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Double Dragon Attack [Peaked 1800 on PS]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Sciztar, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259

    Double Dragon Attack

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction


    What's up Smogon it's Sciztar here with a new team! Many of you know me as one of the most supportive user for Trick Room in OU. I've written a Guide to Trick Room, Trick Room sets, and helped many people with their Trick Room team. But this time is different, this time I branched away from my traditional Trick Room team. I decided no Trick Room Pokemon for this new team. I was totally lost when it came to constructing a team from the ground up. Many of my former teams (Into the Haboon, Sciztar's Trick Room Team, I Can't See Anything in this Sandstorm) have centered themselves around the power of Trick Room and heavy offense from the sweepers associated with them. But making a new team was hard and totally confusing. I had a general idea of what type of team I wanted I just couldn't get the play style that would help get the team building started. Trinitrotoluene gets the biggest credit to the building process and battling strategy for this team. I got the idea of Double Shark Attack from TNT when he rated a team and suggested the use of Garchomp and Sharpedo. At first Superpowerdude was mentioning Double Shark Attack in his signature for a while and I never paid it any attention until I was sitting in my dorm construction a team together. That's when it hit me, wait a minute Garchomp and Sharpedo are both Shark Pokemon. But after a lot of testing Sharpedo was just to frail to function well on this team and I need a powerful sweeper so I brought in Kingdra. That's right Double Dragon Attack.


    Team Building

    [​IMG]

    Before Double Dragon Attack was even thought of, Magnezone was the first Pokemon I thought of. I always thought that Magnezone was a cool looking Pokemon when it was introduced in Gen IV so that where I got the idea of Magneozne. At first I wanted Magnezone on my team was early in BW1 Volt Turn was the most annoying play style around before rain team and Magenzone sports Volt Switch I thought I could bring an old play style back. I tried to play with strategy but I failed miserably. Feeling very dissapointed and upset over the failed attempted I scratched Magnezone from the team and went back to my pen and paper.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    As mentioned earlier, Double Dragon Attack is based from TNT when he rated a team and suggested the use of Garchomp and Sharpedo but I decided to add Kingdra instead. Kingdra is really a Dark Horse Pokemon but its starting to see more use now that Rain is become over populated in the OU. Kingdra really does abuse Rain team's drizzle greatly and outspeed every member of my opponent's team. I can easily fire off Hydro Pumps in the rain becuase of the extra boost it gets from the rain and Draco Meteor is Kingdra's best STAB. You can really say that those two moves are Kingdra's bread and butter, and waterfall is the juice on the side.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Okay I have two Pokemon down and only 4 to go. During this time I couldn't think of another Pokemon that would have synergy with these two Sharks. I looked through all of the old BW1 RMT when I stumbled upon an interested RMT that TNT had a while back where his team played around the DragMag offense. With that strategy I can get rid of Steel types that would oppose Garchomp's Outrage and sweep my opponent's team. Finally I could bring back Magnezone from the Power Plant in Fire Red. Since I'm used to Trick Room play style the use of Choice item was the appropriate item for Trick Room but I had to remember that i was not using a Trick Room team. TNT used an interested Choice Specs set for his Magnezone so I tried out that version and I'm loving that set to this day.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Having only one steel type to act as a defensive pivot or a stop to heavy offense wasn't good enough for this team. Bronzong plays an excellent role in getting up the entry hazards. People have forgotten how annoying Bronzong was in Gen IV at walling the entire tier and he continues to do that today. The only down side to Bronzong is that he has no way of getting recovery besides leftovers. I'm currently thinking about switching Bronzong to Ferrothorn because Bronzong tends to have a harder time with dealing with physical walls sometimes.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Special walls like the Blissey and Chansey girls were giving Kingdra and Magnezone problems. With the suggestion from Superpowerdude I now have a great answer to many special walls and bulky water Pokemon. Technichan is just great on Breloom I can easily abuse Mach Punch and if I'm able to get +2 Breloom becomes even more threatening. We already no how annoying Spore is so there's nothing else to say about Breloom signature move. Even though Breloom may not be bulky he does sport a resistance to water moves from Politoed, but I outspeed him anyway.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Terrakion and Keldeo were causing me problems with the team so from the suggestion of Ganj4lf I have LAtias here. I didn't have a true check to either of the two threats. Latias resist both of two two STAB moves and can easily dispose the two with both of her STAB moves with ease. With Latias as Alakazam replace she can take more than one hit that Alakazam couldn't. Sun teams and Rain teams aren't much a problem anymore no
    Team At a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team in Details


