Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)

Haruno

Skadi :)
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Mew A rank.

Solid 100/100/100 bulk with access to a wide plethora of moves such as fake out, wow, transform, tailwind among many others makes it a solid support mon that has both versatility and unpredictability that is able to fulfill multiple roles. Arguably outclassed by the bulkier S rank 120/120/130 cresselia as a support mon, mew has options that let it fulfill roles that cress can't and unlike musharna it isn't garbdix.

Also transform mew is the sexiest thing alive.

Is not nomming mew because it's overpowered with the support provided by bunny rampage
 

Anty

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Nominating Gardevior A rank (b4 any1 says anything, i cant nom for sub ranks instantly)
Mega gardevior is one of the strongest hitting mons in the meta now and consistently performs every game. STAB pixilate hyper voices pretty much 2hko the entire unresisted meta combined STAB psyshock for poison types and focus blast for steels (apart from aegi). It also has an amazing support movepool; dual screens, healing wish, taunt, willowisp, encore. Encore screws over wide guarding aegi and is overall an amazing move in dubs whilst willowisp dodges sucker punches and is nice for mega scizor switch ins. With tailwind support it is one of the biggest pains for offensive teams, as it isnt hard to have a partner who hits steel types (esp aegi). On tailwind it can run modest nature, increasing its stupidly high spatk.

Its hard to compare it with mons in higher ranks, but it is much better than sylveon (also b+), which with specs only hits a bit harder, but lacks a secondary typing to get past amoongus, good movepool and speed.
Its much better than some of the a- mons anyway (dont see how conk is on the same level as scrafty or top)
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Cresselia for A rank

Simply put, no way in hell is this thing S ranked. It suffers from a lack of reliable recovery and from being setup bait. Its team support options and bulk are still impressive, but not enough to carry it in an metagame so offensive and full of dangerous boosting presences.

this would leave S rank as Landorus-T, Kangaskhan, and Charizard, which seems appropriate to me.
 
this would leave S rank as Landorus-T, Kangaskhan, and Charizard, which seems appropriate to me.
Tbch, I don't see Charizard as an S Rank threat either, as its weakness to Rock Slide just hurts it so much, and it relies on sun to actually hit hard, making matchups vs rain (and sand even) very difficult as well (so long as the rain player doesn't lead with his rain mode which is an incredibly horrible idea). Additionally, Heatran, Rotom-H, and Dragons can really laugh at it, and wasting a slot on coverage means something else gives it problems (no Fire Blast = Wide Guard issues; no Heat Wave = tons of issues; no Solarbeam = bulky Water issues; no Protect = lol). I have never had a battle where I felt Charizard was a threat I couldn't handle. Overall, I think we can all agree Charizard is by no means diverse enough or powerful enough to merit an S ranking. I'd say A+ seems appropriate for now.

May I just say I don't care that two of these opinions counteract the two things that just happened; I'm mentioning them anyway and you can deal with it imo :]

Heatran I can actually see being S Rank, as Substitute can be a big issue, while Eruption can constantly chip away at switch ins. Heck, we are even seeing AncientPower and HP Ice sets from time to time (though I feel those are far less effective than the two listed above). I've actually been trying an unexpectedly fast Eruption Heatran with Tailwind support and its been doing work, so the Eruption variant doesn't even need Trick Room to function. Combine this with its amazing typing (9 resistances and 2 immunties), and I definitely think that while it can be countered (just like Khan and Lando-T can), its raw power and bulk definitely merit it a spot among the best. I mean, the fact when teambuilding you typical find yourself running 2 or more OHKO options to beat it speaks for itself.

Keldeo should 100% be A+ rank. Keldeo can hit Lando-T, a HUGE difference in comparison to its cousin Terrakion (and the reason I think Keldeo is better than Terrakion), and one that makes it much more dangerous to a lot of teams. It also shares Terrakion's access to Quick Guard, Taunt, and Safeguard, while also having Icy Wind as another tool to work with. There is no other Pokemon that does what it does, and it does what it does incredibly well, which fits it into A+ p well. A at the least imo.

