Resource DOU Roles Compendium

talkingtree

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#1
Approved by kamikaze | Art made by GenOne | OP modified from XY Doubles OU Roles Compendium, made by talkingtree
This compendium contains basic roles that should be fulfilled by any competitive Doubles OU Team, as well as a few that are more team-specific. Under each role will be an array of Pokemon that could satisfy it, sorted into solid and shaky performers of the listed role. In the case that a role is split into sub-roles, the solid vs shaky categories will refer to how well the given Pokemon performs the larger role - not the sub-role. If there is a Pokemon that is not listed in a role it should be or vice versa, make a post about it and this post may be edited to fit your recommendation. Although the lists will roughly be in viability order, this is not the place for discussion on each individual Pokemon's viability - that belongs in either the General Discussion Thread or the Viability Rankings Thread. Exceptions can, however, be made for the case where you believe a Pokemon is listed in the incorrect category. Having this visual cue will hopefully aid people in building better and also more diverse teams, and allow anyone to find that one last filler they need for a team.

Only Pokemon found on the Viability Rankings Thread will be included in this list - although Skarmory could check Landorus-T and Tapu Lele, it is otherwise not viable and so should not be used to fulfill those roles.


Crucial Roles
At least one Pokemon from each of these should be on each Doubles OU team in order to have a decent chance of winning against any playstyle. If a team contains no Pokemon from the "Solid" section, the team is likely weak to the specified threat. However, these roles are more a guide than an overarching framework - there are still many ways to fulfill all these roles that would result in a bad or unbalanced team.

Landorus-T Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Tapu Fini Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Mega Salamence Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Snorlax Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Hoopa-U Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Tapu Lele Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Marshadow Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Tapu Koko Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Steel Checks
Aegislash: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Celesteela: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Ferrothorn: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Heatran: (Solid)
(Shaky)


Rain Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Sun Checks
Solid:

Shaky:


Trick Room Checks
Taunt: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Fake Out: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Strong Dark- or Ghost-type: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Strong Priority/Slow Attacker: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Reset Trick Room: (Solid)

Misc: (Solid)


Speed Control Users
Icy Wind: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Tailwind: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Trick Room: (Solid)
(Shaky)


Revenge Killers
Priority Attackers: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Choice Scarf Users: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Really Fast Pokemon: (Solid)
(Shaky)



Nonessential / Team-Specific Roles
These categories contain some of the roles you may be looking to assign, but that do not need to be on every team. This could either be due to the roles being playstyle-specific or simply because teams are able to function fairly well without the listed type of team member.

Spread Attackers
Solid:

Shaky:


Redirection Support
Solid:
Shaky:


Trick Room Attackers
Solid:

Shaky:


Setup Attackers
Solid:

Shaky:


Weather Setters / Attackers
Rain: (Solid)
(Shaky)
Sand: (Solid)

Sun: (Solid)
(Shaky)
Hail: (Solid)


Terrain Setters / Beneficiaries
Psychic: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Electric: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Grassy: (Solid)
(Shaky)