    [​IMG]

    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Trait : Rough Skin
    Jolly Nature
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Outrage
    Dual Chop
    Stone Edge
    Earthquake



    [​IMG]

    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Trait : Swift Swim
    Rash Nature
    EVs: 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe
    Rain Dance
    Draco Meteor
    Hydro Pump
    Waterfall



    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait : Magnet Pull
    Modest Nature
    EVs: 170 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
    Volt Switch
    Thunder
    Hidden Power Fire
    Flash Cannon


    [​IMG]

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait : Levitate
    Sassy Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 190 Def / 90 SpD
    Stealth Rock
    Toxic
    Gyro Ball
    Earthquake





    [​IMG]

    Desperado @ Life Orb
    Trait : Techinchan
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 252 Atk / 40 Def / 216 Spe
    Spore
    Swords Dance
    Mach Punch
    Bullet Seed



    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait : Levitate
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 72 / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Psyshock
    Recovery

    Closing Comments

    Well, the Shark Attacks are finally over which means this is the end of Double Dragon Attack. I would like to once again thank TNT for the help in creating the team and helping me with the strategy. I've never reached over 1700 on any team I originally had so my goal with this team was to reach at least 1700 but I peaked at 1800 on PS before the ladder reset. Now I can make my comments on how I think about this team. I wished I had Rapid Spin support because Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rocks don't help with Sharpedo and Kingdra. I've made the team where they aren't weak to Stealth Rock or entry hazards too much. I also have been thinking about trying Ferrothron in replace of Bronzong because he has better defenses and can handle the physical attackers, but Ferrothron doesn't have Levitate and is weak to fighting types and has a greater fire type weakness. Would Ferrothorn be a better wall or pivot in replace of Bronzong? If I forgot to mention anyone that has helped this team please let me know. And if you like this team, leave a Luvdisc in the top right corner.See ya Smogon
  2. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Threat List by Sciztar and TNT

    This is TNT and I conversation on how to deal with the threats.

    Common Lead Threats

    Focus Sash Breloom -
      • This is a problem to deal with. Usually, what I'll do is sack the least useful Pokemon to Spore, allowing Breloom to essentially take out one Pokemon at no cost to itself. What Pokemon do you send out? B/c no matter what Pokemon you send out breloom willl either Sub or Swords Dance. It really depends on what the opponent's team contains. Afterward, I sic Garchomp and Alakazam on it. This is a problem that needs to be resolved if our team is to be successful. I do agree Breloom is a major problem, I'll ask some people how they deal with Breloom.



    Tyranitar -
      • I like leading with Bronzong against Tyranitar, unless I see a Landorus on the opponent's team. What if you see Landorus-T? Do you still lead with Bronzong? Yes, I still lead with Bronzong. I get the opportunity to set up SR and hit it with Toxic. From there, it's easy. If I'm feeling lucky, I'll lead with Kingdra and start mowing his team apart.


    Ninetales -
      • lead with Garchomp and wait for the inevitable Forretress switch-in. Once that's happened, I'll bring Magnezone in and go for the kill. The only problem I see with this is you do let Forretress get either Stealth Rock or Spikes, but this team doesn't have a problem with entry hazards. Afterwards, I'll switch in either Garchomp or Kingdra and move accordingly from there.


    Mamoswine -
      • I'll lead with Bronzong, but I'll hit it with a Toxic first to break its Focus Sash. Afterwards, I'll set up SR and go for a Gyro Ball once its HP hits 80 - 83%. That usually beats it without too many problems from Endeavor. I never thought about using toxic to break the sash, I just learned something new lol.


    Pokemon General Found on Rain Team


    Dragonite - When I was testing this team I saw two types of Dragonite's in the rain. It's the Standard Dragon Nite Dragonite and the Mixed Dragonite. If Magnezone has elimated Politoed I can expect that my opponent will sent out Dragonite. I would bait the opponent to use Dragon Dance and I would switch straight to Garchomp. Knowing that Garchomp is still able to revenge Kill Dragonite even after a +1.


    Jirachi - My opponent usually sends out Jirachi if I start the match off with Magnezone to try to take out Politoed. Most of the Jirachi are either specially defensive or the Substitute + Thunder Wave version. I know that Jirachi is faster than Magnezone but Magnezone can 2HKO all Jirachi with Thunderbolt.

