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Double Sand Stall Empire

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Shake, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Double Sand Stall Empire


    [​IMG]

    Hello how are you guys? Here I bring something I call it a work of art, a team that includes the pokemon needed to fight without any problems at all Bw2 threats with high strength, hope you like it
    -


    Team builder process




    [​IMG]

    My first thought was elected in climate and the sandstorm.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Then I thought of something to give me water resistance and could type while power abosorver Toxic Spikes, then I thought Amoongus is leading this team


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I have a good wall that gives me strength physical part that gives me the weather and one that has water resistance, struggle, plant, something was missing but I need something to help me cover types flying attacks, I immediately thought to Zapdos part I helps fight some threats as Breloom and Zapdos with his great moveset.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Later I thought of the pokemon I give permits to Rapid Spin and Spikes in completing my stall so

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I needed something to convince me that I could completely collapse dragons endure physical and a threat to increase its attack, part of which would ensure and surprise me with Thunder Wave, who more than Slowbro?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And finally the most dangerous member of this team, is what allows me to give the final touch, catch latwins annoying, to raze a single bite with their set Reuniclus that CM can be a nightmare for this team, with this sure I have won the war of climates.


    Changes:​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Zapdos Thunder Wave = Hp ice
    Amoonguss = Celebi
    Forretress = Starmie
    Tyranitar Band = Tyranitar Choice Scarf
    Slowbro = Skarmory




    In detail:


    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off


    This is the climate that gets me, is one of its roles, besides being a physical wall, I may start opening stall with Stealth Rock, helps repel me Kion is a major threat in the metagame, I have roar to prevent boost and spend and cause damage to my opponent's pokemon with spikes and Stealth Rock, Slack off allows me to recover 50% of hp and great earthquake stab attack. all were distributed in evs hp and defense to have a high resistance to physical.

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Perish Song / Hidden Power Fire
    - Recover
    - Heal Bell / Baston Pass


    This gives me security pokemon to counter water types, plant, struggle, lets me beat Breloom no problem because Breloom with weakened to clear smog and loom attacks are almost negligible for amoongus, this is the one I keldeo helps beat and break the substitute with +2 special defense because you add the 28 evs in special attack, I have spore gives me and give me a pokemon asleep advantage by a few turns, so I have hp ice for the Wicked Gliscor toxic sub that is a bit problematic with evs in def add you to amoonguss he can not do much of anything, other than that I can hit hp ice directly landorus and dragons, Giga drain another stab attack allowing me to have obedience against Politoed and go slowly weakening. as I said in the 28 special attack evs are added to remove the sub at +2 keldeo special defense, the 8 speed to bring in other amoonguss speed and also to Reuniclus, the evs in defense is to go without problems some physical attacks, the special defense evs are required to hold in the hand Poitoed Spec.
    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave


    Zapdos Well as you know is one of my favorite special walls, with this I can do against a lot of pokemon no problem, Heat wave for Ferrothorn, Forretress, Breloom, scizor, Venusaur among others, hp ice for one of the most Sweepers dangerous is this metagame Special Landorus is a major threat to this team, I can also fight gliscors, some dragons roost allows me to recover and move forward, this is the Volt Switch to repel attack my friend Tornadus T a part that is my only stab attack would hit decently. This helps me a lot in the Suns because the attack Heatwave helps me stop Venusaur if the situation gets out of control. The evs 248 were added to resist changes Stealth Rock 5, 8 special attack to increase the minimum thing, 236 special defense to resist special attacks without any problem and 16 evs in speed to outrun the adamant Breloom.
    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 8 SpA / 224 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psyshock
    - Scald

    Well this is one of the most important because this put spikes that while I remain clean battlefield, put Spikes are vital in the field of the opponent with these finish the stall and go slowly wearing down the opponent these combined with the Stealth Rock are wonderful, Volt Switch is to predict a change and yet it is a trap for ghosts Tell yourself Jellicent Volt Switch and I caught this by Band Tyranitar, rapid Spin to keep my battlefield clean and all trash, Gyro Ball stab attack that hits decently and for those who use dragons dragon dance, say, Nite and Haxorus -.- and to break the sub to weaken terrakion and maybe even if you have used for 1KO Close Combat. EVs were focused so that I had a good physical defense and almost a decent special defense.


