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Doubles Doubles Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by Demantoid, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Demantoid

    Demantoid [10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong

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    Approved by cant say and hulavuta; format and some descriptions taken from noved's BSS Viability Rankings
    [​IMG] Battle Spot Doubles Viability Rankings[​IMG]
    Welcome to the Battle Spot Sun/Moon Doubles Viability Rankings thread. Here, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into ranks. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the Pokemon that are usable in the metagame and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank Pokemon based on their effectiveness in the Battle Spot Doubles metagame.


    S Rank
    S
    [​IMG] Landorus-T

    A Rank
    A+
    [​IMG] Aegislash
    [​IMG] Mega Charizard Y
    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Mega Salamence
    [​IMG] Tapu Koko
    [​IMG]Tapu Lele

    A
    [​IMG]Amoonguss
    [​IMG]Celesteela
    [​IMG]Cresselia
    [​IMG] Mega Kangaskhan
    [​IMG]Tapu Fini

    A-
    [​IMG] Mega Metagross
    [​IMG] Milotic
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T
    [​IMG]Zapdos

    B Rank
    B+
    [​IMG]Tapu Bulu
    [​IMG] Mega Gengar
    [​IMG]Pelipper
    [​IMG]Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]Tyranitar
    [​IMG]Azumarill
    [​IMG]Hydreigon
    [​IMG]Conkeldurr
    [​IMG]Volcarona
    [​IMG]Rotom-W
    [​IMG] Mega Mawile

    B
    [​IMG]Gastrodon[​IMG]
    [​IMG]Togekiss
    [​IMG]Suicune
    [​IMG]Arcanine
    [​IMG]Entei
    [​IMG]Ludicolo
    [​IMG]Bisharp
    [​IMG]Excadrill
    [​IMG]Kingdra
    [​IMG]Politoed
    [​IMG]Thundurus
    [​IMG]Terrakion
    [​IMG]Porygon2
    [​IMG] Mega Venusaur

    B-
    [​IMG]Nihilego
    [​IMG]Rotom-H
    [​IMG]Clefable
    [​IMG]Clefairy
    [​IMG]Kartana
    [​IMG]Torkoal
    [​IMG]Weavile
    [​IMG]Ninetales-A
    [​IMG]Araquanid
    [​IMG]Muk-A
    [​IMG]Marowak-A
    [​IMG]Bronzong
    [​IMG]Sylveon

    C Rank
    C+
    [​IMG]Oranguru
    [​IMG]Scrafty
    [​IMG]Breloom
    [​IMG]Virizion
    [​IMG]Gothitelle
    [​IMG]Garchomp
    [​IMG]Gyarados
    [​IMG]Mimikyu
    [​IMG]Blaziken
    [​IMG]Whimsicott
    [​IMG]Gigalith
    [​IMG]Snorlax
    [​IMG]Persian-A
    [​IMG]Porygon-Z
    [​IMG]Swampert

    C
    [​IMG] Mega Gyarados
    [​IMG]Mamoswine
    [​IMG]Vikavolt
    [​IMG]Drampa
    [​IMG]Xurkitree
    [​IMG]Crobat
    [​IMG]Aerodactyl
    [​IMG]Incineroar
    [​IMG]Mudsdale
    [​IMG]Hariyama
    [​IMG]Magnezone
    [​IMG] Mega Blastoise
    [​IMG]Latios
    [​IMG]Infernape
    [​IMG]Buzzwole
    [​IMG]Pheromosa
    [​IMG]Vanilluxe
    [​IMG]Greninja
    [​IMG]Eevee
    [​IMG]Raichu-A

    C-
    [​IMG]Cradily
    [​IMG]Jellicent
    [​IMG]Scizor
    [​IMG]Talonflame
    [​IMG]Salamence
    [​IMG]Krookodile
    [​IMG]Mandibuzz
    [​IMG]Sandslash-A
    [​IMG] Mega Lucario
    [​IMG]Salazzle
    [​IMG]Lilligant
    [​IMG]Cobalion
    [​IMG]Primarina
    [​IMG]Nidoqueen
    [​IMG]Nidoking

    D Rank
    Some examples of D Rank Pokemon:
    Wigglytuff
    Dewgong
    mishi is bad
    Flygon
    Decidueye
    Wishiwashi

    E Rank
    Some examples of E Rank Pokemon:

    Pikachu
    Spinda
    Lurantis
    Pyukumuku
    Rapidash
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  2. Demantoid

    Demantoid [10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong

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    Note that C- and C ranks from last generation's thread have basically been merged into D Rank and B ranks and C+ rank have been shifted down.

