

To be fair, hard switching into a Latios or Clefable makes you a bit vulnerable to a stray HP Fire or Thunder Wave.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Yeah but it's more or less a safety net sort of thing when you predict a Draco Meteor or a Moonblast from Latios and Clefable respectively. The extra bulk lets Metagross come in and threaten something out better. As a said, I am by no means saying Naive is bad, but Jolly is more so preferred in this metagame.

 

[Miridy]

tbf the two damage calcs you posted were (much) more important back in XY, atm Choice Specs Sylveon (and Sylveon itself) usage declined by a lot, along with Flamethrower Clefable, if Clefable wants to cripple Mega Metagross it can run Thunder Wave anyways, which also allows it to cripple other stuff on the switch like Gengar, Heatran, Talonflame, Mega Venusaur etc.
it is also impossible for Mega Slowbro to resist 2 grass Knot from (Naive) mega Metagross, even a max hp max sdef calm mega Slowbro will have an 89% (94% if you go with 4 evs on satk) chance to be 2hked by Grass Knot after Stealth Rocks by a Naive one, (the jolly one has only a meager 3.9% chance) you also lose a good deal of things by not going Bold, for example, the ability to not get 2hked by Diggersby, not really worth it.

if we want to analyze specifically the choice between naive and Jolly, I would consider more used contemporary movesets, for example, one reason not to run Naive on Mega Metagross is because it gives Life Orb Kyurem-B's Earth Power an ohko chance.

So, it's either a question if you want to specifically kill "fat" stuff like Mega Slowbro or Special Defensive Hippowdon, or if your team has more troubles coming in against Kyurem-Black, but Naive is by no means inferior to Jolly, it's a team dependant situation.

 

[Bice]

For the love of Palutena, if I see this one more time...

PLEASE Don't use this:

Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake

Simply put, Mega Latios is an extremely outclassed and unnecessary Mega. While the extra bulk is nice, the loss in power is not worth it. The power is even lower than Life Orb Latios! Even though the attack stat is higher, chances are it still won't be worth it. Not only that, it is a major waste of a mega slot, which prevents the use of more useful megas (Mega Gardevoir, Mega Zards, etc.).

Instead, use...

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Roost

Latios is good enough without a mega. Life Orb Latios hits significantly harder than his mega counterpart. While Mega Latios's Earthquake hits harder than Latios's, HP fire is the recommended option over EQ. Since Mega Latios doesn't even get a speed boost, normal Latios further outclasses it. And to finish it off, Latios doesn't use up a mega slot, making it the superior option.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

For the love of Palutena, if I see this one more time...

PLEASE Don't use this:

Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake

Simply put, Mega Latios is an extremely outclassed and unnecessary Mega. While the extra bulk is nice, the loss in power is not worth it. The power is even lower than Life Orb Latios! Even though the attack stat is higher, chances are it still won't be worth it. Not only that, it is a major waste of a mega slot, which prevents the use of more useful megas (Mega Gardevoir, Mega Zards, etc.).

Instead, use...

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Roost

Latios is good enough without a mega. Life Orb Latios hits significantly harder than his mega counterpart. While Mega Latios's Earthquake hits harder than Latios's, HP fire is the recommended option over EQ. Since Mega Latios doesn't even get a speed boost, normal Latios further outclasses it. And to finish it off, Latios doesn't use up a mega slot, making it the superior option.

Latios is admittedly better than it's mega most of the time, but its mega does have a very small niche in being able to OHKO 'tran after rocks 100% of the time:
0 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.3 - 105.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
while i probably won't recommend using Mega Latios just for that, it is usable.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I wouldn't say HP Fire is the superior option to Earthquake on Life Orb Latios - as the writer of the analysis, I can say that Earthquake definitely does have its merits, which is deal with Empoleon, Heatran, Bisharp (especially Assault Vest variants), Tyranitar, and Mega Diancie. To be frank most of the time I don't use HP Fire because of the drop in Speed IVs meaning Latios no longer Speed ties with the likes of Mega Metagross, Mega Diancie, Mega Gallade etc., you get it, and favor Roost or Shadow Ball instead.