Hydreigon to A- (or A), it is like Latios but with very nice resistances to Dark and Ghost, two very common attacking types. Being able to beat Bisharp is a very notable role it has over Latios, and it can also tank a Khan Return which Latios can go cry about. A nice STAB Dark Pulse really helps against Aegislash who is a common threat (and Substitute sets can be very hard to work around. You can go and say "Bisharp handles Aegi better, but Bisharp does not do nearly as well vs sun or rain, doesn't have the option of running TW, and can't reliably OHKO Heatran (unless CB Low Kick lol) and most certainly cannot fire off Draco Meteors that have a very low number of solid switch ins. Hydreigon has cemented its own niche in the metagame and most certainly should be in A- at least.

Escavalier to B+ (or A-), it is a Trick Room god, and can work well on rain teams as well. Scizor may seem like that better choice, but Escavalier hits way harder with its Megahorn and packs a nice Drill Run to dispose of Heatran. It even has Quick Guard if you for some reason are scared of Fake Outs from Iron Ball Hitmontop. It also shares Scizor's gift of only one weakness and a lot of resistances (i.e. it has perfect synergy w/ Heatran be scared).

Thundurus-Therian to A-, while normal Thundurus may seem better, its therian forme is an amazing Scarfer and check to Scarf Lando-T. Additionally, Thundurus-T packs a helpful Electric immunity, and works very well on rain teams due to its extremely strong Thunder. Thundy-I may have the Prankster TWaves, but Thundy-T has the juiciest Thunderbolts. I essentially believe A- is the right place as Thundy-T plays a Scarfer role extremely well, while also having some less notable roles (LO attacker; Specs absurdness) that it can also fill pretty well.

Some honorable mentions (things I can see being moved but am not yet convinced the change in rankings are deserved for them)
Jellicent to B+, Gourgeist-S to B+, Lucario to A-, Aromatisse to B-, Liepard to B, Blastoise to B, Vivillion to B, Chandelure to A-, Ludicolo to A, Garchomp to A-, Politoed to A, Magikarp to S
 
I agree that Mega Zard Y is very prepared for in this meta, but Zard X + Zard's overall versatility still warrants a spot in S imo. Looking at your noms idk why Heatran would be in a higher spot than Zard tho. I also disagree with Keldeo as its physical bulk is butt, several threats hard wall it's offensive coverage, and it has no spread moves. Everything else seems reasonable tho.

Cress should be in A+ though fo sho. It needs to find a balance between utility and offensive pressure, and it is exploitable if it leans too far in either direction.
 
Just because Mizuhime successfully built and then beat Pocket with a Poliwag team once doesn't mean Poliwag is as good as any of the Pokemon listed
poliwag isn't good but i want just to say that in double teams can be of any genre..players must not use 6 A+ rank pokemons to build a strong team..i have beaten strong players with pokemons that aren't in the list not because i'm the God but just because double is a fantastic tier where the combinations of pokemons and actions to use are infinite.. players have to use them in the right way
 
Thundurus A+ -> S: Thundurus is in my opinion great in Doubles, it can support ur team easily with moves like Prankster-twave, swagger, sub and taunt and has amazing coverage with boltbeam (beats for example threeats like non-scarf lando-t, chomp and mence, megazard-y, togekiss and politoed). Its just an amazing pokemon and 10000000000x better than stuff like cresselia which is a nice teamsupporter, but has no offensive presence at all.
 