Misty: (Solid)
(Shaky)


~~~

Z-Move Users
The below Pokemon are common suitable users of Z-Moves, of which only one is allowed per team. While a builder should always take advantage of their access to Z-Moves, like Mega Evolutions they are not technically required and so Z-Move Users does not constitute a role. Hopefully these can give you some ideas of what has been shown to work and stimulate your creativity.

Firium Z:
(Inferno Overdrive)

Fightinium Z:
(All-Out Pummeling)

Groundium Z:
(Tectonic Rage)

Rockium Z:
(Continental Crush)

Electrium Z:
(Gigavolt Havoc)

Grassium Z:
(Bloom Doom)

Waterium Z:
(Hydro Vortex)

Psychium Z:
(Shattered Psyche)
(Z-Trick Room)

Ghostium Z:
(Never-Ending Nightmare)

Darkium Z:
(Black Hole Eclipse)

Normalium Z:
(Z-Nature Power)
(Z-Transform)

Steelium Z:
(Corkscrew Crash)

Marshadium Z:
(Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike)
 
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#2
There should be a Z-move Users section, and it should generally be sorted by Z-move attackers (solid and shaky) and z-move supporters (things like how Bronzong uses Z-Trick room)

Also Clefairy should be under "shaky redirection support"
 
#4
Based on what I had seen or have heard, and based on the format Tymano had suggest, I nominate the following mons to be placed as shown below. I had put some mons on "Shaky" because they're either rarely seen with a Z-item or better off letting another teammate use a Z-move instead. And this presentation looks nice imo.

Z-moves Users

Firium Z:
(Inferno Overdrive ~ Solid)
(Inferno Overdrive ~ Shaky)

Groundium Z:
(Tectonic Rage ~ Solid)

Rockium Z:
(Continental Crush ~ Solid)
Electrium Z:
(Gigavolt Havoc ~ Shaky)
Grassium Z:
(Bloom Doom ~ Solid)
(Bloom Doom ~ Shaky)

Waterium Z:
(Hydro Vortex ~ Solid)
(Hydro Vortex ~ Shaky)
Icium Z:
(Z-Haze ~ Shaky)
Psychium Z:
(Shattered Psyche ~ Solid)
(Z-Trick Room ~ Solid)

Ghostium Z:
(Never-Ending Nightmare ~ Solid)
Darkium Z:
(Black Hole Eclipse ~ Shaky)
Fightium Z:
(All-Out Pummeling ~ Solid) I have bais here.
Normalium Z:
(Z-Belly Drum ~ Shaky)
 
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talkingtree

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#5
I'm too lazy to actually quote each of your posts but:

Clefairy won't be added until it gets ranked, but if it does I'll definitely put it there.

Thanks so much GenOne! Let me know if you have any questions or ideas you wanna run by me.

I really like the look of that Test Bot, thanks! Only changes I'd make would be to remove Talon because it's not on the VR and add a few more (Icium Z Haze Milotic, Gigavolt Havoc Tapu Koko, Inferno Overdrive Rotom-H, and maybe Tectonic Rage Excadrill), theoretically I could also add Z-Ally Switch Hoopa-U, Z-Refresh Jirachi, and a couple others, but then we're venturing into theorymon so I'll leave them out for now.

I'm leaning towards putting Z-Move Users at the bottom, but let me know if you think it should go under required roles. It's sort of like having a mega where you're handicapping yourself if you don't use one, but as a "role" it doesn't really fit in with the rest.
 
#6
Maybe z moves warrant a standalone compendium? It might not be immediately obvious (especially to newer players) that a roles compendium houses info on viable z move users. Also, whereas the rest of the categories on this page help you achieve good team synergy at a glance, the z moves piece is really more about making good use of an individual mon.

That said, wherever it ends up I think it's a great idea to have z move info
 
#7
So it has been a week and nobody's really talked about the roles themselves yet, so here are my thoughts:
  • Celesteela -> Solid Lando-T Check
    Celes commonly packs Wide Guard which Lando-T hates, and there's really nothing Lando-T can do back to Celes. There's also the less-common special attacker set that packs HP Ice

  • Aegislash -> Shakey Lando-T Check
    Wide Guard support is something Lando-T hates, but of course Z Groundium is a thing now. That said, I'm starting to see more Aegis packing Shuca + HP Ice, and that does a pretty good job of sniping out Landos. So Aegi is a shakey check at worst imo.

  • Kangaskhan -> Shaky Rain Check
    I want to preface this by saying there might be a good reason it's currently in "Solid," and I might just not understand why. But, from what I'm seeing right now, Kang basically offers a Turn 1 momentum grab with Fake Out, and/or is bulky to live a rain sweeper's attack and retaliate. That's a slight advantage but idk if it's really a full-out rain check?