    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    With this I keep quiet by dragons boosters, landorus t, Conkeldurr, terrakion if there has been increased too much, Ice Beam is to Landorus 1KO T, without the ability Multiscale Nite On, among other things, Thunder Wave gives me the advantage in predict a change and surprise him with this attack to help me speed up my team and bring speed, Slack off to recover, Scald with stab attack that lets me burn the opponent and weakening slightly combined with the sandstorm and Stealth Rocks and spikes. Evs are totally dedicated to doing a physical wall.


    [​IMG]


    Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge

    And finally the master chart of this team, plus it gives me and assured me the weather, one of his roles as they explain in the Team Builder was to catch those pesky latias and latios, a part of which is what helps me stop Reuniclus with 1KO, catch Jellicents since story with enough speed to overtake and Crunch or Pursuit predecirle as this depends on your hp and the situation I am, pursuit also is a big blow to the change of Politoed, Evs are to be distributed a good balance of special defense and speed to overcome Skarmorys sufiente, Jellicents, Choice Band Scizor Standard.​


    Conclusion

    Apparently the team covers just about everything I've tried and few things have given me problems, has a large variety and has for all that is heavily loaded Bw2 threats.​



    Importable

    Show Hide
    Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off

    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 8 SpA / 224 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psyshock
    - Scald

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover
    - Heal Bell

    Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
  2. Nyron777

    Nyron777

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    just a suggestion i found while using my Ttar, Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed ALOT of threats just what i found while using him with a similar set
  3. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks, proves it to see how it goes ;)
  4. Jok

    Jok

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Hey, this is a good defensive team.
    The primal problem here is to fight against multiple setup sweepers, since you lack a real revengekiller, not only that, tornadus-t is also problematic in a way.
    First thing consider Thunder Wave over Hidden Power Ice, since you already have Slowbro, hp ice on Zapdos isn't that useful, on the other hand Thunder Wave can help you nerfing any opposing 'mons by abusing Zapdos' great bulk, after that, you may want a needed revengekiller, something that can also helps you against dragons if things go ugly with Slowbro, at the same time it could be great if the revengekiller can somehow check psychic types like Tyranitar does, and let's not forget about Tornadus-t, so... have you considered ScarfJirachi over Cbtar? This way you will gain a revengekiller if somehow things for you gets bad, Jirachi can also give you momentum together with Zapdos thanks to the infamous Volturn combo.
    Hope it helped, good luck.






    Sets:

    Show Hide
    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heat Wave
    - Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave


    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
  5. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22

    Greetings, firstly haha Zapdos Hp ice in what I have to bring down particularly special landorus 1KO, the following is that if I have to tyranitar, CM Reuniclus shatter yet Latias / Latios like I would make a mess, but nothing is lost by try, I'll try to see how I go, thanks;)
  6. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Hi Shake.
    It is a very effective and very strong team, I have a similar team with 3 other Pokémon, Zapdos/Amoongus/Slowbro core is just too good, then have 2 Weathers can compensate for the weakness in the Sun's Team, but you are very disadvantaged against Gengar no? You can't kill because he outspeed Tyranitar, Hippowdon can do anything because gengar has Levitate and Hidden power Ice does not break the substitute, I suggest you put Tyranitar in Scarf, you can break the Substitute and coming to pursuit.

    But I see that you are at a disadvantage against Volcarona, if it places a quiver Dance you can not do anything, I see also that you have lot of stall physical while in your team Slowbro/Forretress is widely enough, then I suggest you put on Dugtrio on Hippowdon, Dugtrio is a good counter for the Sun's team, because you're a little weak against this climate, and then he can come on Volcarona to the trapp and the kill with Stone edge, but I suggest you Dugtrio also because you can't do anything against Heatran, even with Slowbro because under sun it takes 50% on FireBlast (252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro in sun: 177-209 (44.92 - 53.04%) - 0.39% chance to 2HKO)
    and heatran can be Toxic, Hippowdon can not come on heatran because it can be 2HKO or burn by Fire Blast / Lava Plume, now you can the trapp and the OHKO.