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Stratos

Banned deucer.
poliwag isn't good but i want just to say that in double teams can be of any genre..players must not use 6 A+ rank pokemons to build a strong team..i have beaten strong players with pokemons that aren't in the list not because i'm the God but just because double is a fantastic tier where the combinations of pokemons and actions to use are infinite.. players have to use them in the right way
Yes, most Pokemon can fit perfectly in a role on certain given teams. Look at 2014 Worlds. Sejun won with a Pachirisu, and Jeudy was running Rotom-C. Neither of these Pokemon were really expected. I and most everyone here have built successful teams with Pokemon from the B- rank and above, and some of the more inventive teambuilders (Mizuhime, Level 51, Audiosurfer) dip into the lower ranks regularly. The point of viability ranks is basically to say, the higher a Pokemon is on this ranking, the more teams it's going to be the perfect fit for.
 

Arcticblast

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poliwag isn't good but i want just to say that in double teams can be of any genre..players must not use 6 A+ rank pokemons to build a strong team..i have beaten strong players with pokemons that aren't in the list not because i'm the God but just because double is a fantastic tier where the combinations of pokemons and actions to use are infinite.. players have to use them in the right way
Obviously you can make just about any Pokemon work (Mizu and Poliwag, Level 51 and literally all of his teams) but that doesn't change the fact that some Pokemon are objectively better choices than others. The point of the viability rankings is to rank these Pokemon as objectively as possible as a resource for newer players - it gives them a feel of what Pokemon they should expect to see beyond the lowest levels of play and also gives them a "good Pokemon" list to use as a minor teambuilding resource. It's also a fairly effective threatlist - I've used it to find a few weaknesses in teams myself.

Also Pwnemon sucks and posted while I was posting smfh
 

Mizuhime

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all pokemons have the same rank.. just use them in the right way
poliwag isn't good but
You've missed the point of a Viability thread completely. A Viability thread is nothing more than good resource for people starting the tier, doesn't matter if they're experienced Pokemon players already, or completely new to the game. Pokemon are put into different ranks depending on how they play. Some Pokemon like my Poliwag for example, need much more support than a Pokemon like Landorus-t, who literally needs something to eat an Ice-type attack and nothing more. The Poliwag need the power backed by a Belly Drum, a Togekiss using Follow Me, a Amoonguss using Rage Powder, Politoed to set Rain and finally a Kingdra to weaken things because Poliwag still can't ohko some stuff @ +6 with Rain boosted attacks. So of course, by the Viability thread, Poliwag would be E rank, meaning to new players they shouldn't use it. It simply needs to much support to properly function in the meta. A lot of Pokemon just can't be slapped on a team and succeed, they often need something weakened or need too much help to be able to do something. Where as some Pokemon like Thundurus-I, Landorus-T and other S rank Pokemon do their job with very little effort and need little to no support.

Of course creative team builders like Sejun, Level-51, Lady Bug and myself are a dime a dozen. I feel bad putting myself in the same group as Sejun and Lady Bug.. But People that can find Pokemon with such extreme niches are extremely rare, and they're even more rare if they can do it in a tournament setting and find continued success. The Pokemon they often use will never be considered good despite the things they do with them. people will try to use Pachirisu now, and fail miserably. It takes a special mind to literally any Pokemon they want work at the highest level of play.

I guess a tl;dr for those too lazy to read, A viability thread is just a suggestion on what you should use
 
it is difficult for me to understand everything that you have written for my gaps in English..but in my opinion new players must not start the tier seeing a list(which is in my opinion really bad).. players must build their team using their own ideas and start playing to know the dynamics of the fights in double..the perfect team doesn't exist..i think teambuilding is the last thing which allowed you to win in double tier..these are my opinions..i'm not saying this is law!!
 

Darkmalice

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it is difficult for me to understand everything that you have written for my gaps in English..but in my opinion new players must not start the tier seeing a list(which is in my opinion really bad).. players must build their team using their own ideas and start playing to know the dynamics of the fights in double..the perfect team doesn't exist..i think teambuilding is the last thing which allowed you to win in double tier..these are my opinions..i'm not saying this is law!!
Generally when players take your approach, they create a horrendous team fill of gimmicks that is non-viable in high-level or even moderate-level play (Malamar is a common example). New players are generally much better off seeing a list so they get an idea of what's good/easy to use and what's not, so when they create their first teams, they're not so bad - and if they want to improve their team, they can at least work off their original team instead of having to throw away a team of 6 gimmicks.

