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Don't Use This, Use That

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by DittoCrow, May 19, 2013.

  1. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Don't Use This, Use That
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The purpose of this thread is to discuss common sets that are seen as overrated and suggest better alternatives. There are a lot of Pokemon and sets in the usage stats that are ineffective, and we should raise awareness that these sets are not optimal. Furthermore, there are a few Pokemon that don't even deserve to be in the tier because they simply do not work effectively. There are certain Pokemon being used on the ladder in a way that reduces their viability. For example, SubSeed Whimsicott is not effective in the metagame, though that doesn't mean Whimsicott is bad as a whole, as it does have viable support set that it can use, as it's one of the best sun setters in the tier thanks to Prankster. You can also suggest alternative Pokemon that outclass another in a certain role, such as suggesting Kabutops for Rapid Spinning instead of Hitmonchan. If you think a Pokemon or set is wrongfully being accused of being ineffective, you are encouraged to discuss why you think that way.

    *Please do not use this thread to bash Pokemon, try to educate the playerbase and teach them what not to use. Any offensive posts will be deleted/edited.

    Example Post (from the RU Hub):

    example (open)


    SubSeed:
    [​IMG]
    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Encore
    move 4: Taunt
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    Why it's bad:
    Whimsicott's poor reputation as a competitive Pokemon comes from this set. To put it bluntly, a moveset centered around priority Leech Seed is simply not effective in RU. Not only are there numerous Grass-type Pokemon that populate the tier, but Magic Guard Pokemon, such as Sigilyph and Clefable, also exist, and are similarly immune to Leech Seed. Moreover, Pokemon with the Sap Sipper ability, such as Bouffalant, Sawsbuck, and Miltank, can even get an Attack boost when switching in on Leech Seed. Ultimately, using Leech Seed and Substitute is a total waste of two moveslots; Whimsicott has better moves in its arsenal and should be putting them to use.

    Support:
    [​IMG]
    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Stun Spore
    move 2: U-turn / Memento
    move 3: Encore
    move 4: Giga Drain / Taunt / Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    Why it's better:
    Unlike the SubSeed set, Support Whimsicott can actually accomplish something with priority Stun Spore; paralyzing the opponent's Pokemon can open up the path for a teammate to sweep. This set has much more utility than the SubSeed set as well, acting as a pivot for offensive teams and providing setup opportunities for sweepers. U-turn provides momentum when used on switches that Encore can force. Encore can also create opportunities for setup sweepers, such as Gallade and Sigilyph; Memento does this as well, but Whimsicott must be sacrificed in the process. Taunt prevents opposing sweepers from setting up and hazards from going down, while shutting down Pokemon reliant on support moves such as Uxie and Smeargle. If running a sun team, Whimsicott can forgo Giga Drain or Stun Spore for priority Sunny Day. With sun up, Victreebel and Charizard become offensive juggernauts, having the ability to sweep your opponent's entire team, should they be unprepared. Do not waste any of Whimsicott's moveslots with Substitute and Leech Seed, it has a cornucopia of moves with far greater utility.


    Obviously, your post doesn't have to be that long, but please do try to explain your thoughts!

    Some things that we would like discussed to begin:

    • Dusknoir
    • Sandslash
    • Quagsire
    • Cosmic Power Sigilyph
    Feranfell, Molk, Raseri and 1 other person like this.
  2. Celever

    Celever

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    I will be honest here, I don't like seeing Quagsire there. If you would clarify on why Quagsire is there then it might make a little more sense, but I find him incredibly viable in RU. The main reason I can see is one of his arguments for being good being it can counter CP Sigilyph. On irc New breed pointed some stuff out: 00:05 NewBreed the only thing not making it completely outclassed by alo is unaware
    00:05 NewBreed and volt switch immunity

    Bit unfair in my opinion, but then molk pointed out:
    00:07 Molk quagsire is cuter
    00:07 Molk :>

    00:05 Molk oh newbreed remember the rock resist
    00:06 Molk which makes it better against CB aggron
    00:06 Molk who can actually 2HKO fish o_o

    Something I will put forward, though, is banded drapion.
    Drapion is not actually good as an offensive sweeper or wall breaker. The main thing it is good at is phazing in my opinion, due to great defensive typing and whirlwind. Basically, drapion is not meant to be used offensively, it can pursuit trap, sure, but even then the analysis is out-dated because absol has joined the tier since then.
    Banded drapion simply is not effective.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    I'm intrigued to see Cosmic Power Sigilyph and Quagsire in the OP. While the first two are generally what one thinks of when we think of the dregs of the tier, I for some reason never really considered the other two. But I agree, so I'll give my opinion on them.

    Quagsire is really, really poor in RU for a number of reasons. First and foremost is the huge competition it faces from Alomomola and Poliwrath. Alomomola can support the team far more effectively than Quagsire with its trademark Wish set, while Poliwrath is a better fit on stall teams since it can phaze the opponent, is considerably bulkier, and has in my opinion a better typing (Megahorn resist is extremely cool). It also counters Kabutops and Aggron just as well as or better than Quagsire. Now let's take a look at Quagsire itself, without considering the Pokemon that give it competition. Its niche lies in Unaware... but really, how many setup sweepers are there in RU? In my experience RU Pokemon tend to hit hard without requiring setup, and the ones that do, such as Kabutops, mainly use it to break through Ghost-types (and there are plenty of things that beat SD Kabutops without relying on Quagsire). Next we have the rather obvious problem of that quadruple Grass weakness, which sucks for a defensive Pokemon when Grass-types are so common (and you're even easily outsped my Tangrowth). So in my opinion if you're looking for a physically defensive Water-type in RU, one should use Alomomola or Poliwrath over Quagsire. Also keep in Mind that Seismitoad may not have Recover or Unaware, but like Quagsire it has Water Absorb, and unlike it, it has access to Stealth Rock, and possibly even bluff an offensive Swift wim set. Far higher Speed is also nice for a defensive Pokemon.