  • Araquanid -> Shaky Rain Check
    Big Spider is one of my favourite low-tier mons, but imo there's limits to how well it can check rain. It has a decent matchup against Ludicolo, but doesn't really do much to hamper Kingdra or either rain setter. Araq blocks Kingdra's Muddy Waters with Wide Guard, but offensively it does as little to Kingdra as Kingdra does to it, and Kingdra's partner can simply outspeed and snipe out Araq. Araq also isn't doing much to Politoed, and Pelipper can straight up win against Araq if it's packing Hurricane. Of course, if you can get Trick Room up, Araq hits like a truck inside of rain so that's a bonus.

  • Aegislash -> Shaky Trick Room Check (Strong Ghost Type as well as Sub Steel)
    The three most threatening/relevant TR setters right now are Jirachi, Hoopa-U and (imo) Bronzong. While Aegi handily shuts down rachi and zonger given the right plays, it pretty much clicks X against Hoopa-U. Substitute also isn't helping its Hoopa-U matchup whatsoever.

  • Metagross-Mega -> Not a Trick Room Check
    It's listed as a shakey subtitute Steel-type right now, but it loses to all three of the relevant TR setters even after it subs. Jirachi just clicks Follow Me and megagross becomes dead weight. Hoopa-U just says "kek" to the sub. Zonger just has to wait for its partner to break the sub, then it's gn Metagross but ig Zonger struggles more with Meta than rachi or Hoopa.

  • Bronzong -> Shakey Trick Room Check/Not a Check (Reset Trick Room)
    If you're running Zongroom, you want Trick Room up. Zonger already underspeeds pretty much every relevant Trick Room attacker and can just sleep them.

  • Thundurus-I -> Shakey Speed Control User
    Lele shuts down Prankster, and Fini shuts down Paralysis. The mons that thundy can paralyze regardless of terrain (Salamence, Charizard, etc.) are mons that it wins against offensively anyways.

  • Milotic -> Not a Spread Attacker
    Icy Wind is technically a spread move, but outside of bypassing Jirachi to hit Salamence or Zygarde, when would you ever click Icy Wind for the damage output?

  • Tyranitar -> Solid Spread Attacker
    It learns Rock Slide and gets STAB on it.

  • Tyranitar -> Shakey Trick Room Attacker
    While TTar loses to some dedicated Trick Room attackers like Bulu, Araquanid, etc., its low speed is definately usable in a full-room team.

  • Charizard-Mega Y -> Shakey Trick Room Attacker
    TTar exists and is becoming popular.

  • Necrozma -> Shakey Setup Attacker
    Why is this thing even still on the VR lol. But seriously, without Evoboost in the picture this thing takes forever to set up and I've never seen it sweep a game since Evoboost was banned.

  • Terrain Setters/Beneficiaries (general comment)
    Is running a Terrain really an "optional" role in this meta?? The vast majority of successful teams run a Tapu just to ensure that they're in control of the battlefield and, while there are a few exceptions, running terrain is pretty much mandatory unless you have a specific reason not to. The Beneficiaries are optional though. I know that having setters up top, then beneficiaries down below isn't exactly ideal...but really that's where the meta's at right now imo.
 
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Pocket

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#8
With Hoopa-U being the most common TR setter and Hyperspace Fury blowing past Substitute, I would probably remove Substitute users altogether, unless they resist Hoopa-U's moves (ie Sub CM Sylveon).
 

talkingtree

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#9
So there's a lot of good things in here and I want to respond to everything / get some elaboration if possible, sorry this took so long :/ Responses in green
  • Celesteela -> Solid Lando-T Check
    Celes commonly packs Wide Guard which Lando-T hates, and there's really nothing Lando-T can do back to Celes. There's also the less-common special attacker set that packs HP Ice Yes

  • Aegislash -> Shaky Lando-T Check
    Wide Guard support is something Lando-T hates, but of course Z Groundium is a thing now. That said, I'm starting to see more Aegis packing Shuca + HP Ice, and that does a pretty good job of sniping out Landos. So Aegi is a shaky check at worst imo. While WG is helpful, Aegis doesn't really do that much to check Lando-T and I've never seen Shuca + HP Ice. More this generation than last, Lando-T has ways to get around it in Tectonic Rage and Earth Power, or even the somewhat rare Knock Off since Superpower isn't quite as prevalent. Leaving this off for now unless someone else fights for it.