Teambuilding is actually very important - a crap team will always suck. The difference being at high-level play, all the teams are well built, so skill has a more decisive role.

And of course there's no perfect team. If there was, everyone would be using it.

Btw all of this applies not just for doubles but for every Pokemon metagame.
 
Generally when players take your approach, they create a horrendous team fill of gimmicks that is non-viable in high-level or even moderate-level play (Malamar is a common example). New players are generally much better off seeing a list so they get an idea of what's good/easy to use and what's not, so when they create their first teams, they're not so bad - and if they want to improve their team, they can at least work off their original team instead of having to throw away a team of 6 gimmicks.

Teambuilding is actually very important - a crap team will always suck. The difference being at high-level play, all the teams are well built, so skill has a more decisive role.

And of course there's no perfect team. If there was, everyone would be using it.

Btw all of this applies not just for doubles but for every Pokemon metagame.
i'm not agree but if teambuilding is so important tell me where i can learn how to build a solid team..a thread about team building is surely better than a wrong list of pokemons
 

Anty

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i'm not agree but if teambuilding is so important tell me where i can learn how to build a solid team..a thread about team building is surely better than a wrong list of pokemons
You can build good teams with stuff like lapras and kingler because you are a good player and with experience from watching/playing you, you are a good team builder. (this applies to most good players)

When i first got into doubles i used an incredibly standard kanga team (all a-rank+), but only by using such a team i got good experience from battling a lot on the ladder and against good doubles players in the chat. If i started with 'meh' pokemon like parasect, when i was new, i would have barely got passed 1300 elo. Using the best mons and beating good players also builds up confidence (especcially if you do it when your new).

It is also hard to say something like florges is viable because it is completely outclassed by sylveon, who is stronger, a tad bulkier and has a better spread move. As much as i would like to use wormadam in a competitive team, i know that it is pretty much outclassed and will never be the best choice.
 

Darkmalice

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i'm not agree but if teambuilding is so important tell me where i can learn how to build a solid team..a thread about team building is surely better than a wrong list of pokemons
Not sure if there is a thread specifically on team building, but here is one about similarities in teams and how that relates to team building. This post in that thread, in particular, highlights how to build an example team (sun in this case).

Team building is difficult to do well. A list of more viable Pokemon still helps, as it's easier to build a good team with more-viable Pokemon than not-so-viable Pokemon
 

Mizuhime

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Battling 101 is a place for new players to get help from Expieriened players when it comes to anything related to battling (team building as well).
 
Rising from B to A-
It can hit at least 40% of the meta for Super Effective damage only with his STABs, the only pokemon that resists it is Rotom-W.
The Sash set can reliably kill somethings that would rely on speed to destroq mamo with Ice Shard, and the Scarf set is an awesome revenge killer due to its unresisted coverage with Superpower.
130 attack is fucking boss.
WHOEVER he's frail as shit and slow as fuck. And if he can't OHKO a mon, there's a very high chance that he'll get boned. His weaknesses are also very common, which doensn't help. Still a very good mon that can destroy almost half the meta.

Rising from B to A-
Insane attack, insane speed, very wide movepool, intimidate, nice bulk, not the best but nice bulk.
Until it gets hit by an ice/rock/dragon move and dies.
Also getting cool as mega that will be ubers in OU next gen.

Rising from B to A-
Insane special movepool, it can bone so much stuff. His offensive stats are not bad either (Not bad = awesome), same goes for bulk (not that awesome but usable). A scarf set is great lure for Lando-T and stuff, and it can also keep switching in Electric attacks. Really good mon for Rain teams. The only bad side that I can think of is the bulk and the ability not to change moves.
 