    Scizor -
    Now Scizor against can be tricky. The Choice Band version in the rain can be ddifficult for Magnezone because it has a 31.25% chance to OHKO with Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Fire in the Rain. But I fear the Superpower coming if I'm not able to KO it. I try to have Kingdra on the field before Scizor comes out to get the jump on Scizor with Hydro Pump.

    Jellicent -
    Since I know Jellicent doesn't run more than 44 Speed Evs Breloom can easily outspeed Jellicent. I more than likely go for the spore in hopes of a switch out into my opponent's supposed check for Breloom. Which I can then proceed to Swords Dance. If I don't want Jellicent to stay alive I just go ahead and use Bullet Seed to get rid of a bulky water type that would cause Kingdra problems.

    Rotom-W -
    Since Kingdra has problem with the Special Defensive version and since no one on my team can KO it. Superpower suggested Breloom to help with this problem. Since Special Defensive Rotom-W don't run any Speed Evs Breloom can easily outspeed it I just go ahead and use Bullet Seed if I don't see Latias on my opponents team.


    SUN Threats


    Volcarona -


    Choice Band Victin -
    In the sun this Pokemon can easily KO three members of my team with Flare Blitz which means I'm left with Latias, Garchomp and Kingdra. I try to let Breloom be the Pokemon to be KOed so I can switch to one of my three Pokemon that can stop Victini. The only member that doesn't have a chance to be OHKO is Kingdra but it barely has a chance to even 2HKO in the sun. The only one that has the best chance to KO Victini is Garchomp with its STAB Earthquake.

    Venusuar -
    As long as I don't let Venusuar get a growth under its belt, I will send out Latias and KO him with Psyshock. If it does obtain a Growth I don't try to send out Kingdra because Venusuar can easily dispose of him. Latias has a 18.75% chance to OHKO with Sludge Bomb.

    Dugtrio -
    FOCUS SASH, FOCUS SASH! I just always assume it has Focus Sash. That's why its important to have Stealth Rock on the field and to not have MAgneozne on the field if I haven't dispose of Dugtrio. I try to have Garchomp on the field when I'm facing sun teams, but if I have to send out Garchomp I have Dual Chop to break its Focus Sash and KO him.I'm comfortable with sending Garchomp out because I know that it will take 3HKO with Earthquake on the standard Focus Sash Dugtrio. I'm glad we have Dual Chop on Garchomp because this is the perfect move to break his focus sash.


    Sand Threats

    Skarmory -
    I know that Magnezone's Volt Switch and Thunderbolt can OHKO every version of Skarmory with Stealth Rock on the field. Its Hidden Power Fire only KOs the Physical version of Skarmory. If there are no Stealth Rocks on the field then I go ahead and use Thunderbolt but most Skarmory will Whirlwind me out. Sometimes I use Volt-Switch and switch to Bronzong because I know the only move that most Skarmory use is Brave Bird which is the death of them.

    Stoutland -
    In a sandstorm Stoutland can easily outspeed every Pokemon on my opponent's team so I needed a priority user to keep the dog in check. Before I send out Breloom, I send out Bronzong to sponge a hit because Stoutland barely has a chance to 3HKO Bronozng then I use Toxic to wear down the dog. Breloom has a 87.5% chance to OHKOwith Mach Punch but I just have to hope it OHKOs it becuase Stoutland can retaliate with Return.

    Landorus-T -
    I know that it has intimidated, so I have to be careful of who I send in. But I know that Bronzong laughs at Landorus-T's Stone Edge and U-Turn so I send out Bronzong to take a hit and use Toxic and wait for the switch out. I don't want to send in Latias with a U-turn fearing a chance to be KOed the next turn.

    Late Game / Revenge Killer

    Terrakion - We are going to assume this is the Choice Scarf version. Garchomp only takes Close Combat: 56.98 - 67.31%. The only time Terrakion gets troublesome if he's the Lead, b/c I know Stealth Rock and Focus Sash is on him. Terrakion can punch holes in my team if its behind a Substitute.

    Garchomp - Once again Bronzong does the number on Garchomp. I don't try to Toxic him, unless I know he's Choice or locked into Outrage. If he is, I use Toxic to make him useless.