  • Kangaskhan -> Shaky Rain Check
    I want to preface this by saying there might be a good reason it's currently in "Solid," and I might just not understand why. But, from what I'm seeing right now, Kang basically offers a Turn 1 momentum grab with Fake Out, and/or is bulky to live a rain sweeper's attack and retaliate. That's a slight advantage but idk if it's really a full-out rain check? This should have been Shaky from the beginning, that was either a typo or I'm just dumb. Thanks for the catch

  • Araquanid -> Shaky Rain Check
    Big Spider is one of my favourite low-tier mons, but imo there's limits to how well it can check rain. It has a decent matchup against Ludicolo, but doesn't really do much to hamper Kingdra or either rain setter. Araq blocks Kingdra's Muddy Waters with Wide Guard, but offensively it does as little to Kingdra as Kingdra does to it, and Kingdra's partner can simply outspeed and snipe out Araq. Araq also isn't doing much to Politoed, and Pelipper can straight up win against Araq if it's packing Hurricane. Of course, if you can get Trick Room up, Araq hits like a truck inside of rain so that's a bonus. Sure, all good points

  • Aegislash -> Shaky Trick Room Check (Strong Ghost Type as well as Sub Steel)
    The three most threatening/relevant TR setters right now are Jirachi, Hoopa-U and (imo) Bronzong. While Aegi handily shuts down rachi and zonger given the right plays, it pretty much clicks X against Hoopa-U. Substitute also isn't helping its Hoopa-U matchup whatsoever. You and Pocket make good points about Sub Steel, I was just being lazy and carrying over the same sub-roles as last gen. Will be removed from there, and the fact that it only really beats Jirachi/Bronzong (Oranguru and Porygon2 should carry Foul Play more often than they probably do right now) means I'm cool with taking it to shaky on Ghost-type attackers

  • Metagross-Mega -> Not a Trick Room Check
    It's listed as a shakey subtitute Steel-type right now, but it loses to all three of the relevant TR setters even after it subs. Jirachi just clicks Follow Me and megagross becomes dead weight. Hoopa-U just says "kek" to the sub. Zonger just has to wait for its partner to break the sub, then it's gn Metagross but ig Zonger struggles more with Meta than rachi or Hoopa. Done

  • Bronzong -> Shaky Trick Room Check/Not a Check (Reset Trick Room)
    If you're running Zongroom, you want Trick Room up. Zonger already underspeeds pretty much every relevant Trick Room attacker and can just sleep them. I was more considering the situation where you're running semiroom and at that moment it would be more beneficial for you to have it not set, like facing a fullroom team with some super deadly attacker that outslowed all your Pokemon. I'll move to Shaky though. Also I'm editing all your "Shakey" to "Shaky" because it looks weird to me sorry

  • Thundurus-I -> Shaky Speed Control User
    Lele shuts down Prankster, and Fini shuts down Paralysis. The mons that thundy can paralyze regardless of terrain (Salamence, Charizard, etc.) are mons that it wins against offensively anyways. Dark-types are also newly immune to TWave, so yeah definitely moving

  • Milotic -> Not a Spread Attacker
    Icy Wind is technically a spread move, but outside of bypassing Jirachi to hit Salamence or Zygarde, when would you ever click Icy Wind for the damage output? Idk what I was thinking, I'm trying to figure it out but yeah this is getting removed

  • Tyranitar -> Solid Spread Attacker
    It learns Rock Slide and gets STAB on it. It's already there :D

  • Tyranitar -> Shaky Trick Room Attacker
    While TTar loses to some dedicated Trick Room attackers like Bulu, Araquanid, etc., its low speed is definately usable in a full-room team. Yep, missed this

  • Charizard-Mega Y -> Shaky Trick Room Attacker
    TTar exists and is becoming popular. I'm still a big fan of Zard on TR - powerful spread damage is huge and it's both bulky and fairly versatile (Focus Blast, Roost, HP Ground/Ice, second Fire-move all decent options), so I'm curious if anyone else would consider this only in Shaky

  • Necrozma -> Shaky Setup Attacker
    Why is this thing even still on the VR lol. But seriously, without Evoboost in the picture this thing takes forever to set up and I've never seen it sweep a game since Evoboost was banned. I still think it deserves to be on the VR but I agree it should not be in Solid

  • Terrain Setters/Beneficiaries (general comment)
