1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Downhill with a Tail Wind (Anti-Metagame Tailwind team - wait, TAILWIND?!)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Adamant Zoroark, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,398
    I got bored. Decided I wanted to do some VGC 2013.

    Problem: I am completely new to VGC 2013.

    For a long time, VGC was a metagame I wanted to avoid for many reasons, such as the absence of Sleep and Evasion Clauses, as well as the presence of DrizzleSwim and Excadrill. However, I decided that I wanted to attend VGC 2014. I know VGC 2014 will be with Pokemon X and Y, but I may as well get used to what VGC is basically like right now by playing some VGC 2013, right?

    I decided to get a bit creative with this team. I wanted to use... Tailwind. Yes, Tailwind. Because... Well, why not? Also, because I was bored. However, this did nothing about my two most major beefs with VGC: DrizzleSwim and Excadrill. So I decided to fix that. Not with Abomasnow or some shit like that, but with something nobody would expect: Lickilicky.

    Yes, I know what you're thinking: What the fuck?

    So, Lickilicky actually has respectable bulk; 110/95/95 is nothing to sneeze at. It also doesn't have a complete and utter shit defensive typing like Abomasnow. Also, Abomasnow would damage every single one of my other members; ain't nobody got time for that!

    Lickilicky is really why this team is "anti-metagame;" It basically allows me to say, "Fuck weather," and... Well, weather is fucking everywhere.

    Anyway, took the team for a spin, and it's been working amazingly; so far it's gone undefeated. I'm surprised; this is my first VGC 2013 team and it's already doing well.

    So.... Here's the team:

    [​IMG]

    Salamence @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Heat Wave
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    As I was building a no-weather Tailwind team, Salamence seemed like a given to me. Intimidator, Tailwind user, Heat Wave user, and Draco Meteor user all-in-one! While in general there are better Intimidators like Landorus-T... Well, does Landorus-T learn Tailwind? No. Although Salamence's Draco Meteor pales in comparison to, say, Latios, it's still a fucking Draco Meteor. It's still hitting hard. Draco Meteor hits hard enough for me to not really feel the need for a Dragon Gem, so instead I use Yache Berry to be able to easily tank some non-STAB Ice attacks, such as Politoed's Ice Beam, Cresselia's Ice Beam, or HP Ice from whatever-the-fuck.

    [​IMG]

    Jellicent @ Water Gem
    Trait: Water Absorb
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Shadow Ball
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    Holy SHIT. I'm... Really surprised at how good this Jellicent is on a Tailwind team. With maximum Speed, it hits 112 Speed. That's not really good at all without Tailwind, and not slow enough for taking advantage of Trick Room. However, add Tailwind into the mix and you're hitting 224 Speed. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is getting up to that kind of Speed, without like a Choice Scarf or something, but no one uses that shit in VGC. Then, you add on the Water Gem + Water Spout combo. Hit both opposing Pokemon... Really fucking hard. That is, if you're at high enough HP. From there, Shadow Ball hits opposing Jellicent and Latios, Ice Beam covers Landorus-T and shit, and.... Okay, do I actually need to explain Protect at all?

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Occa Berry
    Trait: Technician
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Protect

    I got creative... And then decided to slap a Scizor on this team, which is the most non-creative thing anyone can do. Well... Let's just say I need something to FUCKING HIT CRESSELIA. In an early form of the team, I was using Zoroark to sorta get a hit on Cress while still hitting Ghost-types... Actually no it's because I try to use Zoroark whenever possible, but that's another discussion. Anyway, I soon realized that Zoroark is borderline useless in VGC, so I ditched it. Scizor, unlike Zoroark, can also take advantage of Tailwind, reaching 170 Speed in Tailwind. Okay, yeah I don't quite beat Thundurus and Latios, but Thundurus is at least getting severely crippled by a healthy Salamence with Yache Berry intact:

    252+ SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 270-318 (90.3 - 106.35%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Salamence: 180-212 (54.38 - 64.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    As for Latios, Latios is not beating Scizor anyway, even with HP Fire (given that Scizor is healthy and has an intact Occa Berry.)

    Scizor really helps me against Cresselia because Bug Bite allows me to 2HKO it - AND steal its Sitrus Berry. I don't need to explain Bullet Punch. Or Protect. And Superpower should be obvious enough (fuck Steel-types!)

    [​IMG]

    Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Wide Guard

    Hitmontop and Salamence kind of work as a team. Say... An Intimidate duo. Against pretty much any non-weather team, I lead with Hitmontop and Salamence to double Intimidate the opponent's Pokemon, making Physical attacks much easier to handle, possibly allowing Salamence to more easily set up Tailwind. Outside of the first turn, though, the duo has been helpful in sticky situations, where I can go from Salamence to Hitmontop on one turn to get off an extra Intimidate. Fake Out allows me to break Focus Sashes off of Pokemon who might have them, and Close Combat is the STAB of choice because... Well, I think I have enough priority (also, Hitmontop's Mach Punch is weak.) Sucker Punch is Hitmontop's best option against Ghost- and Psychic-types, while Wide Guard allows me to block moves like Rock Slide, which also makes Excadrill considerably easier to handle.

