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Doubles Trick Room Behemoths

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by youngjake93, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. youngjake93


    Sep 3, 2012
    This team started when I decided that Last Resort was a cool move and I wanted to use it. I figured it would work better in doubles because I could aim at the Pokemon that didn't resist it and be just fine.

    Snorlax (F) @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Immunity
    EVs: 40 HP / 136 Atk / 200 Def / 132 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Curse
    - Last Resort

    I looked through the most powerful users and Snorlax became the first member of the team. The spread is a mixture of bulk and offense to function outside of Trick Room if need be and to get the first boost or two up safely. The bulk spread was made using Smogon's defenses calculator app to have perfect mixed defenses at +1. Last Resort @ +1 sweeps like a boss. I usually don't go +2 because I'd like to attack as much as possible while Trick Room is up and Snorlax mostly OHKOs anyway. I used Silk Scarf to get that extra power and Immunity because Toxic is more threatening on this bulky guy than Heat Wave or Blizzard(especially because I put Heatran+Chandelure+Slowbro on the team).

    Chandelure (F) @ Passho Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Heat Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball

    I figured Curselax would appreciate some Trick Room support. I also wanted to find something that could get through Ghost and Steel Types. Chandelure had perfect synergy with Snorlax! Heat Wave is a good spread move to spam, hit steels and destroy sun/hail teams. Shadow Ball is pretty powerful with 145 sAtt and boosting nature. It puts the hurting on Psychic and Ghost types. Energy Ball hurts bulky water types and rock types. Passho Berry is to set up Trick Room in the face of Surf/Muddy Water spam and then retaliate with Energy Ball.

    Hitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Fake Out
    - Wide Guard
    - Mach Punch
    - Close Combat

    Hitmontop is the only standard set I'm using. Well, except that I'm running Brave over Adamant. Fake Out lets me set up Trick Room easier, get around checks/counters and break sashes. Wide Guard beats teams that hope their spread move spamming will help keep up against my team's pulverizing. Mach Punch finishes things off and is a reliable attack to use if Trick Room isn't up and I want Hitmontop to die that turn for a clean switch-in to something else. Close Combat+Fighting Gem is there to just hurt something bad. I like to lead with Hitmontop on this team and nearly every team, but of course I look for good match ups at lead too.

    Whimsicott (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Trick Room
    - Leech Seed
    - Cotton Guard
    - Helping Hand

    So, I needed a foolproof setter. I had to use Whimsicott. This guy can stick around for quite a long time. I figured the best way for that was a sDef set with Cotton Guard+Leech Seed! Dual Leech Seeding is amazing. The last moveslot went to Helping Hand to make the most of Whimsicott's longevity by powering up my sweepers. Lum Berry is there to avoid Toxic/Thunder Wave/random Burns.

    Heatran (M) @ Charcoal
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    - Eruption
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect

    I needed a true Trick Room abuser with a reliable spread move. I remembered that Jellicent could do that with Water Spout, but I wanted real power not base 85. EruptionTran gets 135 sAtt! Combine that with a helping hand boost and watch the opponent cry. Earth Power is for rain teams, fire types outside of sun, opposing heatran and stuff like that. Stealth Rock is sort of filler and might possibly get the boot for Dragon Pulse, but it does help sometimes. This is my only Pokemon with Protect and it definitely comes in handy against Surf, Close Combat and EQ especially when Trick Room is down. It also stalls the turn where I set Trick Room up so that I can sweep with 100% HP+Eruption.

    Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Heal Pulse
    - Brine
    - Flamethrower

    My last slot had to go to another Trick Room setter. One with longevity and could function in many scenarios. Slowbro fit this perfectly. It resists the spam moves from Hail+Sun+Rain. Brine is boosted in rain and Flamethrower is boosted in Sun. Flamethrower is also super effective against hail and half of sun teams while Brine is super effective against sand teams. I picked those two attacks because Slowbro is only going to want to attack to finish off low HP Pokemon. So I needed perfect accuracy and Brine conveniently doubles in power when the opponent is under half. Regenerator and nice defensive stats keep Slowbro healthy throughout most of the game. However, the BEST part about Slowbro is Heal Pulse&30 base speed. Under Trick Room, it is outspeeding any abuser with respectable power and can Heal Pulse teammates that are on the brink of death. It also conveniently keeps Eruption at max power.
  2. Trickr00m


    Oct 26, 2012
    Only a small nitpick.

    Running adamant and 16 speed Evs lets you speed creep 0 speed hitmontops and fake out them before they get you, and you won't be missing out on much when all your moves are priority save CC which will probably still be okay as hitmontop is till quite slow and will be moving first/second in TR anyway.
  3. DoesntKnowHowToPlay


    Dec 9, 2011
    I really don't understand what your Whimsicott is supposed to be doing- its Trick Room is far from foolproof thanks to the puffball's mediocre defenses, its general reputation for being Taunt-weak, its wide array of weaknesses, and your complete lack of Follow Me support. Cotton Guard isn't going to accomplish much other than to make the opponent focus fire on its partner once they realize how useless it's being- ditto for Leech Seed. I would drop both, one for Taunt (or Encore if you prefer), and the other for Sunny Day. Currently half of your team is severely hampered by Rain- Chandelure has to rely on Shadow Ball, Heatran can no longer effectively use Eruption, and Slowbro has to rely on Brine, which many Rain mons will resist or ignore due to Storm Drain. Sunny Day not only helps deal with this, it also makes Heatran's Eruptions much more devastating.
  4. tlyee61


    Sep 25, 2010
  5. everybody


    Mar 23, 2013
    Ooh.. You might need to watch out for 252hp/252spdef imprison mismagius. It might ruin your team.
  6. StarmanXL


    Jul 1, 2007
    Ok, so, I'm sorry to say but this team looks like it has a lot of problems. The inherent strategy seems very gimmicky and you make a lot of questionable move and ability choices. I played with this team some and had a frustrating time using it due to the amount of times I should have been able to take out opposing pokemon but could not due to the movesets. That said, I'll go over what changes I think you should make, although it probably will be a more preliminary type thing.