    Is running a Terrain really an "optional" role in this meta?? The vast majority of successful teams run a Tapu just to ensure that they're in control of the battlefield and, while there are a few exceptions, running terrain is pretty much mandatory unless you have a specific reason not to. The Beneficiaries are optional though. I know that having setters up top, then beneficiaries down below isn't exactly ideal...but really that's where the meta's at right now imo. While it's probably not optional, I would liken it more to using Megas than to fulfilling any specific role. Rarely do I think in Teambuilding "Oh what am I lacking... I know, a Tapu!" It's generally more under the scope of "using this will prevent this terrain from screwing with my strategy" if I think about it at all. Leaving this at the bottom

I'm also going to edit in the Z-Move Compendium that Test Bot # made at the bottom, with a clarifying blurb right above. I think this best handles the fact that it's not exactly a role to fulfill but still useful information to have.

The next update will be made at the next VR update, and at that point I'll also go through the other entries and make a few little edits where they're needed.
 

talkingtree

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#10
Jirachi is gone, VR updates are made, and Sylveon is adjusted because I missed it last time!

How do you think Jirachi's banning will affect the roles? Will we need new roles for checks to Pokemon kept in-line by Jirachi? Will others fall out of importance without Jirachi to help them set up or wreak havoc? Also, would anyone want a "Utility Moves" section for things like Feint, Wide Guard, and Encore?
 
#11
The utility moves section was useful in ORAS. It'd be nice to have again imo.

In my mind it's too early to say if the Rachi ban will warrant adding new roles, but ik a lot of people are concerned about Psychic Spam, so potential contenders could be Deoxys-A checks and Metagross-Mega checks.

Also, I'm not sure if there's such thing as a Kang check rn, but that could be worthwhile to add.
 
#12
to be honest i think a section for tapu koko can be considered here, as its the pokemon i currently have the hardest time fitting on a team a check for. i am serious when i say tier 1 and tier 1.5 all lack a check for this single pokemone due to its typing coverage and power making it quite threatening to many teams. to not just be out there throwing points at random, i'll give a few examples:
(solid)
(shaky)

i might not be the best at this, but i still do think tapu koko is big enough of a danger to be on this thread.

adding a hoopa section also sounds kind of interesting if you ask me, because its one of those pokemon that if underprepared for, causes a lot of damage. this is also backed up by the fact that in the "general checklist" for a team, on the teambuilding framework thread, there is a point dedicated to "1 hoopa-u counter" so yeah, why not put it here to help those new builders that come here to find that check . a few examples:
(solid)
(shaky)
 
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#13
If there's a clear way to denote it, I think a "bulky steel checks" section is worth adding. One of the easiest errors to make in team building is not having answers to Cele and Ferro especially, but also tran, aegi, and bronzong

E: yh I know cele is already on there :)
 
#14
i wanted to mention something related to that, GenOne and something in the lines of "a water check" but yeah, i thought most celesteela checks and rain checks already held most pokemon that could fit in that category as well. some of the benchmarks , like fire checks for example, can be found in another similar section, in this example sun checks work
 

talkingtree

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#15
Sorry for the long wait, but this is finally updated! A quick log of things I did:
  • Added new VR mons
  • Removed UR mons
  • Added Tapu Koko checks
  • Added Hoopa-U checks
  • Re-ordered sections based on VR movement and prevalent new sets, including in Z-Move Appendix
I'm still not sure on the logistics / merit of a "Bulky Steel Checks" section, so I'm leaving it out for now, but will continue thinking about it.
 

talkingtree

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#16
Updated to match all VR changes. I'm thinking of making some bigger changes, but I don't have the time right now and wanted to make sure people get a chance to weigh in, so here's what I'm considering:
  • Add Tapu Fini checks
  • Add Snorlax checks
  • Add Marshadow checks
  • Reorder Weather section to Rain / Sand / Sun / Hail