Laga

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all of those are definitely not deserving of higher than B+

Mamoswine and Salamence both live in the shadow of Landorus-T, and are therefore unimpressive; Salamence is definitely the better one of these two, since it usually runs a special attacking set, which sets Tailwind very reliably. I'd probably go with mence in B+ and mamoswine just to stay in B. Also to add to the Mamo hate, base 80 Speed is a super awkward position for a Pokemon that essentially needs to run Life Orb (can't run Sash efficiently like Loom the Spore spammer).

Thundurus-T is another Pokemon that is very much beneath one of the stars in Doubles, which is Thundurus-I. Thundurus-T's bulk is near unusable, it's as simple as that, but Thundurus is generally seen as better since it can attack viably whilst also supporting with Prankster Thunder Wave / Taunt. While Thundurus-T does hit notably harder, it doesn't even come close to the versatility that Thundurus can pack (Thundurus-I can run both offensive and bulky, and both of the sets can support the team whilst dealing damage).

Also for perspective: Sylveon, Ferrothorn, and Rotom-H are all notably more viable than pretty much all three of those Pokemon (mence comes close though)


With that I would like to nominate Hitmontop for B, and if possible, I'd like to nominate Scrafty for B again, since a lot of the reason people disagreed last time, was that they thought it was a slightly better Hitmontop. Will-o-Wisp is flipping everywhere right now, and these two Pokemon are straight up turned into free turns once burned. Aside from still being able to Intimidate + Fake Out, that combination of ability + move is ridiculously easy to just switch out from properly and you can then completely shift the momentum in your favour.

Seriously, these Pokemon are pathetic when burned
136+ Atk burned Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Rotom-W: 71-84 (23.3 - 27.6%)
136+ Atk burned Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 171-202 (52.7 - 62.3%)

-1 224 Atk burned Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 90-108 (28.1 - 33.7%) - this is fucking ridiculous
224 Atk burned Scrafty Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 218-258 (73.4 - 86.8%)
224 Atk burned Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 145-172 (48 - 56.9%) - this is STAB SE, and doesn't even 2HKO

Basically both of them are weak as shit, Scrafty doesn't even Wide Guard, so it's COMPLETELY useless when burned, and when burned, they generally fail to do what wins battles aka deal damage.

tl;dr, these mons are not A rank material in a metagame where even Talonflame runs Will-o-Wisp. Also Knock Off Scrafty is overrated, that move succeeds best of anything at Stallbreaking, which is irrelevant in Doubles.



edit: I also have a large announcement to make

EVERYONE FROM PS STOP USING SCALD KELDEO, IT'S SO TERRIBLE
and I didn't even get burned by it yet
 

Darkmalice

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Seriously, these Pokemon are pathetic when burned
Then don't let them get burnt. Fake Out, partner support, or switch out

Also, Scrafty avoided B rank by a landslide less than a month ago. It wouldn't be fair to test it again. At least wait till after Hitmontop is tested again if your argument for dropping it now is indeed people think it's a better Hitmontop (this argument is invalid if Hitmontop remains in A rank)

Will-O-Wisp has been very common for a while including when WoW Mega Gengar was on the rise (and it's dropped done again). Burn should not be such a big argument to drop a Pokemon an entire rank. We've got subranks for stuff like that.
 

Laga

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Then don't let them get burnt. Fake Out, partner support, or switch out

Also, Scrafty avoided B rank by a landslide less than a month ago. It wouldn't be fair to test it again. At least wait till after Hitmontop is tested again if your argument for dropping it now is indeed people think it's a better Hitmontop (this argument is invalid if Hitmontop remains in A rank)

Will-O-Wisp has been very common for a while including when WoW Mega Gengar was on the rise (and it's dropped done again). Burn should not be such a big argument to drop a Pokemon an entire rank. We've got subranks for stuff like that.
burning Pokemon is a large metagame trend, and this entire thread is based off of classifying metagame trends. I said "if possible" when nominating Scrafty, knowing that I already nominated Scrafty alone. Back then I took Scrafty dropping as a given, so I did not expand on why it should drop...