    Firstly, Snorlax. I don't know what you're going for here, as Normal is a terrible, terrible, terrible type to be locked into mono attacking. It may be powerful, but ghosts really fuck you up, especially Dusclops, Sableye, and Chandelure which show up a lot on opposing TR teams (maybe not so much Chandy since you have Heatran but still). Ferrothorn also won't give a shit and will just leech seed you while you kill yourself to Iron Barbs damage. It also takes two turns just to start attacking any time Lax comes out, which is likewise bad.

    Honestly, if you want a pokemon to sweep teams, this isn't it. I would highly recommend a different physical attacker with a more immediate and harder to wall offensive presence, such as Conkeldurr, but if you insist on using Snorlax then actually give it some moves. Drop Last Resort, replace it with Return, add in Fire Punch so steels don't walk all over you and Crunch so you can do something against ghosts. You might consider Life Orb over Silk Scarf for more power (since you have heal pulse support it might work, but tbh heal pulse will probably have to go). Also fire and ice moves show up far more frequently than toxic. You shouldn't even be in that many turns for Toxic to really wear you down, whereas taking a V Create or Eruption or whatever to the face hurts.

    Next up, Chandelure. First things first, change Flame Body to Flash Fire. The only connecting moves that will hit Chandy are Sucker Punch, Outrage, and Crunch, really, and Chandelure will not survive the last two. The minimal burn chance is just not good enough to justify giving up an immunity that powers up your STAB move.

    Ok...so, with that out of the way, Chandelure seems pretty standard, and probably your best set up for TR first turn due to Fake Out immunity. I'd recommend dropping Passho Berry for perhaps Focus Sash but probably life orb or something--most faster things try to kill Chandy with ground attacks, such as heatran and garchump and Lando etc. Also consider protect over energy ball. Energy ball does help with the likes of Gastrodon and such but they'll probably kill Chandy before it can kill them--maybe have some sort of other backup to deal with rain?

    Hitmontop's pretty standard, don't got much to say. You could always try playing around with Scrafty instead if you really wanna kill ghosts while keeping your fake out and your intimidate support. Slower than Hitmontop as well, with more staying power, although not as strong.

    Whimsicott...ok, I don't mean to be a dick here, but I have zero idea what Whimsicott is supposed to accomplish. Like, seriously, what does it do? It can't TR faster than any other pokemon, it poses no really support presence outside of helping hand which a ton of other pokemon can do, having three trick roomers is completely redundant, and overall it just doesn't do anything. It's nothing but taunt bait--hell, it's not even running Taunt, which is one of the best moves a Whimsicott can run. It is far from a foolproof setter, and Ferrothorn would work way better for your team as a leech seeder due to its slow speed and powerful Gyro Ball and Power Whip. It's dead weight, plain and simple, and needs to be replaced. I'd recommend something that can avoid ground moves since your team does not take them well at all--Cress works if you like being able to use support but will leave you massively weak to ghost and dark, causing you to probably have to drop Chandy or Slowbro, but there's a lot of other stuff you could use in its place.

    Heatran is a cool mon. Great for TR teams. My only suggestions are to first change your item and secondly replace Stealth Rock. Heatran is an EQ magnet, so I suggest Shuca Berry over Charcoal. It will allow you to live some of those SE attacks and still strike back, and you probably won't notice the reduction in power. Secondly, I would suggest replacing Stealth Rock with Fire Blast or Heat Wave. Reason being, Stealth Rock just isn't all that great in doubles, and it won't rack you up enough damage to justify a turn and a moveslot. If you're deadset on using it, have some other pokemon set it up. In turn, Fire Blast will give you a reliable, powerful single target fire attack that you can roast enemies with when Heatran's hp gets low or you otherwise don't want to use Eruption; Heat Wave does the same but hits both enemies with less power. In either case, you won't be limited by HP for hard hitting fire attacks.

    For Slowbro, my first suggestion is to get rid of Brine. Brine sucks--it's weak, unreliable, and totally outclassed by Scald which not only has more BP but also has the handy secondary effect of burning foes.

    My second suggestion is to get Psyshock on there. It's a very good STAB move and will help you deal far better with rain teams, since you can hit a lot of water types for respectable neutral damage and get picks on Hitmontop, Conkeldurr, and Hitmontop. In addition, it's a more reliable way to deal with Amoongus because STAB you don't have to worry about rain screwing you over. Also gives you a way to damage dragons not named Latias or Latios. I would suggest putting it over Heal Pulse which is a bit clunky to use, but if you insist on keeping Heal Pulse then replace Flamethrower with it--you have plenty of fire attacks in Chandelure and Heatran anyway.

    Also, consider running Slowking over Slowbro, since Slowking benefits more from intimidate support, not to mention the metagame is a bit more specially oriented than physically. For item, use Sitrus Berry if you're going on the defensive for Slowbro or, if pure offense is your thing, try Life Orb, but it will require you to switch out more to use Regenerator.

    Overall, the team suffers from a lot of gimmicky sets and inefficient moves. Going for some more powerful and reliable movesets will be the first step to making this team a whole lot better. Hope some of this helped.

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