  • Add 'Really fast Pokemon' to Revenge Killers, e.g. Kingdra/Deo-A/Excadrill/MGengar/Tapu Koko/Mega Lopunny (maybe a better title?)
  • Remove Sun Checks
  • Remove Heatran Checks? / Turn into Steel Checks?
  • Add Setup Checks?
  • Reorder list of ____ Checks, new order TBD
If you have a particularly strong opinion about any of the above, let me know! If I don't hear anything in the next week or so, I'll go through with at least all of the above without ?s.
 
#17
  • For snorlax checks how do you plan to do it? for example, hoopa-u itself doesnt really check snorlax but it can take away its berry which makes snorlax much less of a threat. same goes for knock off (and bug bite i guess). also outside of marshadow i cant see much that really stops it from setting up without double targetting (even then berry just activates).
  • Agree with marshadow and fini checks completely
  • Not sure what you would call the fastmons section of revenge killers but imo they need to be above base 130, so not koko or mgar.
  • i dont think removing sun checks is a great idea because a team without at the very least one solid fire resist and one zard check will find it very hard against a decent zard team, even if zard isnt that amazing in the meta. idk maybe you can remove it because theres a lot of overlap with other roles so lots of team naturally find enough zard checks on their team. not sure about this but removing it doesnt sit well with me.
  • this is probably obvious but for steel checks i guess just do it like the weather or speed control sections because each steel requires different checks.
  • i think setup checks is a good idea too but i think it may be a tough one to get right because theres more to it than just kill/outspeed the setup mon, you have fini/amoonguss to think about and mew is a pain too. i guess a haze section/scarfers for the dd mons (but what good scarfer is outspeeding +1 mence)/ knock off for lax. oh and maybe a specific mention for marshadow.
  • for reordering the list of mons you need to check, maybe just do it as they appear on the viability rankings? they may already be like that idk.

while we're at it a few role changes that might be worth implementing:
  • I dont think aegislash is a good celesteela check at all, if it isnt ghostium it just gets seeded down and even then at +1 spdef aegislash cant do anything to celes, regardless of set, maybe down to shaky.
  • possibly add hoopa to lele checks somewhere, it can take a psychic and its most common misty seed set can take a moonblast or two, if its LO its ohkoing lele anyway and doesnt get OHKOed by moonblast.
  • remove pelipper and volcarona from hoopa checks, they dont really damage hoopa and just get smacked by hyperspace fury, i can just about see victini staying but anything that is weak to hyperspace fury shouldnt really be there.
  • is pelipper really a rain check? it sets up what its supposed to be checking
  • i think kyub can move to solid icy wind user now, the av set is really good and icy wind is good on it
Take whatever changes you want from this! I really like this resource and use it often so im glad to see it getting some work
 

talkingtree

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#18
Just made updates to reflect the three most recent VR changes, sorry it had been a while since this was up-to-date! I also made most of AuraRay's suggestions a while ago and forgot to say so. The Z-Move section was edited to reflect current trends (Z-Move Deo-A, Steelium Aegis, Waterium Volcanion, etc) and I made a few other small edits here and there. Unless you see something that needs changing, this will likely be this resource's final update before the release of USUM.
 

talkingtree

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#19
With the release of the USUM VR, I've updated this resource for the new generation.... mostly. Every new Pokemon has been added to the roles I thought of, but it's certainly possible that I've missed some entries. If you see something that seems to be missing, let me know. However, that's not the main thing I need your help for—with this new generation should probably come new roles, so I'm considering the following changes and would love it if you'd let me know whether you think they'd be helpful.
  • Add *Mega Metagross Checks* in Crucial
  • Add *Stealth Rock Setters* in Non-Essential
  • Add *Utility Move Users* in Non-Essential: Ally Switch, Wide Guard, Haze, and potentially Stealth Rock (replacing the above if implemented)
  • Add Electroweb to Icy Wind under *Speed Control Users* and add Tapu Koko/Rotom-W
  • Anything else?