    Now for Sigilyph. This one is not as obviously bad as the other three, but I can certainly see why DittoCrow put it up there with the others. The Cosmic Power set is pretty hard to pull off, mainly because it's extremely crippled by moves such as Trick, Encore, and Taunt. Furthermore, it relies on burning the opponent to set up, which can be problematic considering the triumvirate of extremely powerful Fire-types that reside in the tier (Moltres, Entei, and to some extent Emboar, as the latter is usually Scarfed and has a weakness to Stored Power). Then there are the Dark-types that are outright immune to Stored Power, or that can evade a burn by virtue of Taunt, Rest, Substitute or a Lum Berry. CroTomb can set up on Sigilyph and drain it of its PP with Pressure, and even if Absol is burned it can deal some nasty damage simply due to its massive base Attack. Super Luck Night Slash also has a very good chance of bringing Sigilyph down before Absol succumbs to the burn damage. Then there are further niggles that need to be considered such as the fact that Psycho Shift misses 10% of the time and that Sigilyph needs a free turn to activate its Flame Orb. It's also horribly weak without multiple boosts. So I wouldn't really say to use something different over Cosmic Power Sigilyph, as nothing else really compares to it, so much as to say don't use something that it so unreliable, period.

    I'd really love to see some discusion on Drapion here, a Pokemon who I think is pretty terrible in the current metagame. Some reasons for it are: low base power STABs, and only slightly above average Attack, no reliable reocvery, not good enough resistances for a defensive Pokemon/not good enough offenses for an offensive Pokemon.
  4. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    [​IMG]
    Sandslash

    I find that a lot of players that use Sandslash are misusing it; it isn't that bad, but when it's used for something it's not meant to, then it's going to be bad.

    The two other spinners, Kabutops and Cryogonal are better than Sandslash 95% of the time, but there are cases where Sandslash is useful. Kabutops has more of a place on offensive teams, whereas Cryogonal has more of a place on more defensive teams--Cryogonal can also go on offensive teams too.

    Sandslash's niche is to be of a more laid back teammate. Its place on a team that needs its spinner to take a relatively strong hit when needed and still get the spin off (moreso physical attacks than special), and one that can act as a last resort to some physical sweepers at full health. Sandslash's Defense lets it take physical attacks from +1 Klinklang, Emboar, and Aerodactyl. Also, some teams don't need the compound Electric-type weakness from adding Kabutops, and another SR weakness from adding Cryogonal. Also, Sandslash is really cool thanks to its ability to come into Volt Switches and other Electric attacks, which means it can be a somewhat shaky check to Magneton or Galvantula.
  5. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    Well, since it's the only one not covered of the 4 DC put up, I guess I'll discuss Dusknoir a bit.

    Let's compare Dusknoir to the 2 other common Ghost-types of RU, Rotom and Spiritomb. Dusknoir has good looking stats alright, but it also has a ton of issues. It's defensive stats are better than that of Rotom and Spiritomb, but Spiritomb has a superior defensive typing (it has, uh, 0 type weaknesses) that gives it an extra immunity to Psychic, making it the premier Gallade counter in the tier. Rotom has a sub-Electric typing that allows it to better handle Flying-, Electric-, and Steel-type moves. Dusknoir has amazing 135 / 135 defenses, but a paltry base 45 HP and downright awful base 45 Speed. This means that it will likely get hit twice before it gets the chance to attack if it comes in to wall something. Sure, it has base 100 Attack, but it's not sweeping at all with base 45 Speed whereas Rotom has a very acceptable base 91 Speed stat to go along with a decent base 95 Special Attack stat to sweep with. That same base 91 Speed also lets Rotom spread burns much faster than Dusknoir could, making up for Rotom's much lower defenses by shielding itself from hits faster.

    Next, there's the versatility factor. Spiritomb is the most versatile of the 3 main Ghost-types in RU. It can hit from both ends of the spectrum (not at the same time mind you) and can go on the defensive. While Rotom won't be doing any physical attacking any time soon, it can run 3 very solid sets for varying playstyles. It can use SubSplit, Choice Scarf, and Bulky sets to nice success with proper team support depending on the set. Then there's Dusknoir. All it can really try to do is tank hits, but what does it bring to the table that Spiritomb and Rotom can't? More power? Sorry, Rotom has a much higher Speed stat and a marginally lower Special Attack stat. Dusknoir also can't straight up counter either of the top spinners with consistency. It hits from the physical side, but Cryogonal can just switch out of it for free and attempt to spin at another time whereas Spiritomb punishes it with Pursuit and even Rotom can use Will-O-Wisp before switching out. Why do some people run a more physical Defensive EV spread on Cryogonal? Oh yeah, Spiritomb. With Kabutops, Bulky Rotom performs brilliantly as it can take a +2 Waterfall and KO back with Thunderbolt. Spiritomb can burn Kabutops, but it can also take advantage of Weak Armor through a combination of Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. Spiritomb may go down in the process, but odds are, Kabutops will go down to LO recoil on the next attack if it makes it out with any HP left, thus rendering it unable to spin successfully. Dusknoir? Can only burn it which may stop Kabutops from sweeping, but Tops will still break past it and pull off a spin in most cases.