    Also warning against Landorus Spec because it 2HKO Zapdos with Hidden power Ice if he is Sheer Force + Life orb, and amoonguss does not kill it with Hp Ice, Slowbro is OHKO after Steal Rock (252 + SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / SpD Slowbro 0: 302-356 (76.64 - 90.35%) - guaranteed 2HKO)

    Tyranitar
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower


    Dugtrio
    Show Hide
    Dugtrio (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar--->Choice Scarf>Choice Bander
    Hippowdon--->Dugtrio


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck.
  7. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Hey thank you very much convinces me that idea, proves these insurance set and perhaps change them, thank you very much again ;)
  8. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Hello,

    I really like your team :D, let's start with the rate!

    At first, your team is weak to Volcarona that can 6-0'd you easily after one Quiver Dance and to Sheer Force Landorus that beats Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Slowbro, Forretress and Amoonguss and give some problem to Zapdos with Hidden Power Ice. To solve the weakness to Sheer Force Landorus, I suggest you to use Special Defensive Celebi in place of Amoonguss, it has a similiar typing but it can also check well Landorus with its huge difensive statistics. I will post Celebi's set in this post later. To solve your weakness to Volcarona, I'd use Special Defensive Heatran in place of Zapdos, as it, Heatran is a very good special defensive sponge but it can block any version of Volcarona without Hidden Power Ground that's uncommon in the current metagame. Now, you have some problems with Tornadus-T because it can hit hard Heatran with Superpower and Focus Blast so it's only a check for it. For this reason, I suggest you to use Special Defensive Hippowdon in place of your current one. It, in combination of Heatran, can check very well Tornadus-T, it can also check Gengar that can be problematic for this team. Hope I helped, good luck. Here's the set that you would try:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off
    - Whirlwind
    - Earthquake
  9. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22

    Ok, it may be a good idea, I'll try all your recommendations, until my best, thank you very much.
  10. CyberOdin

    CyberOdin

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    626
    Hello! Shake.
    Your team is good, I've tried and some battles That drew me to gengar I had some trouble to remove them Because your wall sp.d That Zapdos and only time I had to go Threw Zapdos most times and Gengar Shadow Ball I does considerable damage, the gengar with leftover Shadow Ball: 37.59 - 44.12% without saying that there are times when I have Steal Rock in the field and I have to get that 24% making me a result of: 291.08 HP and if it were a gengar with life orb damage would be a Shadow Ball: 48.82 - 57.44% more terrible and stating that if you lose one gengar vs Zapdos ariesgas will be sweepeado and more if there is hazard in your field, why? pokémons most do not do anything the most you can do is phasearlo with Hippodown but a shadow will eat you if you throw a ball and amoonguss exploited for a sub and one Focus Blast dies tyranitar , I would recommend you to try this.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    with 363 in speed exceeds Starmie and the 8 remaining evs in hp if you fall and hurt with Steal rock 301.84 by becoming as full as it is rounded 302 HP and if this exceeds Starmie with 363 exceeds Gengar that you can kill with Crunch and if you feel the change rival launches pursuit, Super power to mirror match and pokémons as ferrothorn , Blissey, etc.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SAtk / 248 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Beam

    This is a little more current paint Because It has Ice Beam by Superpower, for Pokémon as Swords Dance Garchomp, Landorus SP.A, Landorus-Therian. result:

    Tyranitar vs Landorus - SP.A with 319 HP: Ice Beam: 90.28 - 106.58%
    Tyranitar vs Landorus - SP.A with 356 HP (Rock Polis): Ice Beam: 80.89 - 95.5%
    Vs Tyranitar Garchomp - witch SD 358/359 HP: Ice Beam: 75.97 - 90.5%
    Gliscor vs 354 HP Tyranitar: Ice Beam: 84.74 - 100.56%

    As you can see the damage that causes only sp.a 205 but if you want something you can take more safer evs in attack and put in Sp.A.


    Elso you can put Hippodown with Sp.d instead of Def, because you have Slowbro vs pokémons as Landorus -Therian defends and dragonite DD Slowbro Resist an Outrage. Good luck
  11. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22

    Insurance Odin, the choice should become Tyrano scarf, thank bro
  12. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    I feel Stealth Rock should be used instead of Spikes as SR gets universal damage, whereas Spikes doesn't hit the Therians/Levitators/Balloon Pokemon.
  13. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Yesterday I didn't post Celebi's set: Here's it:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - U-turn
    - Perish Song
  14. acerinox

    acerinox

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Hey! I love your team man! However, I'd suggest changing Whirlwind for Ice Fang to catch Salamence or Dragonite or whatever flying types wanting to come in on your earthquake. Great team though!! :D
  15. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Yo there,