    1/26/17 Volcarona added to B+
    2/9/17 Bronzong added to B-
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  3. Kai1998

    Kai1998

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    I've been using a team of Char Y, Garchomp (tectonic rage), Aegi, Alolan Ninetales, Koko and Sylveon and it's been doing great for me. Currently ranked 4th in the US, I don't feel as though Garchomp deserves such a low ranking, it handles so many prominent threats in the meta. Why C+?
  4. Demantoid

    Demantoid [10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong

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    The only thing Garchomp does better than Landorus-T is check Charizard Y and Heatran better (which your team does seem to need). Garchomp isn't really a bad Pokemon but Landorus-T usually outclasses it.
  5. Kai1998

    Kai1998

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    Yeah I can definitely see that. I think it holds some value over Lando as a better z crystal user, but overall it certainly is outclassed by lando in most ways. That being said, C+ seems a bit harsh to me. I haven't ever posted on these forms before but I guess i nominate him for a higher ranking, probably in the B range? (if that's how this works)
  6. Test Bot #

    Test Bot #

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    I've noticed that Volcarona is not in the VR. As you all know it's quite strong with a boost from Quiver Dance, and can bring out a strong Inferno Overdrive (+1, +2, ...). Also, having Milotic around really supports its offensive presence; Milotic deters Landorus-T and Salamence-Mega from switching in because Icy Wind (boosted by Competitive) guarantees their elimination. I'd say that Volcarona should definitely be in "B" at minimum.
    Demantoid likes this.
  7. Kai1998

    Kai1998

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    He's B+
  8. Test Bot #

    Test Bot #

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    yeah, Demantoid put it up after i mentioned it.
    Demantoid likes this.
  9. ProjectTitan313

    ProjectTitan313

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    > Cobalion actually existing on a viability ranking.
    Gods what I done.

    A note for Garchomp though is that it can run Fire Blast to at least tickle physically bulky Celesteela, while Landog does literally fucking nothing except deter Heavy Slam (which Rough Skin also does to a degree). And it's not like Garchomp is using Dragon STAB much in our Steel/Fairy heavy meta so it kinda does have room for it. I find that basically anything you would want to Dragon Claw just beats the hell out of it anyway, ie Mence, Hydra (loves Scarf), Cress...
  10. Kai1998

    Kai1998

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    As a question, is Darkrai banned from doubles? If i remember correctly he is, but it seems silly to allow creselia and ban Darkrai
  11. cant say

    cant say
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    despite them being a "pair" within the game's lore; Darkrai is an event-only legend whereas Cresselia is catchable in nearly every game. Battle Spot bans event / mythical legends.
    Demantoid likes this.
  12. Test Bot #

    Test Bot #

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    Bronzong should be added to B-. It's most notable for its un-Taunt-able Z-TR, which also boosts its accuracy. This allows Brozong to spam Hypnosis and allow its teammates to do what they needs to do. Furthermore, Hypnosis is unlike Spore, so the only Sleep check an opposing team can bring is Tapu Koko or Tapu Fini. Bronzong is definitely impacting the meta, so add it to the VR.
    3heartschall and Demantoid like this.
  13. Demantoid

    Demantoid [10:43:28] #Mishiimono)⊙﹏⊙✿( kills a dewgong

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    Discuss the following possible changes

    Mega Kangaskhan B+ -> A
    Tapu Fini A- -> A
    Amoonguss A- -> A
    Sylveon B+ -> B-
    Mimikyu C- -> C+
    Mega Mawile UR -> B+
    Rotom-W A- -> B+
    Thundurus-T UR -> A-
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    Mishimono likes this.
  14. Mishimono