    The cold, hard truth is this. Dusknoir may have better defensive stats than Spiritomb and Rotom, but the other 2 have more versatility and can directly handle at least 1 of the 2 common spinners in RU.
  6. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    So just a nitpick but Cosmic Power Sigilyph was touched on before in that article. Link is here:
    http://www.smogon.com/tiers/ru/ru_sets2

    Basically Offensive Calm Mind > Cosmic Power because it is immediately an offensive threat, arguably greater overall after a couple Calm Minds, and it also has the freedom to run a coverage move like Heat Wave or Air Slash so stuff like CroTomb doesn't completely destroy it. Cosmic Power is also quite vulnerable to crits, Taunt, phazing, and Haze (since Cryogonal can carry it), while the Calm Mind set has much less of a problem with them. Was there anything else you had in mind for suggestions for this guy?

    Also, great idea, I read articles like the above and got kinda skeptical about how viable some on-site sets were (at least, they were on site at the time), so I'd love to see more bad sets that I might trick myself into using get weeded out.
  7. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Don't use that classic lead Aerodactyl set. This isn't DPP anymore, we have team preview, and that set is not what it used to be.

    Instead, use offensive Aero. 3 attacks + Roost, Choice Band, Taunt + Roost + EdgeQuake, whatever. Hell, slapping SR if you really need it on an LO set can still work. If your Aero is holding a Focus Sash, however, you're not using it as well as you could be.
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I agree Drapion is not a good Pokemon in the metagame, but finding a replacement is a bit difficult and I understand how people may struggle with finding one. If you look at the other 3 Pursuit users in the tier, you have Spiritomb, Escavalier, and Absol.

    Spiritiomb is probably the closest you can get to Drapion for its role, but it has two of the same problems as Drapion, having only 2 more points in Attack, having a super weak Ghost STAB, and getting worn down quickly. It is also slower and lacks Swords Dance. However, with a generally greater bulk, more versatility, and all the moves it has being priority moves are what makes it so useful, and the checking all the Psychic- and Ghost-types in the tier is equally good imo. Also, being straight up immune to Focus Blast and HP Fighting makes it reliable than being neutral to Fighting with a honestly pretty crappy special defense. Also, like Drapion, it serves as virtually a checkmate to Rotom.

    Escavalier isn't even a Dark-type, but it still is rocking a lot of similarities to Drapion. Mainly, it is a LOT more powerful than Drapion. For a random (Marowak) example for comparison.

    252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Megahorn vs 0 HP/0 Def Marowak: 117.24% - 138.31% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Drapion Crunch vs 0 HP/0 Def Marowak: 54.02% - 63.6% (2 hits to KO)

    That is less than half as powerful! While Escavalier lacks STAB on Pursuit, it still really hurts. Assuming they switch...

    252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier (+Atk) Pursuit vs 0 HP/0 Def Marowak: 52.11% - 61.69% (2 hits to KO)
    252 Atk Choice Band Drapion Pursuit vs 0 HP/0 Def Marowak: 54.02% - 63.6% (2 hits to KO)

    That's... nearly the same exact power despite lacking STAB. Plus, Megahorn threatens not only Psychics, but even Ghosts and pretty much everything else you could imagine. They aren't similar in the case of having Swords Dance, but Escavalier is a far more dangerous Pokemon despite having a really low speed.

    Finally, there is Absol. It packs a lot more power and also some weird moves such as Superpower, Thunderbolt, and Fire Blast mainly because Gamefreak likes to give everything to Absol if it doesn't involve punching or kicking, and it also has Swords Dance. Sucker Punch also allows it to treaten Pokemon outside of the Pokemon it hits super effectively, as a +2, or heck even a +0, Sucker Punch really hurts offensive Pokemon, while random special moves allow it to deal with physical walls such as Tangrowth - while Drapion has a STAB Poison Jab, running a Poison move can be kind of hard with its somewhat limited moveslots.

    And then, as for being a Swords Dance user, it just is a lot weaker than practically any other one in the tier. Its speed is decent, however, but not really "good enough." You could also just slap a Choice Band on a powerful Pokemon and hit nearly as hard as a +2 Drapion off the bat, just because the difference is that much. Specially Defensive has a niche I guess, but it honestly lacks the stats to set up on too many kinds of Pokemon.

    Basically, Drapion doesn't really have a blatant "use x over y," as it real problems come from those stats, but in the case of Drapion, these 3 alternatives to perform a chunk of Drapion's roles better should be considered, or if Drapion is used as a basic offensive Pokemon, pretty much anything hits harder either immediately or is a more powerful Swords Dance user. It is just... a lot weaker and only around as bulky than everything else. It still has its niches, mainly involving its speed stat combined with its other traits allowing it to do some things better than other Dark-types, however, so it isn't really a crutch in the tier... yet.
  9. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    I agree with DittoCrow and EonX- that Dusknoir is incredibly overrated, and doesn't deserve the usage it gets (even when it has like the second lowest weight out of any Pokemon in the tier it still has more than 7% usage, x_x). Now at first glance, some of you might think that the Dusknoir hate is unjustified purely because of its stats, but let me tell you know, those stats are deceptive, and Dusknoir isn't nearly as useful as they suggest. First off, 100 Attack may seem good, especially on something with that level up bulk, but Dusknoir actually struggles quite a bit offensively. All of its physical STAB attacks are very weak, with the strongest of which only reaching 60 BP, likewise, almost all of Dusknoir's coverage options have less than 80 Base Power, limiting its offensive potential even more. Combine this with the fact that Dusknoir sorely needs to invest in its defenses to perform well at all and you have a surprisingly weak Pokemon on your hands (for example, Dusknoir has trouble even breaking Sceptile's Substitute with Shadow Sneak). Dusknoir's bulk is somewhat deceptive as well, because while dual 135 defenses look really good on paper, Dusknoir's base 45 HP often holds it back in practice, especially when it has to rely on Pain Split for recovery, not even having the free moveslots to run Restalk like Spiritomb can. Speaking of Spiritomb, although its not as bulky as Dusknoir, its typing still makes it a better defensive Pokemon in my opinion, as Spiritomb has a handy immunity to Psychic-type attacks as well as a complete lack of type weaknesses, making it harder to take out in the long run.