    Keldeo - Kingdra is probably the only sure counter I use against Keldeo. If I have Stealth Rock on the field, a STAB Draco Meteor is waiting for him, but there is a 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. I think I remember that Kingdra still out speeds Keldeo in the rain, but outside it can't but it usually goes well for Kingdra outside of the rain. The Calm Mind and Choice Scarf versions are a bitch. Latias can easily switch in and dispose of the pony no matter if its the calm mind version.

    Latios -


    Salamence - If I notice the opponent is saving Salamence i know its there late game sweeper. Bronzong can take a Fire Blast from all versions of Salamence can get a 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. That's why its important to use Stealth Rock earlier in teh game because Stealth Rock turns a late game sweeper or revenge killer into an easier target. I just never imaged that Bronzong can do so much damage to a lot of Pokemon.

    Tornadus-T - Since Tornadus-T is only seen on rain teams, Kingdra can clearly outspeed Tornadus-t with ease. I try to save Draco Meteor until I know all of the steel types are handled by Magnezone, but if Hydro Pump has a more shakier accuracy than Draco Meteor its a toss up. It’s mostly how gusty I'm feeling.

    Hydreigon

    Cloyster - If Cloyster is in the rain, Kingdra will always out speed him no questions asked. Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump will KO him before a Shell Smash. But If I see Cloyster on Sun teams, this can be a problem. I can change the weather but Cloyster can easily KO Kingdra with Icicle Spear. I have to use Bronzong to poison him because Cloyster after a Shell Smash in the Sun has a (39.94 - 48.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock with Icicle Spear which will allow Bronzong sap enough HP to get Bronzong into striking distance to KO him with Gyro Ball. But now I have Breloom to stop Cloyster before and after a Shell Smash, after a Shell Smash I can guarentee a OHKO with Mach Punch.
  3. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Alright, props for the presentation and the detailed threat list for starters. Watching your team, the most glaring thing I noticed is the (substantial) absence of a Fighting resistance (yeah, Alakazam, but I don't consider a resistance something that's OHKO'd by Band Close Combat from Terrakion after any kind ofdamage to break its Sash). Also, only Kingdra can take strong, Rain boosted Hydro Pumps (and, funnily enough, Specs Keldeo has a chance, albeit very small, to 2HKO after Rocks through a x4 resistance. That's sick...). The most obvious solution is to use a Life Orb Latias instead of Alakazam. Latias can take attacks all day from most Keldeo / Politoed sets, take a Close Combat from basically anything and OHKO back with Psyshock, and is a generally good pivot with great defensive and offensive capabilities. You also run Rain Dance, which messes with Sandstorm, and thus eliminates another source of residual damage, that Latias hates. Latias can still sorta function as fast cleaner with STAB Surf in the rain, a spammable STAB Psyshock, and a wickedly powerful Draco Meteor; the only thing you'll miss over Alakazam is the ability to deal with Ferrothorn, but smart plays with Magnezone will render this a not-so-big issue. Latias also is a nice way to deal with Breloom, provided you don't come in on Spore (I was thinking about suggesting Sleep Talk on Magnezone, credit to TGMD for the idea, to absorb obvious Spores, but I'm not 100% sure about that, so...yeah, if you'd like the idea go and test it over Thunder or Flash Cannon). On a final note, all of Latias' weaknesses are somewhat already covered from the other members of your team, with three Ice resistances, and a handful of pokes that can take Crunches and weak U-Turns for Latias if there's a need to do so.

    Latias (open)
    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb | Levitate
    Timid | 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Roost


    Hope it helped. Good luck!
  4. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    This a cool team. On Kingdra's EV spread, it is unspecified what the 28 EVs are. You mention Attack EVs in its description, but I just wanted to make sure. Seeing as how you mentioned Forretress switch-in, I thought you should know that Choice Specs Tornadus-T has a 68.75% chance to OHKO Garchomp after a layer of Spikes with Hurricane.

    Looking at Hydreigon, it hits 486 Speed with a Timid Nature and a Choice Scarf. This outspeeds your entire team bar Garchomp, +2 Sharpedo, and Kingdra in rain. It can easily, with some smart switching on the part of the opposing player, kill nearly everything on your team. Alakazam doesn't get the guaranteed OHKO with Focus Blast, and Hydreigon can easily U-Turn out to something better equipped to take Alakazam. Magnezone also gets only the 2HKO with Flash Cannon, while Hydreigon Fire Blast has a 25% chance to OHKO, meaning Hydreigon hit, live a Flash Cannon, and hit again. Kingdra only outspeeds with the Rain up, meaning Hydreigon can easily get the jump on it without the rain. Bronzong can only Toxic or Gyro Ball, the latter being a 2HKO. Therefore, with only Garchomp being an immediate threat, I suggest Choice Scarf Latios instead of Alakazam. Timid Scarf Latios provides a reliable check to Timid Scarf Hydreigon.