    Mishimono

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    I think A is good for Kanga since it has really high usage and Fake Out is always useful and its still threatening especially after a Power-Up Punch. A for Tapu Fini also seems good since it is also really common, especially on Kang balance teams and it's probably the best and most splashable water-type. It can run a bunch of different sets like Choice Specs, Calm Mind and defensive with swagger which makes it easy to fit on teams and really threatening. I don't think Amoon should rise because its not very common and there are a lot of offensive threats that can deal with it easily and Spore getting stopped by Misty and Electric terrain is really bad. I think Sylveon is really bad this gen since generally a Tapu is just better on your team and steels are really common this gen. It also has a terrible speedtier which allows it to be KOd really easily. Mimikyu is a really solid Trick Room setter with Mental Herb or Focus Sash so I think it could rise, but not higher since its really weak and doesn't do much else. I used Rotom-W on a sun team and I didn't think it was too good. It loses to all the Tapus and is slower and frailer than other mons it faces competition for such Zapdos and Milotic. Its unique typing is still god for some teams, but I think B+ is better.
    Threw, GreenGogoatttt and Demantoid like this.
  15. WallaceTheChampion

    WallaceTheChampion

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    How can Garchomp be ranked C+ when he is the most used Pokémon after Tapu Lele, Landorus-T and Tapu Koko?
    Choice Scarf Garchomp can easily handle Tapu Koko, and every Garchomp set can handle Heatran and Arcanine. Also Garchomp's Held Item is pretty unpredictable because it can be a Z-move user or being Scarfed or it can even run Focus Sash! I know it is outclassed by Landorus-T but still.
    Also the Description from C+ says this:

    You can tell me a lot but that the the 4th most used Pokémon in the format is mediocre is a lie. Also Garchomp doesnt need much team support, and yes Garchomp is outclassed by Landorus-T but dropping him in C+ is a pretty bad decision. Nominating for A.
  16. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
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    I do want to point out that it seems that BS dubs stats have a bit of VGC stats mixed in there for whatever reason (people hopping on the wrong ladder?). Pokemon like Arcanine or Kartana have no business being that high in usage (Arcanine's top 10 teammates are literally all VGC17 legal lol). I think usage isn't too great of an argument for this ladder.
    Demantoid, DragonWhale and cant say like this.
  17. WallaceTheChampion

    WallaceTheChampion

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    But still, seeing Garchomp being ranked as high as Non-Mega Swampert and Gothitelle is pretty strange.
  18. DragonWhale

    DragonWhale It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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    Garchomp is outclassed completely by landorus-t and has no business being anywhere in A or B. It's only good in doubles formats where lando-t doesn't exist, like vgc14 and 17.
    TheMantyke and Demantoid like this.
  19. Jhon

    Jhon
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    Both Swampert and Gothitelle are good, this isn't calling Garchomp a bad pokemon in anyway.
    As others have mentioned it is outclassed by Landorus-T in most cases. It does, however, have a valuable Fire resistance and >100 speed which makes it worth considering in place of Landorus-T on some Charizard-Y weak teams. I've used Garchomp to good success for this reason before.
    C+ is fair.
    cant say and Demantoid like this.
  20. Steven Stone

    Steven Stone

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    Alright. I labbed quite a bit with Rotom-H, and now I'm ready to make my nomination.

    I nominate Rotom-H from B- to B+

    I know this may sound a bit radical, but offensive Rotom-H is an incredible Pokemon with a lot of potential, and has no business staying in B-, and these are the reasons.

    First of all, its an Electric-type, and Electric-type Pokemon are amazing in this format. As of now, it's also the only Electric-type Pokemon who can severely harm Ferrothorn, which also has its own merit, but that's not why Rotom-H is good.