    As for Pokemon to use instead of Dusknoir, i'd suggest trying out Spiritomb and Misdreavus. Spiritomb's secondary Dark-type gives it a complete lack of type weaknesses for the opponent to prey on, and it also gives Spiritomb an extra immunity to Psychic, making it a better check to things such as Uxie, Mesprit, and Sigilyph, especially with access to STAB Pursuit. Also, Spiritomb can use Foul Play effectively on its more defensive sets to deter powerful physical attackers, such as CB Entei from switching in on it, something Dusknoir sorely wishes it could do. On the other hand, Misdreavus has Eviolite to bolster its defensive stats to the levels of Dusknoir and Spiritomb (its physical bulk is about equivalent to Dusknoir without lefties factored in, and her special bulk is higher than both by a longshot), and possesses a handy immunity to Ground-type moves, as well as an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, which makes it harder to wear down compared to Dusknoir. Misdreavus also has multiple useful support options over Dusknoir, such as Perish Song, Heal Bell, and a faster Taunt. Lastly, Misdreavus actually hits harder than Dusknoir despite its lower Attack stat due to the higher base power of Shadow Ball, leaving Dusknoir in the Shadows. Bulky Rotom and Golurk are also options over Dusknoir as a Ghost-type, but i decided only to discuss tomb and Misdreavus here because they're the closest to Dusknoir in role.

    Some damage calcs (open)


    0 Atk Dusknoir Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sceptile: 61-73 (21.7 - 25.97%) -- possible 4HKO

    (lol)

    252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Dusknoir: 126-149 (42.85 - 50.68%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 142-168 (43.82 - 51.85%) -- 9.77% chance to 2HKO

    (as you can see, Dusknoir and Misdreavus are just about equal on the physical side, although Duskoir has Leftovers recovery which does give it an admitted advantage in some circumstances.)

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 246-291 (75.92 - 89.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Dusknoir: 247-292 (84.01 - 99.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (Misdreavus easily outbulks Dusknoir on the special side, as can be seen here)

    0 Atk Dusknoir Shadow Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 72-85 (20.33 - 24.01%) -- possible 6HKO

    0 SpA Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Druddigon: 84-99 (23.72 - 27.96%) -- possible 5HKO

    (Misdreavus hits harder than Dusknoir despite a lower special attack stat thanks to higher BP moves.)
  10. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    [​IMG]
    Galvantula@Choice Specs / Scarf
    Timid | Compound Eyes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Thunder
    -Volt Switch
    -Bug Buzz
    -Giga Drain

    I've noticed some players using a choiced Galvantula. I can understand why newer players would want Choice Specs--and Choice Scarf, I suppose--with an accurate 120 BP STAB to work with, and the power with Choice Specs makes it awesome right, or that power so it can revenge any threat with that sexy speed. The reason Galvantula doesn't as a Choice Specs or Scarf user is due to the Stealth Rock weakness, which, fellow Electric-type, Manectric has over Galvantula. Also, with hazards becoming increasingly popular and Pokemon like Druddigon, Entei, Amoonguss can take advantage of any resisted attack, so the ability to change attacks is highly needed. To help with this issue, the best set as of now is the Life Orb attack set, which is also used a lot among higher skilled players.

    [​IMG]
    Galvantula@Life Orb
    Timid | Compound Eyes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Thunder
    -Volt Switch
    -Giga Drain
    -Bug Buzz

    The biggest difference is the ability to change attacks, and a slight decrease in power compared to the Choice Specs version and the recoil from LO. This set works much better because Galvantula can switch in (not that easy given its frailty) and launch a Thunder and then switch with Volt Switch, or launch to Thunder and hit that Amoonguss with Bug Buzz, for example. This set is at hazards' mercy as the choice sets thanks to the ability to change attacks and pseduo-heal with Giga Drain.

    Hopefully, that cleared up why one is used over the other.
  11. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    [​IMG]

    Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Rock]

    I notice a lot of people run a Choice Scarf on Typhlosion. Typhlosion's former poor reputation in RU comes from this set. One may think that Typhlosion's absurd power STAB and good Special Attack and Speed make it a good revenge killer, right? Well, it's not. Why? Well, firstly, it's weak to hazards of all kinds, and it will usually get worn down really quickly by them. Typhlosion is also somewhat lacking in power, so resists such as Druddigon and Slowking can come in and not mind it. Priority exists, particularly from Absol and Entei, and Typhlosion is useless after it can't spam Scarf Eruption anymore, which is a large portion of the time. Typhlosion also can't do much to a lot of defensive teams, which is kinda bad. There's Choice Specs Typhlosion, which is another story.

    [​IMG]

    Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Rock]

    It's the same set, so what? Take out a Scarf and replace it with Specs, and Typhlosion's a whole different story now. Typhlosion makes a great wallbreaker, abusing his great Special Attack and absurd power Eruption to put massive dents in opposing teams. For the record, he 2HKO's Entei and Lanturn after SR! He has great power, and his Speed tier is already good enough to suffice, and it doesn't matter if you can't revenge kill Scolipede and Sceptile. He has a Blaze boosted Fire Blast to hit hard with if he gets worn down, with patches up the Eruption mechanics. With the power, you can see why Specs Typh is so much better than Scarf.

    This is overall another example of what's a good set and what's not.
  12. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Speaking of Choice Scarfed Fire-types....

