I have been trying out this tier and I must say it is very enjoyable. I'd like to share a few ideas/opinions:
I think Ferrothorn is probably the BEST Steel-type in the format (not to say others are bad, I simply think it is the most usable on almost any team). Since I have seen (basically just above me) that people argue it is tier 3, I will explain why I think it is good.
Firstly, while you argue Groudon-P beats it, if you have Heavy Rain from Kyogre-P out (which is a perfect partner for Ferro), Ferro beats Groudon-Primal in many 2 v 2 situations (252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 163-193 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) by using Tect + leftovers + Leech Seed, the very combo that makes it annoying as hell to beat. Sure, it takes a lot of damage from legendary moves, but it has key strengths such as helping in Ogre dittos (or just against opposing Kyogre on any team), being fairly difficult for Trick Room teams to combat (which makes it useful on the common Tailwind teams), and checking the mighty wizard Xerneas.
Additionally, it actually beats non-Overheat/V-create Rayquaza-M 1 v 1 if they are both at max since a Sash set will take Iron Barbs if it Dragon Ascents and:
200+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza: 309-364 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (after Iron Barbs you get a guaranteed OHKO with Gyro Ball if you use this investment)
That sort of investment should be fine given you should be running any remaining EVs in SpD given the physical bulk really isn't necessary to live any notable moves in the format (Khan Low Kick cannot OHKO a simple 252 HP spread and Fighting-types are not that common in the format). Add on that it checks Kyogre-Primal (who imo is underrated) and Xerneas and this should have no business being tier 3. I personally think it is a tier 1.5 mon, but it should at LEAST be tier 2. As far as I'm concerned it does what a Steel-type is supposed to do in the format, and having a Grass-type that doesn't die to the typical Mega Ray set is amazing. Like why even is Arceus-Steel in tier 1.5 and Ferro in tier 3 when the one thing Steels are here for is OP Xern, and Ferrothorn beats it and another big threat in Kyogre-P? Also keep in mind if I use Ferro instead of Arceus-Steel, I can use another Arceus form that is better such as Arceus-Ghost (which I agree with
The Cheesen One in that it should be tier 1.5) or just normal EKiller Arceus. At this point if you still disagree that it should be higher you either haven't used it or don't know how to use it. As for consistency, there is literally no reason to not use Xerneas in the metagame, meaning even if it isn't spectacularly splendid when Xern isn't around, it is well worth being there simply because you don't have to worry about Xerneas nearly as much. In practice, it does fine against teams w/o Xern or Kyogre as well, being a switch in to many physical attackers (including MKhan which is the second most common Mega), and being amazing late game against almost any team due to Leech Seed stalling.
Speaking of Arceus forms, Arceus-Ground is great for dealing heavy damage Groudon-P and many Steel-types. Here is a set that I am using:
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: Max SpA and you can invest in bulk + speed however you wish
Modest Nature
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Protect
Some calcs to go with this monster:
252+ SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 444-524 (109.9 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (OHKOes up to 252 HP 88 SpD investment 100% of the time)
252+ SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 226-268 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if Ray uses Dragon Ascent and is at -1 you OHKO 81.3% of the time)
252+ SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 288-338 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 348-410 (78.3 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Honestly you have a Pokemon that beats Primal Groudon, obliterates Steel-types, and has Tailwind support. This thing is a GREAT partner for Xerneas, Primal Kyogre teams, and others. Not to mention Ground + Ice coverage is well known for being excellent.
You can also run Gravity over Tailwind if that is your cup of tea, which means Ho-oh is no longer safe (and it is otherwise the safest switch in), and if you do, Blizzard is an option over Ice Beam.
Other less large opinions/ideas:
- Kyogre-Primal should be tier 1, while I understand the issues of it in VGC due to the limited "Uber" slots, there is no such thing here, and it hits like a truck full of 50 tons of TNT
- Yveltal should be tier 1.5 since it has Dark Aura friggin Foul Play and by far the strongest Sucker Punch in the game. Also has Tailwind and Oblivion Wing heals mad amounts of damage.
- I agree Latios should be tier 2 because max HP Groudon-P lives Draco Meteor, Rayquaza-M beats it 1 vs 1, and it flat out loses to Xerneas, who imo is the closest thing to "tier 0" that this format possesses. I know Soul Dew is a wonderful item, but it is definitely over-hyped here. Additionally, Yveltal can perform the hard hitting Tailwind support role better than Latios imo due to Flying / Dark being a better typing and it having Oblivion Wing which can extend its longevity.
- I do not think Salamence-Mega is better than MRay simply because there aren't limited slots in this metagame like in VGC 16, where using a Mega and an "Uber" slot simultaneously is simply very limiting towards your team's strength. This being said, it still can perform the VGC '16 role of being a Ray check (watch out for Sash however) in this metagame.
- The Cheesen One I think you should try Safeguard + Swagger Meowstic on your team over the meowstic you have, given it protects you from status moves and allows you to Swagger your Groudon-P or Mega Khan if given the opportunity which is very nice. I also am curious as to why you picked Arceus-Dragon to be the Arceus form (it just seems to me like using a Psych Up mon that doesn't struggle against opposing Xerneas would be a more logical option).
This is all I have really observed for now, will continue to investigate this metagame in the future :)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesubers-262993041