    You have a very interesting team with a great use of zapdos, so props for that. I've used it a bit on the ladder and i've found some weaknesses (not terrible) but that can be fixed kinda easily.
    Basically, any form of status gives this problem in the long run; Scald toed, Scald Cruel, Scald Gastrodon, Lava plume Heatran, Wow ninetales, wow jellicent and wow rotom-w are all annoying to face, because the most of it will burn your amoonguss (toed, cruel, rotom, jelli, gastro) and with sand up and stealth rocks on the field you will have problem to keep it alive. The others two can burn some of your members in predict, making hippowdown and tyranitar less threatening. Also ferrothorn paired with Politoed has too many chance to setup spikes in my opinion, zapdos can beat it but forretress cant really do nothing against it, ferrothorn can even switch out while you rapid spin making you lose 17%. Bug types like Scizor and volcarona seems threatening, Scizor can spam strong u-turn to almost any member bar Forretress (who cant touch it) and zapdos, and paired with rotom-w it can be problematic since after a burn of rotom-w zapdos will have problems to handle volturn teams. Gengar also seems threatening, it can 2ko basically all your members bar Zapdos, that since its stealth rock weak it can easily be weakened. Lastly, i think that sheer force landorus its quite problematic if you lose zapdos (as u can see, zapdos counters too many things in this team and it has a lot of pressure) and im quite sure that with stealth rock up hp ice will 2ko you, so i think you should add something else that can handle it. Dont get me wrong, this team is quite solid, im just talking about things that in the right situation can give you problems, not necessarely 6-0 you.

    Now moving into the rate, the thing that can help you with the most number of threaths while also doing the same role is Specially defensive Celebi. It basically do the same role of Amoonguss but it helps a lot against status from bulky waters thanks to natural cure, with hidden power fire gives trouble to Ferrothorn and scizor, having something else to weaken them its fine i think, celebi is also good to switch on rotom-w and stop volturn cores. Celebi can stop Landorus also which is a good niche. What you lose now is the poison type, meaning that toxic spikes can maybe be problematic; for this reason i think that running heal bell on the last slot is a nice choice, it also helps if you mispredict a ninetales wowing your ttar or lava plume heatran burning something.

    Now to help a bit against Gengar and Volcarona i think that a nice move would be to put Thunder wave on zapdos instead of hp ice. Hp ice is not needed anymore for landorus since you have celebi so its not a big issue. With thunder wave you can at least paralize a volcarona trying to sweep you, so that you can revenge kill it with tyranitar, zapdos is the only things that can switch out and maybe take a fire blast so i dont know how to cover this weakness. As for gengar, i think that volt switching on it is not a good idea because you have to switch again on zapdos, Heat wave can be stalled out by pain split and thunder wave can help when your opponent pain split without a sub.

    Lastly, i strongly recommend to put psichic instead of Thunderwave on Slowbro. Honestly, i've never found scald that usefull, so if you want to keep twave put it instead of Scald. Psichic is too good to stop Conkeldurr, terrakion and even keldeo (assuming there is not rain up) so i think you should really use it.
    Other than these few things i dont think you have any evident weaknesses, luvdisced :3

    Set:
    Show Hide
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover
    - Heal Bell

    Hidden power ice > Thunder wave

    Thunder wave > Psichic
  16. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Greetings, thank you very much for your evaluations that have been helpful.

    @ Organization Member: If you are right the universal damage SR but the spikes are much needed in the stall, thank you very much

    @ Alexander: Neliel and your right about putting a celebi amoongus rather due to scalds and stuff that might bother me much. Thanks for the set x3

    @ Acerinox: Probare Ice Fang to see how I go, Thx

    @ Neliel: very interesting set of celebi, proves both yours and that of Alexander.

    Later I will switch from the amoonguss Celebi, Zapdos Thunder Wave.