    [​IMG]
    Magmortar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    I really don't understand what people see in Choice Scarf Magmortar to be honest, i've tried it many times before and its always happened to underperform for me, no matter how i played it and which team i was using it on. I guess it does look pretty great in theory, given Magmortar's great type coverage and the fact that Choice Scarf boosts Magmortar's somewhat underwhelming Speed, but the negatives far outweigh the positives imo. First and foremost, Magmortar has a weakness to Stealth Rock and takes full damage from the other hazards as well, limiting the amount of times it can actually switch in, which is always bad for a Choice Scarfed Pokemon, who tend to switch in and out often to change the move they're locked into. Speaking of changing moves, Choice Scarf Magmortar's inability to change moves is very unappealing to me to be honest. I feel that Magmortar performs best when it can switch moves freely, allowing it to utilize its type coverage and wallbreak the best it can (the fact that Choice Scarf doesn't give a good boost like Life Orb, Expert Belt, and even Choice Specs do is a big downfall to Choice Scarf Magmortar as well). All in all, i really think that Choice Scarf Magmortar is sort of a waste of potential, and i'd suggest you all to use this set instead! :).

    [​IMG]
    Magmortar @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid / Hasty Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice] / Earthquake

    All-Out-Attacker Magmortar is infinitely more effective than Choice Scarf Magmortar in my opinion. While it does sacrifice a lot of useful Speed, it makes Magmortar much more effective as a wallbreaker, something Magmortar is much better suited for in my opinion. All-Out-Attacker Magmortar's type coverage makes it quite excellent at breaking down RU's defensive cores, even being able to 2HKO premier bulky Water-type Slowking with a well placed Thunderbolt on the switch. Magmortar can break the majority of other Defensive Pokemon in the tier as well. Quagsire, Rhydon, and the rare Seismitoad desperately fear Hidden Power Grass, bulky Dragon-types such as Druddigon and Altaria can't take Hidden Power Ice, Lanturn and the occasional Flareon get destroyed by Earthquake, and bulky Normal-types such as Clefable, Audino, and Lickilicky get 2HKO'd by Focus Blast at worst. Pretty much every other defensive Pokemon in RU gets roasted by a Fire Blast off of a massive base 125 Special Attack. Remember, all of this is only possible because of the power boost provided by Expert Belt and Life Orb and wallbreaker Magmortar's ability to switch moves freely. That's much better than a silly old Scarf set, isn't it?

    Now, if you really need a Choice Scarfed Fire-type, i'd suggest trying out Choice Scarf Emboar instead. Its not as fast as Magmortar, but it still has enough Speed to get the job done. Plus, Emboar is neutral to Stealth Rock instead of being weak to it, meaning it has much more freedom in switching in and out when compared to Magmortar, and has more pure bulk as well, making it easier to switch in. Emboar can even take up Magmortar's role as a sleep absorber by running Sleep Talk in its final moveslot!

    So all in all, i really think Choice Scarf Magmortar is really overrated, and you should give out either Choice Scarf Emboar or a pure wallbreaker Magmortar out instead, i think you'll be presently surprised at how they do.

    (also, please never use Max Hp Magmortar, new players, i know its the suggested spread on Pokemon showdown, but trust me, maggy really needs the speed :/.)
  13. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    I could talk about Magmortar and Galvantula, but I'd rather elaborate more on Typhlosion.

    Typhlosion, when you think about it, is closer to a special version of Entei. Same Speed tier, comparable power levels, and generally the same issues (vulnerable to all types of entry hazards) The issue just stated is the main reason why Entei typically runs Choice Band. Scarf users that are weak to entry hazards are generally not efficient.
    Now, Typhlosion is quite possibly the most underrated Choice Specs user in the tier. It's easy to understand why since Slowking and Rotom-C are very good Specs users, but don't sleep on Specs Typhlosion. It may be weak to SR, but it has everything covered in 3 moveslots. A powerful, reliable STAB move (Fire Blast) a power coverage move (Focus Blast) and a choice coverage move (HP Rock or HP Grass depending on support provided) This is why it can slap such a quirky move lik Eruption with few drawbacks. Most times, it's a one-off power move, but that's typically all it needs to cripple a check or counter for later. Typhlosion is good, but Specs is much better than Scarf on it... Much like Band is much better than Scarf on Entei.
  14. Celever

    Celever

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    I've used both and prefer choiced galvantula. Just saying. I actually preferred expert belt Galvantula over Life orb, since it has a stealth rock weakness, it doesn't want even more residual damage. It can only heal with giga drain - hardly reliable, so the life orb set is rather lackluster in my opinion.
  15. Magolor

    Magolor

    Joined:
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    Don't use:

    [​IMG]
    Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Hitmonchan seems appealing as a rapid spinner due to his access to foresight, letting him spin ghosts. However, when compare him to the other spinners it is clear that Hitmonchan is lacking. Bad base 50 HP, no Swords Dance to serve a secondary purpose as a sweeper, no way to actually do anything good to ghosts and lack of support moves aside from the aforementioned Rapid Spin mean that pretty much every spinner (Yes, even Sandslash.) outclasses him.