    Thanks to the addition of Z-Moves, Rotom-H has gained access to a devastating Fire-type STAB that allows it to OHKO many relevant Pokemon in the metagame, while being speedy enough to outspeed big hitters like Tapu Bulu with little to no effort, without needing to lower its SpA. Rotom-H's typing and also allows it to sponge multiple hits from common threats in the metagame. Here's the amount of top tier mons it can consistently beat 1on1/ OHKO / wall / heavily damage:
    • Landorus-T
    • Aegislash
    • Mega Charizard Y
    • Heatran
    • Mega Salamence
    • Tapu Koko
    • Amoonguss
    • Celesteela
    • Thundurus-T
    • Zapdos
    • Tapu Bulu
    • Ferrothorn
    If you want to calculate, here's my Rotom-H set:

    Rotom-Heat @ Firium Z
    Ability: Levitate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 92 SpA / 4 SpD / 140 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Overheat
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Protect

    It should be noted that Hidden Power Ice won't OHKO Scarf Landorus-T, but Z-Overheat will. HP Ice must be used against Pokemon like Mega Salamence or Assault Vest Landorus-T, and it'll fail the OHKO as well, but none of these can easily beat Rotom-H 1v1 either. Water-type Pokemon can offer a challenge, but Rotom-H's Thunderbolt can match them for chip damage.

    Rotom-H, however, suffers from an awkward speed tier and lack of recovery, which sort of stops it from being higher up. Its neutral damage output can be underwhelming sometimes, specially against Pokemon that wall Fire-types moves and aren't weak to Rotom-H's other options, like Tyranitar or Heatran. A smart player can attempt to wall Rotom-H's Inferno Overdrive with a Protect then switch to something to wall the Overheat to shake off the pressure, but exerting this pressure can lead into a positional advantage that only extremely offensive combinations can offer, which can be useful for forcing certain threats out and damage them or straight up OHKO them. If Rotom-H also has speed advantage, then the opponent will have a hard time surviving.
  21. flarz

    flarz

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    Two Pokemon that I'd like to make a point to rise a tier are Araquanid and Kartana. Lots of CHALK based teams now are dropping Amoonguss, and Araquanid straight up murders Heatran and Landorus, as well as Kangaskhan with a well timed Hydro Vortex. Cresselia can't really touch it, and it can hit the increasingly popular Tapu Fini with Poison Jab for decent damage. It all gets Bug Bite as a unique utility for stealing berries off of Pokemon that commonly have FIWAM berries such as Snorlax or Cresselia. It also puts in WORK vs Sand cores and overall is just a menace to play against unless your opponent has significant TR checks

    Kartana is another one that hasn't seen much usage at the top level and I'm not sure why. Kartana hits the opposite of the speed spectrum, even outrunning Terrakion by a point. It's not splashable by any means, but it constantly pressures Tapu Fini and Tapu Lele, while also removing bulky waters i.e. Suicune and hits Kangaskhan, Heatran, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Excadrill, etc for >50% with Sacred Sword. The Z Move sets are almost like a guaranteed nuke that can allow Kartana to pick up an easy beast boost and snowball out of control if its partners can deal with the opponent's special attackers.

    I'd like to see Araquanid in B+
    and Kartana rising to B rank
    Martin890, Demantoid and Psynergy like this.
  22. ProjectTitan313

    ProjectTitan313

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    MegaGross is also relevent to obliterate without needing to cripple yourself. That thing adores Tapus. Also puts decent pressure on Tapu Fini, your spread 2HKOs 252/4 sets.
    Landog I've never been confident with however, Rock Slide and the not-so-rare AV sets just shit all over it. Landog cannot ignore Rotom-H, that is certain, but Rotom-H is in a really bad pickle if you don't outspeed.
    God damn it this makes me want to find the EZ bake and try this. I thrived on Expert Belt but this has me legitimately interested.
  23. Steven Stone

    Steven Stone

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    My spread was an odds management kind of spread. It minimizes the chances of a 252+ Landorus-T that outspeeds me beating Rotom-H 1v1 by a significant amount (252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Rotom-H: 70-84 (44.5 - 53.5%) -- 27.7% chance to 2HKO) while also allowing it to beat the slower variants 100% of the time. HP Ice will almost always 2HKO AV Landorus-T UNLESS they invest enough in bulk to the point where HP Ice has a chance to 2HKO, but that benefits me in terms of speed. Furthermore, I took into account Rock Slide's known nature of being COMPLETELY RNG dependant and even then, Rotom-H has the upper hand (This actually made me want to try Continental Crush Garchomp lol). So, my Rotom-H will most of the time perform at the adequate level against Landoge.
    (Besides, my team has like 4 different checks to it so fuck Landorus lol)
    ProjectTitan313 likes this.

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