    Thank you very much to all commenting continue to improve this team best.
  17. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Updated, New Sets And pokemon.
  18. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,200
    Solid sand stall team man, stall is hard to pull off, but you seem to have done so effectively with this team. You have most threats covered pretty effectively, but in my mind, the single biggest problem here is that your hazard control seems to be a bit less effective than what it could be. For instance, Forretress has an extremely difficult time spinning against many of the offensive teams in this metagame because they pack a lot of power on the special side, so you're going to be switching your Pokemon into Spikes and Stealth Rock a good amount against rain teams with Ferrothorn (which make up a pretty good chunk of the metagame, actually). You also are in a tough spot against Gengar, and once Zapdos goes down, it can have a field day and you can't really do much to stop it, due to hazards. The only change I would consider would be replacing your Rapid Spin user to one that can control hazards more effectively while keeping a steady defensive backbone that doesn't break easily. This is no easy task, but I think some changes can accomplish it.

    The best spinner in this metagame is likely either Starmie or Tentacruel. Starmie does very well against Gengar is a good asset for many stall teams due to its high Speed and access to Scald, while Tentacruel can tank repeated hits and either lay Toxic Spikes or spread poison with Toxic. I think either Pokemon would fit better over Forretress, as both provide a bulky Water-type, but I would advocate your using Starmie for this team because I think the Speed is a huge boon, and the ability to outright OHKO Gengar is pretty nifty. Additionally, you have Choice Band Tyranitar, so opposing Jellicent are really not too big of a problem. Many players you'll face are daring enough to keep their Jellicent in and fish for a Scald burn, so you can get rid of them straight away by simply going for the Crunch. The Starmie set I'd use runs Leftovers, a spread of 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe, a Timid nature, and a moveset of Scald / Psyshock / Recover / Rapid Spin.

    The biggest problem with this change is that you lose your Spiker and you gain another Water / Psychic type Pokemon. However, you can remedy both of these by simply changing out Slowbro for Skarmory. Skarmory provides another physically-bulky wall that can sponge hits, while it also has the ability to set up Spikes and phaze out the opponent. You also get a good switch-in to most Dragon-types, so the change doesn't really sacrifice any of your defensive potential. I'd run Leftovers, a spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe, an Impish nature, and a moveset of Brave Bird / Spikes / Whirlwind / Roost. You can creep the Speed a bit, though, so that you don't have to fear a Stone Edge onslaught from opposing Choice Band Tyranitar, though you already have Hippowdon, so I doubt that's an issue.

    If you feel like you aren't having any Terrakion or Landorus-T problems after you've made these changes, you can always experiment by trying either specially defensive Hippowdon or specially defensive Skarmory (but preferably not both) and physically defensive Celebi with Hidden Power Ice. However, that's all up to preference. I'd probably try Toxic over Thunder Wave on Zapdos to hit Thundurus-T, Ninetales, Politoed, and all the other Pokemon that fear status, though if you like Thunder Wave then by all means stick to it. Not much else to say since this is a solid team. Good luck, I hope I helped.
  19. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Thank you very much for your advice, I'll try the changes you say to make changes, C Ya.
  20. King

    King

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hey Shake! Nice Stall team you got here. There aren't many things that I could change with it, but I did notice one thing. Starmie can spin easily on your team, and even though you are using CB Tar, I think I can come up with a better solution.

    Try Changing your CB tar to a Standard Choice Scarf Tyranitar . Overall, I think it'll give you a team advantage against things like Starmie hail or something like that. Your team looks really solid however, and you do not have to take my advice. But, I feel it will help you, so feel free to give it a try!
  21. Shake

    Shake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
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    Hey thank you, a few friends recommended me the Scarf Nitar and now so do you, makes the change to see how goes.

    Updated
  22. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,536
    This team's pretty great, but i've got a suggestion, or rather two: Skarmory>Slowbro, then Starmie>Forretress. Why? Well, i find that forretress is stupidly easy to spinblock, and scarftar doesn't totally fix that, especially since most gengars carry substitute. A good stall team with a spinblocker can easily just WoW scarftar, even if you volt switch into it, and then proceed to wear down forretress.

    This change basically gives you a spinner, a spiker, and a physical wall. While you lose the utility of having 2 physical walls, you gain a faster pokemon with the ability to take care of CM keldeo, which gives your team trouble, and a reliable rapid spinner.

    Overall these are minor changes, still a good team either way
  23. Shake

    Shake

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    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    thanks for the advice, mmm in minutes makes the changes.
  24. Shake

    Shake

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    Aug 28, 2012
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    Updated, big Changes.
  25. Frog

    Frog

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
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    you can't handle TR reuniclus or volcarona. A SpD dragonite over ttar is probably your best bet.

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