    Use this:

    [​IMG]

    Kabutops @ Life Orb
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin

    Kabutops is everything Hitmonchan wants to be and more. Tops is more powerful, slightly faster (A lot faster with Weak armour) and has room for a priority move. Kabutops also acts as a check to many ice and fire type pokemon. He even has a 4X resistance to fire, meaning that it can even threaten the mighty Moltres (Lacking HP Grass, of course.) Also, Kabutops can OHKO the standard trapper Spritomb with a +2 Stone Edge and also OHKO Bulky Rotom-A, meaning that spinblocking it is harder than spinblocking Hitmonchan.
  16. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Please Don't Use This (the fact that this actually gets usage disappoints me :( ):

    [​IMG]
    Archeops @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Defeatist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Pluck
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn

    I kinda dislike using Archeops in general because i really hate defeatist and the inability to hold a boosting item without weakening Acrobatics, but i can see why its a legitimate mon and why other players have success with it, Choice Scarf Archeops is just crossing the line for me though :/. 140 Attack, 110 Speed, and good coverage might make scarfcheops seem appealing at first, but trust me, it isnt an effective set at all and actually (imo) makes its weak points that much more prominent. First off, as has been mentioned several times with other Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Galvantula, having a weakness to Stealth Rock on a Pokemon that will be switching in and out quite often is pretty bad, and its even worse on Scarf archeops because of defeatist, which pretty much makes it dead weight after a few switchins. It doesn't reallt help that Archeops can't abuse U-turn as well because of its SR weakness and defeatist as well. Secondly, holding a Choice Scarf dramatically weakens Archeop's Flying STAB, as Acrobatics only has the 110 Bp its known for when the user is holding no item or a Flying Gem, leaving Arch's best options for STAB as things like Aerial Ace and Pluck, which is very, very undesirable. Lastly, Archeops is even more vulnerable to priority such as Aqua Jet and Extremespeed than other frail scarf users because of the aforementioned Defeatist, meaning that even if the priority doesn't immediately KO archeops, it'll make it pretty much dead weight for the rest of the match. Please don't use this set, seriously, dont do it man ;-;.


    Instead, use this

    [​IMG]
    Archeops @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Defeatist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Stone Edge
    - Earth Power
    - U-turn / Head Smash / Roost / Heat Wave

    This set is your best way to make the most out of Archeops imo, and i honestly wouldn't try to use any other set, its really not worth it to me. Anyways, Flying Gem Archeops is a classic, pair it up with a Rapid Spinner so it doesn't get worn down by Stealth Rock, use that great Flying Gem Acrobatics to do major damage to the opponent right off the bat, then run through the opponent with your exceptional offensive stats, Speed, and coverage, possibly using a Healing Wish Pokemon to give you a second chance in a pinch. Switching moves is especially great for Archeops, as being able to freely switch what kind of coverage you're using makes it harder for the opponent to force you out, and thus makes you less vulnerable to being worn down by Stealth Rock into Defeatist range by repeated switching. Overall, i personally like this set a lot better than Scarf Archeops for sure, and i think you will too, there are certainly much better options for revenge killers, and 110 Speed with a Choice Scarf is usually overkill regardless.
  17. Last Chance Breaker

    Last Chance Breaker

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    tbh I never found any reason to use scarf on Arch at all in the first place. Everyone I faced that did use it lost cos they couldn't get the vital switch-ins needed. I always found Acrobatics to be the only logical set to use. Although I despise head smash. After just one smash, it will realistically be at around half or lower health. And any SR damage doesn't help on top of that. Really, it will be using two attacks at most. One Arcobatics, and one Head smash. After that it becomes set up fodder. I prefer U-turn to escape faster, scarfed opponents on the switch. Mixed set is obliviously viable, but did you mean to put earth power instead of Earthquake?

    On Malogor's post, i don't fully agree. Hitmonchan has a very decent defense stat to take lighter hits in place for it's terrible HP. Some powerful priority and good coverage also helps out there. Although it is a shame it doesn't get the appropriate swords dance. Foresight doesn't actually see as much use as I thought it would. instead i often see some sort of coverage move to fit in. I do agree on Kab being better on a whole, but it does pack a fair few more weakness, including a crippling 4x to grass.
  18. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    If I'm not mistaken, Archeop's Head Smash is either used to bash the living shit out of something (Bouffalant? Uxie?) if no Flying Gem or to serve as pseudo-"Rock Slide" after Defeatist is activated.
  19. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    thread is somewhat active again so i might as well :)


    Dont Use This

    [​IMG]
    Aggron @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Head Smash
    - Thunder Wave
    - Metal Burst

    Man, i can't even count the amount of times i've seen newer players on the ladder using this set or something similar to it :/, its really disappointing tbh. Anyways, Stealth Rock Aggron isn't a very good choice in this metagame imo. While 180 Defense, Sturdy and a Steel-type might seem appealing at first, Aggron is usually much better off using an offensive set in practice. Firstly, running Sturdy on Aggron means it loses one of its best attributes: its completely drawbackless STAB Head Smash. Without Rock Head, whenever Aggron uses Head Smash, it does 1/2 recoil, severely decreasing Aggron's longetivity in the long run even though its quite bulky. Also, Metal Burst is a quite unreliable move, of course it can get a surprise KO once in a while, but if i see that my opponent's Aggron is Sturdy Stealth Rock, i'll try as hard as possible to break Sturdy with a weaker move before attempting to prey on its 4x weaknesses, reducing the effectiveness of Metal Burst. Furthermore, Head Smash's recoil also breaks its Sturdy! which is quite counterproductive when you're aiming to survive a hit with Sturdy and counter back. Lastly, there are really simply better options out there for a Stealth Rock setter. If you need a bulky Stealth Rock setter with a decent amount of power to back it up as well, try Steelix, Golurk, Druddigon, or Rhydon before support Aggron.