    Latios@Choice Scarf
    Levitate
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    HP Fire
    Psyshock

    Again, great team, hope I helped.
  5. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    899
    Nice Team!
    For some reason this team is screaming SANDSTORM to me. Tyranitar/Hippowdon in place of Kingdra and then make Alakazam Life Orbed. Sorry if this is not what you want but this team seems like it can definitely take advantage of the Sand. Hope this helps!
  6. clail

    clail

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    id have to say no to sandstorm. sharpedo would hate the extra damage.

    sharpedo also runs a great mixed set that i would suggest.
    rash nature 252 sp a/ 108 speed (outspend tornadus t at +1)/the rest in att
    hydro pump
    ice beam
    crunch
    protect

    this set hits much harder on most pokemon because hydro pump and ice beam have way more base power.

    at the very least i would just change the nature of sharpedo to one that doesn't lower special and run ice beam over ice fang.

    normal type walls such as bliss chansey as you lack any immensely powerful physical attacks. or ways to prevent it from statusing you.

    still overall a great team that uses some cool underrated pokemon
  7. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
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    Hi Sciztar

    Love the team you have here, really nice to see people using the underrated threat that is Sharpedo, was actually trying to build a team myself with him. Now looking at your, one of the major threats to it is Chlorophyll Venusaur. Under sunlight, Venusaur outspeeds your entire team, even Sharpedo at +2, and can really run through it with its standard coverage of Giga Drain and Hidden Power [Fire]. Bronzong and Kingdra may be able to survive an attack but both are rendered helpless by Sleep Powder. Another threat as you mentioned is Breloom. Breloom can put one of your Pokemon to sleep using Spore and nothing on your team likes taking Mach Punches, especially if Breloom has Swords Dance. Lastly, Choice Scarf Keldeo can be troublesome in the lategame once your Pokemon have been worn down and can clean up with Hydro Pump or Secret Sword. For these threats, I recommend replacing Kingdra with a Life Orb Offensive Latias with a moveset of Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Surf / Recover. Latias is one of the best checks to both Sun teams and Rain teams in general with her massive Special Defense stat and her resistance to Fire, Grass, and Water. She can take almost any attack from Venusaur, Breloom, and Keldeo and finish them off with a STAB Psyshock. Draco Meteor is a powerful STAB attack that Latias can fire off for solid damage and Surf provides coverage against Heatran and Scizor. Recover allows Latias to heal off Life Orb recoil as well as Burn and Poison damage, greatly augmenting her bulk. Losing Kindra makes it a bit harder to handle opposing weather teams, but Latias does a great job against common weather abusers herself.

    Now for some smaller changes. On Garchomp, I suggest using Fire Blast over Stone Edge / Fire Fang. Fire Blast hits Skarmory and Scizor harder than either of the current moves due to them having lower Special Defense than physical Defense. On Magnezone, I recommend Thunderbolt over Thunder. Although Thunder's higher power and paralysis chance is great, the 70% accuracy outside of rain is just not reliable enough. Thundebolt provides reliability and is typically sufficient with Magnezone'a high Special Attack stat coupled with Choice Specs.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:
    Show Hide
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Surf
    -Recover



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Kingdra ----> Life Orb Offensive Latias
    Stone Edge/Fire Fang on Garchomp ----> Fire Blast
    Thunder on Magnezone ----> Thunderbolt
  8. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Hey!

    I'm going to second Ganj4lf's Latias over Alakazam since it has more utility and use than Alakazam T_T. I mean there are so many more benefits: better fighting absorber, electric resist, dragon typing, water switch-in, better sun check, keldeo counter, etc.

    Get rid of 4 EVs into HP and move it elsewhere on Chomp please. It increases SR number, and scarfers are constantly switching.

    Use Thunderbolt over Thunder for better accuracy and so you can spam specs blast.