Mega Latios has better bulk which isn't totally negligible because the more bulk allows an easier time setting up Calm Mind. Not advocating Mega Latios as a whole but it's still ranked (albeit C, which is kind of high lol but that's another argument), so it's not completely trash.

 

[Kurona]

Latios is admittedly better than it's mega most of the time, but its mega does have a very small niche in being able to OHKO 'tran after rocks 100% of the time:
0 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.3 - 105.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
while i probably won't recommend using Mega Latios just for that, it is usable.

If you really wanted to do that you still could with the slightest attack investment and hasty

24 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 338-400 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And you still hit harder with your remaining SpA investment than M-Latios with max SpA investment

232 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 273-321 (80 - 94.1%)
252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 247-292 (72.4 - 85.6%)

And even then EQ is generally used as a lure for Heatran more than anything; so you'd be able to KO with any move the next turn. Even then in a realistic battle situation, the chances of both not getting an OHKO after rocks with no attack investment (literally less than 15% chance) and the Heatran not having had any prior damage is abysmally low.

The real reason to use Mega Latios is for a slightly bulkier Latios when you have no Mega Slot. Admittedly extremely situational and I have no idea why it's as high as C on the VR but that's all it's good for.

 

[Karxrida]

Heatran also dies to Earthquake after a Draco, which is important in case it has a Balloon when it switched in.

 

[Karxrida]

I saw this on the Ladder a few times and saw it actually had 30% usage when I checked.

Don't use this

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake

Why not?
A WP set relies on a lot of prediction to get hit with a SE move AND live. In a Meta filled with Knock Off you essentially lose an item that could have been better off as something else. Also Weavile and faster Ice types.

Instead use this

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake

Why it's better?
It gives it an item that has use before activation and half the desired power WP gives. Also it'll actually have use instead of an item that may not even be used.

Mega Tyrant got to be more careful. Priority tho.

Weakness Policy is used on DD sets, which would rather have Lum Berry to negate burns and paralysis.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

I saw this on the Ladder a few times and saw it actually had 30% usage when I checked.

Don't use this

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Punch / Dragon Dance
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake

Why not?
A WP set relies on a lot of prediction to get hit with a SE move AND live. In a Meta filled with Knock Off you essentially lose an item that could have been better off as something else. Also Weavile and faster Ice types.

Instead use this

Dragonite @ Choice Band / Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Punch / Dragon Dance
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake

Why it's better?
It gives it an item that has use before activation and half the desired power WP gives. Also it'll actually have use instead of an item that may not even be used . If Dragon Dance is used Lum Berry curses status that may arise while boosting.

Mega Tyrant got to be more careful. Priority tho.

While it admittedly does require prediction sometimes, a lot of stuff commonly run SE moves against 'nite (e.g. necessary coverage or STAB) so it usually activates most matches. Also, people don't expect it.

 

[Karxrida]

While it admittedly does require prediction sometimes, a lot of stuff commonly run SE moves against 'nite (e.g. necessary coverage or STAB) so it usually activates most matches. Also, people don't expect it.

Good players will go with a neutral hit to break Multiscale before going for the kill. It's only consistent against bad players.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I actually didn't see DDance when I faced them ?_? Surprised DDance is actually still widely used while being outclassed.
Edited tho

How is Dragon Dance Dragonite outclassed? Between Lum Berry, Extreme Speed, not being a Mega, and Multiscale, Dragonite carves itself a justifiable niche as a Dragon Dance user. Weakness Policy is a viable option actually.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

There is still a don't use nidoking use landorus-I. Also I'm gonna vouch to remove the mega garchomp one since mega garchomp is viable and it doesn't need sand. It likes it but it's not needed. I mean both are good mixed wallbreakers but there is plenty of reasons to go mega chomp > kyurem black like ground stab, a better defensive typing and fire blast.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

lol lando is banned
also i think since lando is banned nido is viable.

That was my point. My point was to remove that one

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

That was my point. My point was to remove that one

sorry misread deleted the post