    Instead, Use This

    [​IMG]
    Aggron @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Head Smash
    - Heavy Slam
    - Fire Punch
    - Low Kick

    Choice Band Aggron is one of the best wallbreakers in the entire tier, and its not hard to see why. When using Rock Head to soften recoil, Aggron's Choice Band Head Smash is a force to be reckoned with, reaching an absolutely massive 225 BP with STAB included with absolutely no drawbacks bar the occasional miss. Aggron's Head Smash is so strong in fact, that it can cleanly 2HKO Tangrowth and Alomomola, and even does 40%+ to Pokemon that resist it such as Poliwrath, now thats impressive! Heavy Slam is a great secondary STAB for Aggron to have, often reaching maximum or near max Base Power due to Aggron's massive weight. Its capable of 2HKOing many of the things that resist Aggron's Head Smash, and it also comes in handy when the dinosaur doesn't want to risk a miss on a crucial turn. Fire Punch and Low Kick cover many of the things that the rest of Aggron's moves dont, covering Ferroseed and Steelix for example, only leaving a few things able to take a hit from Aggron. Of course, this set doesn't carry Stealth Rock, but the sheer payoff from running Choice Band Aggron is totally worth using another teamslot for Stealth Rock imo. As previously mentioned, there are plenty of options for Stealth Rock setters that are significantly better than support Aggron.
  20. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Please don't use this as a lead. This set is a complete waste of a team slot and Aerodactyl's potential. This set is really too weak and too limited to be much of a threat. Almost every common Pokemon found in the lead slot beats this set without a sweat. All that Aerodactyl really accomplishes is setting up Stealth Rock, which could be done by another Pokemon with more utility such as Uxie or Smeargle. Taunt is really ineffective because Aerodactyl will usually be 2HKOed by anything that leads off against it, and again, Earthquake / Stone Edge is too weak on this set to do any serious damage. Offensive sets are a much better option, and an alternative lead Pokemon should also be considered instead of lead Aerodactyl.
    Alfalfa likes this.
  21. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Don't Use This:

    [​IMG]Absol @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Pursuit
    - Night Slash
    - Superpower
    - Megahorn

    Why It is Bad:
    Except for Jynx because she gets Lovely Kiss and is faster, no psychic type or ghost will have the balls to stay in on absol because they are either slower, or can't afford the risk of being sniped by Sucker Punch. The lack of a power boost also hurts Absol a bit, as its STAB moves have a relatively low BP and therefore it often missed out on important KOs without an item boost , and to make it worse it can't even ohko a healthy slowking while switching out who should be your main target to hit with pursuit, given how good it is in the meta. Lastly, Choice Scarf Absol loses the utlity of Sucker Punch, and while it has some more initial Speed to make up for it, Scarf Absol simply can't revenge kill faster/boosted threats any other varient of Absol can. Also, Choiced Sucker Punch is a terrible idea, and can be taken advantage of really easily even if you opt to run sucker punch somewhere on scarfsol.

    TL;DR All of these moves are terrible to be locked into because they are unstabbed, are situational, or have low bp(its stab moves). And except for Jynx, you don't really need the scarf to pursuit trap most of its targets.

    Slowking Calc:
    252+ Atk Absol Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 294-348 (74.8 - 88.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Instead, Use This:


    [​IMG]Absol @ Life Orb/Blackglasses
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk or 4 whatever when using Adamant/ 252 Spd
    Naughty / Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Night Slash
    - Fire Blast / Pursuit

    Why Its Better:
    Sucker Punch basically wrecks most offensive mons that dont invest in bulk, resist the move or have faster priority, which means Absol doesn't need a Choice Scarf to revenge kill. Night Slash helps with mons trying to avoid your sucker punches and gives Absol a move to deal with mons slower than it that don't have priority. Fire Blast is manly and kills those potentially annoying Steelix, Tangrowth, Escavalier, Ferroseed, and Durant trying to set up on you if you dont need the pursuit support. Slowking is basically fucked because the dark moves ohko it, and because let's be honest, this, Uxie who is slower most of the time, and ghost types not named Rotom are what you want to trap in the first place.This is not Tyranitar, Scizor, or Spiritomb who have actual bulk to make up for their low speed and Pursuit trap faster foes. This Absol isn't Choice Locked either, meaning it can switch moves freely and doesn't have to deal with being locked into unfavorable moves at the wrong time.
    Black Glasses>Dread plate because it sounds cooler.

    TL;DR: All out Absol can deal with more shit and will be more useful than a situational fast pursuit 9.9 times out of 10. If you are using Fire Blast, it clears the way for things like Feraligatr, Kabutops, Lilligant(if not running hp fire), Druddigon, and Aggron. Pursuit is pursuit and will eliminate what you need whether you have the extra speed or not. All of this without losing its potential to revenge kill most attackers with the strongest priority move in the game.
  22. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Agreeing that Scarf Absol is a pretty bad set and really shouldn't be getting much, if any use. The extra Speed might look nice on paper, but as trop said many of the Pokemon Absol is aiming to trap (including the most important one) are slower regardless, and even the ones that aren't are forced into a 50/50 at worst against the all out attacker set. Scarf Absol doesn't even have the advantage of revenge killing over all out absol, and is in some cases actually worse at it because of its inability to effectively use Sucker Punch. Please, if you're considering Absol, just use All-Out-Attacker, the extra Speed simply isn't worth it.

    Anyways, going to post two Pokemon/sets that shouldn't be used that i see often on the ladder for some reason, and some better alternatives.

    Don't use this:

    [​IMG]
    Durant @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Iron Head
    - X-Scissor
    - Stone Edge

    Why Its Bad:

    I think it's pretty easy to see why you shouldn't use Stone Edge Durant to be honest, which is what makes the fact that its found on 41% of all durant used this month all the more baffling. Hitting Moltres: who resists Durant's STABs and Superpower might seem nice at first, but then you realize that you're using Stone Edge: an already inaccurate move, on a Pokemon with Hustle: an ability that lowers accuracy further in exchange for some power. Chances are, unless you have a Hone Claws under your belt Durant's Stone Edge won't even hit its target regardless, having even less accuracy than Focus Blast. Rock Slide and Superpower already KO the Pokemon you'd probably be aiming Stone Edge at regardless, while not having already terrible accuracy on a Pokemon with Hustle. Also, Thunder Fang could even be used to take care of Moltres while hitting Qwilfish and Poliwrath too.