I'd be completely fine with Hitmontop dropping first, but Intimidate + Fake Out is just not near what it used to be, now that people have realised switching properly is vital to win games. Back in gen 5, even top players where saying that switching was very uncommon making Intimidate and Fake Out ridiculously good, but nowadays you see an average of just about over one switch per turn, which means that

1) Intimidate + Fake Out is weaker now that switching is aided by the general metagame trend. Fake Out on Kanga is still amazing since switching into it is very risky.
2) Weak physical attacks are even worse now that WoW is a HUGE metagame trend.

As a side note, you are straight up kidding yourself if you don't think Hitmontop and Scrafty are just each other with individual merits (Wide Guard + beats Fighting-types vs beating Psychic-types and removing items)

later edit: tl;dr Intimidate + Fake Out is overrated, and burn is everywhere
 
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Audiosurfer

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burning Pokemon is a large metagame trend, and this entire thread is based off of classifying metagame trends. I said "if possible" when nominating Scrafty, knowing that I already nominated Scrafty alone. Back then I took Scrafty dropping as a given, so I did not expand on why it should drop...

I'd be completely fine with Hitmontop dropping first, but Intimidate + Fake Out is just not near what it used to be, now that people have realised switching properly is vital to win games. Back in gen 5, even top players where saying that switching was very uncommon making Intimidate and Fake Out ridiculously good, but nowadays you see an average of just about over one switch per turn, which means that

1) Intimidate + Fake Out is weaker now that switching is a large metagame trend. Fake Out on Kanga is still amazing since switching into it is very risky.
2) Weak physical attacks are even worse now that WoW is a HUGE metagame trend.

As a side note, you are straight up kidding yourself if you don't think Hitmontop and Scrafty are just each other with individual merits (Wide Guard + beats Fighting-types vs beating Psychic-types and removing items)
Ok i disagree with this post so I'll say why here:

On point #1:
  • The assertion that Intimidate + Fake Out is somehow worse now because "people switch more" is flawed for a few reasons. One, I don't think there's any evidence to support the fact that more switches are taking place in games than there were last gen. The only reason it might seem that way is simply because as the metagame matures, the battling ability people who constitute the tier's top battlers has been improving, so any increase in skillful switching that you're noticing is likely just a result of that, and so it doesn't really constitute a "metagame trend".
  • But even assuming that in general more switches take place in the average game, that's not really a knock on Fake Out at all. The main purpose of Fake Out is to render a Pokemon unusable for a turn, so whether they protect, switch out, or get flinched, they're still ceding momentum to you, which means that Fake Out is still doing its job effectively.
On point #2:
  • Will-O-Wisp isn't as popular as you're making it out to be, or at least it hasn't seen a shift in popularity compared to when Scrafty was last nominated that's great enough to justify it being used as a reason. I can barely think of any commonly used Will-O-Wispers beyond Rotom-W, Mega Gengar, and (to a lesser extent) Talonflame (Mega Gengar isn't even seen as much since the hype around WoW MegaGar died off).
  • Will-O-Wisp is also fairly easy to spot coming, so it isn't hard to take measures to spare your Scrafty from a burn (redirecting the burn, switching in something else, etc.).
  • You're really sorta missing the point of using Scrafty anyways. It's not because it excels in any one thing, but because of its great utility. It packs Fake Out & Intimidate while being bulky enough to be an effective pivot (especially with Assault Vest), being slow enough to act as a check to Trick Room (even better with the Psychic immunity), having useful coverage moves (Ice Punch, Stone Edge, etc.) and reasonable offensive presence (note, 90 Atk is nothing to write home about, but its damage output is reasonable, especially given that Knock Off makes it more annoying to take hits from). Sure, it's not going to be replacing Terrakion on a team anytime soon, but in terms of filling the aforementioned criteria, there's nothing else that can do it.
 

Laga

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alright I give up, guess I'll forever have to look at a viability ranking listing scrafty and hitmontop higher than rotom-h, sylveon, escavalier, and azumarill with tears in my eyes :]
 

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