    [​IMG]

    Lickilicky @ Life Orb
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 204 HP / 52 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Power Whip
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    And... Here we are. We have arrived at Lickilicky. I use this thing basically any time my opponent has a weather team. Oh, you wanted to DrizzleSwim? Request denied. DroughtChlorophyll? Have fun.

    This specific set seems to work rather well for the team; despite Lickilicky's rather mediocre base 85 Attack, it can still hit reasonably hard thanks to STAB Return and Life Orb. Also, Power Whip and Earthquake hit the most common weather starters super effectively, with Politoed and Tyranitar not particularly enjoying Power Whip, while Ninetales fears Earthquake. Also, Lickilicky actually has respectable bulk; 110/95/95 is nothing to sneeze at.

    You are probably wondering what the fuck I'm doing with 52 Speed EVs. Well, those allow Lickilicky to hit 77 Speed, which allows it to outrun neutral-natured base 100s under Tailwind.

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Light Screen
    - Helping Hand

    Cresselia functions as my Helping Hand user, allowing my Pokemon to hit even harder. Since Cresselia is extremely bulky, it is able to do this frequently. Additionally, Pokemon like Thundurus, who could potentially be problematic otherwise, struggle to break Cresselia's Special bulk; this is further compounded if Light Screen is up. Speaking of Light Screen, it also helps against Rain teams for taking moves like Surf. My team doesn't really need Thunder Wave, so instead I run both Ice Beam and Psychic as attacks; Ice Beam to cover the likes of Dragonite, Garchomp, Thundurus, Landorus-T, or whatever, and Psychic to hit Toxicroak and Conkeldurr.

    ---------------

    Well, that's the team. I hope you liked this team, and any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Importable:

    Show Hide

    Salamence @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Heat Wave
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    Jellicent @ Water Gem
    Trait: Water Absorb
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Shadow Ball
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    Scizor @ Occa Berry
    Trait: Technician
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Protect

    Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Wide Guard

    Lickilicky @ Life Orb
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 204 HP / 52 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Power Whip
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Light Screen
    - Helping Hand
    scotti likes this.
  2. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,425
    Well, you've managed to make a team that literally has no answer to Trick Room - congrats? I'd suggest running Trick Room yourself over Light Screen on Cress so you aren't at a total loss against TR teams, and running Taunt > Shadow Ball on Jellicent could work too (full health Water Spout outdamages Shadow Ball against Cress and friends). This would leave you more open to opposing Jellicent, so I'd also try out Lum Berry > Life Orb on Lickilicky, so for the Jellicent that pack WoW or get lucky with Scald don't destroy you.
  3. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,398
    Trick Room didn't trouble me much at all in my runs with this team - I know, sounds tough to believe since it looks like a total loss against TR on paper (I'm well aware of this.) I'm really, REALLY unsure of running Trick Room on Cresselia since against non-Trick Room teams it's essentially a wasted move slot. If I'm going to run something to beat Trick Room, I want something that isn't a wasted move slot against everything else.
  4. Eyedol

    Eyedol the artist formerly known as xAtrocity

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    137

    A few things I noticed that may cause issues for your team:

    1) You are relying heavily on Salamence to set up a Tailwind
    • Your fastest pokemon is a Modest Salamence, which will allow other Tailwind teams to outspeed you in many cases
    • Teams of primarily fast pokemon could lead with two that are faster than Salamence and he doesn't survive to set up Tailwind. For example: Terrakion and Latios
    • To help you could add a focus sash to Salamence so opponents would need to double target him. It also might help to switch his nature to Timid to increase his chance of outspeeding.
    • Another option is to change Cresselia's Ice Beam for Icy Wind

    2) No answer for Trick Room
    • As noted by the previous poster, you don't have a real answer for Trick Room. A good Trick Room user would likely pose an obstacle for you
    • Switching a move for Trick Room could help, either on Cresselia or Jellicent
    • Jellicent could also stall with Recover, which could also help him to get another strong Water Spout
    • If you were interested in switching a pokemon you could add a Prankster with Taunt or Encore. Encore tends to catch Trick Room team off guard and can give you a large lead.

    3) Watch out for Rage Powder and Follow Me
    • Most of your Pokémon lack moves that can target both opponents, making you especially susceptible to Rage Power or Follow Me. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is a common lead that could give you real trouble if paired with a Rage Powder or Follow Me user.
    • Thunder Wave or a Choice Scarf user of your own that can attack multiple enemies might help. Many Rage Powder and Follow Me users are weak to rock, so you could switch Salamence's Protect for Rock slide on the chance you can get a flinch.

    In general my issues all revolve around the same theme. Your entire team is in the middle speed tiers and would give up extra turns to other teams that are at either end of the speed tiers or manipulate turn priority (through any means). The one Pokémon you have to deal with some of these threats, Salamence, will probably get no more than one chance to Tailwind.

    I hope this helps you somewhat, and good luck with your team. ^_^

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)