    Onto the threat list: I really hated it. You named a bunch of Pokemon in each archtype you can easily handle. Like under sand, instead of putting Choice Scarf Keldeo (which I admit you do put later), you put.... Skarmory. When you own a fucking Magnezone. On Terrakion (put under Late Game / Revenge Killer) you mention the lead set. WTF?!? How does the lead set late game sweep OR revenge kill? You probably should put that under the common leads, and then you forget to mention SubSalac Terrakion, THE MOST COMMON LATE GAME SWEEPING TERRAKION SET. *sigh*.

    A Threat List is supposed to name threats to the team or address common archetypes; you don't really do either except for addressing common leads. Instead of telling us how you deal with rain... you tell us about Rain Dnite / Band DNite... the least common DNite sets in the game. Once again you also put Scizor.... when you have Magnezone and a bunch of BP resist. You mention Jirachi when you have Magnezone. I would let it slide if this were trying to explain how you deal with rain except you don't tell us how you deal with DuggyRain, which is a huge threat, or how you deal with Scarf Keldy in rain.... which is a huge threat. We move on to sun and you didn't even address Venu (or forgot to). Instead of mentioning how Band Victini + LO Venu is super threatening, you go on about how you deal with Volca... when you own rain dance Kingdra with waterfall T_T.

    tl;tr: its really hard to rate a team when your trying to use a threat list as a reference and it turns out to just be stating the obvious: how you deal with Pokemon that you aren't weak to. You name sashloom as a threat but you forget to mention how LO +2 Breloom kills everything (if Zam's sash is broken / if it switches into BS). You don't name Scarf Keldy as a threat -- you just list it like you do for the Pokes who aren't threats. At least highlight it red or something :S Zam can't switch into Scarf keldeo js.


    SORRY FOR THE LONG RANT. I'm being critical since the format is nice, but the content is not. The team itself id good, but please make a productive threat list next time for raters :D Sorry for being mean but I hope that by being harsh you improve next time~!

    Shurty
  9. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Thanks for the Latias suggestion that really helped with dealing with Keldeo. It was a problem for a team, Kingdra can't take a hit for real, it has really helped me with Venusaur and Sun teams as well. I haven't missed Alakazam, but what are the 72 HP EVs for?

    I tried the Mixed Set but I needed to beat Choice Scarf Pokemon at +2 with 252 in Speed. Skarmory isn't a problem because I have Magnezone to deal with them. Plus getting the jump on Latios is good to ensure the OHKO to Latios, so I appreciate the suggestion but I prefer the Physical set.

    Thanks for explaining what this team struggles with. Everything you highlited was a major problem and Alakazam couldn't handle none of those threats. Latias does a great job of taking hits from these threats and KO them with Psyshock. I appreciate the rate.

    I didn't know it increases SR numbers thanks for the small imput.

    The reason why I use Thunder is RAIN. Everytime I battle on PS or PO there is a 1/3 chance I will run into a rain team. Now that seem legitimate to run Thunder on Magnezone. Volt Switch does its number on a lot of threats with ease. I know I can ensure perfect accuracy outside of the rain with Thunderbolt, but I'll stick with THunder.


    Well Damn. lol. I'm sorry i didn't put every damn set for Terrakion for each threat on this threat list. This was a conversation with me and TNT about a general idea of how we deal with each threat. I understand you want the specific details, but I posted this threat list at 4AM. I appreciate the criticism and I'll go back and fix those problems when I get a minute.

    Changes Made:

    Moved 4 EVs from HP to Def

    Life Orb Latias
    Fire Blast on Garchomp

    I'm considering
    :

    Mixed Kingdra Set
  10. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !!!
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    1,367
    Hey Sciztar nice team and DOUBLE SHARK ATTACK YES!

    Looking at your team and the threatlist you did mention some Pokemon to be annoying for you to face. Sandstorm teams that utilise Stoutland can be problematic because Stoutland outspeeds your whole team and can do a lot of damage with Return / Superpower / Ice Fang / Crunch hitting a lot of your team members super effectively. Terrakion is also a threat for primarily the same reason can outspeed your whole team, it has good power and it has good coverage. You mentioned nothing on your team can ohko Rotom-W and if its in rain its boosted Hydro Pumps will hurt. Specially Defensive varaints with Thunderwave look the most annoying because they can also severly cripple Kindgra and Latias. Jellicent walls a few members of your team (Latias, Kingdra) and can threaten your physical sweepers with Will-o-Wisp. He can also cripple Bronzong with Taunt. Finally you also mentioned Cloyster to be a threat in sun because Kingdra can't outspeed and after a Shell Smash it is capable of sweeping your team if it is weakend.