    Instead, use this:



    [​IMG]
    Durant @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - X-Scissor / Thunder Fang / Rock Slide
    - Iron Head / Thunder Fang / Rock Slide
    - Superpower

    Why its better:

    This is by far Hone Claws Durant's best combination of moves imo, and i'd always consider this before using Stone Edge on Durant. X-Scissor, Iron Head, and Superpower cover the vast majority of RU threats barring a few outliers like Moltres and Qwilfish (although Moltres can be KO'd by a +1 Iron Head after Stealth Rock), and most if not all of the threats dual STAB+superpower can't cover can be covered up by using Thunder Fang over either STAB. Of course you need to choose which STAB to use Thunder Fang over carefully, as it can leave Durant open to other Pokemon if you don't choose wisely. But even these small coverage gaps are much, much, much better than resorting to Stone Edge. Which as i've said before doesn't even have a 70% chance to actually hit its target with hustle factored in.
  23. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    Going to take a different spin (pun sort of intended) on Hitmonchan (Magolor did a Rapid Spin comparison a few posts above me, but I'm going to do a straight set comparison)

    Don't Use This:

    [​IMG]

    Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Why its bad:

    Foresight+Rapid Spin looks great on paper, but the simple truth of the matter is that Hitmonchan has low HP, no way to directly harm Ghost-types before Foresight, and no useful support moves outside of Rapid Spin. If you want to use Hitmonchan as a Rapid Spinner, you're using it for the wrong reasons. So...

    Instead, Use This:

    [​IMG]

    Hitmonchan (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Drain Punch / Close Combat
    - ThunderPunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Mach Punch

    Why its better:


    Hitmonchan may not seem like the best Fighting-type to use offensively with Gallade, Medicham, and Hariyama all littering RU, but Hitmonchan does have Iron Fist and physical BoltBeam coverage to utilize. Thanks to Iron Fist, all of Hitmonchan's moves on this set are boosted by 20%, (bar the possible use of Close Combat) thus making up for its lower power. Hitmonchan's STAB moves give great utility. Drain Punch provides Hitmonchan with the ability to heal off LO recoil and various forms of passive damage while Mach Punch lets it be a decent revenge killer. Drain Punch can be replaced by Close Combat if the extra power is desired, but Drain Punch will usually be good enough to get the job done. ThunderPunch and Ice Punch give Hitmonchan physical BoltBeam coverage to utilize alongside its Fighting STABs. This lets Hitmonchan deal serious damage to threats such as Poliwrath, Druddigon, Slowking, and Amoonguss. LO Hitmonchan can perform as a solid wallbreaker while keeping faster Pokemon at bay whereas Rapid Spin Hitmonchan almost never performs the job it's designed to do in the first place. If you really want to use Hitmonchan, use the LO set.
  24. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    Don't use this pls
    While watching molk ladder with CREATIVITY, i saw this set(and way more often than what you might think):
    [​IMG]Accelgor @ Bug Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Bug Buzz
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Focus Blast
    - Giga Drain

    Why Its Bad:
    Except for the Rotoms and Manectric, Accelgor already outspeeds all of the good scarf mons, making a pseudo +2 speed pointless. Unburden on a Pokemon with base 145 Speed is complete overkill. The only reason Unburden Sceptile works is because he is a common benchmark to outspeed with scarf see: Scarf Emboar ,and because it actually beats 2 of its best checks (Roselia and Amoonguss) with Acrobatics. Bug Gem Accelgor does no such thing. Furthermore, Accelgor really needs the Life Orb boost to perform at its best, only sitting at base 100 Special Attack and having no way to boost that with a somewhat weak STAB move. After the first Bug Buzz, Accelgor will probably simply fail to OHKO something and be KO'd in return. This set would be fine if you could baton pass the unburden speed boost, sadly you can't baton pass that because it is not a real stat boost.



    [​IMG]Accelgor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Bug Buzz
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Focus Blast
    - Giga Drain

    Why its Better:
    Life Orb is an all around better option on Accelgor. It gives you a consistent power boost in exchange for some longevity, which Accelgor doesn't have much of in the first place. For the most part, the Unburden pseudo Speed boost is irrelevant, so LO Accelgor isn't missing out on much. It already outspeeds pretty much everything except for 3-4 viable scarf mons (all of them beat Accelgor anyway).
  25. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Don't Use This

    [​IMG]

    Hitmonlee (M) @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Why it's bad:

    Hitmonlee has some issues with being helpless against Pokemon such as Uxie and Spiritomb. Fake Out pretty much makes sure you have to activate Unburden on the first turn, which means you can often get forced out pretty easily. Fake Out invites stuff like Spiritomb and Mesprit in for literally free, whereas you can just come in and keep it helpless, and if you switch out, you have no chance at going at a sweep again. Fake Out is also far too weak and there are other stuff to be doing, This also means you can't fire hard powered Hi Jump Kicks on the first turn.

    Instead, use this

    [​IMG]

    Hitmonlee (M) @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick / Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Mach Punch

    Why it's better:

    Hitmonlee would like his Speed boosted by firing a mega powered Hi Jump Kick, and with Pursuit support, Hitmonlee can get a free kill, and from there it's in a sweeping condition. It can also use Mach Punch as priority to pick off Cinccino and weakened Sceptile to grab its boost, unlike the pathetic Fake Out. It also has Stone Edge and Earthquake for Moltres and Qwilfish respectively, which is also pretty cool. This is vastly superior to the Normal Gem+Fake Out shitty set, please use this instead.

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