    To help your team against Stoutland, Terrakion, Rotom-W, Jellicent and Cloyster i suggest running a Swords Dance Breloom>Kingdra with Brelooms priority Mach Punch it can help you beat those fast powerful threats Terrakion, Cloyster and Stoutland. After a Swords Dance Breloom is quite a powerful Pokemon and can weaken walls for your powerful DOUBLE SHARK ATTACK core much like Kingdra could. With Spore it can make slower Pokemon complete set up fodder for it such as Jellicent and Rotom-W. He can also beat both of these Pokemon with his Bullet Seed. Breloom would be a great asset in your team primarily due to his priority which your team currently lacks. He also has great sweeping potential which i think you will also really enjoy. While you can't counter weather as good without Kingdra Breloom still does well against rain, can help you against sand anyway with his ability to set up on any Tyranitar and Hippowdon set barring Choice Scarf Tyranitar and also beat Terrakion and Stoutland to common sand team Pokemon. Breloom also helps you with a few threatening Pokemon that are harder to deal with if you use Kingdra and Breloom also provides your team with a great offensive Pokemon like Kingdra.

    My only other suggestion would be Zen Headbutt>Ice Fang on Sharpedo. This is because Zen Headbutt lets you hit Keldeo super effectively who is quite threatening to your team with his excellent typing and really Latias is the only other Pokemon that can take it on. Ice Fang is not needed to much because Crunch already does a lot to Dragon-types like Latios and Latias, and Garchomp can revenge kill Dragon-types with his good speed.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped! Also Luvdisc'd

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Life Orb | Technician
    Adamant | 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Spore | Swords Dance | Mach Punch | Bullet Seed

    TL:DR
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    Kingdra--->Breloom

    Sharpedo
    .Ice Fang--->Zen Headbutt



    ~Superpowerdude
  11. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    I've updated this team by changing Sharpedo out for Breloom to hit special walls.

    Bump.
  12. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Hi there, I got your request.

    I have no so much to tell anyway let's start with the rate!

    Your team is a bit weak to Tornadus-T. Your only switch into Tornadus, Bronzong hasn't a recovery move and without a big EV investment on SDef it can't tank well Tornadus-T's hurricane. Therefore, I suggest you to change Bronzong's EV spread into 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef. 252 EVs in SDef allow to tank better Tornadus-T's attacks and that's fine for your team. Finally, on Garchomp I'd use Fire Blast, replacing Fire Blast and I'd use Naive nature, replacing Jolly nature accordingly. Venusaur can be problematic for your team and Fire Blast can fix this weakness.

    Hope I helped, good luck!
  13. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    This is a very well built team.I don't have much to suggest.Have you thought about putting sleep talk on Magnezone?If you Lead SashLoom's give you a hard time,you can always use Sleep Talk instead of Flash Cannon on Magnezone.All of it's other moves are very good against steel types which are your main targets.While the loss of Flash Cannon can be unappealing in terms of coverage,I don't think you need to use it too much.

    Your team also looks a little weak to SDBreloom considering that Latias is your only check to it and has the possibility of getting pursuit trapped by Ttar/Scizor.It is also a possibility that Latias gets worned down.So a sleep absorber would help you against it,thus making sleep talk Mag worthwhile.I also suggest trying out max speed Jolly loom over your current breloom so that you can outspeed most other Breloom variants as well as getting the jump over neutral base 80s.Losing out 25% chance of getting KOed by Mamo's Ice shard isn't a big loss.

    Overall nice team and good luck!
  14. nygerman

    nygerman

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    157
    I suggest Focus Punch over sword dance. Focus Punch stronger than +2 mach. If your opponents switches to Tornadus or Latios, a focus punch followed by mach punch KOs it.
  15. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    Hi, got the pm, cool team man. Dragons are boss. Anyways, onto the team; it looks solid, I did find some threats, however. SD Lucario can be a a bit of a problem. Lucario can setup on your Magnezone locked into Flash Cannon and can deliver quite the blows to your team. After some damage to Latias and Garchomp, it is able to 6-0 your team if Stealth Rock is up. It's basically the same scenario with SD Croak as well. If a Pokemon on your opponent's team has taken Breloom's Spore already, Toxicroak can easily set up on it and wreck some havoc. I don't really know what to change without messing up your team, so just make sure to keep Garchomp unscathed if you see these two. The only other Pokemon I found annoying to your team is Choice Band Azumarill under the Rain. Even Latias takes 61.12 - 72.1% from Waterfall. You do not have any safe switches, bar Kingdra, which does not want to take around 33% damage every switch in. You need Kingdra to sweep and generally want to keep Kingdra alive late game. This is why I recommend at least trying Ferrothorn in the place of Bronzong. The only move you would have to worry about from Azumarill is Superpower. Ferrothorn also provides you with an even easier way to handle opposing rain teams and Rotom-W. Ferrothorn is capable of laying hazards just as Bronzong was and boasts a higher physical defense. Using a moveset of Stealth Rock / Leech Seed / Protect / Power Whip can do wonders for your team. Unlike Bronzong, Ferrothorn has access to a recovery move, Leech Seed; when paired with Protect, you can really frustrate your opponent while regaining your health back. The only problem in using Ferrothorn is that you become a bit weaker to Tornadus-T. However, Garchomp and Kingdra should take care of him quite easily still. You can also choose to use Rocky Helmet over Leftovers if you feel the Leech Seed recovery is enough. Rocky Helmet can really pester physical attackers who will take 29% damage from Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet, especially useful for Azumarill and Scizor. If you want to give it a go, I'll post the set after this.

    Hope I helped and good luck.

    Set:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Power Whip
  16. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Hey Sciztar great team.

    This team is very solid, but I see that your team struggles against fire moves. Your team has 3 Pokemon weak to fire and 3 that resist fire moves. While that might seem ok synergy, you don't want to send out Garchomp or Kingdra on fire moves in the risk of getting burned and weakening their physical attacks. You put a lot of pressure on Latias to sponge most of these attacks. The only thing I can think of to help this Stealth Rock lead Mamoswine. While Manoswie and Breloom have perfect synergy together. Mamoswine can function more as a Dragon check and a check to Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T. Even though you lose out on Terrakion, I believe that Latias can help stop Terrakion for you.

    Hoped I helped and luvdisc
  17. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    thanks Shining Latios for the rate. After a SD from Lucario it does power through my team. I'll try out Ferrothorn over Bronzong.

    Ace, welcome back. You're right fire moves are a nusience especially from Heatran. Your Mamoswine suggestion is very interesting, I'll try out your suggestions as well. It seems like Bronzong is the odd one out.
  18. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,818
    Hey there, i would definitely try to fit in a fire move on Garchomp so he isn't absolutely walled by pokemon like Skarmory or Bronzong if it does come to that late game or something. stone edge is rarely used and usually you are going to use Dragon/Ground coverage on the pokemon that you intend to use Stone Edge on.

    Additionally, with two choiced pokemon I feel you need more than one defensive pokemon to fall back on if you choose to lock yourself into the wrong move. Bronzong is a good choice as it can take any kind of hit pretty well, but it's the only pokemon you have for that task.

    My suggestion would be an offensive Donphan. Your team handles rain teams pretty effectively just because you have Kingdra and Magnezone for the Ferrothorn that could take on Kingdra. Any offensive threat in rain is ohko'd or 2hko'd by Kingdra and you have Bronzong to take 1 or 2 hits from Tornadus. However, Sun and Sand teams could be problematic as you have 3 pokemon currently weak to fire and you don't have the advantage of having rain up for Kingdra to immediately combat sand. Donphan could take some hits from Tyranitar and preserve Latias's health if you manage to take out tar before latias comes in. Against sun teams you have something to hit nearly everything on their team hard and its not as dead weight as breloom.

    Additionally, making Bronzong specially defensive wouldn't be a bad idea to take on Tornadus-T and other random special pokemon better. If you do decide to go with my donphan suggestion you do have that for taking pressure of Bronzong in taking every hit. You could also use HP [Ice] over toxic to see how you do against gliscor. It could definitely wall you if you only have gyro ball to hit it.
    Donphan (open)
    Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Head Smash
    - Ice Shard
    - Rapid Spin

    Going purely defensive on Donphan is an option, but I believe the power you get from a stronger EQ is vital. You don't want Donphan to continuously take hits and deal minimal damage back and just have it gradually worn down.


    Hope I helped and good luck.

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